Rotel vs Outlaw

[Nick M]

Alright guys, I'm still unsure of what path to take...

Rotel RSP-1068 & RMB-1075
or
Outlaw Audio Models 950 & 755

Both setups have phenomenal reviews that go on and on.
I need some input and advice.

Thanks for the help!

~Nick
nicholasmosher@verizon.net

[Andrew Pratt]

Welcome to Club Rotel Nick...really IMO this isn't much of a choice...if you can swing the Rotel's go for it...they sound better then the outlaws and resale value is WAY better.

[resperc]

Nick, I was in the same boat this past summer. I ended going with the Rotel combo (RSP-1068 and RMB-1075). I chose Rotel for the following reasons...
1) resale value
2) I really think the RSP-1068 is a better processor with more functions/features than the Outlaw 950
3) although Outlaw has awesome customer service (and products-I own a bunch of their cables), you just can't beat establishing a good relationship with a reputable and knowledgable dealer on a purchase of this size and importance. You never know when "upgraditis" will hit or you are in a some sort of jam and it is nice to have a reliable resource.
4) as superficial as it may be, I could not get past the BIG GREEN LOGO/POWER BUTTON

I am completely satisfied with my Rotel set-up. It was one of the best purchases I have ever made. Good Luck!!! resperc

[Nick M]

More Info

ANDREW:
What do you mean by "They sound better"? If you could, please explain a little better.

RESPERC:
Is it just the extra options that made you choose the RSP-1068 over the Model 950?

What benefits would you have by buying from a dealer (Rotel) that you wouldn't by making factory direct purchases (Outlaw)?



Although I definetly like the looks of the Rotel equipment better, I'm wondering what sets them ahead of the outlaw setup (other than looks) which has 80W more per channel and costs less.

[shadow]

I like the 950's analog bass management for SACD, but it sound pretty bright and hard in my opinion. It also lacks DPL IIx which the Rotel has. Rotel also has a good history of software upgrades over the internet which Outlaw does not. IMO, the Rotel just sounds better on top of superior features. You can rename the inputs on the Rotel which you cannot on the Outlaw. There are a number of other refinements available on the Rotel if you check the website. The amps are closer and if you can take the looks, the Outlaw is great. Few people have traded or sold their 1075 for a higher powered amp, but either one is a good choice. I would get the Rotel but that is up to you.

[MattCXII]

I am slowly changing out my Rotel gear in favour of Bryston. I have not heard the outlaw gear you are talking of so I can't really comment on it. I can, however, comment on the Rotel gear. It has served me well and I did very much enjoy the sound of it. For me, Bryston's transparent sound is just much more suited to me. To say that Rotel just "sounds better" is a very big statement to make. Does the Outlaw gear have a return warrenty? If so, I would advise you to order the equipment and then get a dealer to lend you some Rotel equipment. Do an A/B test. That is the only way you will find out what "sounds better" to you.

Matt

[Nick M]

A/b

I thought of doing this, as Outlaw does offer a 30 day in home trial, but you have to pay shipping. I also don't have the funds to have both setups at once, and am building my first real home theater with seperates, so I don't have the speakers I plan on getting yet either (currently looking at Ascend Acoustics and Paradigm Studio). I plan on buying my pre/pro in a couple weeks, the amp and optical player in January, and at least my front mains in February. I did listen to the Rotel setup last month in 2 channel mode, and thought it was good, but wonder how a similarly rated and reviewed setup stands up, especially with such a cost difference ($1900 vs $2700), and 200W/channel over 120W/channel with the RMB-1075. Either way I'm gonna get nailed with Tax because I live in Massachusetts...

http://www.rotel.com

http://www.outlawaudio.com

~Nick
nicholasmosher@verizon.net

[Andrew Pratt]

ANDREW:
What do you mean by "They sound better"? If you could, please explain a little better.

Back when the Outlaw was current the Rotel 1066 was the pre amp most compared to it on the forums. In virtually every case when people bought both to compare they returned the Outlaw and kept the Rotel. That was several years ago now and if you read up on the posts about the 1068 you'll see that the general concensus is that the 1068 is a big step up from the 1066 which then stands to reason its distanced itself further yet from the Outlaw. The Rotels bass management is very flexible and its loaded with the current processing modes that all told will improve the sound you hear.

