Lost in the Woods

**Nick M** · 19 March 2005, 00:53 Saturday

It definetly appears you're putting a lot more cash into your display than your audio setup. Kind of like buying a Porsche 911T for your display and a Honda Accord for the audio. Its completely your preference, but I would shift some of those dollars towards your audio setup. Haven't heard an audio install that is all in the ceiling, but all I can imagine is a department store or elevator. :rofl:

You should try reading through some of the different sections of the forum and I'm sure some more experienced people with in-wall/ceiling speakers will give you better opinions on that area than I can. Depending on your listening habits, room size, layout, and expectations, I would definetly suggest using wall mounted monitors rather than in-ceiling/wall.

**Bent** · 19 March 2005, 02:01 Saturday

I too, if given the choice, would opt for wall mounts over in-walls, and would pick in-walls over "in ceiling" speakers.

I had contemplated in ceiling speakers for the left/right surrounds in my 7.1 rig, but got a smokin' deal on Paradigm ADP-370's in white for the job @ $700.00 CDN after taxes. :T

**Shane Martin** · 19 March 2005, 08:52 Saturday

1. I'd get a projector and a screen and forget the Plasma. Youd have a "theater-esque" sized screen(110 inches) for the same money as the "Cool" Plasma and no worrying about burn in with the Plasma. No sacrifice in quality by going with a PJ.

Take the cash you saved and put it towards an upgraded audio setup.

For a 5 disc changer, Yamaha is coming out with an HDMI equipped SACD/DVD audio changer model for $500 here soon. That would be a nice source. HDMI is important because it keeps the video in the digital domain which is important for your display.

Reciever: This really depends on what you are going to drive. The 3805 might be ok.. it might depending on how much power is needed. If you are going to stay with 5.1, then I'd go with either the Rotel 1056 or the NAD but if you plan on going 7.1 then the Denon might suffice, it might run out of juice. If so then you should consider external amplification

Speakers: I'd go with in wall over in ceiling. I've never liked the sound of in ceiling speakers. My favorite is Triad. Polk is good too. Then again I'd probably go towers or bookshelves on stands over in walls..

Remote: Depends on whether you want hard buttons or a touch screen. personal choice. I own a pronto myself though I admit it is a pita to program for me and I'm almost regretting it. You might have it programmed for you but the Harmony maybe the route I turn to..

Power conditioner: Monster/panamax are both good. I know they back their warranties.

**Andrew Pratt** · 19 March 2005, 10:19 Saturday

Before making some specific recomendations I'd like to know how imortant music is going to be to you? Given how much you have budgeted for the display I'd guess its not that important. I also strongly urge you not to go with in ceiling speakers if at all possible...esp. for the fronts. If you can do any of the install yourself or can pay someone to help you we could very likely save you a lot of money buying the gear though other vendors. Not to take anything away from the custom installers but they aren't typically known for passing deals along to the customers. For example I custom program pronto's as a side business and my rates are typically 1/3 that of a dealer's. Same goes for those speaker choices...NextLevelAV who's a forum sponsor here was able to give me a great price on the pinnacle inwalls that I'm using for my surround speakers so you might want to at least get a quote from them to guage the quote from the local guys. Also depending on how much TV you plan on watching vs movies I'd likely steer you away from the plasma as well. Plasma's are good for watching sports and TV shows on a larger screen then you are used to but movies IMO should be watched on a BIG screen and you'll only get that from a projector....unless you sit really close to a plasma

One option that many of us do is use a "regular" TV for watching TV on and then have a drop down screen for the projector. Given your budget you could likely get a motor driven screen, Projector and a decent 40" + RPTV for regular TV for about the same cost as the plasma.

