dual sub setup.

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  • caleb
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2004
    • 514

    dual sub setup.

    Can anyone out there recomend the right way to set up two subs?

    Best placement - both at the front or one at the fronat & one at the back etc..

    When I set my speaker reference levels ( to 70dB) - do I set the one sub then the second - or both together?

    Interested in comments before I splash out for my second sub.
  • Karma
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 801

    #2
    HI caleb,
    I don't think there is a best way to adjust levels. I do both subs together and at the same time. You cannot get around the need to do it by ear for the final adjustments. An SPL meter will help you get in the ballpark but, overall, I don't think they are too useful for the average audiophile.

    In my experience, final adjustments take time to attain; weeks or months. Worse, different recordings will need different adjustments. I am a big advocate for remote controls for subs. That way one can easily make bass level adjustments on a per recording basis making the whole process painless.

    Sparky

    Comment

    • Shane Martin
      Super Senior Member
      • Apr 2001
      • 2852

      #3
      The best way to calibrate is with one sub first then the second. Placement gets tricky because of room modes and such. Some prefer the THX method whereby you put the subs on opposite walls with one 1/3rds the way down the other is 2/3rds the way down. Some prefer front placement while some prefer stacked in the corner. It really depends on your room.

      One thing is for sure though, if one sub is not getting you to the output levels you desire, then there is a good chance that you need to buy a better sub instead of more subs. If you buy yet another mediocre sub, you got 2 mediocre subs that are slightly louder. What is your current sub?
      When I set my speaker reference levels ( to 70dB) - do I set the one sub then the second - or both together?
      It should be 75 unless you use Avia which is 85.

      Comment

      • Snap
        Super Senior Member
        • Feb 2005
        • 1295

        #4
        I would have to agree with Shane. I would work with the 1 sub. If that did not do it for you then I would be selling that bad boy and getting another. But that is just me.
        The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.

        Comment

        • caleb
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2004
          • 514

          #5
          I have a B&W ASW 850.
          I have the chance to buy a Servo 15 at a killer price and just wanted to see how difficult they would be to integrate.
          Don't get me wrong - the B&W is a great sub, but that stomach rattling punch isn't there.

          Comment

          • Sonnie Parker
            • Jan 2002
            • 2858

            #6
            Not that it won't work but two subs of the same kind will be easier to integrate than two different subs. If you are going for two of the same subs and your room is symmetrical then your best bet will probably be placing them in the two front corners. This will load them better and give you more of that gut punch you are looking for. If your room is asymmetrical then stacking them in the same corner will most likely be better.

            Another suggestion is to make sure you have somewhat of a level response from your main listening position. If you have considerable peaks and valleys then you still may have a problem getting that gut punch. This is when moving them around a little one way or another can make a difference.

            Comment

            • caleb
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2004
              • 514

              #7
              Thanks Sonnie,
              I have a TAG AV 32DP which has TMREQ and this has certainly made a huge difference in getting rid of the fat and bloated bass that I used to have before it, but I'm still lacking something.

              Anyway - I splashed out yesterday and bought the Servo 15 - it only cost me R2500 (that's about US$385) - It was at a reposessed auction and I don't think there were many enthusiasts there ! !

              I will spend the next few days fiddling with it and report back.

              Comment

              • Pieter
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2005
                • 219

                #8
                Originally posted by caleb
                I splashed out yesterday and bought the Servo 15 - it only cost me R2500 (that's about US$385) - It was at a reposessed auction and I don't think there were many enthusiasts there ! !
                You call that "splashed out"? A cat dribbling spit on a plush carpet produces more "splash"

                Lucky bastard!

                Comment

                • Sonnie Parker
                  • Jan 2002
                  • 2858

                  #9
                  $385 wow!

                  You are one lucky dude indeed!

                  Several people have begin to use the Room EQ Wizard with the BFD... a very nice piece of software that John M. (formerly of TAG) actually created and has made available as a standalone free program.

                  Comment

                  • caleb
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 514

                    #10
                    I got round to installing and setting up the subs yesterday.

                    I first switched in the B&W and set the levels to 75Db as recomended in the TMREQ.

                    Then did the same to the Servo 15.