[BlazeMaster]

Nicolas, you don't have to purchase them both to demo them at home together. Most Rotel or B&W dealers have a very good demo policy that they'll let you take them home for a couple of nights and try it with your existing equipment. Have Outlaw ship you their "trial units" and when you receive them, go to your Rotel dealer and take the units you want home.
Test them by doing A/B switching and try to make sure all variables are equal, same cables, same power outlet, and same EQ settings. This is the only way YOU will know for sure, which one is better to YOU.

[SpOoNmAn]

Ive had a few Outlaw amps and had the 950 for about 28 days, lol, called them right b4 the trial ended.

I dont think its really fair to compare a 4 year old Outlaw to a newer Rotel, but thats the case here. When I got mine, I got it during one of their specials. Free shipping, and I got a B stock, which gets the same warranty as the new ones. So I paid $730.00 total for a kickass pre/pro.

Its features were excellent, and I couldnt care less about ProLogic, I still dont.

The 950 is a LOT better looking in person than it is in pictures. The 5 and 7 channel stereo are great modes.

Now I cant compare them to any Rotel pre/pros because Ive never fondled one.

I will say this about Outlaw, Ill take their customer service over almost anyones. You have a problem, send it back. I even know some people that got their shipping costs reimbursed.

I had their M200 monoblocks, and what killer amps. I think I liked them better than the Rotel 1075 I had, but its really not fair to compare monoblocks running at 200 watts @ 8 ohms, to a 5 channel amps running at 120 watts @ 8 ohms. For stereo, the Outlaws rocked. Outlaw amps don't fool around, they are brutes. Dont underestimate them just because they are cheap.

Unfortunately, I also fall for the sexy looks of gear. If The difference in price was NOT subtantial, I'd go with the silver Rotels. If the price difference was quite a bit, and didnt mind the bland looks of the Outlaw, and wanted great performance, Id get the Outlaw combo.

None of what I typed mattered at the end of the day though so dont read too much into what I typed...

I made my decision and returned Outlaw and became a Parasound guy :T

why did I reply to this? LOL.

Please ignore me, I overdosed on Nyquil :E

[Nick M]

Thanks Spoonman!

Your thoughts were quite helpful Spoonman. The guys at the audio store I demo'd the 1068 & 1075 at are constantly drilling into me that the Outlaws are inferior to the Rotel equipment (for obvious reasons, they're trying to sell me stuff). Likewise, the Outlaw technical staff keeps telling me that while Rotel makes a good product, I would need to get the RMB-1095 from Rotel in order to compete with the outlaw Model 755 which would give me a package price difference of $3700 to $1900. I eMailed Rotel directly 3 times, and finally after receiving no responses after 2 weeks, I called them and was told to contact a local distributor. Outlaw returned 2 eMails I sent them within 24 hours. The only manufacturer so far that I have contacted with questions that has had superior customer service was SVS (received a 6 paragraph custom response to my questions in 2 hours!).

I hate television (I don't even have cable), so I don't need anything with video switching, as DVDs are the only thing I use with a video signal. The only sound processing I care about is 5.1 DD and DTS.

While I love the silver on black Rotels with the fiery blue LED, I'm not sure those looks are worth almost double the price of the Outlaw 950/755 setup, especially if the performance is equivalent (Thats a big IF). I'm thinking of holding my cash until next month when I can purchase both the Outlaw pieces with a pair of mains, and then I can A/B them with the Rotel setup as Blazemaster suggested.

[SpOoNmAn]

The dealer Ive been going to for years didnt put down Outlaw at all. If he would have, Id lose respect for the store and go elsewhere. He tried selling me an Anthem pre/pro a few months back and I mentioned the 950 and he said nothing but good things about it. I like dealers who want you to enjoy the hobby, regardless if they sell you anything or not. Thats the way my dealer is, thats why I send him a lot of business.

I forgot to mention that I too would suggest trying to A/B them. Im a firm believer in getting what YOUR EARS like best.

This is a Rotel forum, Yes. But most of these people are wise enough to tell you to A/B them. We all want whats best for one another, we are a family afterall

I A/B'd the Outlaw 950 to the Halo C2 and we all know what happened after that. The price difference was Monstrous, but I fell in love, what can I say. I would have always had regrets if I didnt stick with the C2. And we all know Peace of Mind is key in this hobby. :T

Ill say it again, online only or not, Outlaws Customer Service is top notch. Ive delt with them personally, as have a few friends, and have never heard anything bad about them. I cannot say the same about Rotel unfortunately. Im not putting down Rotel. They obviously sell a lot more, so the potential of problems is greater.

