Is an 803/4/5 setup too large for my room?

[jazzyjez]

I'd like to receive some comments from all of you experienced B&W owners on my need for a new 5.1 speaker setup for my "media room". Firstly, this room is above the garage and so is somewhat smaller (hence the quotes) than many I've read about here -- W12ft x L25ft x H8ft, and with 45 degree slopes to the side walls above the 5ft point. My current stereo setup has the speakers at one end, about 10ft apart, and my normal listening position is about 10~12ft back (so there's quite a bit of space behind me).

Initially I'd looked at a 703 front/705 rear setup; I did manage to audition a pair of 703s in a stereo setup and I liked what I heard even if they were perhaps a little bright. Then I started thinking that this is going to have to last me for a good many years, so perhaps I should move up a notch… so I'm now thinking about an 804S/805S setup (plus center and sub).

What's it going to be used for: well it is a media room, so movies definitely – but I'd like to start listening to some 5.1 music too. Stereo is still very important to me also, so in the end, I'd have to say that musical considerations would trump movie ones.

So should I go for the 800 series or stay with the more modest 700 series considering the room size? Would anyone even suggest going up to using a pair of 803S for the front? I don't have an infinite budget and the extra money isn't trivial, but equally I don't want to be thinking a year from now that I should have "gone for it". I want the speakers to be the anchor onto which I'll then build the other components. (I still have a set of Tannoys that I bought almost 30 years ago, so I really do like to buy things that will last!)

Onto the question of rears: this will be my first venture into 5.1 and I'm a little uncertain about the merits or otherwise of using dipole type speakers for the rears, especially as there's no wall immediately behind my listening position. I realize that I've only mentioned direct speakers in the above, but should I also consider dipoles? B&W also have these in their product range so presumably they're a valid choice in some situations.

By the way, I've enjoyed browsing this forum from time-to-time over the last few months and so decided to join today. Thanks for any advice.

[RobP]

Welcome to the forum Jazzyjez :later:

IMO, the 803's would be fine for that room, my 803's are in a room that is only a foot wider than yours and I am very happy with them, now my walls do not angle in at the top like yours, which will present some challenges to any speaker you choose, but with some creative acoustical treatment you can make it the best it can be.
If your end goal is to own a pair of 803's, then I would just splurge, upgraditis gets really expensive in the long run.

[RebelMan]

Anyone considering a balanced 2.0 and 5.1 system needs to consider the 800 Series over the 700 Series. Too many compromises are necessarily incurred with the latter series which comes with a built in "either or" factor. Either it's music or movies for optimized performance. The former series is free from restrictions or compromises.

If music matters to you or there is a potential that it will the FST based 804/803 models are highly recommended. The 805 makes concessions with vocals and dialog and is the recommended choice when funds are limited or spatial constraints are unavoidable. Any of the 80xS models you quoted will work well in your space as I see no room deterrents.

To preserve your investment over the long run I would recommend the 803S over the others but you would also need the HTM3S to go along with it which will impact your budget. If this is a concern then you should consider the 804S in lieu or stick to the 805S and companion HTM4S instead.

The only case for dipoles, nowadays, is when your back is (literally) up against the wall. Today's media is mixed and master with full range point source (monopole) speakers in mind. If you have the back space (it seems that you do) to accommodate surrounds and/or rear surround(s) then monopoles like the SCMS should be your primary consideration.

[Briz vegas]

Welcome pilgrim

I would not be overly concerned with the room size. Bass can be a problem in cubic rooms or rooms that are a mulitiple of a cubic room - ie 3m x 3m x 6m. Your oddly shaped room may actually help in that regard - you will need to do a home demo to find out for sure.

You will find incremental improvements from 703 to 803s. Going 800 series makes the choice of a center speaker easier (read about the HTM7 elsewhere -although I use it and I have no problems for 90% of movies - although the occasional panning vocals on LOTR from left speaker to center speaker sounded crap).