**cvinci** · 19 March 2005, 21:09 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Ok thanks for all your replies.You guys make things so much easier for us non-educated. I visited two hi end shops today and here is my "revised" thinking:

Rotel 7.1
Rotel DVD single(will take advice on new Yamaha and check it out as originally wanted 5DVD/CD) and HDMI is definately needed.
Decided to go with towers up front with center and in rear ceiling and wall mounts.(any ideas to compliment the below would be very helpful)

Listened to Vandersteen, Quad, BM&W, and one other which name escapes me..I thought BM&W(704) and Vandersteen(1c) were best with the latter seeming to surround you more with sound. One dealer offering me 4 Vandersteen towers(somebody else told me not a good idea to use towers front and rear), rear walls, center, sub, 7.1 Rotel and Rotel DVD for $7000. Did not price out BM&W with same except for REL sub but I know towers were twice as much as Vandersteen. Incidently thought BM&W 704 sounded better than higher models. Any thoughts so far leaning towards Vandersteen fronts and center..Also so many saying SVS sub is best by far so will look into that.
I plan to use basement for viewing sports and movies but now I am being reminded of my earlier years when I scap up money to buy a good hi fi system. My first real purchase which I enjoyed for years through college. Been away from that good listening for a while.

Any suggestions to my new direction would be most helpful..I guess down to speaker selection now

**Nick M** · 19 March 2005, 22:53 Saturday

Uh-oh, he went and tasted some of the big boy audio stuff... :B :T

Just curious, you listed "Rotel 7.1". Did you listen to a receiver (big unit) or seperaters (2 seperate units, a pre/pro and an amp)? I use a Rotel amp in my setup (RMB-1075) and love it. Next time you visit you might want to ask to hear the difference between a receiver and seperates. Make sure you use the same speakers when listening to the difference between a receiver and seperates. Seperates cost more, but to me justify the quality in sound. If you do go with a receiver, I have heard Rotel and Yamaha units, both of which are great for Home Theater.

As far as playback quality is concerned, you will get the best audio/video with a dedicated single disc player. If you're simply looking for a multidisc player for background music when holding "get-togethers", you could probably just get a 300-400disc "jukebox" unit from a company like sony for around $350. Depending on your budget, Denon makes good single-disc universal players. They range in price from $700 to $3500. The $1200 DVD-3910 has good ratings. I own its predecessor the DVD-2900. I would definetly opt for a good single-disc player that will feed what appears to be a potentially expensive system with audio/video it deserves.

Listening to speakers is the best thing you can do. Pick what sounds best to you. If your main habits are movies/sports rather than focused stereo listening, you might want to simply consider high-quality bookshelf sized speakers for all 7 channels along with a good quality Sub. SVS does make good subs. I've heard one of their units, and plan to pick one up for myself this upcoming week to try in my room. You should also ask to hear the difference between direct-radiating and bipole surrounds. Most poeople have a preference.

Milk that hifi store for all its worth. Listen to everything in every combination. Make sure you bring music/movies you're familiar with too.

**cvinci** · 19 March 2005, 22:59 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

jaja..yes it seems i have already been bitten again by the high end bug..thxs for all recommendations..will go back to store again and refine my wish list.

**cvinci** · 19 March 2005, 23:00 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

sorry to answer you question was listening to Rotel without separates.

**Nick M** · 19 March 2005, 23:22 Saturday

Another thing you should post here are your room dimensions and what openings the room has (doorways, cathedral ceilings, large openings to other rooms, etc). What people recommend for a 10'x10' batcave will be much different than for a 30'x60' flat.

**cvinci** · 20 March 2005, 00:14 Sunday

Lost in the Woods Contd

ok basement room configuration: rectangle 35x25. supports down middle..sectional will be in front of supports on western side of room 2 feet from wall on short side. screen on wall in front about 12 feet away. drop ceiling 7.5 feet high. enter basement with staircase in southern end parallel to front of house. southwest corner is not normal 5x5 inward square sits in corner. eastern part of room sits fireplace with euro style cut-in kitchenette/bar. north east corner is sliders up to back yard. southeast corner is entrance to rest of basement.