                    I played with positioning and found that the best was to have the B&W at the front just to the inside of the right hand front speaker, and to have the servo 15 at the back of the room about 1/3rd distance from the left hand wall.

                    I then did the room equalisation curves for each separately, and then switched in together.

                    Very interesting - when both subs were in circuit, there were some peak cancellations and fewer reinforcements which I managed to take out with the equalisation circuit.

                    Now what a difference I have - on music you hardly notice the sub being there - it just reinforces the low end.

                    But on movies, blimey I thought my nose was going to bleed on some of the explosions and on the VERY low frequencies you almost get shaken out of the chair.

                    This is probably the best value for money upgrade i have every done. ;x(

                    Hope that this review is interesting for all you out there contemplating using two subs.

                    Comment

                    • Sonnie Parker
                      • Jan 2002
                      • 2858

                      #11
                      Excellent! Glad you ended up being so well pleased with the results... and for the money I don't know how you could have done any better.

                      Two subs... yup... on the way for me! Try two SVS PB12-2/plus in 1800 cubic feet of extremely well sealed space. If those don't flip my gizards then I've got two HGS-15X sittin' on standby.

                      Great job on yours though! :T

                      Comment

                      • bsodmike
                        Junior Member
                        • Dec 2005
                        • 20

                        #12
                        This has crossed my mind and I may grab a second ASW675 and go with a dual sub setup. Right now I've calibrated it to 85db (on pinknoise) for that extra kick...

                        --Mike
                        Home Theatre: Apple Power Mac G5 Dual 2.7Ghz - Connected to an Apple Cinema HD Display 23-inch widescreen and a LG 42" Plasma TV | Denon AVR-3805 7.1 AV Receiver | Denon DVD-3910 DVD Player (Multi-Region + Denon Link 3rd Edition) | Rotel RB1080 (2x 200W) | Rotel RB1070 (2x130W, true bi-amping for centre) | Bowers & Wilkins LCR600 (center), DM602 S3 with 2x 3m Nordhost Solar Winds (fronts), DM601 S3 (surround), ASW675 (subwoofer) & QED cabling

                        Comment

                        • Chris D
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 16877

                          #13
                          I have dual SVS PC-Ultra subs. My Parasound C1 pre/pro has a 2nd output that doubles the main subwoofer output, so I just have the 2nd sub hooked up to that. They're both receiving identical signals.

                          I would set up both subs somewhere in the room fairly close to each other (i.e. if you put them in the front, put both in the front) but NOT symmetrical in the room. For example, both of my subs are in the center of the front of my room. However, one is a couple inches left of center, and the other is about 2 feet right of center. If I had placed both of them symmetrically equal distance from center, they would have created a lot more peaks and nodes in the room. Many of them would have been right down the centerline of the room, too, where primary seating locations are.

                          As for calibration, intuitively it really seems to me that you need to calibrate BOTH at the same time. If you calibrate one at a time, what would you do... calibrate each to half of reference volume levels? That's not quite necessarily going to add to reference volume at all frequencies.

                          I would say calibrate BOTH at the same time to a general reference volume level. Then if you want to get advanced, add a BFD, which can control two subwoofers, and equalize both to flat graphs. (at least at the primary seating point)
                          CHRIS

                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                          - Pleasantville

                          Comment

                          • Nick M
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 5959

                            #14
                            Co-locate them for the easiest setup, or put them on opposite sides of the room if you are getting any directionality (this is kinda what I did).

                            Turning only one on at a time, calibrate each to your reference point. Then turn both on and adjust the phase control (if you have it) on one sub until your SPL meter registers it's highest reading. Then you can adjust the level in your pre/pro or receiver back to your reference level. This will give you that "headroom" that makes the big blasts unforgettable. Having continuous phase adjustment like my SVS tubes have makes this step much more precise than the common 180/0 phase toggle.

                            I second the BFD recommendation, or Velodyne's new stand-alone setup for room equalization. This piece makes a huge difference to the quality of sound.
                            ~Nick

                            Comment

                            • RebelMan
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3139

                              #15
                              I thought about starting a new thread but this one seems too close to my inquiry. I have one sub and I am considering adding another one but I just don't have room up front nor do I have any room along the front sides. I have considered the possiblilty of doing away with my sub altogether and my current LR mains for a couple of "much" larger LR speakers.

