Cable questions???

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  • Race Car Driver
    Super Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 1537

    Cable questions???

    Ok, so maybe everybody knows these answers, but im unsure, so I will ask.

    Are Sub and RCA cables different? Could one use a regular length rca cable for the sub cable, and why/whynot?

    Digital coax... from my understanding it preforms the same funtction as optical.. but what is that function is....??

    Will a single digital coax from say a dvd player provide the same signal as the Fronts, surrounds, center and channel output?? My DVD player has both, and im a little confused.
    The manual says to use digital for dolby digital, DTS, or mpeg decoder..
    Then the 6 channel descrete out jacks are said to be used for SACD and DVDA..

    Could I just use a single digital coax for everything? And if so, would I want to?

    Thanks
    Chris
    B&W
  • locomk
    Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 91

    #2
    high resolution audio such as DVDA and SACD has too much bandwidth for a fiber optic or digital coaxial cable to transmit the signal, and that's why you have to hook up six analog cables to use dvda/sacd. optical and digital coax works with everything else.

    optical and coax transmit the same type of signal, just in differnt ways (optical thru light, coax through electrical pulses). I personally cant tell one from another.

    you can use a regular rca cable for a sub with no problem, but a good sub cable usually is further shielded to get rid of any hum, and some brands of cable claim that the cable is engineered to only carry low frequencies.

    Comment

    • Race Car Driver
      Super Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 1537

      #3
      Ok, that makes sence,
      Is that 6 ch discrete out only for SACD and DVDA then? Will the DTS on the DVDs be sent through that connection also or would I need a digital cable for that? Thats kind of the way the manual makes it sound on the Yamaha DV-C6770

      Thanks again!
      B&W

      Comment

      • peterS
        Super Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 1038

        #4
        Originally posted by locomk
        high resolution audio such as DVDA and SACD has too much bandwidth for a fiber optic or digital coaxial cable to transmit the signal, and that's why you have to hook up six analog cables to use dvda/sacd. optical and digital coax works with everything else.

        optical and coax transmit the same type of signal, just in differnt ways (optical thru light, coax through electrical pulses). I personally cant tell one from another.

        you can use a regular rca cable for a sub with no problem, but a good sub cable usually is further shielded to get rid of any hum, and some brands of cable claim that the cable is engineered to only carry low frequencies.
        :E that is WRONG
        sacd is fed out analog due to encryption.... dvd-a works fine going out digital
        in fact that is why dvd players have them

        digital coax vs toslink and whether to feed out digital or analog have both been answered recently in other threads better than i can summarize so you may want to search for it

        you should not use a video or digital coax as an audio cable or vice verse
        video has a coaxial arrangement (ie cable from the wall) and a 75 ohm impedance where as audio generally has a twisted pair (litz wire or what have you if high end) and strives to maintain the lowest impedance.... though i have seen some displays at radio shack that interchange these two principles! 8O

        some subwoofer cable includes a y splitter if the plate amp has stereo input for instance...i recall seeing some that have a drain wire for ground loop issues i assume but haven't looked into it

        the reason a sub cable would be for low frequencies only may be due to larger gauge wire (skin affect) and noise rejection geometries that create inductance

        Comment

        • Race Car Driver
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 1537

          #5
          Ok, I really dont care about the digital coax/optical argument, thats could go either way. I guess i was just questioning why one would have to use 6ch vs digital.

          But you both say that for SACD, I have to use the 6ch out, and that makes sence, for whatever reason ill let you two hash it out.

