First Home Theater

**DIYiT** · 09 August 2007, 14:06 Thursday

I would also like to add that our current home theater is using a pair of floor standing stereo Pioneer speakers from the late 70's. I also own a pair of floor standing Pioneer S-G300B-K speakers and a 6.5 ft^3 Ascendant Audio Assassin 12 tuned to 15 hz. My entire family appreciates the larger format speakers, so I'm looking for a good set of 3 ways and not a small pair of bookshelf speakers. Quality is still very important, but having quality without sufficient output to fill a room full of people munching on popcorn during a movie just won't cut it.

**Hdale85** · 09 August 2007, 17:16 Thursday

I'm not sure what the difference in sound would be to the MTMWW's and the TMWW's but I know the MTMWW's are a good 300 dollars more in parts at least. Also they dip very low as far as impedance goes. The TMWW's are very well into the 4ohm range while the MTMWW's are closer to 3ohm speakers.

**DIYiT** · 09 August 2007, 17:32 Thursday

Well it's nice to know that about the price. Impedance shouldn't be too big of a problem since, if things go as I'm hoping they do, the mains will be run from the Mackie FR-800 which can handle 2 ohm loads on each channel.

**wildfire99** · 09 August 2007, 20:20 Thursday

My first thought was, "wow! what an upgrade!" That'll be a seriously nice xmas present if you watch movies a lot.

Do you get a discount on the mackies? I would suspect you could get a better deal with a Crown XLS 202 and a Behringer Europower 2500 or such. If you're trying to cap the price, the Ultra Drive seems like overkill also, how about the old faithful Feedback Destroyer?

As to the Denon... I'd want something that takes HDMI audio in at this stage of the game. Your high-def player may be right around the corner...

Perhaps you could take the savings on the Mackies and DCX2496 put it towards the premium on an Onkyo TX-SR705?

I wonder also how the room is set up, what size, how annoying the neighbors are. Do you need two IXL18.4's?

**Hdale85** · 09 August 2007, 20:45 Thursday

A budget that you have in mind would be nice as well. That's usually the deciding factor. Maybe if it was a little lower budget your dad may be more willing to give it a go. You can still have an excellent system that will wow a lot of people for somewhat less money probably. Like wildfire said do you really need 2 18" subs? Thats quite a bit. You may want to do it piece by piece. Maybe get the receiver and build the 3 front speakers. Something to think about.

**DIYiT** · 09 August 2007, 21:53 Thursday

Do you get a discount on the mackies? I would suspect you could get a better deal with a Crown XLS 202 and a Behringer Europower 2500 or such.

I've read that the Mackies are built heavier duty than most other amps. I was also considering the QSC RMX line of amps, so that option is open since they appear to be the same amplifier design, but I'm trying to stay away from the Behringer amps because of quality of parts used. They might be good enough, but I'd rather do it right the first time for my father since he doesn't have the DIY upgrade bug like I have (will have when I have my own place).

If you're trying to cap the price, the Ultra Drive seems like overkill also, how about the old faithful Feedback Destroyer?

As for the BFD, I have one for my bedroom stereo, but as far as I know they're discontinued. If I can find a new one somewhere, I'll get that instead, but I'm going to create a list of all new components to give to my dad so that if I can get deals it'll look like where saving quite a bit (sneaky... I know).

As to the Denon... I'd want something that takes HDMI audio in at this stage of the game. Your high-def player may be right around the corner... Perhaps you could take the savings on the Mackies and DCX2496 put it towards the premium on an Onkyo TX-SR705?

The receiver is where I need the most aid. I have a Pioneer VSX-515 for my bedroom stereo, but I am requiring that any receiver we buy for the home theater, have preamp outputs. Other than that... I'm not really sure what to look for. Denon just seemed to be one of the few brands with preamp outputs on even their cheaper receivers. So any suggestions on what to look for in a receiver, what brands to look at, and what makes a good receiver would be greatly appreciated.

I wonder also how the room is set up, what size, how annoying the neighbors are. Do you need two IXL18.4's?

The room is (without getting a tape measure out) what I would guess to be 18x25x7. However, it's at the bottom of our stairs coming into the basement with an open stairwell to the main level, and a large opening to the rest of the basement... so effectively, the subs need to pressurize the entire house.

We don't need to worry about neighbors. We live on a farm in rural north central Iowa, so we can be as loud as we want.

Like wildfire said do you really need 2 18" subs? Thats quite a bit.

Need... no, but when has overkill ever killed anyone? Plus, as stated above, the room is very open to the rest of the house.

You may want to do it piece by piece. Maybe get the receiver and build the 3 front speakers.

If we can't afford everything at once, I'll end up cutting the surrounds, the BFD, and one of the IXL subs. However, that would still mean I need two mains, the center, the receiver, and two pro amps.

I'm not even thinking about a new TV yet, (though it is due and this level of audio would almost require a better TV... we'll sort that out later).

A budget that you have in mind would be nice as well.

That's the hardest question to answer. When ask my dad about this I get the response, "How about you show me a plan and I'll tell you if its too much." So I'm supposed to build a system that gets him everything he wants (which he has yet to explain to me) and then he'll tell me if it's too expensive. So I'm looking for bang for the buck type of equipment.

The one thing I have going for me, is that my father is a movie buff.