                              Wether I do that or not is still up in the air. Until I make a decision on that, the only other possiblity would be to situate one or two subs three feet behind the primary listening position. I am not looking for detailed resolution like one might need for music playback. I just want clean bass "feel" for HT effects. What do you think? Anyone try this arrangement before? Were the results better, worse or about the same as placing them up front?

                              Caleb I see that you experimented with one sub in the front AND the back. Did you try just one or both in the back at anytime?
                              "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                              Comment

                              • georgev
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2004
                                • 365

                                #16
                                Congrats Caleb.
                                Just came across this thread. The servo 15 is awesome and you really got a great deal.
                                Your movie watching will not be the same.
                                Enjoy and have a wonderful new year.
                                I placed both my Servo 15's in the front. One in each corner behind the 802' and they arte great.
                                George.

                                Comment

                                • armyscout43
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 8

                                  #17
                                  Subs

                                  IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE TWO SUBS, LIKE SOME OF THE ADVISORS SAID,TWO SUBS IN THE FRONT IN CONJUNCTION WITH YOUR FRONT TOWERS OR LOUDSPEAKERS. SAME TYPE OF SUBS IS RECOMMENED BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BALANCE PROPER EQUALIZATION...

                                  THE TWO REAR SPEAKERS ON THE 7.1 SET UP PRODUCES LOW FREQUENCY DEFLECTION ALSO...adding additional subs in the back unless it's in the corners will offset balance and room equalization.
                                  If you were to invest in 4 subs, that's a different case, you can then place two up front corners and two on rear corners....such set ups are used on more advanced custom made home theater setups.

                                  It's ok to have two different brands as long as the type of drivers are similar in size and performance. Remember sound is based on the listener's satisfaction, not the ideal desire of an observer. There are the same brand types and there are the mix all the brands type.
                                  If you notice HIGH END AUDIOPHILES, they use brands according to which companies specializes in certain products.
                                  For example, some would use krell amps, use martin logans for fronts, magnepans for rears and SVS, earthquake for subs or carver sunfire for amps, receivers and subs, using soundlabs or B&W's for fronts and say,
                                  martin logan's for rear or KLIPSCH or any bipolar/dipolar or omnidirectional design such elac or anthony gallos for example.

                                  <deleted by Admin>

                                  peavey kosmos and BBE sonic maximzers w/subharmonic control are the two
                                  sound processors you might consider....
                                  APHEX AUREL EXCITER 204 IS ANOTHER but you have to get male 1/4 inch plug to RCA female adapter cables to make it work for home use...it doesn't come supplied with those cable adapters...it's standard DJ or professional 1/4 in female connectors and XLR...
                                  using dakiom feedback stablizers HR 103 AND THE NEWER HR203 will make your system so clean and bass so tight and clean...you would think you added ten's of thousands dollars more to your system...
                                  www.dakiom.com I HIGHLY RECOMMEND along with the THREE BASS SOUND PROCESSORS I MENTIONED...
                                  IF YOU LIKE TO ALSO IMPROVE YOUR SURROUND SOUND, an acoustic research tds 202 spatial enhancer or a carver sonic holography will greatly improve your surround sound or 3 dimensionallity.

                                  <promotional blurb deleted by admin>

                                  armyscout43 :E

                                  Comment

                                  • MrPorterhouse
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Dec 2005
                                    • 8

                                    #18
                                    I run Dual subs. I've got two Cerwin Vega LW-15's. I also have Cerwin Vega LS-12 mains, which extend fairly low and produce great bass on their own, but even such, if you put value on Home Theater, then a subwoofer is necessary. I locate my subs up front and on either side of my tv, which is also not far from the corners(pretty narrow room at 11.5ft). I actually use the subs as speaker stands for my mains, so there is never any fear of locality of low frequencies. This type of setup is NOT typically recommended, but I have no other good alternative, and it works well in my room. In fact running dual subs has helped to even out the frequency response a bit. It has created some new modes, but has solved more problems then it created. I have a huge spike at 45Hz, so EQ would easily take care of that. Overall, I would recommend dual subs if you need more SPL and a better FR curve.

                                    Comment

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