Lexicon vs Outlaw 950

[gil]

How does the Lex DC/MC really compare to the 950? I read some of the beta reviews with the positive comparisons, but honestly I get lost in some of those long HTF threads.

Can someone explain the history and differences between the DC-1, DC-2, and MC-1. Is the DC-2 the same hardware as the MC-2 and the DC-1 a different animal?

I am wondering if I should consider a used Lex over a 950. I guess I lose Analog and some of the newer formats like DPL-II and DTS-ES with the Lex that I now have with a Denon 3802 and would still have if I went with the Outlaw.

Also, how good is the Lex on 2-channel feeding it PCM thru it's digital inputs. I have a Sony C555es CD/SACD changer that's supposed to be pretty good on redbook CD. Is the Lex better or worse?

[Andrew Pratt]

gil I'm sure doug will step in here but as far as I know the DC1 and DC2 are very similar with the DC2 offering more digital inputs and newer DAC's. The MC1 is a much newer design with updated DAC's and a multitude of inputs etc. The software on all lexicons can be upgraded to get you the 6.1 formats and all have logic 7 which is as good if not better then Pro Logic II. The thing with the lexicon's is that non of the models we're talking about here offer analog bypass modes so your SACD player will not be running up to its full potential. Also almost everyone agrees the DC1, DC2 and MC1 aren't known to have the most musical DAC's so running a digital input into them might not be your best bet either. What they do do right though is movies. From all accounts logic 7 is amazing and worth the price of admission...if music is a priority though I'd keep looking. Given the Outlaw is due out anyday now I'd be inclined to wait for it. Of course you can have your cake and eat it too if you bought a lexicon and the Sony TA-P9000ES analog pre amp. The TA-P unit sells for $400 and is a stereophile class A component that will give you two analog 5.1 inputs as well as a volume control on those inputs plus its intended to integrate with HT processors.

So basically what I'd suggest is that for a one box solution I'd wait for the outlaw or the rotel 1066, else if you can use two box's the lexicon with version 4.0 firmware and the Sony TA-P9000ES might be a good option as well.

[Lex]

Nice post Andrew, and mostly I agree with what you said. I don't think you gave the MC-1 quite the credit deserved on it's capabilities with music. It's not that bad. It has fine DACs built in. Yes, it can be bettered with a nice quality analog pre-amp, like my Classe' CP-35, and my Rega Jupiter and DACs. But it's head and shoulders above the DC-1/DC-2 family fpr ALL reproduction, music and movies.

The MC-1 features broadcast quality video, and a menu system (like the DC series), that is second to none. Flexibility, flexibily, flexibility is what Lexicon builds into their products. Simply, I feel that for home theater, it's very difficult to best them in this area.

As to the Outlaw, at what 6 7 times less money than the MC-1, will it be a serious contender? I think the jury is still out on that. the only review I saw was amatuer at best, and hardly convnced me that it's all it's being billed as.

Regardless as to audio quality, the odds of the menu system, and user control being on par with Lexicon, may be almost laughable. I call it like I see it, and I have a lot of convncing needed to be an Outlaw believer. Good value for the dollar spent? Absolutely. But competitive with pre-pros costing 6,7,8 times more with years of research and past history? I seriously doubt it-

I may believe otherwise in the end, but as of right now, I can't say I am convinced.

Lex

[Andrew Pratt]

Doug I agree with you to a point about outlaw but here's a question which would you pick an MC1 for $3k or an outlaw for HT $1K and spend $2500K on a kick butt CD player and $400 on some nice pre amp like the Sony TA-P9000ES (Stereophile class A component) ? IMO the second route would be damn hard to pass up...nice processor for HT and likely a much superior DAC in the CD player mated to a passive pre like the Sony. Given the Sony's intended to sit in between a HT pre amp and the power amp it shouldn't add much if any complexity to the system but it will allow you to take advantage of things like SACD and DVD-A that require analog by pass modes that even the MC1 lack if I'm not mistaken.

Basically IMO it boils down to usage...if an analog bypass is a high priority feature then skip the lexicons...if you're looking for a HT prosessor doug's right Lexicon's are the benchmark by which others are judged.

[MRWILLL]

FWIW, all Lexicon pre-pro's are on the same level when it comes down to Logic7, movies or multi-ch music.




STOP!!...LOOK!!...LISTEN!!
DVD...Hear it from the people who
mixed and mastered it "LEXICON".

[Bruce]

According to Buzz, in charge of the products when Lex DC2 and MC1 were introduced, the audio boards (guts) of these two units are identical.

I take this to mean that they sound the same, and he actually said just that. The MC1 was designed to provide more features (video switching as an example) and a much nicer enclosure, etc.

Just passing on what I heard from the source.




Bruce
____________________________________________

[Lex]

Bruce, that's not completely true. It is possible that the motherboards were the same. But I can say undisputably than the DACs used in the MC-1 were proprietary, and not used in the DC-2. That gave the MC-1 a sonic edge over the DC-2, fact.

Andrew, it's a question I can't really answer, because I have not seen or heard the Outlaw. But in general, I can tell you that I appreciate not only high end features, but also the overall product quality built into higher end products like my AMP-5 and HPA-2 amps, the Lexicon MC-1, my Elite RPTV, Sonus faber, Rega Jupiter, etc... Sure, compatabile products can be purchased in every category I mentioned for much less money. But the personal satisfaction derived from such products to me generally is not in the same class. No, I can't always afford the best, nor do I always feel it is important to own the best. But many times I have made high end decisions, and no regrets or buyers remorse.

I can just about tell you now, that if I could sell my MC-1 for 3K now, buy an Outlaw for 1K and put 2K in something else, or in my pocket, I likely would not do it.

Lex

[Bruce]

Lex,

I don't mean to disagree with you, but just FYI from a person who should have the inside story.

By the way, I just want to thank you for all the knowledge sharing produced by this forum, I respect highly what you are doing here.

While I can't speak from first hand knowledge in my listening room regarding Lexicon products, here are a couple quotes from Buzz Goddard, former VP at Lexicon during the release of DC-2 and MC-1;

Be careful with whatever those reading sources are.
The DC-2 and the MC-1 sound identical.

Your observation about the sound difference should be instructive in the difficulties of objective auditioning.
The DC-2 and MC-1 share audio sections. The differences you heard are in between your ears.
It is very difficult to objectively analyze products like this.

Bruce
____________________________________________

[SiliGoose]

Your observation about the sound difference should be instructive in the difficulties of objective auditioning.
The DC-2 and MC-1 share audio sections. The differences you heard are in between your ears.
It is very difficult to objectively analyze products like this.

Oh, wow. I'd like this guy.
I may make that quote my signature.




-Sili

[SiliGoose]

:LOL: It's in the sig.
Thanks for the handy quote which I'll now use for everything.




-Sili

[gil]

Sili,

You forgot the best part...

The differences you heard are in between your ears.

[Ricky]

Hi Guys,

It's been a long time for me (here)

btw, John Morris/Merc still stands by what he heard (or thought he heard)....that the MC1 has less grain than the DC2 ?!

[SiliGoose]

Hey Ricky! I'm seeing you everywhere recently.

I saw your debate with him about that. I sometimes think he's two different people. Bizzare, isn't it?
And they clain not to have an agenda at that 'other place'. Whatever.




-Sili

[SiliGoose]

I guess I did forget that important part of the quote. Oh well.

I just saw a post by Buzz Goddard at another forum. Geez...he's like a real person. I'm now almost embarrased to use one of his quotes as my sig.




-Sili

[SamS]

I like Andrew's idea and kinda have a similar set-up. I picked up a used DC-1 V4 for a little more than a new Outlaw 950. Add a TAP9000ES for $450, and now I have great processing for movies (especially 2.0 Logic 7) and an analog section that equals or betters the 950 while taking 2 sets of 5.1 inputs.

For the first time in a long while, I can actually say I'm satisfied with movie performance at my house. The DC-1 is so tweakable, you can get every aspect of DVD playback "right". My only limitation is no room for rears, so tower sides provide the surrounds. I can only imagine what full-blown Logic 7 would do!