Ill say this. The Outlaw, at 740.00, gave this Halo c2 a run for its $$ in some areas. Its Bypass mode for 2 channel was heavenly. I could not believe how good it was.

But for 5.1, the C2 was superior, and a tad better for 2 channel. I too dont use any video switching. I use DTS and DD, that be it :W

I dont watch TV, I play Xbox and watch dvd's, and listen to cd's. Im a simple man who needs sexy blue lights on his Halo gear to keep him happy :B

[Andrew Pratt]

I eMailed Rotel directly 3 times, and finally after receiving no responses after 2 weeks, I called them and was told to contact a local distributor. Outlaw returned 2 eMails I sent them within 24 hours. The only manufacturer so far that I have contacted with questions that has had superior customer service was SVS (received a 6 paragraph custom response to my questions in 2 hours!).

Too be fair its not really Rotels fault that two internet only companies had better response times for a potential direct customer...its their only way of communicating with you so they'd better respond quickly. Rotel on the other hand relies on its dealer network to respond to customers questions etc though obviously Rotel's head office tech guys will respond to emails as well (but they're pretty busy most times and is likely why they're prefer you deal with the local guys first).

Anyway there's no reason you couldn't mix and match outlaw amps and rotel processors to get what you want. There's always the option of buying used as well.

[SpOoNmAn]

Too be fair its not really Rotels fault that two internet only companies had better response times for a potential direct customer...its their only way of communicating with you so they'd better respond quickly.

Good point. :wink:

[Nick M]

...

You certainly have a point Andrew about the Rotel support...

I think I'm going to listen to the Outlaw setup, and then compare it to the Rotel setup. 1068/1075 is within budget, but the 1095 would crush my speaker budget. I have $1200 this month, $2000 next month, and about $700/mo after that for HT spending. Flight lessons are really crimping my free cash, but I love flying almost as much as HT. I refuse to swipe credit cards and make payments!

[SpOoNmAn]

What speakers do you have?

I powered my hungry DefTech Bp30's on large with the 1075 and it was incredible. Insane volume levels sometimes at reference, and it never broke a sweat or sounded strained to the point that I felt I could use a lot more power.

I sold it to a friend and hes running it with the Outlaw 950, and its powering the mids and highs in his new DefTech powered towers, now THAT is a perfect match, leaving the amp just to run the highs and mids. :T

You wont be dissapointed if you go the 1075 route..

that is unless your speakers NEED substantial power per channel, or their Impedance is peculiarly low.

[Nick M]

Just Starting Out...

This is going to be my first "Real" HT.
Right now I'm still using my PC with Audigy Sound processing, Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB video processing, Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 speakers, and a 20" 1600x1200 LCD. This setup was "OK" in my old 10'x10' room, but doesn't hold up in my new place, especially now that I've been auditioning seperates with fairly good quality speakers.

My new place has an 18'x12' room that will be completely dedicated to HT.

For speakers I've been looking at Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s, and Paradigm Reference Studio 20s. Big price difference ($340 vs $800), but I hear that the Ascends have the best crossover on the market in a speaker under $2k. Like the Outlaw vs Rotel issue, both have review ratings close to 5/5, and one is internet only. I've only heard the rotels and paradigms.

For my sub I have no problems of indecision as I will most definetly be getting an SVS PC-Ultra.

To be honest I'm really leaning towards the Outlaw 950/755 with five CBM-170s (I want symmetrical speakers for SACD & DVD-A) and the SVS. I will bite the bullet for the Rotels and Studio 20s if the internet stuff doesn't impress me. It will just take a couple extra months to fully build my system. I'm becoming obsessed with this! :twisted: :B

[SpOoNmAn]

Looks like you have a plan underway, youre past the hardest part.

I'm sure you've heard this before, but spend more on the speakers than you will the pre/pro and amp.

Id take a better speaker and the Outlaw gear over a lesser speaker and the Rotel gear, hope that makes sense. Thats assuming the Rotel gets put into the better category(which it does). It all depends on your budget in the end.

Do you like the sound of Paradigms? Have you ever listened to the Ascends?