From your reaction to the 703 I would say 800 series with the right amp is the way to go. If this is a "one off" spend (with budget limits) then I would suggest going 804s and getting the right amp so that your system is more balanced (I love my CJ with HT bypass for the movies - very natural sounding amp that stopped me thinking in terms of "bright" or "dark" it does a great job of getting out the way of the music - McIntosh or Classe are the favourites round here - more so McIntosh)

Basically you need to budget for speakers, amp, source, interconnect, speaker cables and some room treatment (most I have seen have been DIY). Just getting 803S and keeping an old receiver will just emphasis the limitations of that receiver. I know because I originally thought I could get away with just the speakers but soon got frustrated as I knew the speakers could sound so much better.

For multi-channel music I would strongly consider 805 all round, unless you can spring for 804s or better all round - then there is the amplification etc.
I would want to be sure that multi-channel music is really my thing before making a buying decision - I'm glad I focused my money on the front end - but that is my taste.

[BassThatHz]

I used to have my system in a loft W12ft x L35ft x H7ft with slopes to 4ft.

It sounded horrible projected length wise, bass was boxy and the reflections off the side walls ruined the soundstage width. I found that width-wise was the best sacrifice at the time, depth is more of an illusion of driver transparency, width is not so much... Your results may vary.

What are you planning to power your speakers with?

If you plan on keeping them for a long time, it is best just to save up a bit and go for the 803 or 804. If you ever get listen to the 80X's you'll probably never wanna go back down the line.

The center channel is the most important speaker for movies, the 703 doesn't have a matching center (music only) it's the odd-ball out; if budget is tight running a phantom center with 804's might be better in the short term, until you can get an FST 800 center.

I find that rear channels are rarely important unless you like horror films and in particular, enjoy being surprised from behind in the dark; other than that and the odd flyby, they just sit idle...

[jazzyjez]

Thanks to all for the welcome and the very informative replies. It's actually quite a relief to hear that I'd not been completely "barking up the wrong tree"! I'm also quite pleased that the consensus is to go up to the 800 series -- if spending even more money can ever be viewed as pleasant -- but my heart was certainly telling me to go this way, and the concerns on compromise between music and movies are relevant to my situation.

That was also a very interesting point about today's mixes being optimized for point sources; with your additional confirmation that dipoles are not best suited to my room layout anyway, that's put the question of that speaker type to rest.

So, having read, and re-read all your opinions, I think I will now have to strongly consider the 803S and HTM3S for the front and 805S on stands for the rears. It's going to be roughly twice the cost of my original plan, but I think it makes sense. I definitely don't want to suffer from "upgraditis" for a long time: even if the net cost wasn't too different, the political cost of changing something a year or so from now would be far, far higher!

We didn't discuss any subs yet, but if I were to go for the above configuration, would you choose the smaller ASW825? It still has a 300mm driver which I would have thought sufficient for this room.

As to powering this little lot, that's also still open to debate. Initially I plan to get this working with a "regular" receiver, a Yamaha RX-V3800. My strategy is that once everything is operational, including the video setup, I can then take my time to research and audition some more appropriate equipment, along the lines of those products referred to. (The Yamaha then has another home to go to.)

[Briz vegas]

Good plan to move beyond a receiver. I did not even consider 800 series till I had a power amp on the back of my receiver to drive the two mains. There is plenty of info on the web showing just how difficult a load the bigger 800 series present to an amplifier.

How are Yamaha with power these days I wonder. they had a reputation for high power ratings but they fell down running more than one channel.

[ShadowZA]

Jazzyjez, I concur wholeheartedly with Soundgravy and RebelMan in that a pair of 803S's and an HTM3S centre would be the perfect setup imho. As far as subs go, the ASW825 should also be the perfect companion. Without wanting to encourage you to part with too much your hard earned $, my take on this is that it would be better to go for this speaker setup and wait a little while longer (whilst saving up) for the better electronics. There's also a lot of fun to be had in researching suitable electronic hardware components.

Good luck and it would be great to see some pics of your new 800 series speakers once you've bought them & set them up. :T