Help me love music again...

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  • BTB
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 198

    Help me love music again...

    Here's one that might trouble a few of you out there too... I'm relatively new to audiophilia (now on 4 years) but I've loved music my whole life. Yet an interesting phenomena has been occuring in my life of late...

    I find my fingers skipping past otherwise great music, when I get to selecting something to listen to... because it doesn't happen to be recorded or produced as well as I'd like. Funny, I'd never noticed that before...? :W

    I'm concerned that I'm going to reduce my entire music collection to five well produced discs, that I only listen to in a darkened room, only during certain phases of the moon, only under certain atmospheric conditions!! :cry:

    Ok, perhaps I'm overstating my point a bit... but still, how do you guys deal with this issue... Can I be a music lover & audiophile at once??
  • Gump
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2005
    • 522

    #2
    This has been touched on in a few threads before and you're absolutely right. The better my system has become the more emphasis I seem to place on the sound quality of the recording vs my "favorite" type of music or artist. Within reason of course, I still haven't delved into the rap-realm yet.

    This has lead to a few high-spirited debates with my friends. They cannot fathom why I would purchase or listen to a style of music or an artist that I wasn't necessarily "into" just because the music sounds good on my system. And the flip-side of course, that a band or cd that I'm a fan of won't spend too much time in my cd player if the SQ is poor. Interesting dichotomy.

    One of the hazards of owning a revealing system I guess. At least it has broadened my musical horizons.

    Comment

    • BTB
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 198

      #3
      Originally posted by Gump
      This has lead to a few high-spirited debates with my friends. They cannot fathom why I would purchase or listen to a style of music or an artist that I wasn't necessarily "into" just because the music sounds good on my system.
      Don't know if I'd go that far myself!! :W

      Didn't realise that this was a well worn topic ops: ... I'm new to these here parts... been spending my time between the B&W/Rotel clubs, and only recently discovered this area.

      I agree about broader musical horizons, I too have been discovering "new" outlets... for my (now) dual music/sound quality fixation. I guess when you put it that way, there is a positive aspect to this.

      Funny, now that I've divorced myself from the musical mainstream (well, not entirely... I did confess my Justin Timberlake sins in another post on this forum ops: ), it shocks me how little most people care about how their music sounds. Just looking at the guys here in my office, who need to replace their recently deceased standard iPod headphones... the concept of spending more than (the equivalent of) $10 (US) is to them a total "high end" luxury! Granted, most of the billion or so "files" (music, it seems, has been de-valued to the point of no longer being referred to as such!) they have on the "pods" are probably so compressed that any more than that expenditure may well be a waste.

      Anyhow, Gump... thanks for the reply, perhaps considering how this topic has been "done" before, maybe there is not enough interest to keep going. Cheers

      Comment

      • Burke Strickland
        Moderator
        • Sep 2001
        • 3161

        #4
        Some people are more in love with their equipment than they are with music (or even movies). That's kind of the fundamental divide --either you are in the hobby for the pride of ownership of the equipment, or you own the equipment to enjoy your music (and movies).

        I think for true music lovers, this fascination with pristine, blockbuster recordings appreciated for the engineering instead of the musicianship is just a phase. The real value of a top rate system is getting to hear the music played back as faithfully as possible to the artist's intentions given the recording technology available to them.

        Although iot is certainly possible for a music lover to distinguish the sonic characteristics of a well recorded album, and appreciate the capabilites of a top rate system, ultimately, it is the music and its performance that makes listening worthwhile (to a music lover).

        Listening only to the "well produced discs" is kind of like always eating dessert instead of including some meat and vegetables in your diet. After a while, unless they contain inspired performances of music with some depth, the stupendous sonic demo discs lose their appeal. In the long run, if you will let it by concentratring on the music, your brain can "filter out" sonic imperfections and allow you to enjoy all types of recordings.

        That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with occasionally listening to a well recorded album just to marvel at the sonic glory and recording prowess of the engineers. But if that remains an obsession which prevents you from enjoying the music you used to love, (and probably still do), then you will be missing the real joy of system ownership.

