upscaler dvd player????

[maseline_98]

I was wondering what(if any) upscaling DVD player i should buy. I plan on getting a PS3 and don't know if I should just wait on it....any suggestions?

[dyazdani]

Lots of people have been buying the Oppo upscaling players. They're about $200.

Picture quality is very good, but the audio quality lacks a bit. I have one hooked up to my LCD projector, it does put out a great pic.

[Brandon B]

I have an oppo 971 hookEd to my 56" JVC HDILA, and it does quite well in the picture category.

I am also semi-planning on buying a PS3, but it's not a sure bet it's gonna have good PQ. That would throw a wrench into sales of $1000 BD decks. I am betting it is weak on features and tweakability as a BD player, so it can be used as one, to spur adoption by the masses, but not good enough to satisfy the likes of us.

I would definitely try the oppo as an interim unit if the $200 is no big deal. It will certainly have half decent resale in 6 months I would think (i.e. half).

BB

[dyazdani]

I already bought an XBox 360, so I'm skipping out on the PS3 for now...

[Chris D]

Interesting, Brandon. You think the PS3 will not be a solid-performing Blu-Ray platform?

I hadn't considered before whether the PS3 will have any upscaling capability, but since it's a gaming platform, not a dedicated player, my guess would be that it doesn't.

[Sim reality]

I hadn't considered before whether the PS3 will have any upscaling capability, but since it's a gaming platform, not a dedicated player, my guess would be that it doesn't.

I'm going to take a wait and see approach...

With the PS3 able to load Linux with a Cell processor, if sony implements the hardware properly, there should be enough power implement a software upconversion if the hardware implementation is not up to snuff...

My bet would be though that stuff like that would not be immediately available and you would be looking at; at least a year latency from the initial release date (most current programs are not designed to "grid" processing).

Personally I am hoping they have implemented the hardware well enough to hook up an external HDDVD drive just to hedge bets on whcih media wins out, but I am just speculating.

[maseline_98]

Interesting thoughts...I'm just trying to get the most use out of my new SXRD display. I have an old Toshiba(dunno the model offhand) DVD player and the picture is a little lacking from the stunning HD images from even HBOHD

[Azeke]

I would strongly consider the Oppo-971, for a couple of hundred bucks. You could also consider the Oppo-970, at $150.00, both include the HDMI cable. Then when you get the PS3 you can compare and always use the Oppo as a secondary upgrade for another system. I certainly wouldn't want to wait for PS3 with that SXRD able to display such a beautiful picture. Enjoy it now, who knows what tomorrow will bring.
Just my quick thoughts.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[earwit]

You have to remember that there are upscalers in digital TV's and
a High number of DVD players....Sometimes the scaler in the
TV looks better then the scaler in the DVD player..

Also if the orginal video source is poor, many times upscaling
makes it look worse. Upscalers do help with quality video
but don't perfrom miracles.

I'm very happy with the Pioneer 79AVI, plays anything, great audio,
and upscales via HDMI to 720P and 1080i...

[Azeke]

Indeed Earwit I have the Pioneer 59 AVi, and it is truly one of the best divd players I have ever owned. However, at a cost of ~ $650.00 USD, I don't know if maseline 98 is considering both the PS3 and an Pioneer Elite DVD player. If that is the case, I would then consider the Toshiba HD player, which is less expensive than the Elite, then he would have both HD formats.

However, I would save some money, by purchasing the Oppo 971, and use the left over money for the PS3 extras and games, that I needed. Just my humble opinion.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[maseline_98]

You have to remember that there are upscalers in digital TV's and
a High number of DVD players....Sometimes the scaler in the
TV looks better then the scaler in the DVD player..

Also if the orginal video source is poor, many times upscaling
makes it look worse. Upscalers do help with quality video
but don't perfrom miracles.

I'm very happy with the Pioneer 79AVI, plays anything, great audio,
and upscales via HDMI to 720P and 1080i...