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 March 2005, 09:04 Sunday

That's a big room to fill with sound! Given that there's a few things I think we should settle up on first and then move on from there. The subwoofer you will need is not going to be a rel or most other typical commercial product as to get one that would work in that room is going to be very expensive. So that makes that choice pretty easy in that you've now narrowed your options to a handful of online companies. The SVSubwoofer is likely your best bet in that regard...spending wisely here will have a significant impact on your movie watching...sorry bad pun I know

The other critical component will be your screen. I'd strongly suggest a projector and pull down screen for that room. Something like the Sanyo Z3 would be a great start given that seating distance and a Da-lite model B HCCV screen.

Your Rotel choice is a VERY good one...but then I'm biased on that

I'd recomend going with with RMB-1075 power amp and the RSX-1056 receiver as you're going to need some real power to fill that room properly. The 1056 isn't going to get the job done on its own and the 1067 is the same cost as the 1056 + 1075 so its not usually a wise choice...unless space is an issue. You can then reroute the receivers internal amps to power the back surround speakers which if you're leaning towards inceiling (in wall would be better) would be plenty of power.

So if we assume that's alright with you we've now spent approx. $5400!

Rotel 1075 $1000
Rotel 1056 $1300
Screen $200 (that's a base manual pull down screen...you can spend a lot more if you want for an electric model etc.)
Sanyo Z3 Projector $1800
SVS Subwoofer Just a suggested model..theres some nice cylinder models as well like this one $1100

That doesn't leave us a whole lot ($1600) for 7 speakers but given the subwoofer you've got now you don't need tower fronts which will ease the cost there. You could also go for the Sanyo Z2 instead of the Z3 and save $500 or so (Sanyo Z2). Actually I might recomend that anyway just to free up some capitol to put towards the speakers and DVD player.

**Nick M** · 20 March 2005, 09:32 Sunday

Andrew his budget is $11k-$12k.

I like Andrews recommendations. Along with a good DVD player you could grab a cheap music jukebox as I suggested for around $300. Given your budget though, I would consider the Rotel 1068/1075/1070 combo others have posted about here. That would get you into seperates, and really give some juice to your speakers in that big room. This combo would go for about $3400, or $3050 with the standard 10% discount dealers seem to give.

Rotel 7.1 Seperates Setup $3050
Denon DVD-3910 Universal Player $1200
400 Disc Sony CD Jukebox $300
SVS PC-Ultra Subwoofer (per Andrew) $1200
Sanyo Z3 Projector (per Andrew) $1800
92" Screen (per Andrew) $200

Total = $7750

This would leave you $4250 for 7 good bookshelf speakers, wall brackets/stands, cables, and wires. You could probably charge neighborhood kids admission too, and rival the local theaters... :B :T

Good Luck!

**cvinci** · 20 March 2005, 10:39 Sunday

Lost in the Woods Contd

thxs Andrew..actually my budget is 11-12 total..receiver is set Rotel..now why would 1056+1070 be better than 1067? SVS done for sure..need to decide on dvd/cd. what is thought on that? do i need to go SACD capability hdci etc..was going to go Rotel DVD and wait to add CD as well but what about new Yamaha 5 dvd/cd will that have latest features...Really liked Vandersteen sound yesterday at shop. What about towers up front and rears in ceiling and wall mounts for 7.1? recommend any ceilings to compliment 703/704 series and Vsm1 wall rears. Going to go back next week to a different shop to hear B&M again. read a lot last night and everyone saying how good this company is? But Vandersteen sounds seems more surrounding which i like..will re-check again..now on to video..you guys are killing with projection now..was going to go elite..how is quality of picture between projection vs plasma..any special considerations ie light etc?

you guys are the best..passionate comes to mind....

**David Meek** · 20 March 2005, 10:48 Sunday

Hi Charlie. Andrew and Nick are giving you good advice already, but I'd like to point out that with a room that size and if you can arrange it to your satisfaction, 4 Vandersteen towers would be a spectacular way to go - especially if you consider multi-channel SACD important. That way you have NO variation in the sound coming from the arrayed speakers, and you have full-bandwith capability all the way around, too. That would be an awesome set-up. :T

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 March 2005, 11:12 Sunday

thxs Andrew..actually my budget is 11-12 total..

Oops not sure where I got the $7K number from...must be another thread....that's good news then:T

receiver is set Rotel..now why would 1056+1070 be better than 1067?

