newbie help needed

[kahf]

Hey guys, just joined this forum, thought id get some valuable knowledge.
Am v v fond ov home theater, now finally im gettiing a chance of havin one.

I recently purchased, the entry level home cinema system
JBL ESC Xcite 5.1
with a total output of 185 RMS, dunoo how good that is, so id really needa coment on that aswell.

anyways, i have a room with the following dimensions, which i can use as theater room
20'-7" * 25'-9", so the room is rectangular with a lot of depth.

now i don't know if theese dimensions are adequate or big or small.
I also don't know, if I should have the ceiling high as normal, or keep it low.
some dude told me, a low ceilieng say aorund 10' was good for better sound. I don't know how credible are his words.

anyways folks, id really appreciate if you help me out here.
tell me abt the system I have and will it do, or not.
Also, abt my room.

looking forward to some xpert opnion
latterz

[dyazdani]

The speaker system you purchased is what we would call HTIB (home theater in a box). We generally try to steer people towards other options provided that the budget permits.

Your room is quite large, the ratio of the dimensions is what matters, not necessarily the absolute value (10ft vs. 12ft etc.). What height is your ceiling now?

IMHO, your speakers will have a difficult time operating in that size room...

[kahf]

Well the room height is roughly arnd 10ft.
is that OK or shall I raise it or lower it.
Sice the room is yet to be constructed, I can ammend it to what ever is best.

also give me more details on "HTIB".

at the moment this syetem is in my basement, with rough layout but it sounds pretty good, even though my current basement size is
25*20.

so what do u recommend? shall I decrease the room size?
and will the system I have be adequate?

[dyazdani]

Are you modifying your basement or building a main level room from scratch? FYI: there is a "Spaced Out" forum here for room construction stuff.

The "Golden Cuboid" is popular for a rectangular room. That would be 16x26 with a 10' ceiling. In this case, each dimension's ratio is 1.618 to the others. In general you want to avoid a square room and try to avoid "even" ratios of dimensions - for example a 10x20 room.

HTIB is not an optimum setup for "HT Junkies" like most of us here. I think most people agree that a minimum budget for "starter" HT system is around $2500 give or take. Most HTIB systems are not going to have the quality or power you'll need for true home theater experience.

Might there be any high-end shops near you where you could audition some systems at various price points?

[brac]

HTIB.... home theater in a box, we think of it as junk, (sorry). If you are commited to building a Home Theater you should really consider chosing your equiptment, not as a set but each piece for it's own benifit, of course speaks should match, but the don't mean come in one box. Spend some time reading the forum. look for "things I wish I had done"
Best of luck
Brac

[gd]

Well... 'junk' was a little harsh... everybody's got to start somewhere.

However, if it is possible to return your HTIB, and expand your budget to $2500-3000 , I think we all recommend that you do so (that's US$ - I googled your JBL, seems it's for the European market - where are you located?).

You definitely have a large room... you may be able to get by with smaller speakers, but you'll definitely need amplification of at least 100w per channel and a good-size subwoofer.

So... if you can, ditch the HTIB, enlarge your budget, tell us if you can alter the room during construction, and describe your listening preferences (music or movies)... and then expect to hear some good advice on equipment.

[kahf]

glad im getting some good valuable info here.
YES i can alter the size of the room, as a matter of fact, it's going to be in the basment of this new house vr constructing.
although the construction is yet to start in a month's time, I have enuff time time to alter the room plan.

Well I agree with you as far as the "HTIB" issue is concerned, I purchased it form Dubai, but guess it's best suited for my bedroom.
I live in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Would You recommend BOSE?
I was planin on buying one, forgot the model #
but it had thoose small cube speakers 8 in all i think
2each for L C R
and 1 for LS & RS
with a stated output of 180RMS/ speaker

I dun have a prob with budget, just that evrything ID hav to get, Id hav to fly to Dubai for it, since itz the nearets shoppin point.

ALso i was planning on going for HARMON KARDON
what abt this? is it good?

and once again, what is the optimum room size and room height for a theatere room

[dyazdani]

Would You recommend BOSE?

NO

This is hard for me since I have no idea what is available to you.

[gd]

No BOSE... no all-in-one mini system packages.

Cannot imagine what is available in Pakistan, but for starters, consider an entry-level system to be somewhat like this:

AV receiver (contains processor, radio tuner and power amps) -- Marantz, Rotel, Pioneer, Denon... yes, Harman Kardon is good.

DVD player -- manufacturers are the same as AV receivers.

5 matched speakers (front L/R, center, rear L/R) plus a medium-to-large subwoofer -- buy speakers from a dedicated speaker manufacturer (B&W, Polk, NHT, Canton), not Sony or Yamaha... try to audition if you can before buying.

Television -- whatever you like that fits the room and budget.

Select and buy the above components separately to match your usage and budget... try to visit a retailer and listen to them so you have some idea of what to expect, and experience the improvement over a HTIB... you might not even care for the difference so much despite what we say, so auditioning is really important.

As far as remodeling the room, maybe some others will have better information than I do.