I ordered a Sony kds-60a2000 from outpost about a month ago...and they FINALLY shipped it yesterday!!!!...I was wondering what your thoughts would be to just let the TV do the upscaling or go with the oppo. My TV should be here probably Monday/Tuesday of next week(Hopefully it will be setup and configed for the first Steeler game!!!)

[maseline_98]

Is the 971(OOS) for $200 much better than the 970.

I would like to start building a SACD/DVD-A collection, but they're pretty expensive and it is not all that important to me.

When you guys talk about sound quality, does it have poor SQ for movies as well....though I'm sure that it's a whole lot better than my toshiba that I bought 4 years ago in college anyway...just curious...

[SteveCallas]

The PS3 as a blueray player to a 1080p capable tv over HDMI should only be acting as a transport. The picture quality between blueray players under these circumstances shouldn't really matter - unless I'm missing something.

The Oppo 971 is restricted to a DVI output, and while DVI and HDMI are similar, Secrets has this to say:

"There is a common misconception in the electronics world that DVI and HDMI are identical except for HDMI's ability to carry multi-channel audio signals on top of video. This is not true. DVI outputs 8 bit RGB signals only and cannot carry 10 bit video like HDMI can. In fact, HDMI is actually capable of 12 bit transmission as well. What does this buy you? Well if you are lucky enough to have a display with an HDMI input, you can significantly reduce the contouring artifacts that are commonly associated with digital displays. A lot of this may depend on the internal processing of your display though too. This is one of the gripes I've had with DLP based projectors and displays. Most are DVI- based and only incorporate 8 bit processing internally. So contouring in gray ramps is quite evident. You'll also usually see it in skies and underwater scenes. If you are lucky enough to have a display with an HDMI input, and with high bit processing, this is pretty much eliminated."

I use a Panasonic DVD S77 which uses the Genesis/Faroudja chipset and outputs 10 bit over HDMI. Onecall.com is selling the S97, one model up, for a pretty good price right now. SD dvds upscaled to 1080i then sent to my Westy 1080p LCD, which then doubles the framerate, look VERY nice. The Westy uses Genesis/Faroujda too, but I'd rather put the "load" on the dvd player.

Either way, Panny or Oppo, I'd definitely recommend an upscaling player for your SXRD.

[bullitt731]

Indeed Earwit I have the Pioneer 59 AVi, and it is truly one of the best divd players I have ever owned. However, at a cost of ~ $650.00 USD, I don't know if maseline 98 is considering both the PS3 and an Pioneer Elite DVD player. If that is the case, I would then consider the Toshiba HD player, which is less expensive than the Elite, then he would have both HD formats.

However, I would save some money, by purchasing the Oppo 971, and use the left over money for the PS3 extras and games, that I needed. Just my humble opinion.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

How's the audio on this Pioneer. Ed

[Brandon B]

The PS3 as a blueray player to a 1080p capable tv over HDMI should only be acting as a transport. The picture quality between blueray players under these circumstances shouldn't really matter - unless I'm missing something.

Things I think they might skimp on:

Quality of the MPREG/H.264/VC1 decodes

Deinterlacing capability. HD-DVD and BD support 1080p, but many disks are and will be encoded as 1080i, and the PS3 may not do good IVT even on properly flagged material. And some material is not film based and is naturally interlaced.

Quality of scaling to 720/768 (not all HDTVs are 1080), and it may have a 720p output option. Most STBs do.

Navigation features.

What's the audio out situation going to be? HDMI 1.3 that supports all the disk format lossless codecs? Don't think so. Multichannel analog outputs? Don't think so on that end either.

In other words, I think there will still be from a couple to many reasons to prefer a nice BD deck over a PS3 especially for the HTG crowd. Even for another $400.

BB

[SteveCallas]

Deinterlacing capability. HD-DVD and BD support 1080p, but many disks are and will be encoded as 1080i, and the PS3 may not do good IVT even on properly flagged material. And some material is not film based and is naturally interlaced.