        Burke

        What you DON'T say may be held against you...

        Comment

        • BTB
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 198

          #5
          Hi Burke

          Thanks for the reply. What you've said regarding the difference between music lovers and Hi Fi lovers is true. I guess that four years into the Hi Fi "hobby" I've been seriously considering the impact it's been having on what has, essentially been a lifelong passion... music.

          It has started to seem ironic to me that the love of music drew me to Hi Fi, and now I realise that my recent technical approach to Hi Fi could potentially destroy my appreciation of music. I suppose I'm attempting to establish a healthier view of hi fi as the tool that it is, to facilitate greater enjoyment of music as opposed to eroding the value of music to that of a tool to drive my Hi-Fi.

          That said, thanks for your well written, well considered reply. Largely what I had imagined... nothing wrong with a good system, but you've got to "let go" of the analysis or end up music-less and unhappy.

          Comment

          • George Bellefontaine
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2001
            • 7637

            #6
            Believe it or not, the first time I heard music was on an old wind-up record player with a horn, similar to what you see with that dog and player on RCA Victor, and at the time I was thrilled. I was even more thrilled with my first record player with its own speaker built in. Then I went the stereo console route and then to separates, and you know, yeah it all sounds better now but I have enjoyed every phase and regardless of what I hear it on, music is still what counts for me.
            My Homepage!

            Comment

            • aud19
              Twin Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2003
              • 16706

              #7
              Yup there's a few recording I have trouble listening to now, (just far too poorly recorded and my system's now too revealing). For the most part though, I still listen to as much music as I can that I love even if it is a little "rough around the edges". My biggest hurdle isn't bad recordings/revealing system, it's time and a family that may not want to listen to what I do as loud as I want to! :lol:

              Also, with your system, when you find music that is both well recorded AND that you REALLY enjoy....well it just doesn't get much better :T
              Jason

              Comment

              • Chris D
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Dec 2000
                • 16877

                #8
                Yes, that is the TRUTH, Jason. That's why I'm so ecstatic about "Money for Nothing" from Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms DVD-A. Good music that I like. Now, if I actually like the music on the Flaming Lips DVD-A I bought, I'd probably like playing it a lot more, too.
                CHRIS

                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                - Pleasantville

                Comment

                • Chris D
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Dec 2000
                  • 16877

                  #9
                  On topic, yes, I just listened again to "One" from Creed's first album, "My Own Prison". Absolutely outstanding song, both musically and lyrically. Very poetic. But doing some critical listening, there's a big hiss in the background, very noticeable in the intro. Distracting.
                  CHRIS

                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                  - Pleasantville

                  Comment

                  • wkhanna
                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 5673

                    #10
                    From my youth, one of my favorite music related memories from the early 70's is the times spent cruising the hills of Western PA with my friends in my old ‘customized’ van listening to the Allman Brothers Band on the cassette deck based multi-amp 6-speaker system I put together. For some reason, the ‘sound’ that I remember of those moments seemed as close to perfection as one could possibly achieve.

                    After some recent upgrades to my current system, I decided to attempt to recapture some of those memories, and bought two CD’s: ‘Beginnings, and Brothers and Sisters’.

                    I could not have been more disappointed. The SQ was absolutely horrid, the frequency range of the recordings seemed like it was about 1000Hz, no bass, no highs, about equivalent to two tin cans and a 30 foot piece of string! I was totally heartbroken. Over thirty years ago I had been listening to the same songs that had been copied from vinyl to cassette tape on a less than stellar system, and played on another system of ‘questionable’ accuracy, and yet we all thought it was one most wonderful things our ears had ever been privileged to experience.

                    So obviously, in this case, it is a matter of how your memories are affected by the people, times and feelings that you associated with them. But it still remains that the SQ of these recordings are a bitt below current standards. The improvements to my system have definitely brought forward deficiencies in certain recordings, and I admit that I am now much more concerned with the recording and engineering quality of purchases that I make. Does this make me a ‘system snob’ as opposed to a music afficionado?