[Clive]

What I like about this is that someone here is building a room to fit a system and not buying a system to fit a room I mean how lucky is that ;x(

Just to echo what gd has said that it is very highly recomended that you visit a couple of "real" HT/electronic stores and get a sense of what it would take to have a true hardcore system setup. Yes we'er talk separates here, system comprised of the layout of the above poster (gd).

When you have visited and narrowed down some choices bring it back here for some views and further recommendations then we are gonna help you get this all hooked up.

What have you thought about so far?

[kahf]

Thanks clive for the compliment

well I have no idea since im new to this whole thing
BUT if you give me ur recommendations, ID have no problem getting it
Tell me what's good in abt a budget of 4500-5500 $

Also I need some good advice abt how to make a optimum theater room
im attaching a well somewhat sorta floor plan for the basement, in which im planning to build.
so it be gr8 if i get some help.

[Clive]

Sorry for the late response. I've been really busy lately.

For suggestions I would look at some Rotel gear, speakers ie > DEf techs/paradigm/B&Ws.

Front projector > Hitachi, Panasonic, In-focus. Of course you gonna need a screen, talk to doug about cables at the CATs cable forum.

Another suggestion would be to throw the details of the building part of the HT in "Spaced OUT" start a new thread.

We will help you to narrow things down and put them all together here. You'll need to choose your speakers. Remember hardwood flooring vs carpeted (recommended) will make the sound from your speakers sound different. Hardwood flooring is the one hardest to control. It causes the room to become too "alive" and creates anomalies.

Based on your speaker choice you will need to decide on a receiver to drive them. When you were auditioning the speakers you would have noticed the amp or receiver that was used to drive them. Try to match that as closely as possible to get the same results at home.

DVD players and so on can be decided based on the newest technology and a little research we will address that later.

Back to speakers
As you may know that for a complete surround sound system you will need minimum 5 speakers plus a powered Subwoofer = 5.1
Of course you could go with a 6.1 system.

We can deal with speaker placement and sound adjustments later.

So go ahead a start auditioning speakers and receivers.

[kahf]

thanks for the advice Clive.

Iv been doing some searching, so ive decided for Martin Logan Speakers
they have this amazing "Abyass" subwoofer.
im gonna go for "Cinema i" as the center channel..
and "Fresco" for my "L/R n LS/RS"

as for the AMP, ive considered DENON AVR-2807 A/V reciever.

can u kindly giv theese componets a chk.
since i can not try them out cuz in Pakistan v dun have their dealers, I'd have to go to Dubai, in order to get them. But that shou;dn't be a prob.
once i hav the word that all is well matched, then I can go n buy 'em out

as for the room, i was planni somehting different, ceramic tiles.
but even if I do make the florr out ov thoose, will it be good if I use rugs and dun get it all carpeted?

and can u think ov some good design for the theater room, also some good interior designs

latterzzz

[aud19]

Ceramic tiles will make your room sound VERY bright and are not recommended for a AV room.

Based on your speaker choice (Martin Logans are very nice :T ) you may want to add a seperate amplifier as Martin logan's tend to be very power hungry. The 2807 might be strained when playing at louder volumes.

Being that you're doing this room from scratch, is there any chance of finding an AV custom installer in your area? They could go a long way in helping you find and audition the right gear for you as well as help you with the room size, materials and acoustics.

[aud19]

Here's a CEDIA listed company in Abu Dhabi that could go a long way towards helping you.

Federal Technologies
Member since 2002
Address Ste. # 015, Al Sayegh Tower
Hamdan Street, PO Box 43845
Abu Dhabi 43845
United Arab Emirates
Phone 00971-2-6333721
Fax 00971-2-6333026

Web http://www.cedia.org/homeowners/log_...www.fedtec.net

Description Designer/Installer of high quality home entertainment, Multi Purpose Media Room, Central Music System, Business Electronic System, Entertainment Venues & Garden,Architectual Applications and Commercial Cinema Theater.

Brands Sold M&K, Adcom, Audipack, Da-lite screens, Crestron, Panasonic, Fujitsu, Orion, Marantz Professional, Russound, Extron, QSC, Martin, etc.....

Categories Acoustical Design, Audio / Video, Home Automation / Systems Integration / Home Networking, Home Theater, Lighting Control, Motorized Window Treatments / Home Theater Curtains, Multi-Room Audio, Multi-Room Video

...and one from Bahrain

Custom Home Electronics
Member since 2006
Address PO Box 564
Hamilton, NSW 2303
Bahrain
Phone 612 4962 1490
Fax 612 4961 2210
Email Send email

