Plasmas?

[Clive]

Okay guys, many of us are anxious to get our front projectors and rear projection displays. It would seem that HT enthusiats are not talking about Plasmas as being an alternative video display. What are some of the factors surround this technology that intrigues or not intrigue you to purchase one. Maybe someone could also explain how and how long they work.




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[Andrew Pratt]

Every plasma I've ever seen look good but not great. The black levels still aren't very good and of course you pay a $$$$ for the size of screen you get.

Another reason they won't be on my radar anytime soon is that the one of the advantages they bring is that they're small in width...but that doesnt' help me at all since I still need to pull my speakers out away from the walls so having a TV flat against the wall and the speakers 5 feet out into the room makes for an interesting situation If you were using in wall speakers (or god forbit the TVs speakers) it could make for a very neat install though.

[David Meek]

Hi Clive,

Like Andrew said, the PQ on plasmas is very good, but not great yet. The black-level is the most consistent issue that keeps being raised in the reviews I read - I haven't gone into a dealer and directly played with the calibration on one yet. The less black level your set has, the less detail and differentiation you will be able to see in dark scenes. The plasmas do generally have a better black-level than the LCD-type screens, though. I'm not sure how the new LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicone) sets stack up yet in PQ and black-level. The other major problem I have with the plasmas is (again as Pr@ said) the price. Sure it's coming down, but my $5,000 58" Pioneer Elite RPTV still has a better PQ than any plasma (IMO), a killer black-level and is priced at 50-75% of a plasma's cost. YMMV based on your set.

Pr@, I kinda look at the depth issue differently having a shallower room than you. I have my Boston Acoustics mains out about 26-28" from the wall and having my RPTV cabinet between them absolutely killed my soundstage and imaging. Recessing the RPTV back flush with the wall (ala Plasma display) gave me a serious improvement in soundstaging and imaging.

Just tossing my 2 cents in.

Clive, it's good to see ya' posting again! How's things?




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[Kevin P]

Plasmas are intriguing but they just don't have the bang for the buck factor yet. They're still pricey for the screen size compared to RPTV and FPTV. The picture quality, while improving every year, still pales in comparison to a good CRT. Contrast ratio and black level are the two big weaknesses, though I'm sure in a few years these challenges will be overcome, and prices will come down.

As for life span, plasmas are supposedly comparable to CRT, with 20,000 plus hours expected, with a drop off in brightness over time. Plasmas can also suffer burn in from static images like a CRT, since they use the same phosphor material to produce the light.

The biggest appeal to plasmas right now are the Gee Whiz factor and the ability to place them in tight spots where a RPTV won't go, or even hang them on the wall.

Some day when the bottom falls out of the pricing we'll all have them I believe, unless another Big Thing comes along that blows plasma away.

KJP




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[Brandon B]

I'm not sure how the new LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicone) sets stack up yet in PQ and black-level

From the not-so-hot viewing conditions when I saw the Tosh LCOS set, it creamed all the plasmas they had (up to the $25K Pioneer elite) in PQ. Black level was ahrd to discern because of ambient light on the LCOS.

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

There'll have to be a big increase in PQ and a big reduction in price before I even consider plasma. I also read somewhere that they are even more sensitive to burn-in than crts.




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[Burke Strickland]

so having a TV flat against the wall and the speakers 5 feet out into the room makes for an interesting situation

Actually that can work quite well. My Maggie 3.6s are a little over 5 feet from the front wall and the projection screen is flat against it. Since the speakers are finished in black and the front wall is matte black, the speakers "disappear" visually. Fortunately, the Cardas formula puts them in a position where they do NOT block the screen from any of the chairs.

Burke

PS -- regarding plasma, it boils down to price and performance. When their video image looks as good or better than the competition and when they are priced to match, then their convenience and coolness will be nice tie-breakers. As it is, a very nice front projector and screen can be about as unobtrusive and much more affordable. (Of course you can break the bank with a projector, too -- you just don't HAVE to.)

[Lex]

I'm waiting for virtual TV before I jump on plasma. You just look up where you want it to be, and whala, it's there!

Plasma have definitely improved, but at the 16-20k mark for any size at all, and quality, forget that, I'll take a good RPTV for less,or get a killer FP if I had the room for it.

If I pay 20K for one, it better last more than 1000 hours per 1000 bucks spent.

Lex




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[dsmith]

Actually plasma prices are falling pretty fast. You can get a high quality Panasonic 50" HDTV plasma for about $7,500, and their 42" ED model for under $4,000 some places. Some industry followers say plasma will continue to fall in price and replace CRTs in a couple of years. Expect image quality to continue to improve also. Meanwhile, Sony has announced a new LCD technology that sounds promising. Here's the link:

http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0203/27.sony.shtml

I think the LCoS technology, and maybe the new Sony, which will really be cheaper to produce in quantity, will take over big screens in pretty short order. For sure CRT is due to die a quick death very soon.

Don

[dsmith]

An article in a recent mag (Perfect Vision I think but not sure) commented on the hidden cost of Plasma, namely the mandatory add-on cost of delivery at many stores. Sure enough I asked at Sears and their mandatory delivery charge is $500!
Plasmas are rather delicate compared to other displays, and should be kept upright at all times to avoid cracking the glass. Even so, $500 to bring it to your front door is ridiculous. Keep that in mind when shopping for Plasma.