                    Those Allman Brother CDs don’t get nearly the amount play that I expected they would; for background music, they are still appreciated. But for serious listening......it’s more like Chinese Water Torture. It has removed my ability to enjoy the music for what it truly is. Or, maybe it is just a case of trying to return to a time and a place in your mind and memory that you never can. Sometime, maybe the memories are somewhat sweeter than the reality of the actual event.

                    In any event, the fact that some recorded music will ‘sound’ better will always remain. For the time being, I make it a part of criteria that I use for evaluating and choosing music that I purchase. But it will not keep me from buying certain choices that I feel are essential to my library.
                    _


                    Bill

                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                    FinleyAudio

                    Comment

                    • John Holmes
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 2703

                      #11
                      I think for true music lovers, this fascination with pristine, blockbuster recordings appreciated for the engineering instead of the musicianship is just a phase. The real value of a top rate system is getting to hear the music played back as faithfully as possible to the artist's intentions given the recording technology available to them.
                      I think Burke is dead on here. I think it is very much a phase period. And as time goes, we begin to remember just how much we enjoy the music (or movie) for it's content and only appreciate it more, if it happens to be of good quality as well.
                      "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                      Comment

                      • adinfinitum
                        Member
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 63

                        #12
                        If I may chime in with my $0.02. I don't think the two camps are in opposition to one another, in fact they are integrally linked in my experience.

                        My first hi-fi was in the late 80's and consisted of low end NAD CD player into NAD integrated amp then a little later a pair of Boston HD7's (used headphones only for several months). At this time I thought it was the bee's knees but quicky bought CD's and relegated them to the back of the collection as they were flat and lifeless. I was in *hi-fi* and only wanted to hear the best. That system sat unchanged for several years until recently circumstances have allowed a few incremental upgrades. (Skipping a few) the addition of the Rotel Cd player got me excited and I pulled out some of those relegated CD's. Suddenly my enjoyment of the music increased. More recently I've added my 1070 pre/power combo and those flat recordings started to come to life. Most recently added a Naim CD5i and WOW... Some CDs I couldn't listen to for years are now sounding sweet and clear. In fact, it was taking along a couple of average to poor recordings (Deep Purple, Stevie Wonder, Albert King, BB King) that really convinced me to buy both the pre/power upgrade, then the Cd upgrade.

                        My system purchases have only expanded my music repertoire and increased my appreciation of ALL music.

                        Just my experience FWIW.
                        http://www.couchpotatosolutions.com.au/

                        Comment

                        • Gump
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 522

                          #13
                          A little clarification on my position. I'm sitting down....No, No I mean my position on this topic!

                          I have not abandoned my "favorite types of music" to listen to some out of the norm (for me) artist just because the recording engineer was having a good day. However, the fact remains that there are some artists recordings that I would not have gone out of my way to listen to before. But, after hearing them on a quality system, I enjoyed greatly---mainly based on the quality of the sound.

                          Example: I have never been a HUGE Dire Straits fan. Sure I'm familiar with there previous hits and enjoyed them casually. But I never was into them enough to purchase any of their CD's. If one of their songs came on the classic rock station recently I would probably hit another station's button. Then, based mainly on several reviews I read here (thanks Chris and others) I decided to buy the "Brothers in Arms" SACD. The sound is phenominal and it is now one of my favorite CD's to listen to---based almost solely on the quality of the recording. I enjoy the music tremendously.

                          Another example of this is the Michael Mcdonald Motown hits DVD-A. I've never been a huge fan of his. I preferred the "China Grove" era Doobies. But this is now another favorite CD of mine and alot of it has to do with the SQ of that recording.

                          I am a fan of Aerosmith and I just recently bought their greatest hits SACD. Very disappointed in it. Once again I love the music, but the SQ is not very good. It sounds shallow with no depth or fullness. In comparison I put in their "Honkin On Bobo" Cd and the room was filled with the sound due to its great SQ.

                          I'm a fan of Led Zepplin. Try finding a decent SQ CD of theirs; even the digitally re-mastered stuff is borderline. Sounds great on a big boombox though.