Make that your #1 priority. The preamps and amps are a distant second in my opinion. Get speakers you drool over when you listen to them, then get the rest of the gear. :T

It'll all fall into place. Took me about a month to get everything, from cables to surge/spike protection, to the actual gear. But it was well worth it. Im not a patient person by any means, it was the longest 3 or 4 weeks of my life. :E

[Nick M]

I'm trying to go the middle road with this purchase. Rather than get the best speakers I've heard and a $200 Receiver, I'm trying to piece together a collection of moderately priced equipment that sounds good with each other. What I've found that I like in sound is ultra-clear, tight, full-range sound. One of my favorite demo DVDs is "Gladiator". I like when you can decipher the wind/wheat at the beginning of the film, and hear seperate bass instruments from the stiff blows of combat in the colosseum scenes. Of course I want true sub-sonic frequency representation so you can feel things before you hear them (which in my experience the SVS tube subs do with flying colors), and I like bright highs more than layed back highs, so long as they aren't piercing. The Paradigm Studio 20 tweeters were borderline on this. My biggest pet-peeve are speakers/equipment that add that warm sound to the music and round off the edges from things like sword clashes and symbols. But at the same time like I said, I don't wan't to squint everytime I hear glass breaking.

I haven't listened to the Ascends yet, but they look very promising. The only thing I'm worried about is whether the tweeter is to soft. But when I mentioned to the Outlaw tech guys that I may be using these speakers, the guy said three of them use Ascends in their home. They also have a 4.94/5.00 review score on audioreview after 79 reviews. They also have a 30day trial, so I figured it couldn't hurt to try them right?

http://www.audioreview.com/Main%20Speaker/Ascend%20Acoustics/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx

Holy crap! You bought that parasound, rotel, and def-tech equipment in one month?! You must either be rich or in debt! :E :B

[SpOoNmAn]

Yeah I rememeber reading some of the Outlaw people themselves use Ascends. If you get a trial period, by all means try them out my friend.

And as far as my theatre, I used inheritance money, and what I had left from when I sold my previous theatre gear. Not a single credit card was used :T No loans either, lol.

[Nick M]

Cool

I'm going start reading those newsletters to see if I have any money due to me from those old civil war veteran death reimbursements. Maybe I had a GGG Grandfather that croaked and now I have thousands of dollars coming my way. Oh nevermind... :B

Going to start with the 950/755 and a pair of CBM-170s. If I like them, I'll order three more single CBM-170s and eventually get the SVS PC-Ultra when it starts shipping in early February. Reviews say the bargain DVD-A player to get is the Denon 2900 which is being phased out. I don't want to put big money into something like the new Onkyo (see link below) because of the new HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players that are set to hit the market in late 2005/early 2006.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-RQJ8fsOcEuN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&g=130050&id=morephotos&pi=4&i=580DVSP1K&display=XL#Tab

If the Outlaws or Ascends are crap, I'll ship them back and go for the Rotels and Paradigm Studios. Thats the game plan anyways. Thanks for all the help guys!

~Nick :T

[Andrew Pratt]

I think this thread is now better suited to the HT area then Club Rotel.

[CWD]

Best of both worlds

I split the difference in your choices.

The Rotel RSP-1068 is clearly the best choice for the pre/pro function given it's surround processing capabilities (Pro-Logic IIx), crossover controls for the Fronts/Center/Surrounds, and options for the 7.1 input. So, I went with the Rotel.

However, I bought the Outlaw 755 amplifier to go with it. I already owned an Outlaw 750 that I had paired with a B&K Reference 30 for my family room theater and loved it. The Outlaw 755 pairs well with the Rotel, but it definitely draws current at 200W per channel. Since Outlaw does offer the 30-day home trial, you could do a "try and keep" with the amplifier.

Good luck.

[Nick M]

SPOONMAN:
How did you like the Model 200 Mono-Blocks?

The reason why I ask, is that I'm thinking about going with five m200 monoblocks, that way I can buy two to start off with along with one pair of ascends, and later add three more along with a center and surrounds (three CBM-170s). This will get my audio system up and going a month or two earlier, so I can atleast listen to reasonable quality stereo. I imagine haveing completely discreet amplifiers for each channel would also cut out any cross-talk which might give me a little bit nicer sound than a single 5ch amp.

Just curious as to your thoughts.

[Nick M]

Hmmm...

