A line conditioner - who needs one?

[avab]

Hi all,

Am in the final phases of finalizing my home theater purchases. I have a question regarding a line conditioner?

What buying tips do you have? Like - who needs one? Which one is sufficient?

My current setup:
Rotel RSP-1068
Rotel RMP-1075 amp
Denon 1910 DVD
Infocus IN76 or Mitsu3000C
DirecTV HD Reciever H20

Do I need a line conditioner? If so which one? I've seen those by Belkin (Pure A/V, Panamax, Monster)

Thanks!

[ThomasW]

If possible start with a whole house surge. One could be put on the main panel supplying the HT

[peterS]

some of the pure av stuff can be had below cost at .....

__________________________________________________ ____

Edit by moderator

Peter,

Come on, how many of your posts must be edited before you stop posting referrals to where you work?

[kurtholz]

hahaha, at least he didnt try and sell a few junker cables for cheap, now that is a real sin,

:-)

Kurt

[alpina]

we have ordered the belkin pf60 - very nice looking piece of equipment.

will let you know how we go with it

cheers,

julie

[Shane Martin]

I know of a few people lately buying up Belkin PF60's for ~$200. PM for a link if you want one. They retail for ~$700. Far below a blue shirt cost

[Race Car Driver]

Thats because they are all on clearance!
They really dont "COST" all that much to begin with

[alpina]

in australia they retail for around $1599 i think.

we got a really good price so happy and it will make everything neat and tidy

julie

[Kal Rubinson]

To answer the original question: You do not need a line conditioner unless there's something wrong with your AC. What you might consider is surge protection as suggested by ThomasW.

Kal

[aud19]

To answer the original question: You do not need a line conditioner unless there's something wrong with your AC. What you might consider is surge protection as suggested by ThomasW.

Kal

True. But a LOT of people have far from clean AC 100% of the time. Also surge protection doesn't help with brownouts/voltage dips etc where most conditioners do.

[Kal Rubinson]

True. But a LOT of people have far from clean AC 100% of the time. Also surge protection doesn't help with brownouts/voltage dips etc where most conditioners do.

Yes, but it depends on the definition of 'line conditioner.' The vast majority of the one's sold for audio systems are only filters and surge protectors. The APC H-series would do it as will their S-series that I use. The pricier Panamax units will, too, but not the ones usually recommended at the big-box stores.

Kal

[Andrew M Ward]

Yes, bu it depends on the definition of 'line conditioner.' The vast majority of the one's sold for audio systems are only filters and surge protectors. The APC H-series would do it as will their S-series that I use. The pricier Panamax units will, too, but not the ones usually recommended at the bib-box stores.

Kal

This is true...(Above)

Most line devices on the market are worthless junk in fancy boxes... (Sorry, but true)

APC is one of the very (very) few who actually do what their lit says it will do... Just check for UL listings on your UPS line conditioners, Oops there is none (Right!) Now what? ...

Some very large (hype and all) companies have non-UL line conditioner products, Ask why? Because, they don't actually do anything, and certainly not anything even close to what their liturature says they are suposed to do... Makes it tough to get UL if you're pulling cheese...

[aud19]

Yes, bu it depends on the definition of 'line conditioner.' The vast majority of the one's sold for audio systems are only filters and surge protectors. The APC H-series would do it as will their S-series that I use. The pricier Panamax units will, too, but not the ones usually recommended at the bib-box stores.

Kal

Well that's typical of most gear/advice you get at big-box stores isn't it? And that would be why people come here :B

For the record I own APC power conditioners and HIGHLY recommend them :T

[LikeCoiledSteel]

I am looking at the Belkin PF60, that can be had now for less than $200 new.

My only hesitation is that it does not have voltage correction. What good is it knowing that my input voltage is low, if the unit will not do a damn thing about it? I suppose it is better than nothing, but voltage correction would be ideal.

The $450 Furman models have voltage correction. Maybe better to save for those.
Steel

[ThomasW]

Unless you have HUGE swings in voltage, the power supplies in the equipment is adequate to that task. Equipment doesn't start acting up unless the line voltages drop down to ~107VAC.

