Upgrade bug again!

[markusp]

I always seem to get the upgrade bug around Christmas time so I'd like your opinion on the following. I currently have an Outlaw 950 paired with an Acurus 125x5 amp and Definitive Technology speakers. While everything sounds pretty nice together for movies, it sounds pretty dry for music so I'm toying with the idea of swapping out the pre pro. What do you guys (and gals) feel would be a better pre pro? I typically buy second hand on Audiogon (pre pros and amps) to appease my other half and keep costs down. Right now I am looking at the Rotel 1066 and the B&K reference 30. I am even looking at the Rotel RSX-1055 so that I can have 2 extra channels for a second zone. Do you feel these are a step up or rather a lateral step from the Outlaw 950?

Thanks,
Markus

[Andrew Pratt]

The Rotels do sound better for music but I'm not so sure you'd get your moneys worth going down that path. What are you using for a source and would you consider changing speakers? Also please describe your room.

[markusp]

Thanks Andrew. My room is a bit of a sonic challenge. It is an open concept that rougly measures 15' x 17' with 20' ceilings and the 15' wall is only a half wall leading into the kitchen which resumes again after 9' in height to the ceiling. The room is filled with windows, hardwood and a fireplace but I have tried to tame reflections the best I could by installing blinds, a giant area rug, overstuffed furniture, pillows etc. No room for drapes.

I really like the Definitive Technology speakers as they fill the room with sound much better than the Paradigms and B&W's I owned previously thanks to their bi-polar design. Since these were my major upgrade last Christmas, they need to stay.

As for sources, I have the Outlaw 950 pre pro, the Acurus amp, a Cambridge Audio 540 CD player, a Harman 8550 CD player and a LG upconverting dvd player feeding my Epson 200 projector.

I tried out the Rotel 1055 receiver last Christmas when buying my speakers and liked the sound but couldn't swing the budget so I ended up with a NAD T752 at the time instead. I later upgraded first to a separate amp and then later to the Outlaw 950. At every stage, the sound improved but now while the Outlaw is better for movies (more detailed) I miss the NAD for music.

Thanks,
Markus

[markusp]

I also have the opportunity to get an Audio Refinement Pre-2 DSP for a great price. I think it lists for $2000 CDN new. Would this be a significant improvement?

Thanks,
Markus

[Chris D]

Offhand, it sounds like an upgrade to me!

[TimRawson]

Actually... I'm about to go pick up a Audio Refinement Pre2DSPII at lunch today. They have the orginal, not 'II' version, on audiogon for about 780 or so and you can upgrade the chip to get the II (prologic II, fixes and bm improvements) for 240 bucks at a later time (www.audioplusservices.com).

I chose that unit because it has the bare minimums of what I wanted... Good 2 channel, reputable company-YBA, DD5.1, PL2 (like dtsneo6 better though), adequate bass management (some of the previous gen crystal dsp's had some real quirks, like setting mains to large kills off sub or something like that). I like a nice simple unit. No mention of it's DAC's... hmmm. But planning on music hall or similar "giant killer - audiophile cd" and thus not using prepro dac's for music listening anyway.

I also know somewhat selling an HK Citation 5.0... said to be good 2 channel and has a precursor version of dPL2 (6axis).

I paid 1050 for the new unit (1395 msrp). Suprised not much publicized about this unit - a music/2channel geared prepro at less than 1500?!!! Doesn't have the features, but right now is a time where yet more features are coming. I don't want to spend too much right now, financial and inevitable that will want a new prepro geared more for HT in a few (hopefully several) years.

I can give you my impressions of the Pre2DSPII later tonight and the next few days.

I had a fosgate fapt1 which is the same platform as the outlaw 950 but looks better, lcd display and said to have better opamps. But my opinnion didn't sound too good with music, much like what most say about the outlaw. DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ!... people/person saying it's awesome on 2 channel. IMO, very unimpressed - clean on top, but muddy and lacking on mid-lower freqs.

Biggest separator IMO, do you need the latest and greatest processing, especially ProLogic 2 or DTSNeo6 to provide good surround for tv and such? Are you critical of movies, have READ that most recent chips are an improvement. (not critical myself).... I tend to think source material makes more difference than the device.

[sikoniko]

While everything sounds pretty nice together for movies, it sounds pretty dry for music

Sounds like the characteristics of Definitive Technology speakers.

[markusp]

Thanks Tim - I would definately love to hear your opinion on the pre-2 and how you feel it compares to the fapt1. I am just looking for a pre pro that sounds great for both music and movies but don't need all the extra features that I'll never use.

[markusp]

Sikoniko - I thought about that but they sounded great when I had them paired to the Cambridge Audio and Nad receivers. Unfortunatley the Cambridge Audio didn't work out (tried using it as a pre pro but could not mute system when phone rang and could never get it to work properly with my harmony remote) and the NAD while nice for music wasn't very detailed with movies. That's why I'm hoping a new pre pro will solve my problems.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Outlaw 950

Hi Mark,
I too have the Outlaw 950. I was using it as my standalone pre/pro for movies and music until I realized the same thing you did, while great for movies the 950 is just good for music. However, to get high end quality stereo sound from a theater pre/pro, I would have to spend big bucks. So instead I bought a seperate 2 channel pre amp for music and kept the 950 for theater duty.

I ended up getting a great deal on a Krell 2 channel amp and pre. The preamp has home theater pass through that allows me to use the same speakers and amp for both movies and music, without losing quality.

If I were in your shoes, I would check out the Parasound 850 pre amp. It can be had new at $250.00 and from what I hear, can compete with preamps costing over $1000.00. I think that this will give you much better quality stereo sound than any theater pre, and at the same time cost very little.
The only drawback is that you have another component in your system and you will have to adjust the volume controls to get the right setting. But I know many people who do this with great results.

It would be ideal to have a home theater setup and a seperate stereo setup. But for many, it is too expensive and takes up too much space.

[markusp]

How would I hook up the preamp to my Outlaw 950? Would I use the 7.1 inputs?

Also, can't find the 850 but would an 1100 or 1500 do? Both are on audiogon right now.

Thanks

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Hi Mark,
I only know of the 850 so I cannot comment on the others. Please check out this link, it will help you do what you are looking to do. Good luck.
Jeremy

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141844&highlight=home+theater+pass+through

[CWD]

I own a B&K Ref. 30 and it has one feature that is really helpful if your room demands it as mine did: a notch filter for bass response. My family room is a very open space and given the lack of options as to where I could even put a subwoofer, I had a major "bass boom" hump around 60Hz. If I ever turned up the subwoofer to get more "shake and rattle" going down low, the upper bass would get really annoying (over boosted to the point of grating on my nerves) for music. The notch filter in the Ref. 30 fixed the problem beautifully when I added it to my system. I run a sub/sat arrangement, so all the bass below 80Hz is being directed through the subwoofer which is why this was such a big deal for me. The 5.1 channel input works well, too, but with no bass management, you need a DVD-A/SACD player that handles that for you.

So, I'd recommend the B&K Ref. 30 as an option if you want one pre/pro for music and movies. I'm happy with its music performance, but then again, I do my critical listening downstairs in my own private system that has a Rotel RSP-1068 which is a good value and is even better than the Ref. 30 in my opinion. [Alas, no notch filter, but downstairs, I have the ability to move the subwoofer wherever I like to achieve smooth bass response, so it's not needed!]

Happy choosing!

[markusp]

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