Sub Placement and multiple subs (graphs)

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  • vinceb
    Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 55

    Sub Placement and multiple subs (graphs)

    After reconnecting my HE15 I have done a little experimentation with different placements and found that there is a lot to gain in my room from separating the subs. I found good interesting information on the web, specifically Nousaine's work on multiple subs and even better the Harman paper. My quick findings are totally contrary to Nousaine's which I think is a factor of the room he was in - his result that corner placement yields better sub-bass did not hold true at all in my room, which is 18'10" x 13' x 8'. I took measurements (mike 37" high) in four locations which are 129" from the screen wall and (in order of measurement) 78", 104", 51", 23" from the left wall, 78" being my favorite spot to sit. I found nearly the exact same subsonic response, and much smoother unequalized response (and better sound) from 10-100hz with spread placement, which is one sub in the front left corner (he15), one further to the right on the screen wall 92" from left corner pointed right, and one on the right wall about 58" back from the screen wall with the woofer pointed to the right. Interestingly, pointing the woofers on the two 'portable' subs to the side made a noticeable difference in earlier tests, removing sizeable nulls that were present. This may be due to moving the acoustic center of the woofer closer to the boundary, anyway I was/am very surprised that it made such a difference.



    All the subs in corner, locations in 1-4 order (see distance above in text). Primary listening position is number 1. Looks cool but the penalty in sound is high. The huge null around 36hz is probably the reason that I perceive bad bass response at my seat. Curve two does actually have better subsonic, supporting the idea that Nousaine's result had to do with HIS room, and cannot be generalized to all small rooms.




    HE15 in corner, subs spread out. Note overall smoother response esp in 35hz - 65hz range. In experimenting I found that the movement of the 'portable' subs had a profound impact on nulls, and small adjustments like the turning the sub sideways was measurably significant. The graphs show several nulls but notice that they are less severe (narrower or less magnitude) and so seem to have less impact on the sound. I'm sure this is audible with the right material but the null at 36hz in the first graph is very audible.




    Average of all subs in corner, bad hump in 35-65hz region.




    Relatively small null at 50hz is much less offensive than corner stack. Subjective bass in room is much better with low transients much more defined. Pressure in low bass is evident whereas the corner stack was lacking. Measurement-wise it appears okay, but in listening it felt like being in a null. Another excellent result of this is that while taking measurements I noticed reduced boominess around the rear wall where the pc is, and generally smoother bass around the room, less boomy at boundaries and also less excitation of dishes in the kitchen and just resonances in adjoining rooms. This is cool because there seems to be more bass in the listening room, and less in the other rooms. Weird and cool.
  • Martijn_H
    Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 33

    #2
    Did you play with the phase of the subwoofers? You should be able to achieve a flatter basrespons with every sub a little out of phase.

    Did you also randomize the location of the subs in your room according to the geddes way?

    Comment

    • ---k---
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Nov 2005
      • 5204

      #3
      I'm assuming that all of your measurements were taken from the same location. You should consider repeating the measurements withe the mic in several positions around your seating position. I found that 12" in either direction of my seat yields very different results. I think the average of them is more correct.
      - Ryan

      CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
      CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
      CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

      Comment

      • vinceb
        Member
        • Apr 2005
        • 55

        #4
        I haven't stumbled on the geddes thing, I worked my way through arrangements I could live with until I found one that was dramatically better. I don't have a way to make small phase changes although it is very interesting. I tried reversing one of the subs and it made a big (negative) difference.

        Actually the first two graphs are at four locations 129" from the screen wall and (in order of measurement) 78", 104", 51", 23" from the left wall, 78" being my favorite spot to sit, the others being current seats or spots I wanted to test to see how they were. The last two are the average over those same spots, one average for all corner and one for distributed placement of subs. The 129" is really the spot that we naturally want our seats so I didn't go overboard with front to back variations. Bass is SO much better in the whole room now it's very gratifying for all the work, I'm finally satisfied with the placement in that I can get good pressure at the seats and not move around the room into better spots and wish it sounded like that at the seats.

        I'm not sure the graphs tell the whole story but the intermediate ones (some of which were lost due to the software crashing) helped a lot to rule out spots due to really bad nulls that were clearly audible during sweeps. Some practice with the testing sweeps and you can tell when it's generally better or worse due to boomy peaks you can just hear.

        Comment

        • vinceb
          Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 55

          #5
          I found some posts by Dr. Geddes on AVS and it seems to be exactly what I've been learning, he mentions that below 50hz it is not important where the sub is and he uses a separate sub for this range, then multiple subs between 50hz and his mains. Very interesting, the finding of mine that the sub-bass is the same seems to be held up, although I saw response issues a bit lower than 50hz that are audibly improved by my new layout.

          I did a visio sketch to help visualize the layout. When I get it a bit more complete it will also come in handy if/when things get moved around as a reference. The measured locations are the colored numbers and correspond to the colors/numbers of the graphs.
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10933

            #6

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

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