The 1067 is a very nice receiver...but its still a receiver. The 1070 isn't what I suggested but the 1075. The 1070 is a 2 channel version of the 1075 which is 5 channels (5 * 120 watts into 8 ohms, 200 watts into 4 ohms). Given the caliber of speakers you're looking to buy you really need to give them some real power and you're just not going to find that in a receiver. Plus going with seperates lowers the noise floor as there's a lot of noise in most receivers that leaks into the amp section. Given the higher budget then I thought Nick's suggestion of the 1068, 1075 and 1070 (or 1080 if there's room in the budget) makes perfect sense.

SVS done for sure

Good choice :T

..need to decide on dvd/cd. what is thought on that? do i need to go SACD capability hdci etc..was going to go Rotel DVD and wait to add CD as well but what about new Yamaha 5 dvd/cd will that have latest features...

Rotel makes a nice DVD player but it lacks SACD and is single disc only...and doesn't have HDMI. The Denon's are currently the cream of the crop and is likely what I'd suggest for a universal player. That said I wouldn't honestly worry to much about SACD if you're considering adding a jukebox as some of the Sony's (my 400 disc DVD changer for example) can also play SACD's. SACD and DVD-A are also not likely going to last in the long term with DualDisc likely to eventually replace them both...at least in the mainstream world.

Really liked Vandersteen sound yesterday at shop. What about towers up front and rears in ceiling and wall mounts for 7.1? recommend any ceilings to compliment 703/704 series and Vsm1 wall rears.

That sounds like a good mix. Is there anyway you can go for in walls for the back vs in ceiling? You'll get a better directional sound with in walls vs in ceilings.

Going to go back next week to a different shop to hear B&M again. read a lot last night and everyone saying how good this company is?

B&W (Bowers & Wilkins) make exceptional speakers and given their tight relationship with Rotel the two make excellent companions. That said some find B&W a little to laid back compared to some other more forward sounding speakers. Its totally a personal choice though so go with what you like.

But Vandersteen sounds seems more surrounding which i like..will re-check again..

Where these set up the same was as the B&W's? A large portion of the sound you hear from speakers will be a result of the room they are positioned in which makes auditions difficult to compare. Still go with your gut feeling as both companies make very nice speakers.

now on to video..you guys are killing with projection now..was going to go elite..how is quality of picture between projection vs plasma..any special considerations ie light etc?

Projection offers many advantages over Plasma...but also some drawbacks. Plasma shines at giving you a nice looking image that's available instantly. They are expensive though, are a fairly small screen and can make many universal remotes inoperable as the plasma's emit a signal that interfers with the IR output on the remotes. Where projectors win is that for the dollar nothing can come close to the cost per square foot of image. For movies there's two main components that seem make or break an install...those being the subwoofer and the screen. If you have a huge screen and excellent bass the surround sound quality will fall into place even with very modest speakers. There's some background information we can point you to about how big the screen should be but generally for a 12 foot viewing distance a 92" diagonal screen would be about right...you might step up to the 106" screen but 92" is a good size to work with and will give you a brighter less blocky image with the projectors we're talking about in this price range. The obvious downside to projectors is that the bulbs don't last forever...typcially 2000 to 3000 hours and are $300 to replace. They also take a minute or so to power up and power down so they aren't that useful for quickly turning it on and watching a half hour TV show...plus unless you have HDTV watching TV on a 92" screen shows just how poor your cable signal really is. So given that what many of us do is have our projectors for movies and sports events etc and a smaller TV for TV watching. In my case I use a 32" Sony Wega but there's no reason why you couldn't go with a 50" RPTV of some sort to give you that larger image for TV viewing but at a reduced cost. Some of the LCD RPTVs TV's are pretty cheap and are fairly narrow if that's a concern.

you guys are the best..passionate comes to mind....

obsessive is what my wife calls it :rofl:

**Nick M** · 20 March 2005, 11:23 Sunday

You would want 5 towers for a 5ch DVD-A/SACD tower setup. Towers Vs. Bookshelves with a Good Sub is a big debate amongst many people. From my listening experience at hifi stores, I prefer using a sub. Even the biggest towers I've seen can't churn out 20Hz notes. Unfortunately finding a sub with good musical responsiveness is tough, and I honestly can't vouch for the SVS musicality (as I've only heard one of their tubes with movies). For movies/sports/get together music, I think 7 bookshelves with a good sub would be your best bet. It would also allow you to spend more money in other areas such as a better signal being sent to the speakers, and better projector. Most bookshelves play down to around 45-60Hz. Most good towers go to around 25-35Hz, but also tend to like a bigger amp too (which means a higher cost for not only the tower, but also the amp). Also realize that many "Towers" are actually bookshelves mounted on top of a subwoofer with its own internal amp (such as def-techs and various units from Paradigm).

Its really a personal preference, but if you want the soul moving phenomena of pipe organs in your music, you'll need a sub whether you go bookshelves or towers. Most people cross subs over between 40-80Hz anyhow, so if you plan on using a sub, then towers (in my humble opinion) are kind of a waste.

The 1067 receiver is 100Wx7 (or 120Wx2 in Stereo mode). I'm unsure of the true nature of these specs, but many receivers use a single power supply and often don't have the muscle and headroom that a dedicated amp has. They also tend to have more noise. Depending on the speakers you go with and how loud you like your music, this may not do the job given your room size. After standard discount, its going to run you $2000. If you have never compared a receiver with seperates, I suggest you try it. Given that your budget and that you are opting for a $2k receiver, I think seperates would be a smart way to go. Andrew can give you better advice on the rotel units though. I just use the RMB-1075 amp, as I have a non-rotel pre/pro for my 5.1 setup. I can tell you that my 120Wx5 Rotel RMB-1075 amp is awesome though.

Andrew could probably help you more with the projector questions, but you do have to have some light control. I'm still debating plasma/projector, but if I had a room your size I would have no debate in getting a projector.

EDIT: LOL, Andrew was typing at the same time as me.

**cvinci** · 20 March 2005, 11:35 Sunday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Ok so this is where is am left for time being..have a lot of discovery to do but here goes:

Receiver setup: Rotel 1067 or 1068/1075 combo
DVD/CD setup: DVD -Rotel 1060 or Denon 3910 -CD Rotel 1070 or look into new Yamaha 5 with DVD/CD
Sub: SVS PC Ultra
Speakers: leaning towards Vandersteen-possible setups:1) front towers(1C) center VCC1, rear VSM1 wall, and a ceiling installed speaker to compliment. 2) front and rear towers(1C), center VCC1, and a ceiling installed speakers to compliment. 3) front towers(2ce), center VCC1, rear VSM1 wall, and a ceiling installed speakers to compliment. Obviously a trade off here on towers all around in 1C vs 2ce fronts.
Video:Projection Sanyo Z3 92" screen or Pioneer Elite 1120 50"(may have a great deal on latter) which could keep me close to budget with above components/speakers.

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 March 2005, 11:41 Sunday

Here's some of the background info that you should give a read so you have a deeper understanding of why we're recomending some of the items we are

Give this page a good look over with some of these articles being of significance.

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http://www.cinemasource.com/articles.html

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http://www.cinemasource.com/articles/seating_guide.pdf

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http://www.cinemasource.com/articles/aspect_ratios.html

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http://www.cinemasource.com/articles/in_wall_speakers.pdf

404 - Dolby

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 March 2005, 11:51 Sunday

The above 7.1 speaker diagram should help you figure out if towers are going to be an option or not for properly speaker placement. Remember the SACD and DVD-A are 5.1 formats so thats where your tower speakers would go. The two rears (labeled as Lb and Rb above) are for effects and in-wall/in-ceilings would work fine for that.

I'd suggest you see if there's any store locally that you can view any projector just so you have a feeling for what we're talking about with regard to image quality and impact etc.