The Model 950 just dropped to $699!
Outlaw advised me to go with the Model 7100 amp (100Wx7) if I go with the Ascends due to their 91dB sensitivity, but said 200W would give greater dynamic headroom during drawn out action scenes. This of course is 2ch more than I'll use though.

Question:
What is the typical discount off from MSRP that most of you guys got on your Rotel gear? The 120Wx5 RMB-1075 listing for $999 is still on my short list, but I'm curious as to what many of you have negotiated for prices.

$1700 still leaves a little sour taste in my mouth for the 1068 when the Outlaw unit is now $700. I wonder how The Outlaw 950 and Rotel 1075 would pair up...

[DrJRapp]

The Model 950 just dropped to $699! $1700 still leaves a little sour taste in my mouth for the 1068 when the Outlaw unit is now $700. I wonder how The Outlaw 950 and Rotel 1075 would pair up...

Count me in as a person who tried an Outlaw 950 and sent it back. The 950 sounded good enough, was certainly an excellent value (better even now), however for my tastes it just wasn't an elegant enough solution in terms of appearance and build quality. Rotel gear was.

There probably is a good reason the 950 recently dropped in price. By comparison to the Rotel 1068 and other new offerings out there the processor in the 950 is a generation behind in technology, and CL is probably ready to stop production of that chip. Outlaw is probably clearing out the 950s in anticipation of the release of its newer, better model.

Another approach you may want to consider is visiting Audiogon and picking up a used Rotel RSP 1066 which is more in line with the 950 (uses the same processor chip). Your cost should be in the range of $900-1000. The beauty of this approach that if you later decide to upgrade, you can probably get most of your investment in the 1066 back since it has already depreciated.

[AndrewM]

The price drop is probably due to the lack of features that the 950 offers compared to the current crop of pre-pro's out in the market, it's what 2-3 years old now? That's a long time for this type of product.

Here's the way I would look at it, since you are essentially starting from scratch and have X dollars to spend, how will this choice effect the rest of the system. If the Rotel and the Outlaw are close in sound quality, then the $1k difference could be spent elsewhere for bigger gains. What will an extra $1k do to your speaker choices for instance? Or if you like music $1k will get you a top quality DAC. $1k will get you a top rated DVD player, etc.

[Andrew Pratt]

Right if it were me I'd be buying a more modern processor and a used power amp to ballence out the savings. Amps don't change much over the years so a used 1075 etc would be a great buy.

for example this amp is virtually identical to the 1075 and is being offered for a nice price.

This Sony got good reviews as well.

Here's a used 1075...

If you don't mind the silver colour this Sherwood is a very strong amp and was very popular not that long ago.

Here's a used Rotel 1066 processor.

[Nick M]

The 950 sounded good enough, was certainly an excellent value (better even now), however for my tastes it just wasn't an elegant enough solution in terms of appearance and build quality. Rotel gear was.

But on sound quality alone, was the Outlaw Model 950 on par with the Rotel RSP-1068? If not, please describe the differences. I have heard the 1068 with Paradigm Studio speakers and liked it very much, but I'd be willing to trade off the fancy design and blue LEDs for $1000 more in my pocket.

By comparison to the Rotel 1068 and other new offerings out there the processor in the 950 is a generation behind in technology, and CL is probably ready to stop production of that chip. Outlaw is probably clearing out the 950s in anticipation of the release of its newer, better model.

I understand that both the Rotel and Outlaw processors use chips from Crystal Semiconductors, which is now called Cirrus (or the other way around). The only processing I need is 5.1 DTS and 5.1 DD. Are the advancements made in these new processors merely new soundfields, or higher quality processing. The only inputs I will have on the processor will be from a DVD player.

Another approach you may want to consider is visiting Audiogon

I've been checking there for things daily... :B But I won't be ready to make my first purchase until just after Christmas. I just absorbed all the shock of christmas shopping and flight tuition 8O

The price drop is probably due to the lack of features that the 950 offers compared to the current crop of pre-pro's out in the market

Again, I'm wondering if the new processors just have more soundfields beyond what I need/want, or if the sound is truely better.

If the Rotel and the Outlaw are close in sound quality, then the $1k difference could be spent elsewhere for bigger gains.

My thoughts exactly! But thats a BIG IF. Just trying to find out if the extra money for the 1068 is just for features I don't need, and phenomenal looks that I can do without if it means $1000 extra bucks.