It takes a MASSIVE ferro-resonant tranny to stabilize the voltage for an entire A/V system. And they downside to those trannys is that they hum. And the higher the draw the louder they hum.

The Belkin is a steal at the current blowout pricing.... :T They're not a cure-all but it's nice to have some EMI/RFI filtration in the system, particularily if some of your gear has digital switching power supplies.

[Sithlord]

Shane I would like that link you have I tried to send you a PM but you have exceeded your storage limit. Thanks in advance

[ThomasW]

Links to a product blowout like this are ok..

http://triointernational.com/all.cfm/partNo/AP4130012/manufacturer/BELKIN_COMPONENTS/name/Belkin_PureAV_Home_Theater_Power_Console_PF60_-_Surge_suppressor

http://www.provantage.com/belkin-ap41300-12~7BELD011.htm

I have one on order from Provantage...

[Shane Martin]

Thomas saved me the trouble

I just didn't want to break any rules.

[Dotay]

I have a pretty serious hum that I get through my EP1500 and I use a cheater plug to eliminate it. Would a unit like this eliminate a ground loop hum like I'm experiencing?

[ThomasW]

Good question, I think they'd help but.....

Prosound amps/EQ/etc., are notorious for this. Like you I just throw caution to the wind and use a cheater plug.

There are products designed for this purpose...

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/products.html

http://www.artproaudio.com/products_main.asp?cat=13&id=103&type=90&show=

http://www.dcispec.com/

Depending on the design these devices can limit bandwidth. So check with the mfgr before you buy.

Jensen makes a ton of devices. Warning that their stuff is $pendy. They will refund your money if the device doesn't do what you need.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/iso_aud.html

[aud19]

You could also try to correct the ground loop (likely cable line) at the source

[eddiem67]

Living in CA (known for brown outs) I wanted to make sure I dont burn out my bulb on my Sony RPTVLCD, so a UPS system would give me time to let the the bulb cool down. Those bulbs arent cheap, so I think its worth it, if you have a projector of some sort that requires cooling when you power down. Also if you plugged into an outlet that shares the power with maybe a fridge, washer, micro...I would get one, otherwise, power straight to the main box is the way to go.

[ThomasW]

That's wise advice. When I used a LCD PJ, it was always plugged into a UPS.... :T

[joetama]

Cheater Plugs, you guys are looking to die lol.....

You get a hum because of 2 reasons usually. The ground isn't good enough and you cables aren't grounded out right from one source to another. PA, gear is BAD at dirtying up grounds and such.....

[Dotay]

Has anyone who ordered the PF60 from provantage received the unit yet? I received an email saying the order was forwarded to the regional warehouse on May 5th but I haven't heard anything since.

[Glen B]

Has anyone who ordered the PF60 from provantage received the unit yet? I received an email saying the order was forwarded to the regional warehouse on May 5th but I haven't heard anything since.

I order from Provantage all the time and IME find them to be very reliable -- which I value over lowest price. I am in New York and apart from a couple of times where items were shipped from California, I have always received in-stock merchandise in 24 hours. The PF60 is a special order item and therein may lie the reason for the delay. If your package is being shipped by ground it may take a few days depending on where it is being shipped from. First, check their order status page for a package tracking number. If that does not help, e-mail or call customer service for that information.

[Vinny]

Has anyone who ordered the PF60 from provantage received the unit yet? I received an email saying the order was forwarded to the regional warehouse on May 5th but I haven't heard anything since.

I recieved mine this morning and just got it set up(@Long Island, NY). When I ordered the PF60 they said they had the stock but they had to turn to special order after I ordered it. I was not too happy with it. I had done a lot of online shopping(pretty much everything in my bedroom are pretty much all bought on the internet) and this is the first time I bought from Provantage because they have pretty deep shipping cost. FedEx said it should've came yesterday and I waited half day in home without seeing FedEx's truck coming(well it's FedEx's problem though).

Pretty happy with the unit so far as it can show the current usage for individual bank(2X outlet). Oh beware the front panel can get scratched VERY easily. It got a scar on it's face after 5minutes out of the box already :M

[Glen B]

When I ordered the PF60 they said they had the stock but they had to turn to special order after I ordered it. I was not too happy with it.

