Want towers that sound like M&K

[Rolyasm]

Looking for some speakers for my dedicated HT. My favorite speakers that I have heard to date are the M&K s-150's.

http://mksound.com/satellite_speakers.php

Unfortunately, the DIY sub I built may have trouble crossing over at 80Hz and will probably be better crossed at 60 or 40Hz. The M&K's frequency only extends down to 80Hz.
Now, to be honest I have never heard anyone's DIY, so I can't compare. What I have heard is as follows, not sure of the models, but the towers are all their top range speaker: Polk, Klipsch, B&W, Energy, Def. Tech. Hard to say what my favorites were. I thought that for the price, the energy speakers were just as good as the B&W. I use some older Polk towers now, but after hearing the M&K, they sound very "thin". Not sure how to describe it, it just seems like the world opens up with the M&K's. They are very, very detailed, maybe bright. I may have to try some online brands like Axiom and send back the ones I don't like. If, however, anyone has listened to the M&K's( THX, frequency 80Hz and up) and knows of a larger speaker that sounds similar, please let me know. All thoughts welcome.
Roly

[---k---]

Not sure if it helps you or not, but last winter I did a lot of speaker shopping/listening/comparisions. At one of the stores I went to, they had all the Klipsh and B&W in one crappy little room. I didn't like any of them. In the dedicated listening rooms, they had a M&K S750 setup and another the S150. The S750 was in my price range, and I really liked them, and the way they sounded. As I'm sure you are aware, the S150 was even better. In home demo was a must for me. That place wouldn't, and there wasn't any other M&K dealers left around here for in home, so M&K was off my list.

I ended up doing an in home demo of the Ascend 340SE, Paradigm Studio 40s, and Dyn Audio 42s. CJD also brought over his budget DIY RS150 MTMs. I can honestly say that his were the best, followed by the Ascend 340SE, then it was kind of a toss up based on personal preferances.

I ended up getting the Ascends and am pretty happy. Since I also liked the M&K's, you might want to try the Ascends. With the matching stands, they look pretty good.

And, if you're willing to try DIY, I wouldn't hesitate (based on my very brief exposure) to recommend the sticky designs. I think you will like them. They all are designed to be neutral, which I think is similar to M&K. Not like Paradigm and some of the other brands.

[gd]

Or... you might go in the other direction, and simply buy an M&K sub, in the interest of having an optimally-matched sub for the speakers you like best.

Or re-do the X-over in your DIY sub.

Easier to do that than trying to find speakers that match another's sonics.

[Rolyasm]

Thanks for the replies.
----k----,
Do you have a link for the DIY that CJD did? Also, any thought on cost comparison? I will try to audition some Ascends. Not sure of any local dealers, but I will look around.
GD,
I would feel really bad building these massive subs under my riser and then not using them. I didn't explain what I had done, sub wise, so I will post a pic. The subs are not movable, so I am relying a lot on EQ. Yes, if I had just build a regular, movable sub, I would do just what you mentioned. Thanks.
Roly

[ThomasW]

Roly certainly doesn't not need another sub. The one he has will lay waste to most on the planet.

What he needs is a fullrange loudspeaker that he can run low enough to match up with the sub.

Retail audio isn't an area where I follow what's hot and what's not, since my world is DIY.

It might be helpful if Roly provided a price range he wanted to work within.

These are Chris' (CJD) speakers......



The post containing all the info is here

http://htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=203855&postcount=537

The thread detailing their development is here

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11873&page=1&pp=35

Were these sold at retail the cost would be $3500-$5000. I think the parts/materials cost is approx $1500/pair depending on the variables involved

Without a knowledgable person to handle the technical aspects of the construction this is not a first time project for anyone.