Right if it were me I'd be buying a more modern processor and a used power amp to ballence out the savings. Amps don't change much over the years so a used 1075 etc would be a great buy.

The price for a new RMB-1075 doesn't bother me at all. 120Wx5 for $999/Retail (probably less with some negotiations) is a great value. If I could negotiate a final price of $900 (incl. Tax), that would be on par with Outlaw value. I'm also still unsure about how much power I want/need. The speakers I'm looking at have 91dB sensitivity (and my backup choice of Studio 20s are efficient as well). Both my Rotel/Paradigm dealer and Outlaw say 100W or 120W is plenty enough, but they also say 200W is desirable for drawn out action sequences due to the greater headroom. If I choose 200W, the Outlaw 755 is a no brainer being $1300 vs Rotels $2000 RMB-1095. If I go with less power, the RMB-1075 is a no brainer as the Outlaw model ($900 Model 7100) in this category is 100Wx7, 20W less a channel, and two channels more than I need.

I guess I'm wondering if the sound quality of the 950 is on par with the 1068. If all I need to spend on my processor is $700, I can spend the extra dough on the 200Wx5 755 amp. If I need to dish out $1700 for sound roughly equal to what I heard from the 1068, I will be going with the 120Wx5 RMB-1075.

One last thing, I asked in a previous post what you guys got for a discount off from MSRP on your Rotel gear. Just curious, as it would be nice to have some info when bartering with the local dealer if I go Rotel.

Thanks guys for contributing to this thread and helping me think this out!

[Nick M]

More Listening

Went to a different music store today in hopes of hearing the Rotel/Paradigm setup again. Unfortunately, this dealer didn't sell Rotel equipment, But I got a nice demo of the Studio 20, Studio 100, and Seismic 10 using pre/pro and amps from "Arcam". Once again, I was impressed by the Studio 20s. The Studio 100s were certainly nice, but when crossed over to be used with a sub, I'm positive the sonic gain you get is minimal for the extra green you dish out. I wasn't impressed at all with the Seismic 10 though (my first time hearing it). I gave the guy a nice smile, but wouldn't have paid $500 for it.

I also played with using paradigm direct radiating surrounds over dipole/bipole, and like the direct radiating speakers better (Studio 20s). When I pull the trigger for speakers, If I don't like the Ascends I'm definetly returning them and going with Studio 20s.

Over the past few days I've also been bouncing eMails back and forth with David Fabrikant of Ascend Acoustics. He advised me to go with the Rotel equipment over the Outlaw. He said the bench processor they use at their company is the RSP-1066 and along with the 1075 would match the Ascends quite nicely. The local music shop that does sell Rotel told me they would give me 10% off MSRP if I ordered both the 1068 & 1075. That comes out to $2550 (with tax). The Outlaw 950/755 combo is about $2100 (with tax and shipping). This is only $450 difference, which isn't all that bad I guess. Like I said, I liked the 1068 when I heard it last month, and I suppose the only way I'll find out if the 950 is on par is by ordering it and trying it. I am leaning towards the 1075 amp though. The Studio 20s sounded great today with a 100W/ch amp, as they did with the 1075 last month (120W/ch). I think I was just getting greedy with the watts like people do with horsepower. :twisted: :B

[SpOoNmAn]

Went to a different music store today in hopes of hearing the Rotel/Paradigm setup again. Unfortunately, this dealer didn't sell Rotel equipment, But I got a nice demo of the Studio 20, Studio 100, and Seismic 10 using pre/pro and amps from "Arcam". Once again, I was impressed by the Studio 20s. The Studio 100s were certainly nice, but when crossed over to be used with a sub, I'm positive the sonic gain you get is minimal for the extra green you dish out. I wasn't impressed at all with the Seismic 10 though (my first time hearing it). I gave the guy a nice smile, but wouldn't have paid $500 for it.

I also played with using paradigm direct radiating surrounds over dipole/bipole, and like the direct radiating speakers better (Studio 20s). When I pull the trigger for speakers, If I don't like the Ascends I'm definetly returning them and going with Studio 20s.

