Speakers a little too bright sounding

[subynube]

I have built a set of stand mounted Nat P's. They are powered by an Emotiva amp, Emotova processor, and Denon cd/DVD player. I also have a DIY dayton reference sub for those interested.
I feel they are fatiguing and and forward sounding at approximately 5-8khz range. That range seems a little brighter or louder than all other frequencies. I am not sure if this is due to the dynamics of the set up, or if these speakers are typically bright.
The speakers are set up about 5 feet apart, about 2 feet from the wall, and about 6-7 feet from the listeners ear. The tweeters are directly at ear listening level, and this may be a problem but not sure. Also, my living room is an odd shape, with all hard wood floors (quite a reflective environment). The room is probably 12 feet by 12 feet, but is also open to the kitchen and bedroom without doors. It is a totally open floor plan.

What do you guys suggest I can do to minimize the 5-8 khz freq. region to quiet it a bit? Mount the speakers with tweeters somewhat off axis; get an area rug? Or is there any consensus that these speakers typically bright?

Thanks for all the help. :T

[Xander]

What amount of BSC is incorporated into your crossover design? It may be too low

[subynube]

The BSC designed in the XO is from here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969

This is a well respected design that was put together by a member of this forum. I doubt BSC is the issue, but it may be. Any comments on BSC on this design?

[Hdale85]

Sounds like you might have a very bright room to me. A lot of reflection. You might want to get a nice big thick area rug for that area also might want to look into some room treatments.

[Xander]

The BSC designed in the XO is from here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969

This is a well respected design that was put together by a member of this forum. I doubt BSC is the issue, but it may be. Any comments on BSC on this design?

Just because a crossover is well designed doesn't mean it is designed for your application. The distance that your speakers are from surrounding walls or other boundaries dictates the level of BSC that is suitable for your speakers. If the crossover was designed with a low level BSC, or none at all, then the speakers are supposed to be used against a wall or in a TV stand.

But it is probably mostly room reflections...try the rug that was suggested. Wood floors are terrible for reflections.

[Hdale85]

I believe Jon designs his for placement about 2 feet from the wall so I'm pretty sure he's good there.

[Xander]

I believe Jon designs his for placement about 2 feet from the wall so I'm pretty sure he's good there.

Okay, good deal. I was just making suggestions.

[subynube]

Thanks for the input guys. Im not worried about the BSC. However, I am worried about the reflective environment. I guess the 2 best things I can do is get the tweeters off axis and get a big area rug. Other than that, does any one else percieve the NAT P speakers as "bright" or "forward", or is it just my listening environment? Thanks again.

J

[wkhanna]

My Nat’s have the RS tweeters. They don’t seem too bright to me. Clear and crisp, with no sibilance.

Your placement sounds like it is about right for your room. You can try experimenting with different locations and possibly toe, to see it helps.

I think the problem may be your room. I might suggest a large area rug. If you can’t get one big enough for entire room, place it near the speakers. Then while sitting in listening spot, have someone hold a mirror against the side walls. The locations where you can see your tweeters are the first reflection points. This is where you want to add some type of room treatment to the walls.

Keep us posted on your results, I am sure we can help you get the most out these wonderful speakers.

[subynube]

Thanks wkhanna. My Nats have the RS tweeters as well. I also think they are clear and crisp, no sibilance. Just a little forward sounding at approximately 5-8khz (my best guesstimate)
My next project then will be get an area rug, and mount the speakers off axis somewhat. It will be a while before I do it, as I am broke. It is ski season up here in Vermont, and there goes my budget 8O
Ill keep you guys posted when I get a nice area rug. Thanks again. :T

[aud19]

I also vote for room treatments/area rug/cushy furniture etc. Sounds to me like the room's the problem.

[wkhanna]

It is ski season up here in Vermont, and there goes my budget 8O

Well by all means enjoy the white powder!
Here is some reading for you in the meantime:

Two sources for DIY & some good info from Ethan

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

http://www.readyacoustics.com/

http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

PS. When you get a rug, get carpet padding to put under it, too.
__________________

[Hdale85]

Bill your first link there doesn't seem to be working for me.

[wkhanna]

Opps!!!!

It's fixed, Thanks, Dougie!

[Azeke]

I concur with Jason, you should try to tame your room.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[subynube]

I just remembered one thing. There is no acousta stuff poly fiber fill in the cabinets. However, they are well dampened with multi layer material all along the inside walls of the cabinets. Will the poly fill make a difference?

[tpremo55]

I just remembered one thing. There is no acousta stuff poly fiber fill in the cabinets. However, they are well dampened with multi layer material all along the inside walls of the cabinets. Will the poly fill make a difference?

What is the "multi-layer material" that you lined the inside of the speakers with?

[subynube]

What is the "multi-layer material" that you lined the inside of the speakers with?

I lined it with "sonic barrier" from parts express.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-535

[wkhanna]

The frequency range you said you were having trouble with was in 5Kz - 8KHz range. I believe this above the xo point of around 4KHz. This would indicate that the tweeter is the likely source of the problem. The tweeter itself, is sealed, and therefore would not be effected by any damping in the cabinet.

Room reflections, however, can often be the source of a problem in that frequency range. JMHO

[subynube]

The frequency range you said you were having trouble with was in 5Kz - 8KHz range. I believe this above the xo point of around 4KHz. This would indicate that the tweeter is the likely source of the problem. The tweeter itself, is sealed, and therefore would not be effected by any damping in the cabinet.

Room reflections, however, can often be the source of a problem in that frequency range. JMHO

Thank you. Great point :T