Hmmm. That's weird. Sounds like you ordered by phone. Still, you could have checked availability online beforehand by clicking on the item. Their realtime inventory system usually tells you how many pieces of the item are in stock, on order, special order, etc. After about 25-30 purchases, I've never had a probem with an order.

[drsiebling]

I've got a fairly low-end Panamax unit that has performed very well for me. It noticably improved picture quality on my Plasma and I've seen it regulate power to my HT as the rest of the lights in my home were dimming because of power fluctuations. Previously to installing the Panamax, these power fluctuations would cause several of the system's components to switch off automatically. Now, with the Panamax, everything runs smoothly and doesn't shut down during these power glitches.

Just my 2 cents.

-B

[ThomasW]

I have one of these on order with Provantage. The $16 for shipping 22+lbs to Denver seems reasonable to me. I ordered it online and knew it was a special order. Shipping date is supposed to be the May 16th. All in all it seems to be a steal at the price... :T

[Dotay]

Yeah I was aware that it was shipping from the manufacturer and I'm not really worried or anything, I was just wondering what the approximate turn around time was. When did you order yours Thomas? For those who have received there units when did you order? I ordered mine on May 3rd so hopefully I'll have it relatively soon.

Edit: Oops, that's May 3rd not April

[ThomasW]

Ordered mine May 2nd.

RyanC (---K--- on HT-Guide) also ordered one on May 2nd, he received a shipping notice May 9th.

[Vinny]

Hmmm. That's weird. Sounds like you ordered by phone. Still, you could have checked availability online beforehand by clicking on the item. Their realtime inventory system usually tells you how many pieces of the item are in stock, on order, special order, etc. After about 25-30 purchases, I've never had a probem with an order.

Yea they had the real time inventory system and still had the issue which made me a little sad by that time(the day after I ordered). They emailed me and said it went special order and was suppose to ship at May 17th, fortunately they shipped the real thing out at 8th :T (I don't have time for setting up at 17th already :B )

I ordered mine on Apr 30th FYI

[audiojunky]

Hi - after reading this thread, I'm thinking of getting line conditioner as well and was looking at the Belkin PF60.

Anyone know the difference between the Belkin PF60 and the Belkin PF30?

I will be hooking up a receiver and a CD player max to this so do I need something like the Belkin PF60 or is the Belkin PF30 sufficient?

http://www.provantage.com/ seems to have a great price for those as well.

[Vinny]

Hi - after reading this thread, I'm thinking of getting line conditioner as well and was looking at the Belkin PF60.

Anyone know the difference between the Belkin PF60 and the Belkin PF30?

I will be hooking up a receiver and a CD player max to this so do I need something like the Belkin PF60 or is the Belkin PF30 sufficient?

http://www.provantage.com/ seems to have a great price for those as well.

It should be more than enough. I did checked the current upon having the reciever(2 channel)+player+ SVS ISD-12/V were no more than 2A while playing the SACDs. I went for PF60 because it has 13outlets which I need all of them(yes all are occupied already) as the same outlet of workstation of computer(plus lots of accessories).

[alpina]

With the PF60 (mine still in box), i understand that it has designated inputs for different components (eg, 2 for amp, 2 for audio, etc). what happens if you fill the designated slots and need more - can you just plug into any vacant one?

as it stands my amp slots will remain vacant as i will be connecting them straight to power and am hoping to use those slots for other components.

Cheers,

Julie

[Glen B]

With the PF60 (mine still in box), i understand that it has designated inputs for different components (eg, 2 for amp, 2 for audio, etc). what happens if you fill the designated slots and need more - can you just plug into any vacant one?

as it stands my amp slots will remain vacant as i will be connecting them straight to power and am hoping to use those slots for other components.

Cheers,

Julie

The levels of filtration and isolation on the digital, video, audio and high-current slots of the PF60 appear to be customized for those specific types of equipment. Plugging a video device into an audio outlet for example will work, but you may end up not maximizing the performance of the conditioner. It all depends on exactly what you are plugging in where, and the level of filtration provided at the slot. What I do in cases where I need additional outlet spaces is to use a 3-way plug-in adapter (see pic for an example only -- your plug type in Australia will differ of course). I'm sure others will chime in with additional ideas.