Over the past few days I've also been bouncing eMails back and forth with David Fabrikant of Ascend Acoustics. He advised me to go with the Rotel equipment over the Outlaw. He said the bench processor they use at their company is the RSP-1066 and along with the 1075 would match the Ascends quite nicely. The local music shop that does sell Rotel told me they would give me 10% off MSRP if I ordered both the 1068 & 1075. That comes out to $2550 (with tax). The Outlaw 950/755 combo is about $2100 (with tax and shipping). This is only $450 difference, which isn't all that bad I guess. Like I said, I liked the 1068 when I heard it last month, and I suppose the only way I'll find out if the 950 is on par is by ordering it and trying it. I am leaning towards the 1075 amp though. The Studio 20s sounded great today with a 100W/ch amp, as they did with the 1075 last month (120W/ch). I think I was just getting greedy with the watts like people do with horsepower. :twisted: :B

I was going to ask why you mentioned paying Tax for the Outlaw gear, but saw youre in MA, isnt Outlaw from there? That would explain the tax comment I think.

Im thinking about getting the same combo for my basement setup. Its such a bargain, I dont think I can pass it up to be honest. I just went to the Outlaw site and saw the 950 is now 699.00. That is just insanity. I can see how some would think it must be garbage at that price, they couldnt be more wrong.

Im going to get a BStock for 649.99. $649.00 for a great pre/pro, its almost laughable because its so cheap.

I believe the Bstock 755 was under 1,200.00, another bargain. I'll be paying around $1,800.00 shipped for those 2 pieces. My first Pioneer Elite receiver was that much, oh if I only knew then what I know now :E

Sounds like youre getting closer to your theatre being put together. Keep us up to date :T

[Andrew Pratt]

If the difference is that narrow and the speaker company recomends the Rotel you know which I'd lean towards The processing of just 5.1 is improved in the 1068 over the 1066 as many people are finding it better at steering the sounds properly. Its also got PLIIx which I'll admit is aimed at 7.1 setups but its very nice on 5.1 as well for 2 channel sources (Cable, CD etc) I guess just having something that looks stunning, is current and has stellar resale would be enough for me over the older outlaw products...esp. when the speakers are tested on that gear.

[Nick M]

Yeah, unfortunately Outlaw Audio does indeed make it's home in Massachusetts which means $100 worth of tax at 5% on a pre/pro & amp combination.

I'm hoping the Model 950 lives up to it's reviews, and the experience I got from the Rotel 1068. My ever-changing plans (as I gather more info and audition) currently are leaning towards a Rotel RMB-1075 120Wx5 Amplifier and Outlaw Audio Model 950 Pre/Pro. I think 120W/ch will be just fine for the speakers I'm considering, especially once they're crossed over at 80hz. $945 for the RMB-1075 (incl. Tax), $1450 for the Model 755 (incl. Tax & Ship). I know I'll lose 80W/ch by going with the 1075, but like I mentioned earlier, I was happy with just 100W/ch listening to the Studio 20s today. On the plus side, I'll have $500 extra to put towards a nice DVD-A player, and I'll have atleast 1 blue LED for some sexiness in the rack :B

If the 950 doesn't live up to the reviews, I'll most definetly return it and go with a 1068.

[DrJRapp]

The local music shop that does sell Rotel told me they would give me 10% off MSRP if I ordered both the 1068 & 1075. That comes out to $2550 (with tax). :B

I would push a bit harder for another hundred or so.

[SpOoNmAn]

Nicholas, just curious..

have you had a pre/pro in your home yet? I forget everything Ive read from you, I apoligize. The first thing you'll notice in movies with the 950 is how the surrounds come alive. The center is also more distinguishable, and the LFE from both the 950 and my current C2 had a very clean LFE output compared to flagship receivers Ive had in the past.

I ran my hungry Bp30's with the 1075 for atleast half a year and it never broke a sweat, and I ran them on large. Youll be more than fine with the 1075, trust me.

[Nick M]

I would push a bit harder for another hundred or so.

Oh I definetly plan to push harder. 10% was their initial offer without any negotiation. I plan on picking up the RMB-1075 towards the end of the month. The 950 will come in January. If I like the 950, I'll also get a nice DVD-A player in January. If the 950 isn't to my tastes, I'll return it and go with the 1068, but that will sap my HT budget for January. I'm going to buy things piece by piece because I don't want to rack up any debt or monthly payments.

have you had a pre/pro in your home yet?