[Rolyasm]

Wow, they look great, but as Thomas said, not for a noobster like myself. Better try something a lot smaller and simpler first. Price range is around $3,000 for the mains, then whatever for the surrounds. Also, since I have't heard Chris' speakers, I wouldn't want to spend a year building them and then only like them so, so. Anyone living in Utah is more than welcome to invite me over for listen. I'll supply the steaks.
Roly

[---k---]

Ascends are only mail order, and only ~$550/pr. Since Thomas clarified things and said that you need full range speakers, they might not work for you. They are just a MTM w/ 6.5" drivers. Decent commercial full range speakers are out of my price range, so I didn't look at them much and I'm probably not much more help. It looks like they are in your price range though, so it sounds like you can have some fun auditioning.

I briefly listened to the speakers in the picture above. I was blown away. It was very very impressive. And for the record, i think they look even bigger in person than in that photo.

But the speakers we did a AvB comparision with the Ascends/Paradigm/Dyn were his budget $250 MTM design. And, I can truely attest that they were better than the $1400 Paradigm Studio 40s. But, again it sounds like you need a more full range.

If you're set on retail, and arn't afriad of doing internet companies, I've read lots or happy Rocket owner reports. Might want to check out something like the RS850.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=50.1

or the Onix Ref 3.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=38.1

Or, you could build CJD's budget $250 MTM to get your confidnce and skills up to the task, then undertake a $2500 DIY project that would destroy all retail speakers under $10,000.

[ThomasW]

Roly,

Here's a thought.... Since you like the M&K, buy a pair, and try them as the front mains. If they work (Dennis thinks they will) then you're good to go. If they don't work as the mains, they will certainly work well as the surrounds/side effects speakers. And you can continue your quest for mains...

Another option is use the M&K as mains, put a box below them containing a couple 'filler' woofers to bridge the low frequencys between the M&K and your sub. These boxes a n00b could easily build.

[gd]

massive subs under my riser

Eeeeeeeeep... I had no idea... nice setup.

For $3k, you should put in some audition time and expect to find something you like even better than the M&Ks... they're OK, but kinda restrictive insofar as being designed for a proprietary (mostly movie) system... I think you can do better to complement that sub setup.

Rather than match the M&K sound, I'd start a new search with fresh ears... in addition to cruising the retailers, check AudioCircle, they have a few boutique and/or DIY speaker mfrs there as sponsors / participants... http://www.audiocircle.com

[Rolyasm]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of options to think about. Good to know if the M&K's were my absolute favorite I could use some fillers that even I could do. I assume that means no crossovers, no complex box design, that sort of thing. I will do some more auditioning and see if I can find something that has as much clarity with a full range specifications. Thanks.
Roly

[autio]

Roly,
Why dont you stick with the original plan, tannoys, give the 15dmt II a try you will be far from disappointed. I use them with my 4 tempest IB sub and they sound unbelievable.

[Rolyasm]

Autio,
That is one other company I had in mind. I know they have a few places around here to audition, and there were on my list. I also live 10 miles from the RBH headquarters. I did listen to them last fall and wasn't totally impressed. For some reason they hurt my ears. Things like clapping really sounded just piercing and I left feeling disappointed. I tried a search for the 15DMT II on tannoy's site and didn't find anything. Are they an older speaker? If so, what newer model would you compare them to?
Roly

[ThomasW]

I tried a search for the 15DMT II on tannoy's site and didn't find anything. Are they an older speaker? If so, what newer model would you compare them to? Roly

Use google

http://www.primalgear.com/tannoymon006.html

[Rolyasm]

Yes,
I found them on yahoo at a couple of places, but wasn't seeing them on Tannoy's website. I was thinking that most of the dealers won't have that specific model, especially if it is an older version. So If I had a newer version to compareit to I might be able to assist any dealers to help me out. Even something similar might be worthwhile. I think what I have seen around here has been smaller bookshelf Tannoys. Haven't seen anything bigger, but I will make some calls. Thanks.
Roly

[autio]

They are still on the main tannoy site try here--- http://www.tannoy.com/System15DMTII Also, It still is a current model.