[alpina]

thanks glen.

thats a great suggestion.

only question is will the multiple connections into one slot impact detrimentally on power draw, etc as the unit is only expecting one component?

julie

[Glen B]

thanks glen.

thats a great suggestion.

only question is will the multiple connections into one slot impact detrimentally on power draw, etc as the unit is only expecting one component?

julie

No problem as long as you don't draw more than the receptacle of the line conditioner is rated to provide.

[nick77]

I have a pretty serious hum that I get through my EP1500 and I use a cheater plug to eliminate it. Would a unit like this eliminate a ground loop hum like I'm experiencing?

Just plugged in my EP2500 to PF60 and no hum. Way cool!

[alpina]

No problem as long as you don't draw more than the receptacle of the line conditioner is rated to provide.

awesome! thanks

so which slot does an av receiver get plugged into - amp, video, audio ????

[ThomasW]

amp...

[---k---]

I received my PF60 earlier this week. I've been having fun turning everything on and off to see how much power it draws. According to the PF60 (and going from memory):

No load on my line, I get 124.4V out of the wall. With all my gear on at it drops to around 122.4V

My Athlon1700+ HTPC consumes a consistant 1.5amps. Recording video with a three Haupage PVR tuners doesn't put much demand on the processor, so I haven't seen any flucuation.

My Pioneer 1015TX receiver consumes 0.8amps at idle. I have to really be pushing it to see any fluctuation.

My Toshiba 32" CRT Low-Def TV consumes 1.5 amps. It is kind of cool though, if the TV is cold, when it turns on it spikes way up for a split second, I once say it hit 11.4 amps. Who knows how accurate it is.

My Nady XA-1100 amp consumes 1.5 amps at idle. Putting in a DVD demo and cranking it up sees this number climb. I think I saw it spike up to around 6 amps.

My BFD and cheap DVD player do not register any power usuage.

With one of the AVS Demo DVD's, and everything on, I think I saw my power usage spike to a high of 7.8 amps. I'm going to try and see if I can get that a bit higher. :B

Just fun information to have.

As far as if it is improving anything, I never really had any problems to solve, so I'm not expecting much. I want to say that my TV picture looks cleaner, but I never did any A/B comparisions. I think it is just me wanting to beleive that the filter is doing something. And, since all of my TV is run through a mpeg tuner card, it really isn't fair anyway.

I'm not running my Cable coax through the unit yet. I'm concerned that it will lower the signel, and since I'm already splitting the run three ways, any signel drop would be a problem. I'll probably will experiment one of these days. But, it is a real pain in the butt to get behind my equipement to move cables around.

Overall, is seems like a nice peice of gear. It is pretty (though I do wish the face turned off). It is fun to play with. And, I'm sure it does a decent job cleaning up problems where they exist.




Thomas,
How are you liking yours? Can we expect any projects or mods? How does it compare to the Monster?

[audiojunky]

Thanks for all the posts regarding the line conditioner - they've been extremely helpful. The posts are more geared towards HT though and I'm wondering what I would need to protect my 2 channel audio setup.

I have a Krell 400Xi integrated amp and will be adding a Rotel RCD-1072 and that's pretty much it - no plasma TV, no surround processors, nothing. Given this setup I want to invest in something that would protect my 2 chanell audio setup. I currently have a $30 Belkin surge protector which I'm sure isn't enough to protect my setup, right?

The Belkin PF30 seems to be a good choice based on this forum (Belkin PF60) - I just want to make sure that the PF30 will be good enough or if I will need to invest in more expensive equipment.

[Dotay]

I received my unit and hooked it up to my gear over the weekend. I didn't really do any A-B testing but it may have made a slight improvement in the clarity of my tv signal but it's definitely not a mind blowing difference by any means. It did however do two things that I am really happy with.

-It completely eliminated the hum I had on my EP1500 amp without the use of cheater plugs. :T

-Automatically turns on this amp when I turn on my receiver using the remote delay feature. I have the delay set at 5 seconds and this turns on the amp just after my receiver powers up so I avoid the pop. It also shuts the amp off when I switch the receiver off. This is a great feature and was one of the main reasons I wanted this unit.

I think it's a relative bargain at the ~$180 shipped for the unit purchased from Provantage.