Nope. This is my first apartment, and when looking for a place I made sure I had a reasonable sized room (18'x12') for HT, and advised my landlord that I would be shaking the house on weekend afternoons (I have the bottom floor of the house and he has the top). A good friend of mine has a nice stereo setup with seperates (adcom stuff) and after listening to his stuff over the past few years, and then auditioning stuff at the local music shops, I developed a serious case of the Gimmie-Gimmies. As I mentioned in the above posts, up until now I've been using a high-end home-built PC with Klipsch speakers and a 20" 1600x1200 LCD (which was decent in my old 10'x10' room). Anyhoo, this is my first actual foray into "middle-fi" HT territory.

[SpOoNmAn]

Oh I definetly plan to push harder. 10% was their initial offer without any negotiation. I plan on picking up the RMB-1075 towards the end of the month. The 950 will come in January. If I like the 950, I'll also get a nice DVD-A player in January. If the 950 isn't to my tastes, I'll return it and go with the 1068, but that will sap my HT budget for January. I'm going to buy things piece by piece because I don't want to rack up any debt or monthly payments.

Nope. This is my first apartment, and when looking for a place I made sure I had a reasonable sized room (18'x12') for HT, and advised my landlord that I would be shaking the house on weekend afternoons (I have the bottom floor of the house and he has the top). A good friend of mine has a nice stereo setup with seperates (adcom stuff) and after listening to his stuff over the past few years, and then auditioning stuff at the local music shops, I developed a serious case of the Gimmie-Gimmies. As I mentioned in the above posts, up until now I've been using a high-end home-built PC with Klipsch speakers and a 20" 1600x1200 LCD (which was decent in my old 10'x10' room). Anyhoo, this is my first actual foray into "middle-fi" HT territory.

in that case, youll fall inlove with whatever pre/pro you get :T

[willbrosk]

Outlaw just dropped the price on the 950 again to 699(not B-stock). Not sure if this temporary or what but at this price im considering selling my yammy reciever and bumping up a bit

[SpOoNmAn]

Outlaw just dropped the price on the 950 again to 699(not B-stock). Not sure if this temporary or what but at this price im considering selling my yammy reciever and bumping up a bit

Ill say this and probably get ridiculed...

Id take the Outlaw 950 and 7100 7 channel amp, which together would cost around 1,500.00, over any flagship receiver from any company, period, regardless of power ratings. That amp sends a lot more current than any receiver will.

That combo would lay waste to any receiver in that price range, and would compete with the ones that are double that price.

Ok, flame away :T

[DrJRapp]

Outlaw just dropped the price on the 950 again to 699(not B-stock). Not sure if this temporary or what but at this price im considering selling my yammy reciever and bumping up a bit

It's becoming more and more obvious that something new looms over the horizon from Outlaw and they are trying to clear out stock before introducing it. If this is the case, then this is the time for caution. The 950 may not be worth very much used in the near future.

[Andrew Pratt]

Ill say this and probably get ridiculed...

Id take the Outlaw 950 and 7100 7 channel amp, which together would cost around 1,500.00, over any flagship receiver from any company, period, regardless of power ratings. That amp sends a lot more current than any receiver will.

That combo would lay waste to any receiver in that price range, and would compete with the ones that are double that price.

Ok, flame away

well you'll have me in your corner at least

[Q-Man]

well you'll have me in your corner at least

I also have to agree.

Outlaw is replacing the 950 sometime in 2005. All I know so far is that it will have balanced outputs, PLIIx, and who knows what elce.

[SpOoNmAn]

Wow, people agreed. I was expecting staunch Receiver advocates to attack me. Oh I forgot, this isnt your average theatre forum :T

I forgot about Outlaws future plans. Silly me.

Ill say this, on 2 accounts I sold my Outlaw gear for almost the same price I paid New. I think that when the new model comes out, people will jump at the chance to pick a used 950 to get into the Seperates family. I think theyll still have a decent resale value. Who knows. :P

[Nick M]

I'm not really worried about resale value, but of initial price and sound quality.

According to Outlaw's newsletter, they will be releasing a new 75Wx2 stereo receiver, a 300Wx7 amp, and a new receiver that is 65Wx7 with DVI switching.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/news/nov04_newproducts.html

No Buzz on other forums about a new 950 that I can find.
I hope the 950 sounds as good as it's reviewed to be.

[DrJRapp]

Nick,

I assure you you won't be dissapointed in the sound...at least for a couple of months till our dreaded disease sets in.