                          I could go on and on but hopefully you get the idea. Maybe I am being a traitor to my musical roots but I feel like I've discovered some other very good music to enjoy.

                          Oh, by the way BTB, I wasn't implying that we shouldn't explore this topic based on it being discussed before. I think it's an interesting enigma. There are many themes here that get dissected over and over again. I enjoy them each time. :lol:

                          Comment

                          • bigburner
                            Super Senior Member
                            • May 2005
                            • 2649

                            #14
                            BTB, a good song on a $50 system will always beat a poor song on a $50,000 system. Don't waste any more time on audiophile introspection. There's so much good music out there. Go out and get yourself some.

                            Comment

                            • BTB
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 198

                              #15
                              Hi Big burner...

                              Yeah, read the opinions here, and I have been thinking about it a bit... you (and others here) are right... enough with the audiofool nonsense, sure it's great when sound quality is good, no dispute... but good music should always be enjoyed for what it is, period.

                              Why just this week I picked up a bunch of CD's, incl. the new "At war with the Mystics" album by the Flaming Lips and the "old"..."Californication" album by the 'Chilli Peppers... (along with some serious, chin stroking stuff of course). Anyway, I just got so caught up in the fun of it all (my wife too) and suddenly the perfectionist audio business didn't matter that much.

                              Thanks to all who have added their thoughts... appreciated. Happy listening. :T

                              Comment

                              • Kobus
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 402

                                #16
                                Funny, I just came here from my "sound room" after watching a recently purchased music dvd for the first time. A live compilation with all my favourites of the 70's / early 80's (live aid). Man was it disappointing in terms of sound quality.

                                It might work for background, or in fact I might return it. Sad... I really wanted to enjoy it, it is so poor that you don't even want to turn up the volume.

                                This is only an example, I have had the experience before, and including some so called remastered stuff.

                                And this has nothing to do with snobbish or whatever. If I create the listening time for myself, switch on my system and relax, I expect a certain level of recording.

                                For serious listening I can not enjoy a poorly recorded cd/dvd.

                                But fortunately there are plenty of good stuff out there.


                                Kobus

                                Comment

                                • Alaric
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 4143

                                  #17
                                  Code:
                                  I'm a fan of Led Zepplin. Try finding a decent SQ CD of theirs; even the digitally re-mastered stuff is borderline. Sounds great on a big boombox though.
                                  Code:
                                  I am a fan of Aerosmith and I just recently bought their greatest hits SACD. Very disappointed in it. Once again I love the music, but the SQ is not very good. It sounds shallow with no depth or fullness. In comparison I put in their "Honkin On Bobo" Cd and the room was filled with the sound due to its great SQ.
                                  EXACTLY! I wasted money (twice!) to see Aerosmith live-I would have been better off Honkin' On Bobo.I have a couple of thier albums-vinyl-and love them.Maybe the digital remastering was done by people who only use Ipods....I have whined/complained/griped/bitched in this very forum about the SQ of Zeppelin CDs.Drives me nuts.I hear just enough to tease me with the potential of the music. I have a Japanese release of Led Zep 4 , also vinyl , that blows away the Japanese CD release!And I don't think even SACD will ever do justice to The Song Remains The Same.
                                  On the plus side , I've discovered Sheryl Crow , Natalie Merchant , and rediscovered Linda Ronstadt , early Debbie Harry and maintained my teenage audio-lust with Heart. ( Couple other lusts with the Heart thing.....Diggity-diggity...)
                                  The turntable is your friend....it's not obsolete....vinyl is good ....turning the album over is exercise ....tonearms and stylii give you things to tweak ....
                                  Lee

                                  Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                  Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                  Schiit Modi 3
                                  Marantz CD5005
                                  Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                  Comment

                                  • aud19
                                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2003
                                    • 16706

                                    #18
                                    The LZ box set of CD's is pretty good SQ and the second disc of the DVD released a year or two ago is also pretty good, FYI. I hear the Toys in the Attic SACD is pretty good but if I remember correctly has no CD layer :rant:
                                    Jason