**Nick M** · 20 March 2005, 11:53 Sunday

You would need either the 1067 or 1068/1075/1070. The 1075 is a 5ch amp, and the 1070 is a 2ch amp. Rotel doesn't make a 7ch stand-alone amp (yet). Price difference would be $1050 ($2000 vs $3050), but I guarantee you the increase is worth it. This also allows you to simply upgrade your pre/pro (1068 ) in the future, rather than purchasing a whole new receiver and paying for the lesser-quality built-in amps all over again.

The Denon 3910 will play everything. DVDs, CDs, SACDs, DVD-A, MP3s, etc. It also has class-leading audio/video processing at this price-point and will do your system the justice it deserves. When you really sit down to focus on a movie or music. Then rather than buying a 5-disc carousel, get a 400-disc carousel for all your CDs when you just want to play endless music at random. These jukeboxs are about $300.

Remember with speakers to buy what sounds good to you. Brand/price mean nothing. Personally with an endless budget, I would prefer Thiels over B&Ws because I don't like the laid-back sound B&Ws have. But thats just me, the most important thing is that you find speakers that sound good to you. And as Andrew said, setup/placement has alot to do with how speakers sound. I start off by simply listening to a pair in stereo.

Another nice feature of having front projection/plasma is that you dont have to use the horizontal center channels, you can use the same speakers all the way around. Doing this will give you a better soundstage and help the "synergy" of the system so to speak (a tip Andrew gave me while I was building my setup).

**cvinci** · 20 March 2005, 12:14 Sunday

Lost in the Woods Contd

ok points taken..I guess i have a lot of more reading to do..thanks andrew will read all..Thxs Nicholas for clearing up receiver amp questions..i am straight now and separates are done in your recommendation with andrew. now will read on to solve questions on types of speakers to use front and rear..towers around, towers front, or same bookshelves all around as you said last. my knowlegde of projections is almost 0..one time saw at Elect Expo but did not focus on them. My cable signal is very good but do not want any picture issues to contend with T.V. Do watch a lot....enough said will read on...my new passion is conflicting with my better half which i am sure you experience time to time..will come back later on hopefully better educated as a result of your suggested thoughts and things to read..until later.....

**Andrew Pratt** · 20 March 2005, 12:32 Sunday

I hear you on the family issues. For us the pronto has helpped a great deal on that front as its now exceptionally easy to use our system by pressing a few buttons that are task based like "watch DVD" or "listen to CD" etc...the remote takes care of the rest.

for the most part too our system is used mostly for watch TV shows we've recorded on the PVR. Its really only on weekends that we fire up the projector for movies which for me means that my bulb is going to last for a long time. Still I couldn't imagine watching movies on anything other then the projector now as it really is like going to the movies. I've watched lots of movies on large TV's and while they're nice they never pull you into the movie the same way a projector can.

**aud19** · 20 March 2005, 13:27 Sunday

Well you've alread got some excellent advice but I'll also throw in my $.02

I also say that you scrap the plasma. Fact is you can get bigger and better displays for less money. Sure plasma's are cool but real performance at less money is cooler in my books. I agree with Andrew's suggestion for a projector with a pull down screen for nightime/critical viewing in combination with a say.. 42" CRT based HD-RPTV for daytime/casual viewing. I recommend you look at Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Toshiba for the RPTV.

Depending on budget I'd go with the Rotel RSX-1056 5-ch receiver and RB-1070 2-ch amp for the less expensive solution or a RSP-1068 pre/pro, RMB-1075 5ch amp and RV-1080 2-ch amp if you have enough space in the budget. Both offer 7.1 capability, the second (more expensive) option just has more power and better performance overall.

For music/movies, I'd go with a Denon 2910 or 3910 likely. Though I've always liked Yamaha's players as well so keep that in mind if it comes out in time. Otherwise a CD jukebox is a good suggestion. If you're at all handy with computers, you can make a pretty nice music server on a PC and connect it to you theatre pretty easily as well... This would also allow you to play games, surf the web, email on top of storing all your music in one convenient, easily accesible place. All available to your system.

