Toshiba comfirms: No HD via Component outs on HD DVD

[Shane Martin]

Analogue outs will be downrezzed.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds22406.html

The fear that many people had came true. No word on upscaling.

As far as the audio is concerned, you can use the decoder on the player and feed 6 analog outs to your receiver/pre pro until you purchase an HDMI equipped Decoder. I don't think we'll see those until way after HD DVD hits unless there are some surprises as Cedia in September.

Blu ray hasn't announced anything but it's widely speculated that they are in the same boat.

[David Meek]

Why don't we have a "flipping the bird" icon? I REALLY need one right now. Grrrrr.

You early-on put down your hard-earned $6K for a hi-def television and then the industry you are directly and visibly supporting changes their tune and basically tosses your investment out the door. Double grrrrrr.

I'm not surprised by this announcement based on the reluctance to have any of the other hi-def formats output via component, but it just chaps my a**, again.

[Shane Martin]

David we have :2fingers:

[David Meek]

Wellllllll, in that case:


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[George Bellefontaine]

Okay, I'll throw in one more... :2fingers:

[aud19]

I concur with you fine gentlemen.... :F :321: :2fingers:

[Kevin P]

Boycott anyone!? No one should buy into these new formats until Hollywood gets their heads out of their a$$e$ and gives us a format we can actually use with our current equipment. It's a flippin' movie for crying out loud, not top secret military information, there's no need to go to such extremes to keep it encrypted.

Pirates are going to pirate the stuff no matter what they do. This is only about restricting fair use of the media and equipment we spend our hard earned money on.

I for one will not buy into either format (HD DVD or Blu-Ray) until someone offers one that outputs via component video.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: :F to the equipment manufacturers that give into Hollywood's demands. :F to the legislators who pass laws that benefit greedy corporate demands at the expense of the consumer. :F to the MPAA and RIAA members for being so power hungry and anti-consumer. And a few more in case I missed anyone: :F :F :F

(I never thought I'd see a legitimate use for that smiley outside of TTP!)

[aud19]

I was already planning on boycotting, this just makes that decision even easier And I even have a DVI input on my TV! I do however KNOW that's it's idiotic and completely unfair to screw all the early-adopters who spent huge amounts of money to help get these displays to the quality and price points that we all enjoy today!

[Shane Martin]

The #'s do no favor the early adopters. According to many reports, the #'s are only about 3-4 million folks total with another 40 million HDCP owners. Why not release a format this way if they want to?

I for one will not buy into either format (HD DVD or Blu-Ray) until someone offers one that outputs via component video

I guess you aren't buying an HD video format then. You could buy DTheater but good luck finding TAPES yes Tapes. it's a dead format.

The boycott that has been proposed won't have many legs to stand on before long. Too many people don't know what they are supporting, and too many of them will crumble once they see it in action. Enthusiasts are WEAK. They will break fairly quickly.
They'll break once they buy a HD-Video Game(Sony PS3 or Xbox360 which will at some point have HD-DVD soon).

It's too bad they are getting screwed but it's been known that HDCP was coming and what would happen and also when you jump in early on something there is a chance you get burned.

Betamax, Commodore, Intellivision, and computer users should be looking for apologies I guess

[Kevin P]

Actually, after my house fire I'm building my HT from scratch, and it will have DVI capability, but it's the principle of the thing that gets to me. That plus the challenge of doing longish runs of DVI to a projector or plasma. I know HDMI addresses some of these concerns but HDMI capable devices are still not in the mainstream, especially receivers and processors, which are just starting to appear with HDMI switching.

I'm running component video to my plasma, and RGBHV to my CRT projector. I suppose I could pull a DVI cable to the plasma before the sheetrock goes up, but I'd need like a 30 foot cable. To run a DVI/HDMI to my projector location (in case I switch to a digital PJ down the road), I'd need about 70 feet. To get one of these "encrypted" signals into my CRT, I have to use an illegal device. It's only illegal because of bad anti-consumer laws that Hollywood purchased, but it's illegal nontheless.

Not only that, even if my displays were HDMI ready out of the box, the pre-pros I'm looking at aren't, as of yet. Only a few new receivers are starting to come out with HDMI so far.