If it's a 1080i disc, I'd still only use the PS3 as a transport to a true 1080p tv and let the tv increase the framerate. I think people fail to grasp the real benefit of a true 1080p display. True 1080p means the display can handle 1920x1080 pixels and properly display 1080i or 1080p material without any cropping or downscaling, resulting in 1:1 pixel mapping - non 1080p tvs are downscaling 1080i material, so picture information is lost. The actual difference between 24, 30, or 60 frames per second with 1920x1080 material shouldn't come close to being visible at such a high resolution. The real issue is whether you can display all the pixels, not whether it's interlaced or progressive.

Quality of scaling to 720/768 (not all HDTVs are 1080), and it may have a 720p output option. Most STBs do

This is a compromise to begin with, but if the case in one's situation, then yes, the quality of the scaling in the PS3 will be important.

What's the audio out situation going to be? HDMI 1.3 that supports all the disk format lossless codecs?

Yeah, it should be. Latest pictures of the PS3 show the new DD True HD and DTS-HD logos. HDMI 1.3 is supposed to be able to carry 36 bits of picture information too.

[Brandon B]

Make that MPEG.

MPREG is an expansion method, not compression.

[augerpro]

If it's a 1080i disc, I'd still only use the PS3 as a transport to a true 1080p tv and let the tv increase the framerate. I think people fail to grasp the real benefit of a true 1080p display. True 1080p means the display can handle 1920x1080 pixels and properly display 1080i or 1080p material without any cropping or downscaling, resulting in 1:1 pixel mapping - non 1080p tvs are downscaling 1080i material, so picture information is lost. The actual difference between 24, 30, or 60 frames per second with 1920x1080 material shouldn't come close to being visible at such a high resolution. The real issue is whether you can display all the pixels, not whether it's interlaced or progressive.

What if you have a tv with not so good deinterlacing? I'd like to be able to send it a 1080p signal from a player with a better deinterlacer. Just more flexiblity, probably not an issue for most people though. Also the quality of 3:2 pulldown has to be considered when you say framerate shouldn't matter. It may not be a purely PQ issue, but judder can be distracting.

[Azeke]

How's the audio on this Pioneer. Ed

Ed,

I found the Pioneer 59 Avi to be above average acoustically, based on my comparison with other lower end DVD players. I'm also curious as to how it compares to the Toshiba HD player, which has a lower MSRP, but I have not compared the two.

Here is an URL that I have found helpful:

Pioneer Elite 59 Avi.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[bullitt731]

Ed,

I found the Pioneer 59 Avi to be above average acoustically, based on my comparison with other lower end DVD players. I'm also curious as to how it compares to the Toshiba HD player, which has a lower MSRP, but I have not compared the two.

Here is an URL that I have found helpful:

Pioneer Elite 59 Avi.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

Many thanks for the link. :T

[Azeke]

You're welcome.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[maseline_98]

As far as the Pioneer Elite 59 Avi goes...it's $600...wouldn't it just make more sense to kick up the extra couple hundred and buy a blu-ray player--->i',m sure the sammy and sony that are out now have good upconversion and decent sound????

Or am I wrong about that?

[Azeke]

As far as the Pioneer Elite 59 Avi goes...it's $600...wouldn't it just make more sense to kick up the extra couple hundred and buy a blu-ray player--->i',m sure the sammy and sony that are out now have good upconversion and decent sound????

Or am I wrong about that?

Those are certainly my sentiments, and the Toshiba HD-DVD is actually less expensive, and has 1080p to boot. I would lean more towards the Toshiba player, based on its cost (MSRP $499.99), at least until the HD-DVD wars have settled, Blue ray cost almost twice as much. Just my humble thoughts.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[maseline_98]

Does anybody know when HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray discs might start being rented at video stores. I have yet to see then out. It kinda sux that the movies themselves cost around $30.

Also...which Toshiba model were you talking about? I haven't seen the HD-DVD payer that can output 1080p? or am I missing something?

[Azeke]

Also...which Toshiba model were you talking about? I haven't seen the HD-DVD payer that can output 1080p? or am I missing something?

My apologies, that should be 1080i, wishful thinking perhaps.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[maseline_98]

I've heard there is an HD-DVD unit that does upconversion for the 360 coming out soon. I might just wait for that. I guess it will be ~$170 and supposedly will support 1080P