..and 3 from Saudi Arabia

Audio Video Corner
Member since 1998
Address Madina Road
Mossadiya Plaza, units16,17,18
Jeddah, Jeddah
Saudi Arabia
Phone +966 2 284 2454
Fax +966 2 284 4241
Email Send email
Web http://www.cedia.org/homeowners/log_...ideocorner.com
Description Audio Video Corner (AVC) is a specialized company in home theater and Audio Video field, from design to installation. We have the largest showroom for custom installations in Riyadh and Jeddah. We carry a large range of companies and we can provide turn key projects
Brands Sold Da Lite, SIM, Lexicon, Liberty Cable , Marantz ,M&K ,Polk Audio ,Berkline Seating ,Elan Home Systems ,Rane ,Vampire Cable,Knoll Systems, Sherboun, Inca, DVDO, Sanyo, Sound Advance, Stealth, Phillips, Custom Carpet and many others
Categories Audio / Video, Home Theater, Lighting Control, Motorized Window Treatments / Home Theater Curtains, Multi-Room Audio, Multi-Room Controls, Multi-Room Video, Wire and Cable / Power Management

Audio Video Corner
Member since 1998
Address PO Box 16428
Takhasusy Street
Riyadh, RY 11464
Saudi Arabia
Phone (+966) 1 - 416 2230
Fax (+966) 1 - 416 2308
Email Send email
Web http://www.cedia.org/homeowners/log_...ideocorner.com
Description Audio Video Corner (AVC) is a specialized company in home theater and Audio Video field, from design to installation. We have the largest showroom for custom installations in Riyadh and Jeddah. We carry a large range of companies and we can provide turn key projects
Brands Sold Da Lite, SIM, Lexicon, Liberty Cable , Marantz ,M&K ,Polk Audio ,Berkline Seating ,Elan Home Systems ,Rane ,Vampire Cable,Knoll Systems, Sherboun, Inca, DVDO, Sanyo, Sound Advance, Stealth, Phillips, Custom Carpet and many others
Categories Audio / Video, Home Theater, Lighting Control, Motorized Window Treatments / Home Theater Curtains, Multi-Room Audio, Multi-Room Controls, Multi-Room Video, Wire and Cable / Power Management

Khaldi Est.
Member since 1998
Address PO Box 3475
Riyadh 11471
Saudi Arabia
Phone 01 442 0374
Fax 01 442 0379
Email Send email
Web http://www.cedia.org/homeowners/log_...khaldi-est.com
Description Design, supply and installation of low current systems (Home Theater- Audio Visual- Security-CCTV- NCS- MATV/SMATV- Telephone- Fire Alarm-Lighting)

[kahf]

loads ov thanks aud19
im certinly visiting them in summers

Clive sadly none available here, but one in another city I heard, but really don't know what they deal in.
2807 had i think 110 Watt/ channel.
well if u say this is less, can u recommend me some?
cuz I chkd out Harman Kardon, n the one they had was xpensive ($3000 +) and had around 90-100/channel.

well im doing it frm scratch, and owing to the place i live, seems like Id hav to go about with the best advice I can get.
so tell me details on flooring and room size and decoraiton(as in soofas good for sound or not..etc)

i posted a scrap with my floor plan in the "spaced out" but never got any serious replies. as for this one, im glad you all are very helpful

also which is better a room of same size, with less sofas(1-2) and more free space, or the same room, occoupied with a decent # of sofas and less free space?

[aud19]

also which is better a room of same size, with less sofas(1-2) and more free space, or the same room, occoupied with a decent # of sofas and less free space?

More sofa's is generally better as it will help diffuse and break-up reflections/echoes but you also have to be able to walk around the room Also stuffing a seat in to every possible corner won't give those people the best picture or sound in a lot of cases.

As for the room size, basically you don't want any of the dimensions divisible by eachother. Right now you've got a 20' x 25' x 10' high room. So you'll either want to change the 10' or 20' measurement as they're divisible. I'd recommend changing the 20' dimension slightly as you'll want as much height as possible if you plan on doing more than one row of seating with a riser for the second (and third etc) row.

As for the receiver, most "mass market" companies don't rate their amps entirely accurately. That Denon "110 WPC" is likely closer to 75-90 WPC all channels driven with a full spectrum audio signal. I think to get a better idea of what to recommend to you, we'll need a better idea of what equipment budget you had in mind.

[kahf]

thanks for the info aud19

well since i dun want a crowd to be in there, just good close friends and family, so iv decided to not have steps, since i want it to be more comfy and casual, with a good decent sofa sets and side tables etc.

so do I still have to raise my ceiling height?
also, i plan to have the viewing screen on the 20' side, so that the room is more of rectangle and longer at the end i.e 25' in depth
what do u say for that?

and for the floor, hardwood is recommended rytte?
can u give me some pics of well designed HTz?
I googled for it, but cound't get what i was lookin for

as for my budget.. well for the amp, i can spare around 2000$
and if i pusha nit max to another 300$.. so well take it as 2300$

is it adequate?

[aud19]

If you can fit it in to your budget, I'd recommend one of the receivers from the likes of Marantz/Harmon Kardon plus a sperate amplifier...or if you can stretch the budget maybe Adcom (from the list of products available from the companies I posted above).

If you plan to sit more than four or five people you're likely going to need at least a second row of seating and you'll want it raised.

Hardwood would be recommended above tile but you'll at the very least need a throw rug to minimize refelections from the floor. Carpet is really the best floor for a theatre.