P.S. Comcast HDTV cable boxes output HD via component video. I don't know if this will be turned off if/when they implement the "broadcast flag" or not (yet another bit of anti-consumer tripe that should have been killed in legislature).

[Shane Martin]

Kevin,

I'd need about 70 feet. To get one of these "encrypted" signals into my CRT, I have to use an illegal device

Or pay quite a bit for an Optical DVI cable.

Not only that, even if my displays were HDMI ready out of the box, the pre-pros I'm looking at aren't, as of yet. Only a few new receivers are starting to come out with HDMI so far

If you are worried about HDDVD Audio, then all you need is analog inputs on your receiver and use the analog outs of the dvd player using it as a decoder. Not ideal but it works. They also backwards compatible. FWIW, Arcam has a new semi affordable pre pro with HDMI. DD+ has already stated that they haven't liscenced a product yet to anyone until they see a working model out to consumers. Therefore we all will be using the decoder on the dvd player to start with.

P.S. Comcast HDTV cable boxes output HD via component video. I don't know if this will be turned off if/when they implement the "broadcast flag" or not (yet another bit of anti-consumer tripe that should have been killed in legislature).

The broadcast flag will only cause you not to be able to record whatever program. it doesn't affect output resolution.

[Kevin P]

I wonder if someone makes a device that converts DVI to a signal that can be carried over coax (RG59/RG6) and back. That would solve the distance issue as well as having to pull a DVI cable through the walls/floors/etc. Such a device would be legal since the signal can stay digital and encrypted, it would just be converted into a coax compatible digital signal and back.

Then if I have to use DVI/HDMI due to the encryption garbage, I could just use the coax I already ran for component video.

Of course, the whole thing with DVI is it was meant for use with computer displays, so it was never designed with long cable runs in mind. They should have gone with Firewire/5C instead of DVI, or a new format that works over regular coax.

The broadcast flag will only cause you not to be able to record whatever program. it doesn't affect output resolution.

But since the broadcast flag is implemented in HDCP, and HDCP also mandates downrezzing of analog outputs, I would think that the downrezzing or analog blocking would occur along with the broadcast flag, you know, to prevent "recording" from the analog outputs (not that anyone actually has a recording device that accepts analog HD, but I did say the restrictions are overdone).

[Shane Martin]

Would one of these do?

http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/dcda1.asp

[Kevin P]

Would one of these do?
http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...ideo/dcda1.asp

Actually, don't tell anyone this, but I have two of those already.

That's the "illegal" device I mentioned earlier, and I bet they won't be available much longer. I was told they stopped making them so when they're gone they're gone.

What I was talking about was a way to convert DVI to coax on one end, and back to DVI on the other end, to overcome the distance limitation and the need to run an expensive cable, without "violating" HDCP.

[aud19]

You could just run HDMI with a DVI adapter at either end....no?

[Lex]

Why 2 of them Kevin?

oh yeah, I'd support a ban, I have up converted via component to high def already which does a nice job. It really hacks me off they try to change the industry of cables, when Component is very capable and was the standard for video.

Doug

[Kevin P]

Why 2 of them Kevin?

It never hurts to have a spare, especially if the units become scarce in the future (due to bad legislation, but I digress). Also, with a plasma and a PJ, I might use both.

If I don't end up using one or both of them, I'll wait until they become highly sought after "black market" items, then sell it for a lot of $$$ :twisted:

You could just run HDMI with a DVI adapter at either end....no?

That won't overcome the distance limitation. You need HDMI all the way thru to get around the distance issue AFAIK.

[RebelMan]

Yeah, I agree that it is a real bummer that component video will not be supported. However, we will all eventually succumb to the the industry coerced standard to be (HDMI). Our insatiable appetite to experience the best (Home Theater) we can buy will drive us there (sooner than some would like to believe).

Once the early adopters begin to post their experiences, here at the Forum, the desire for others to follow suit will set in. I believe when the self proclaimed boycotters see what they are missing they will forget about their allegiance and fall victum to the "Gotta Have It" club.

I'll be looking forward to seeing you there!