          But thanks to both for the replies.
          Looks like there is no reason to use digital coax/opticle.
          B&W

          Comment

          • peterS
            Super Senior Member
            • Dec 2005
            • 1038

            #6
            if the dacs are better on the reciever use digital
            for most people that is the case
            it is also pointless to go analog in if the reciever converts it to digital anyways
            imo a good silver digital coax is the way to go
            i feed analog out because i have to (ie no dac in the chain) sice i only use a stereo preamp and amp
            if and when i get a behrenger x/o i will try for my self if i can notice a difference but i will be forced to go analog out for sacd regarless

            Comment

            • Lex
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Apr 2001
              • 27461

              #7
              To continue what Peter said. Technically, a 75 ohm digital coax, will carry the analog signal as 1 of 6 cables for DVD Audio or SACD. However, also as Peter said, it is not optimized for that transmission. digital coax, or 75 ohm RCA video cable has both a wire and foil shield most always as part of it's construction. Without getting to involved here in the different ways to wire up cables, let's just say that foil is not optimized for analog audio. therefore, the best shielded cables for audio are not 75 ohm, rather more like 50 ohm, and lack a foil shield. They may have a wire mesh shield, or be unshielded for best sound.
              Doug
              "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

              Comment

              • audioqueso
                Super Senior Member
                • Nov 2004
                • 1930

                #8
                New Resolution Audio

                Something Peter said made me curious.
                "...high resolution audio such as DVDA and SACD has too much bandwidth for a fiber optic or digital coaxial cable to transmit the signal..."

                I don't mean to be the second one to correct you, but unfortunately that is incorrect. The bandwidth fiber can provide FAR FAR exceeds the amount of bandwidth any number of copper can provide.

                However, there's a point to this correction. Perhaps Lex can answer this as his profession involves fiber and coax more with the audio world than with my field. With media storage capability advancing more and more, the higher audio and video resolution we make available. HD-DVD and BlueRay are surely going to create an elite audio source (such as SACD and A-DVD tried to do). When we get to that point, would it not benefit the industry to make it digital connection only? Yes, there's their financial benefit, but I'm talking about the advancement of audio resolution. Having a source output digital only and having it use an advance processor. SACD uses the 6 different cables for discretenesss. Allow the signal to be decoded at the source to obtain the purest signal possible, and have the pre-amp/av/whatever only perform as amplification, correct? So if it gets to the point where the bandwidth needed exceeds copper, do you feel they will limit the bandwidth or require more cables? Because where technology stands, we can exceed the bandwidth and make more money.

                My thought:
                -use the highest resolution obtainable
                -source must output via fiber due to bandwidth requirements exceeding copper
                -allow manufacture to sell player with advanced pre-amp/processor
                -and now we have a combo that will provide the highest resolution in the market

                As long as we use digital media (DVD/CD/etc), we're going to have to need a processor to decode. It can still be kept at it's purest form. There is no encryption needed in the fiber (TDM is just encoding). Encryption is in the data itself from the source, not in the media path. So why not create a combo that provides the highest resolution possible, and allow only the pre-amp to do the decoding to provide the purest signal possible? The industry would make more money as well.
                B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                Comment

                • Lex
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Apr 2001
                  • 27461

                  #9
                  The reason DVD Audio and SACD were made analog was so you would not have a digital copy equivilent to the "Master". It's the same principal as the new downloadable movies, that can't be written to DVD. What will they do with the new HD or blue ray? It's anybody's guess. But I am guessing they still will not want to give us full digital copies of the Master.
                  Doug
                  "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                  Comment

                  • audioqueso
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1930

                    #10
                    Interesting. I thought it was to keep the signal processed at the source, and keep the signal as pure as possible. Makes sense. Thanks for the info.
                    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                    Comment

                    • locomk
                      Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 91

                      #11
                      Originally posted by peterS
                      :E that is WRONG
                      sacd is fed out analog due to encryption.... dvd-a works fine going out digital
                      in fact that is why dvd players have them

                      yes, sacd's are encrypted and that's part of the reason that the signal cannot be fed thru digital coax or optical. most dvd players will downconvert a dvd-a signal so it works thru digital coax or optical, but if your actually using a dvd-a capable player that utilizes the advanced resolution, than the digital outputs will not transmit the signal.

                      Comment

                      • Race Car Driver
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 1537

                        #12
                        Ahh, there is a little downmix LED on the front of the DVD player. *shrug*

                        Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
                        B&W

                        Comment

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