[Rolyasm]

Autio,
What were you using for surrounds? I have heard direct radiating and bipole/dipole modes, and for HT, which is what this is for, I prefere the bipole/dipole modes? Did you use 5 of these for 5.1, or what mix were you using?
Roly

[NoHype]

I tend to think that your problem isnt that your subs dont like to play in the 80hz region but more an issue with the placement of them and the effects of the room . Have you ever run an RTA program in your room to see where your problem areas are ? I bet a simple bass trap or two would fix your problem and allow you to x-over your mains where ever you want .

With that said i'm not a big fan of x-over points higher then 60hz . No matter what speakers you chose or x-over point bass traps will (not the tube style that do almost nothing for freq's bellow 80hz) do wonders for the sound of your room.

[autio]

Roly,

I use the 12dmtII which is a smaller version (12 inch) of the same (somewhat) speaker. I know you are building this for movies but my bigger concern was just music (2 channel). But I must say they never dissappoint me whether I am listening to music or watching a movie.

Lee

[Rolyasm]

http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=7038

This is my first attempt with the B.Feedback Destroyer.
Here is where I am at. Any suggestions are helpful. I want to narrow down the list of possible speakers to audition and purchase. Either I go with a monitor, most likely the M&K's s-150 (or s-250 high outputs) that have a frequency low end around 80Hz, or I go with a full range. Question ONE: If I go for a full range speaker that I set as "large" under speaker setup, does it have to be a speaker that plays down to 20Hz, or can it be higher, like 30, or 35? Question TWO: If I did set my mains to large, would I set my x-over at 40 for my subs? I know many places set your mains for "small" even if they have a great range. I realize many THX or HT speakers only go to 80 and is this because it gives a better sound with HT? I don't want a music system, but a great HT system. So I would almost rather keep the 80Hz crossover, if it will give me better all around HT performance, and work at the middle frequencies. Question THREE: If I do have a gap somewhere, would it be sufficient to buy a subwoofer that had a higher frequency range to fill that gap? So cross my main subs at 40, and the other sub at 100? Would that work? Thomas had mentioned filler woofers but I wasn't sure if these would be run from the Sub output or a speaker output? I am trying to decide if I should spend time looking at full range speakers that I might not like quite as much, but be happy with, or to stick with the monitors and then work on the fixes. Is there any way for certain to determine if my subs would be adequate crossed higher? A sure-fire way? I might take Thomas' idea and buy the s-150s and if they don't work, just use them as rears. I was thinking more of dipole/bipole rears, but I know that direct speakers can work as well for rears. Kind of expensive rears, but maybe worth a try. I do like the Energy towers, and they go to 31Hz.
Roly

[NoHype]

Why not do the simple least expensive and most effective thing and looking to the possibility that your subs are not the issue it's your placement of them or where your sitting. I by no means not it all , far from it , but I have never seen any sub that wont at the very least play cleanly at 80hz . Even IB subs and the choice in drivers for them have been found to just fine playing into this region .

Please dont take my remarks as being rude thats not my intent.

[Rolyasm]

I have been comparing speakers this week. I still like the M&Ks, especially for the price, but am looking at a few others. Both of the other speakers I like have a frequency range of 50Hz and up. The T1 system by RBH and the 8200 from Atlantic Technologies. Both have pedistal woofers that reach the lower 20Hz range. My thought was that if I purchased one of these speakers with a lower frequency extension, it might help my subs to reach them on happier ground, then if needed, I could purchase the pedistal woofers. Thomas had mentioned if I use the M&K's that I could add a filler woofer that I could possibly DIY. My questions are these. 1)Would I get better mid-range sound by using a woofer built by the same company? So using the pedistal woofers from the particular speaker company for its counterpart vs. a DIY ? 2) What kind of a price range would I be looking at for a DIY filler woofer? 3) If in these scenarios I needed the filler woofers or pedistal woofers, how would I work my crossover or speaker setting. Is it simply a LFE, for the very, very low, or how do you all setup your full-range monsters with your IB?
Roly
Below are the web sites for A. Tech and RBH.

http://www.rbhsound.com/t1.shtml

http://www.rbhsound.com/t2.shtml

http://www.atlantictechnology.com/system_8200.htm