You'd definitely want tower or bookshelf speakers for your front three channels. The rears could be in wall or in ceiling units though I'd still recommend towers/bookshelf models for the "side" surrounds if possible. Vandersteens are great speakers, a couple other brands I reccomend listening to are: B&W, Energy, Kef, Polk, PSB, Paradigm, Totem and Vienna Acoustics. If music is a big priority to you I do recommend towers, especially for DVD-A/SACD (I've got Energy Connoisseur towers front and rear, though some might consider it overkill :P ) Nicholas makes a good point that bookshelf/sub combo's work well for movies with a crossover between 40-80hZ but for music (2-ch and multi-channel) I prefer to listen with my mains full range which pretty much dictates towers. With DVD-A I let the 5 main channels play full range and allow the sub to play anything in the .1 (LFE) signal with wonderful results :T

For a sub, I agree, go SVS, I might even suggest 2 subs for that large of a space. If two are not in the budget now, perhaps it's something you can upgrade later and just get one now.

For power conditioning I actually like APC Line-R power conditioners. They're inexpensive and they work well. Most companies that sell products with HT in mind automatically up the price even if the product quality hasn't been. APC is one of the biggest in it's field for protecting computer components for many years. They're just starting to get in to the HT market recently. Have a look

I'm sure Andrew can help you out tons selecting the best Pronto remote for you :T

**cvinci** · 21 March 2005, 23:07 Monday

Lost in the Woods Contd

will try another method

**David Meek** · 22 March 2005, 08:36 Tuesday

That sounds ominous. . . .

**cvinci** · 22 March 2005, 13:32 Tuesday

Lost in the woods contd

No i tried to copy specs of my space from Word..did not work and i guess did not come through. still going ahead as mentioned above..found a place that carries all of my options and will visit on Friday.

**cvinci** · 24 March 2005, 12:13 Thursday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Here is my basement specs.

Attached Files

Basementdiagram.doc (27.5 KB, 177 views)

**cvinci** · 26 March 2005, 10:27 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Went to a very good shop yesterday that carries B&W and Vandersteen. Listened to all series 1C, 2Ce and 704, 804...For my budget the best overall in terms of value and my listening preference were the 2Ce..Fantastic midrange and clear open surrounding sounds..Also listened to some $20,000 B&Ws and all i can say is WOW....Ok here is the latest lineup;

Pioneer Elite 1120HD(checked projection out etc but only hold one vote in house and other half vetoed do to darkness requirement etc)
Rotel RSP-1068, RMB-1075, RB-1080(RB-1070)
Denon 3910
SVS PC Ultra
Vandersteen 2Ce, Vcc1, Sides VSM1, Rear Ceiling B&W CCM65
APC Line R Power
Pronto Remote

Feedback appreciated on selections etc. I enclosed basement diagram above and only thing I am concerned about is surround sides..shop suggested wall on right and left but concerned about distance of right..it is very far from listening area.

**Andrew Pratt** · 26 March 2005, 10:33 Saturday

Sounds like an incredible home theater set up to me:T Let me know if need any help setting up that pronto

**cvinci** · 26 March 2005, 12:34 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

thank you andrew..which model pronto do you suggest?

**aud19** · 26 March 2005, 13:00 Saturday

Those columns sure are in the way aren't they! If you can I'd move the seating slightly to the right if you can as long as it doesn't throw you to far off the screen. I've edited your diagram showing where I'd put the furniture (more centered with the columns/room) as well as the general locations where I'd likely put the speakers. The blue squares are where I'd put the 5 main speakers if they were all freestanding. The red stars are where I'd likely wall-mount the 4 rear speakers, the yellow stars are where some di/bi-pole speakers might work mounted to the columns though I think it's likely to close to the listening area. I also prefer direct radiators in that position mostly for music but also for movies. The green dots are where I'd ceiling mount the back surrounds if you go with in ceiling speakers for them.

As far as your display if you can't go with a projector is there any real reason you need to go plasma? RPTV's (especially CRT based sets) generally perform better for much less money (again, especially CRT based sets). Is the extra 1'-1.5' you'll save really worth a drop in performance and a huge increase in price?