Now for pictures: These are from the construction portion of our remodel project during the summer of 2005, so things have come along a little further on our house on the main level, but the room to be the home theater is still basically the same... just throw in a couple of couches and a TV. (to see all of the pictures of our house, go to http://www.jdjlab.com/construct/images/index.php)

HT viewed from doorway to rest of the basement

a look at the opening for the staircase

Looking up the staircase to the entryway (9 ft ceilings for that part of the house)

Showing the doorway to the HT from the basement

these two pictures show what is at the top of the stair case so it shows the large amount of air the home theater expands into.

**Hdale85** · 09 August 2007, 22:13 Thursday

Definitely looks like a decent sized space. The TMWW's should be happy in there

. As far as amps go have a look at this? http://www.emotivaaudio.com/lpa1.html for 500 bucks its hard to beat and sounds great! Just a thought? Save some bucks too. Everything else looks great if your dad will go for it.

**joetama** · 09 August 2007, 22:53 Thursday

Personally I would do the TMWW design...

Also, Mackie isn't the highest of quality. QSC/Crown is much better even in their lower series. I have worked in the Pro-Audio world for years and almost every mackie product we have demoed got pushed to the bottom of the list for one reason or another. Behringer is a decent product but I wouldn't consider mackie much higher quality than it. Behringer is great for the price, but if you want to keep this stuff long term (which it sounds like your dad does) then I would invest in something like the QSC or Crown.

Some people might disagree with me, but for simplicity sake you really don't need to make the center a 3-way. For the most coherent and blended sound I guess you do, but since you are on a budget (which you don't even really know) a 2-way would get the job done enough.

Also, give your dad some options. I grew up in a family of sound men. My dad is VERY pickey about stuff and has a very good ear so picking/building stuff for him has to be to a very high standard. So, I found when I was younger when I wanted to do a project I gave him options. Your dad will appreciate it too I am sure...

**wildfire99** · 10 August 2007, 02:14 Friday

Originally posted by DIYiT

I've read that the Mackies are built heavier duty than most other amps. I was also considering the QSC RMX line of amps, so that option is open since they appear to be the same amplifier design, but I'm trying to stay away from the Behringer amps because of quality of parts used.

Like JoeTama, I have not been overly impressed with Mackie gear, in fact I don't like it. By comparison, Behringer is definately low-rung also but since they clone good designs it's only a question of longetivity with their gear. The Crown 202's can be found el-cheapo around the net, and maybe they'll bring back those nice rebates before the end of the year. In the end, I'd rather have a Behringer than nothing at all.

As for the BFD, I have one for my bedroom stereo, but as far as I know they're discontinued

It looks like some are still floating around. MarkerTek for one claims to have stock, as does PartsExpress. If not, get the successor model FBQ2496.

The receiver is where I need the most aid.

That's for sure. Personally I don't freak out about receivers anymore. Heck, get a nice receiver and skip the pro amp for the mains (for now), unless you know you're going for reference level (like 110db). HDMI input is nice so you can get uncompressed PCM from the new HD disc players, and the Onkyo 705 has line outs for the future. I know Denon has fans, but I'm like, why spend more for the name?

The room is (without getting a tape measure out) what I would guess to be 18x25x7. However, it's at the bottom of our stairs coming into the basement with an open stairwell to the main level, and a large opening to the rest of the basement... so effectively, the subs need to pressurize the entire house.

That stinks. Consider the cost of buttkickers then, which will be preferable (IMO) to an extra sub in that instance, for tactile kick.

If we can't afford everything at once, I'll end up cutting the surrounds, the BFD, and one of the IXL subs. However, that would still mean I need two mains, the center, the receiver, and two pro amps.

That sounds like a good plan, though like mentioned I'd also cut the pro amp for the mains also. Unless you NEED the power (the Dayton 3-ways probably will punish the Onkyo, even though they rate it for 4 ohm operation). Here's an idea... the $170 Behringer A500. One vendor on the web claims to have an Crown XLS 202B for $199, since the current model is the 202D.

If you want to scrape an extra $300 from the budget, you could consider building NatalieP's for the fronts now, and moving them to surround duty later.

I'm not even thinking about a new TV yet, (though it is due and this level of audio would almost require a better TV... we'll sort that out later).

Projection... you want front projection.

That's the hardest question to answer. When ask my dad about this I get the response, "How about you show me a plan and I'll tell you if its too much."

So he doesn't know either. In that case, you want to price out a scary-expensive setup, then put your desired setup as the 'low budget' option.

**Hdale85** · 10 August 2007, 06:09 Friday

Originally posted by wildfire99

So he doesn't know either. In that case, you want to price out a scary-expensive setup, then put your desired setup as the 'low budget' option.

I was thinking this as well

So you'll shock the heck out of him and first and then later when you come in with a much more reasonable setup he won't think so much of the price. See parents always expect their kids to go super expensive

**joetama** · 10 August 2007, 11:33 Friday

Originally posted by wildfire99

Like JoeTama, I have not been overly impressed with Mackie gear, in fact I don't like it. By comparison, Behringer is definately low-rung also but since they clone good designs it's only a question of longetivity with their gear.

I don't like Mackie either... I have found it to be very much junk, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

The company I work for is a Behringer Dealer, however we very rarely use Behringer because of its reliability issues. I know a lot of people LOVE Behringer but I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for.

The Crown Amp would be a much better option for you. Even if you wanted jump into something from QSC in the RMX or the PLX series (PLX is more money but worth every penny).

First Home Theater

First Home Theater

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Related Topics