Result Differences in VE and AVIA?

[David Meek]

I've been using Video Essentials for about 3 years (I think) with great results on audio and video. I recently purchased the AVIA DVD and adjusted my RPTV with it last night. When I was finished, the picture had a very noticable red tint, especially with facial tones. I went back and re-adjusted it a second time with AVIA with the same results. Using the red tint strip, I'm showing a red push between 10-20%. The AVIA dialog says that anything below 20% is considered "acceptable". Not so. In fact I've manually adjusted the hue and tint back to a more natural look. Tonight, I'm going to go back with my VE disc and set things back.

Has anyone else experienced differences between the two calibration discs in the "adjusted" settings on your displays or am I doing something wrong?




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[David Meek]

Anyone? :?




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[JonMarsh]

Hi David,

I've generally found the multiple filter approach of AVIA to be capable of the best overall evaluation with the SMPTE color bars, and permits good correction of performance.

However, what you're probably running into is the problem with the color decoders in most RPTV. Virtually all are setup from the factory to work with a strong blue bias in the color temperature, and as a result have a moderate red push to compensate, so everyone doesn't look "greenish" with conventional program sources.

In practice that means the color decoder would have to be adjusted in the factory/service menu, as well as adjusting bias and gain for each tube with a component source to get a clean grayscale. Most consumers don't have access to those controls, so I think that accounts for the "reasoning" behind the comments about 20% push being acceptable. :roll:

Also, there's possibly a psychological factor at work; if you're used to seeing a bluish picture, D6500 will look too red until you've spent a little time with it.

This, as much as anything else, is one reason I'm not a fan of many RPTV's, because they do take so much work out of the box to fix the things that are deliberately engineered into them to be "wrong". I have a Toshiba RPTV in my daughter's room that looks pretty good, now, but it took some time with the factory service manual to get it that way.

Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Markj]

John I understand what you are saying but I would assume that using either VE or AVIA should produce the same result no matter about the wrong setting of the RPTV.

[JonMarsh]

VE only includes a blue filter to use for checking the color setting; when viewing the SMPTE bars, and when color should be adjusted so that they appear to have the same brightness through the filter.

AVIA includes all three primary color filters, and all colors can be checked. The actual test pattern on the disk (the SMPTE color bar pattern) is the same.


Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[George Bellefontaine]

Jon's explanation of the color decoder problem is correct. Faces on my Sony lcd projector looked like they were sunburned when I first got the projector. When i tried to compensate for this in the white balance settings, I ended up with faces that were too green. But by playing around in the service mode(after marking down all original settings) I was able to make adjustments to the color decoder perimeters and now my skin tones are very natural. After doing this, though, I had to make new adjustments in the white balance settings to get my greyscale to look correct, which is difficult when you don't have the proper instruments to use. But I have good fleshtones and a good black and white picture with greys that look grey, so I am happy. But VE was only useful in helping me get a good greyscale.




My Homepage!

[David Meek]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have to admit to being a bit bummed that as expensive a set as the Elite is and as highly as it's touted, it has this red push issue. Oh well, spilt milk. . . . I'm not at the point I want to gamble in the service menus, so I'll just live with my old Mk1 eye-ball modifications to the AVIA settings.

After a little more time on the guns (I'm only at about 170 hours) though, I'll spring for an ISF calibration and that way, make sure it's done right.




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker