Hdmi 1.3

[sailcappy]

I am looking into getting my first HT system. Has anyone had experience using stricly using HDMI 1.3(a or b) coming direcly from a HDDVD or BR disk over the HDMI Cable? How is the sound? I am looking at purchasing the Halcro SSP100 as my Pre-Pro as it seems to be one of the few that supports LPCM. B&K will not support until the spring and Krell will have an upgrade avail in early Q1 to the S100. I am aware of the Integra but want something more high end to support better 2 chan audio playback. Appreciate any feedback.

[Kal Rubinson]

I have but only with the Integra so the fact that I found them excellent may not mean much to you.

Kal

[Chris D]

Yup... I'm using HDMI 1.3 from a PS3 and A35 through a Denon 3808 receiver (used as a decoder for my HT pre/pro) to a Panasonic PT-AE 2000 front projector.

Sound is unbelievable. I re-watched Transformers last night, and this was the first time on the theater setup. Amazing.

[Pez]

Yup... I'm using HDMI 1.3 from a PS3 and A35 through a Denon 3808 receiver (used as a decoder for my HT pre/pro) to a Panasonic PT-AE 2000 front projector.

Sound is unbelievable. I re-watched Transformers last night, and this was the first time on the theater setup. Amazing.

Hey Chris - does that mean you have the multi-channel outs from the 3808 going to the A35 multi-channel inputs? Are you doing this for next gen audio only or are you using the 3808 for other things as well? Just curious as I am trying to figure out what to do so I can get next gen audio from both my HD-DVD player and PS3.

[Chris D]

What I chose to do is buy a receiver that has HDMI 1.3, as well as analog inputs AND outputs. So I have both Blu-Ray (PS3) and HD-DVD (HD-A35) outputting video AND native high bitrate audio over HDMI 1.3 to the Denon 3808 receiver. No analog connections there, just digital HDMI 1.3. The receiver acts as a decoder, so it outputs the decoded signal over analog 7.1 multichannel cables to my HT pre/pro, which consolidates all my audio and video connections to go to the amplifiers. Once I find a new HDMI 1.3 pre/pro that I like, I'll be replacing both my current pre/pro and the Denon 3808.

To make it just a bit more complicated, I said that I bought the 3808 because it has multichannel inputs AND outputs. I also connect my SACD/DVD-A universal player to the 3808 using analog connections. This way I'm also using the 3808 as a multichannel switcher of sorts, since my pre/pro (like most) does not have multiple sets of 7.1 inputs.

Make sense?

[Jack Gilvey]

So I have both Blu-Ray (PS3) and HD-DVD (HD-A35) outputting video AND native high bitrate audio over HDMI 1.3 to the Denon 3808 receiver. No analog connections there, just digital HDMI 1.3. The receiver acts as a decoder...

Unless there was a bitstream PS3 update I haven't heard about, your Blu-Ray audio (at least the advanced codecs) is actually being decoded in the PS3 and sent as LPCM to the receiver, no? You're getting unbelievable sound either way, obviously, just curious what your AVR displays for BD audio.

[PewterTA]

PS3 has always been able to send bitsream out, not just decoded into LPCM. It can even send DTS-MA out as a bitstream, but it can't decode DTS-MA into LPCM and send it across HDMI (yet)...

[Jack Gilvey]

PS3 has always been able to send bitsream out, not just decoded into LPCM. It can even send DTS-MA out as a bitstream, but it can't decode DTS-MA into LPCM and send it across HDMI (yet)...

MA...really? Are you sure it's not just the DTS-HD 1.5Mbps core it sends as bitstream?

[littlesaint]

PS3 has always been able to send bitsream out, not just decoded into LPCM. It can even send DTS-MA out as a bitstream, but it can't decode DTS-MA into LPCM and send it across HDMI (yet)...

The PS3 does not send unencoded HD audio (yet), only decoded LPCM or raw LPCM. If you set it to bitstream using TrueHD or DTS-HD you will get transcoded DD or DTS Core.

[sailcappy]

If i buy the Halcro or any pre/pro that supports HDMI 1.3, the original question, does the audio over HDMI 1.3 sound as clean or do you still need to combine a combination of HDMI and analogue outputs from Blue ray or HDDVD? Is this truley a one cable solution in anyone's experience?

[littlesaint]

If i buy the Halcro or any pre/pro that supports HDMI 1.3, the original question, does the audio over HDMI 1.3 sound as clean or do you still need to combine a combination of HDMI and analogue outputs from Blue ray or HDDVD? Is this truley a one cable solution in anyone's experience?

I use HDMI for HD-DVD and SACD/DVD-A. The audio is certainly no worse than using the analog outs, and absolutely much easier to manage.

[Pez]

What I chose to do is buy a receiver that has HDMI 1.3, as well as analog inputs AND outputs. So I have both Blu-Ray (PS3) and HD-DVD (HD-A35) outputting video AND native high bitrate audio over HDMI 1.3 to the Denon 3808 receiver. No analog connections there, just digital HDMI 1.3. The receiver acts as a decoder, so it outputs the decoded signal over analog 7.1 multichannel cables to my HT pre/pro, which consolidates all my audio and video connections to go to the amplifiers. Once I find a new HDMI 1.3 pre/pro that I like, I'll be replacing both my current pre/pro and the Denon 3808.

To make it just a bit more complicated, I said that I bought the 3808 because it has multichannel inputs AND outputs. I also connect my SACD/DVD-A universal player to the 3808 using analog connections. This way I'm also using the 3808 as a multichannel switcher of sorts, since my pre/pro (like most) does not have multiple sets of 7.1 inputs.

Make sense?

I am an idiot. Yes, it makes lots of sense. For some reason when you mentioned the A35 I automatically assumed the Parasound Halo pre/pro. Have no idea why I assumed that as I dont even know Parasound model numbers.

[Chris D]

No worries!

If i buy the Halcro or any pre/pro that supports HDMI 1.3, the original question, does the audio over HDMI 1.3 sound as clean or do you still need to combine a combination of HDMI and analogue outputs from Blue ray or HDDVD? Is this truley a one cable solution in anyone's experience?

YES, you can use HDMI 1.3 for your audio connections (if you have the equipment that supports it) without having to make ANY other audio connections. This is what I'm using for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. And yes, it does make a noticeable difference to keep everything digital. Very clean.

[Chris D]

I use HDMI for HD-DVD and SACD/DVD-A. The audio is certainly no worse than using the analog outs, and absolutely much easier to manage.

Really? What have you found that outputs DVD-A over HDMI? Some of the Blu-Ray players also do SACD, but I'm not familiar with a DVD-A solution.

[Chris D]

The PS3 does not send unencoded HD audio (yet), only decoded LPCM or raw LPCM. If you set it to bitstream using TrueHD or DTS-HD you will get transcoded DD or DTS Core.

Son of a !@#$%!#$!!!!!! I could have SWORN that the PS3 does HBR over HDMI, so I went down to my theater to prove you a liar. First thing I popped in was "Legends of Jazz", and selected the Dolby TrueHD track. (I have the HDMI audio output set to "bitstream" under the PS3 settings) Music sounded great. I did the pop-up display on the PS3, and it said it was playing Dolby Digital. :wtf: I went and made sure Dolby TrueHD was selected. Went to my receiver, and it said it was receiving Dolby Digital. Now this is interesting... I accidentally hit the fast forward button, and it went to 1.5x speed, which still plays the audio but does it faster. Suddenly it showed Dolby TrueHD on the PS3 pop-up display... but receiver still showed receiving Dolby Digital.

Maybe just the disc... popped in Spiderman 3, selected Dolby TrueHD. Same thing. Why did I not notice this before? Maybe it's just because I was doing critical evaluations with discs that had Uncompressed LPCM (lossless) like Cars and Ratatouille--those are transmitted as LPCM regardless.

So I went back and changed the HDMI audio output setting from "bitstream" back to "PCM". Ah... much better. Dolby TrueHD tracks do say Dolby TrueHD on the PS3 pop-up menu, and the sound is richer and fuller. Receiver does show receiving PCM digitally. Only downside other than the conversion to PCM (if you could call it a downside... not really) is that now I think ALL of the audio output will be converted, even basic Dolby Digital and DTS instead of staying native to the receiver.