Don

[Lex]

I looked at a couple of Plasmas at Best Buy today. I'll have to say, the 42" Samsung at 4000 had a better picture than the 10,900 Pioneer. Faith Hill was on there, pretty easy on the eyes on either set.

When I said 16K up, I meant for the large scale sizes. To me, 50 inch is to small, when I am used to a 60" RPTV. Granted, my actual viewing area on a 4:3 is less than 60". But still, not sure if 50" is big enough, 42 definitely not, unless I downsized my room.

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[Bob Santos]

Alot of what has been said above is very true.
I have spent alot of time researching plasma's the past few months. I viewed alot of different panels in the process.
Yes most plasma's suffer in the black level department. There are some panels that do pretty darn well in the that department as well.
The best thing you can do if you are interested in plasma's is get out and view them. If at all possible see if you can get your hands on the remote, and tweak the picture. Almost every panel I have seen on display is pretty poorly setup.

As for the price... They are dropping. There are a few plasma's out that have broke the $3000.00 barrier. Granted they arent the best of panels, but they hopefully will drive the competition a bit.

The panels that are considered the better of the pack are.
Pioneer elite- nice panel...very detailed, great color..blacks were a little to grey for my tastes, but not horrible.
Panasonic.. The best black level's I have seen in a plasma.
the rest of the picture is very nice as well.
Fujitsu- Some models use panasonic glass, and seem to share the better black level performance as the Panny's.

There are alot of different factors in plasma technology.
The first thing I learned was that display resolution is not as important as you may think.
Actually some higher res. screens have poorer performance than some standard definition panels.
For example.. Alot of screens use 1024x1024 ALIS glass. Although not bad for displaying HD signals, they are pretty aweful when fed a standard def signal.
Currently one of the highest regarded plasma's on the market is the 852x480 standard definition Panasonic 42"
Thats the one I ended up buying. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the standard Def, and High Def one after I got farther than about 7 feet away from the screens. Closer than that, and you start to see the pixel structure on the SD panel...refered to as "screen door effect".

All that said... My plasma has done nothing but put a huge smile on my face. It is IMHO the best picture I have had in my house to date. My Toshiba 65hx81, is actually depressing to watch after time spent viewing the plasma. The picture on the plasma is sharper, more 3 dimentional, the colors much more vibrant, and on the Panasonic the blacks are right there.
Now if was only 20" bigger I would move it into my main HT room.

[Clive]

Congratulation on your purchase Bob, this must be extremely exciting for you. Actually I was reading today in a HT mag. some reviews of several plasmas and they came to the same conclusion with the Panasonic panel. What was amazing is that these conclusions were reached without the units been tweeked. Hope for long life.




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[dsmith]

Bob, does your Panasonic have a DVI or firewire input? I would seriously consider it myself if and when it has a digitgal input. Also, where did you buy and was there a mandatory add-on fee for delivery or setup?

Don

[Clive]

Here are some specs on that panel.

http://www.panasonic.ca/English/audiovideo/plasma/th42pwd5uy.asp

CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?

[Glauco BruZZi]

Don,

DVI is available only on the TY-42TM4D DVI terminal Board you can buy separately. But... It's not HDCP compatible and you'll lose the component input. Panasonic will release new Consumer's Plasma Displays with built-in NTSC tuner, speakers and DVI/HDCP.

Here's the link: http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...12&cont_id=360

[Glauco BruZZi]

Here's the brochure for the TH-42PWD5UY showing the TY-42TM4D card at the bottom.

[Bob Santos]

Clive,
I read that review as well. Yes, the reviewers werent able to calibrate the panels. I guess it was a review of chance, as they were invited to view the panels that a company had set up to show a customer. A fun article because they had so many panels in it, but ofcoarse they couldn't go to in depth about the features, and performance of each panel. A great article to get your feet wet though.
The TH-42PWD5UY is the industrial version. I bought the consumer version. Model TH-42PW5UZ. Also known as PT 42PD3-P.
It includes a table top stand (which I didnt use).
The two panels are basically the same with a few minor differences. The Consumer version has RCA connectors, where the Industrial has BNC. The Consumer has a 1 year in home warranty, Where the industrial has a 1 year you need to send it out warranty. The Industrial can accept the DVI board. The consumer version doesn't. As Glauco stated the DVI board doesn't support HDCP.
Also right now if you purchase the one of the Consumer Plasma's panasonic will send you a free HTDV OTA tuner.

[Clive]

Bob you are correct. I was invited to the Panasonic Retailers show here in Canada just last night and I saw them in the flesh. The one thing is that there are some offers and Model Numbers that were different. I was told that the TH-42pwd5 will also be available with RCA connectors in future. The Black levels on the TH-42PHD-5 looked much better than the PWD-5. However, the "screen door effect" was almost non existent on both. Their new AI techology has done a great deal for them, a step in the right direction.




CLIVE




HEY!! Why buy movie tickets when you can own a Theater?