I also wouldn't mix the Vand's and B&W's. Buy all one brand and preferably one line of speakers for a more cohesive sound and similar voicing.

Other than that, it's an impressive list of toys! :T

Attached Files

**Shane Martin** · 26 March 2005, 15:17 Saturday

Aud,
I don't think mixing and matching the speakers the way he has it setup will be such a bad deal. The B&W's are in-ceiling speakers which Vandersteen doesn't make. If he wanted to go with on-wall rears, it would cost him alot more. Granted if he moved away from the Plasma suggestion, he'd had ALOT MORE money to put towards that solution. If he wanted the Plasma look w/o the Plasma price then he could consider buying a RPTV CRT based and flush mount in into the wall.

However if he wants to stick to Plasma, then that is his options.

What I don't get is the whole "in the dark thing" because this is a basement right? Basements generally are dark and don't have any windows anyway..

**cvinci** · 26 March 2005, 23:31 Saturday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Aud&Shane, thanks so much for your thoughts. Here are my issues and hopefully you can steer me some more given your expertise;

I experimented many times with location of furniture but we want to keep the area away from fireplace and bar area so as to not take up the whole room. Reason being that want flow to be good so as to come down stairs make right and be able to progress infront of fireplace into bar area and then out to sitting area. We thought about putting furniture on right side in between second and third column but decided not to because wanted to keep view of fireplace open and permit flow into and out of bar area. I want to stay away from 4 towers as i see it to be too much for room and the right side becomes a problem as it would be in middle of space between column and wall leading to fireplace and bar area. Four walls would work as you showed but the vandys are pretty big and seems a lot against 4 walls. Hence my vision of them on sides and B&Ws on ceilings for rear. Also I am very concerned about the right wall speaker being very far from listening area. Will calibrating solve the problem? Do you know of any ceilings that would compliment the Vandys better than the B&Ws? When you say same lines you mean not a good idea to use towers with walls and ceilings or three way front with two way rears?
Concerning the Plasma vs Projection vs RPTV. I have a high probability of getting the plasma at an incredible price. I looked at projections last week at a few stores and found the prices to be twice what i would hopefully being paying for the plasma. I did not view the Sanyo Z3 as recommended above but all the rest were in the 6k-10k range and getting a premium screen seems to be costly.RPTV is an option but as i said the price would be about the same for me. Look forward to your feedback..thxs as always

**Andrew Pratt** · 27 March 2005, 00:01 Sunday

The TSU3000 is likely the best bang for the buck right now in the pronto line. the 7000 is still a bit too buggy for my liking.

**Mitchell** · 28 March 2005, 10:53 Monday

Originally posted by cvinci

...my new passion is conflicting with my better half which i am sure you experience time to time......

Perhaps in addition to Rotel, B&W, HT etc. there should be a Spouse Management forum on HT guide. This could be very helpful and entertaining. Just an idea.

**Shane Martin** · 30 March 2005, 17:59 Wednesday

Also I am very concerned about the right wall speaker being very far from listening area. Will calibrating solve the problem?

I have an odd room(no basement) like this and It seems to work. I am calibrated

**autio** · 02 April 2005, 09:16 Saturday

dont laugh I think these guys are serious

Mitchell
Your Idea seems to be a little late DK design group (a company that sells a ss tube hybird intergrated of which I have no affilliation) already has a long page devoted to our relationships with our spouses and our hobby. lol

http://dkdesigngroup.com/couple/index.htm

**Nick M** · 02 April 2005, 12:19 Saturday

:laughat: HAHAHAHAHA!
I'm going to post this as a thread...

**Shane Martin** · 02 April 2005, 12:25 Saturday

Thanks for taht link Autio. I shared it with another group/board I spend time with.

It is funny yet serious.

**cvinci** · 10 April 2005, 09:06 Sunday

Lost in the Woods Contd

Pioneer Elite Installed yesterday...Components coming thurs....by way SVS PC Ultra is huge....excitement just starting....thanks again for all help..will post when all set up and running...

Lost in the Woods

Lost in the Woods

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