Just wish the PS3 could bitstream native HD audio like I thought it could. Ah, well... perhaps in an update in the future?

[Jack Gilvey]

What have you found that outputs DVD-A over HDMI?

The Oppos do, for one. He's not referring to a HDM player.

Son of a !@#$%!#$!!!!!! I could have SWORN that the PS3 does HBR over HDMI

Nope, not yet...that's why I pointed it out.

Only downside other than the conversion to PCM (if you could call it a downside... not really) is that now I think ALL of the audio output will be converted, even basic Dolby Digital and DTS instead of staying native to the receiver.

Not a downside, I'd agree, or truly a "conversion"...TrueHD is zipped PCM, after all, and not something you could listen to in a "native form" anyway (any more than you could read a zipped file). It either gets decoded to PCM in the player or receiver, that determines which lights you get on the AVR. You could switch settings for legacy DD/DTS tracks, but I don't think I'd bother.

[littlesaint]

There's really no reason the PS3 shouldn't be able to do bitstream, so it should be coming. I'm not a big fan of bitstream on the HD-DVD side since I like to utilize a lot of the advanced authored material which is crippled when using bitstream output. For Blu-ray this has been less of an issue as secondary audio support is just starting to appear, and there are no internal DTS-HD MA decoders yet which is a popular format for BD. Having options is never a bad thing though.

I have a Panny S97 which will do DVD-A over HDMI, and an Oppo which does DVD-A and SACD over HDMI.

[sailcappy]

Follow up:
Basically the player just becomes a digital transport and audio processing happens at the pre/pro level. If the signal is strictly HDMI on a BR player does the type of player matter for audio high fidelity?

[Jack Gilvey]

Follow up:
Basically the player just becomes a digital transport and audio processing happens at the pre/pro level.

Yes. Regardless of where the signal gets decoded to PCM (and it has to happen somewhere), processing, D/A conversion, bass-management, etc. all happen in the pre-pro/AVR.

If the signal is strictly HDMI on a BR player does the type of player matter for audio high fidelity?

Probably not.

[littlesaint]

Follow up:
Basically the player just becomes a digital transport and audio processing happens at the pre/pro level. If the signal is strictly HDMI on a BR player does the type of player matter for audio high fidelity?

Pioneer and Denon would have you think so. :B

[sailcappy]

I ask because I have noticed that Audiophiles use a separate digital transport for CD playback. I’m guessing that with HDMI 1.3 this would not make a difference?

[xtrips]

Do I need to change my Pre/Pro?

Hello,

I am an audiophile and a HT geek. So I have 2 separate systems connected for the HT purpose. Which means that my pre/pro outputs the pre-out for the main speakers and feed them to the stereo pre of the second system.
My pre/pro is a TagMcLaren AV32 with the bypass option installed. That means that I can feed a high-quality 5.1 analog sound.
Today I am tempted to make the jump to experience the new sound formats but I am wondering if I shouldn't wait a bit.
Should I go for a HDMI 1.3a only pre and wait for the leading brands to issue one or can I go for, say, an Anthem D2 equipped with HDMI 1.1, relying on the player to issue LPCM?
Or maybe just stay with my Tag pre because these new sound formats are not so revolutionary? (for this one I'd need a first hand experience from someone)

Thank you

[Jack Gilvey]

If you like your pre and just want to try the new movie codecs, maybe a player with MC analog outs would work?

[Chris D]

I personally decided to get a HDMI 1.3 receiver, to use as an outboard 1.3 HD audio decoder, sent to my pre/pro via multichannels. It's a stop-gap method until we see some high-end HDMI 1.3 pre/pro's. Works great, sounds great. I would recommend it highly... biggest downside (and it's not insignificant) is the cost of the receiver. Otherwise, you're buying a whole 'nother pre/pro at big $$$, waiting for another one in 1.3. That's a lot of money to spend in an upgrade path.