                                    Comment

                                    • Bob
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jul 2000
                                      • 802

                                      #19
                                      Help Me Love Music Again
                                      That's easy. Put down the remote control, get off the couch, and start going out at night with your wife dancing and listening to live music. Your audiophile system should only be for the times when there isn't anything live going on, IMHO and I know that I'm in a extreme minority with this point of view.
                                      Avoid large venues with loudspeaker systems that sound like your high school principal anouncing to a classroom that there will be a meeting of the chess club after school at 3:00. Find small clubs or bars where they play music you and your wife like and go have some fun, then listening to your system will be reminders of those times.
                                      And when you do listen at home use a turntable, it has no remote so you have to actually listen to the music instead of getting in the habit of skipping tracks.
                                      By the way, The Flaming Lips are just such a band that played in no name little bars and clubs for years. See my thread on Mozart.
                                      Oh yeah, and screw anybody's reference music list. Who cares how perfect some female singer can sing one more version of Over The Rainbow. Stand up and be proud if you like country, rock, rap, folk, and world music just as much as jazz and classical. Don't be afraid to admit that you think the Beatles were just another pop band for 12 year old girls while the real music was happening in San Francisco, L.A., and Chicago during that same period in time. Ahh, what was the question again?

                                      Comment

                                      • Chris D
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Dec 2000
                                        • 16877

                                        #20
                                        Ummmm.... okay, then!
                                        CHRIS

                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                        - Pleasantville

                                        Comment

                                        • George Bellefontaine
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Jan 2001
                                          • 7637

                                          #21
                                          Well said, Bob. :T
                                          My Homepage!

                                          Comment

                                          • Alaric
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Jan 2006
                                            • 4143

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by John Holmes
                                            I think Burke is dead on here. I think it is very much a phase period. And as time goes, we begin to remember just how much we enjoy the music (or movie) for it's content and only appreciate it more, if it happens to be of good quality as well.

                                            Well said.BTW , I noticed the movie your signature line quotes isn't listed among your DVDs.Does this mean I still have to keep my VHS copy? I keep hoping it will be released on DVD but it seems Rowdy Roddy Piper isn't in demand!
                                            Have you seen Hell Comes To Frogtown?
                                            Lee

                                            Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                            Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                            Schiit Modi 3
                                            Marantz CD5005
                                            Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                            Comment

                                            • Russ L
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jul 2006
                                              • 544

                                              #23
                                              BTB- My attempt to help. I've recently started to enjoy music again, asmuch as I did when I was a teenager (30yrs ago). A number of artists have been responsible for this revitalization. One day four months ago I decided to stop listening to these favourite performers on my Mac and its HK speakers and sub (decent for a computer) and take my much loved Hayley Westenra CD down to the local HI-FI store to see how she sounded on one of todays Audio systems. The first system I listened to was a Cambridge Audio Amp and B&W 602s. It was a religious experience! I couldn't believe Hayley could sound that good!:E She was already incredible on my Mac. So thats what its all about. How the Hi-Fi helps the music we love. Thats why I'm crazy about spending all my money on Rotels and B&Ws:T Russ
                                              Russ

                                              Comment

                                              • John Holmes
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 2703

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Alaric
                                                Well said.BTW , I noticed the movie your signature line quotes isn't listed among your DVDs.Does this mean I still have to keep my VHS copy? I keep hoping it will be released on DVD but it seems Rowdy Roddy Piper isn't in demand!
                                                Have you seen Hell Comes To Frogtown?
                                                Hahaha, Alaric,

                                                You make a very good point as well. I've been buying "They Live" for yrs. For some reason or another, I forget to purchase it. And yes it is on DVD. Thanks for the reminder. 8)

                                                And no, I have not seen "Hell Comes To Frogtown" However, I'll put it in my rental queue today.

                                                Back on topic.
                                                Music is an outlet. At the end of the day, the listener should be satisfied with the session. This will come in different forms for different people. If the quality of the recording is just as important as the music itself, then by all means, do not settle for less.

                                                When I listen, my moods very. As does the genre and my concerns about quality sound.
                                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                Comment

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