Record Player (Reviving an Older)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • mattsk8
    Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 62

    Record Player (Reviving an Older)

    Hope I'm posting in the right spot; my dad has a Pioneer PL 707 record player and he's looking for a new cartridge. Anyone here have any suggestions? He picked one up because some (1/2) of his records sounded kind of warbly if that makes sense. The problem is now, with his new cartridge, his high speed masters sound warbly! I don't know anything about record players and I'm just trying to help him out. I'm 36, married w/ 4 kids and don't live at home just FYI, but still want to see the old man happy :T !

    On another note, what's the best sounding anything to play music through? Record player, cd player, etc? Just curious what gives the best sound. I've been told records but when I listen to them they sound tinny and just bad. Just curious what everyone here has to say about it.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life :T
  • Alaric
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 4143

    #2
    First , go here http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...tractors.shtml and get a protractor for aligning the new cartridge. As for "the best sounding anything" , do you see all those wiggly things by your feet? That's the can of worms you just opened! LOL. That question has no real answer , or more properly , has more answers than we can possibly cover. A good start would be telling us what the rest of his system consists of. For a basic , low-cost setup , a half-decent CD player has a lot to offer in terms of maintenance (none) , ease of use , cost , etc.. I prefer vinyl but I spent more than you may be looking to fork out right away.
    Or , a modestly priced integrated or receiver with a USB input and a laptop computer could be the hot setup. The value of any of these components will also hinge on the speakers' ability to take advantage of them.
    And you thought it was a simple question...
    Lee

    Marantz PM7200-RIP
    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
    Schiit Modi 3
    Marantz CD5005
    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

    Comment

    • Glen B
      Super Senior Member
      • Jul 2004
      • 1106

      #3
      Originally posted by mattsk8
      Hope I'm posting in the right spot; my dad has a Pioneer PL 707 record player and he's looking for a new cartridge. Anyone here have any suggestions? He picked one up because some (1/2) of his records sounded kind of warbly if that makes sense. The problem is now, with his new cartridge, his high speed masters sound warbly! I don't know anything about record players and I'm just trying to help him out. I'm 36, married w/ 4 kids and don't live at home just FYI, but still want to see the old man happy :T !

      On another note, what's the best sounding anything to play music through? Record player, cd player, etc? Just curious what gives the best sound. I've been told records but when I listen to them they sound tinny and just bad. Just curious what everyone here has to say about it.
      Good recommendations above from Lee. The old man could always take the turntable to a local audio store or repair shop and ask them to help check out and adjust it. "Warbly" sounds like there may be more than cartridge misalignment going on.


      Comment

      • mattsk8
        Member
        • Oct 2011
        • 62

        #4
        Originally posted by Alaric
        A good start would be telling us what the rest of his system consists of. For a basic , low-cost setup , a half-decent CD player has a lot to offer in terms of maintenance (none) , ease of use , cost , etc.. I prefer vinyl but I spent more than you may be looking to fork out right away.
        Or , a modestly priced integrated or receiver with a USB input and a laptop computer could be the hot setup. The value of any of these components will also hinge on the speakers' ability to take advantage of them.
        And you thought it was a simple question...
        He has a vintage Pioneer SX-1250 receiver, a Sony 300 disc changer, and the Pioneer record player. He purchased the record player on ebay for $550, it's direct drive and older as well to match his receiver. As for speakers, right now he has older Pioneer 3 ways but I'm not sure what model. I'm currently building him a pair of statements. Thanks for the link BTW!! I'll look into it for sure. I do think it's something related to the cartridge just because his good records sounded good before the cartridge change and his older records sounded warbly. Now his older records sound better but his 1/2 speed masters sound warbly.

        As far as the "what sounds best" question; that was for me. I have a decent Yamaha RX-V1065 receiver and a blue ray w/ JBL surrounds for movies, and I have a vintage Pioneer SX-950 for music. I'm building speakers for my Pioneer receiver right now as well, they're MTM Towers designed by Dennis Murphy and Paul Kittinger. I also have a smaller Kenwood receiver w/ some tritrix I built out in my garage. I was just curious what the opinions on cd verses ipod, verses record player, verses computer, verses cassette, 8 track, etc. My main reason for wondering is that I spend all this money on decent speakers, receivers etc; but thought maybe I'm not getting the best sound through my ipod or cd player. Was wondering if there was something that played back better sound. I was listening to Pandora through my cell on my garage stereo and thinking about how crappy it sounded compared to my ipod; that was what got me thinking about it. Based on what I've listened to so far, IMO a good cd sounds the best. But, I don't think I've ever heard a really good record player either.
        If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life :T

        Comment

        • Alaric
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 4143

          #5
          You guys have some very nice , and sought after , receivers. With the speakers you have in mind you should have some good quality sound. The early Pioneer "house sound" should lend itself to CD playback nicely. While vinyl is my favorite medium , the Pioneers should help with the edginess of some digital sources. I would definitely check the alignment of the cartridge and make sure there are no ground feedback issues , and place the table away from the speakers. Too close to a speaker can give you some funny feedback issues as well. See my posts here http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=39065 Also check the tracking weight recommended for the cartridge and possible adjustment of that regarding the tonearm. An older direct drive TT may also have some oil in the shaft/motor bearings that has gummed up. An inexpensive record cleaning brush and solution are must-haves.
          Finally , 1/2 speed master albums take quite a few plays to break in and sound right. They are pressed on virgin vinyl and the irregularities from pressing need to be worn down before you get all the album has to offer. Welcome to HTGuide and have fun! We have forums for many interests and some very knowledgeable folks available here. If you can't find an answer here , someone can point you to where to find it.
          Lee

          Marantz PM7200-RIP
          Marantz PM-KI Pearl
          Schiit Modi 3
          Marantz CD5005
          Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

          Comment

          • mattsk8
            Member
            • Oct 2011
            • 62

            #6
            Thanks for all the incredible info Lee :T ! I'll get over to his house and try to figure it all out, then post the results. Hope it is just some maintance issues. As far as the weight on the arm is concerned, is there instruction for balancing that as well on either of the links you posted? I haven't read through them much yet.
            If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life :T

            Comment

            • Alaric
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 4143

              #7
              Everything should be here http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-707.shtml
              You'll have to register (free) to have access to the manuals. Lots of good stuff on the site. Good luck! Let us know how it turns out. :T
              Lee

              Marantz PM7200-RIP
              Marantz PM-KI Pearl
              Schiit Modi 3
              Marantz CD5005
              Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

              Comment

              • madmac
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2010
                • 3122

                #8
                Originally posted by mattsk8
                Hope I'm posting in the right spot; my dad has a Pioneer PL 707 record player and he's looking for a new cartridge. Anyone here have any suggestions? He picked one up because some (1/2) of his records sounded kind of warbly if that makes sense. The problem is now, with his new cartridge, his high speed masters sound warbly! I don't know anything about record players and I'm just trying to help him out. I'm 36, married w/ 4 kids and don't live at home just FYI, but still want to see the old man happy :T !

                On another note, what's the best sounding anything to play music through? Record player, cd player, etc? Just curious what gives the best sound. I've been told records but when I listen to them they sound tinny and just bad. Just curious what everyone here has to say about it.

                "Warbly" sounds like a speed issue. Is it belt drive?. If so, the belt needs to be replaced. If it's direct drive, then the motor is not operating correctly. As for the best sound and being an audio forum, many people here like vinyl. I for one prefer a well recorded CD for music. :W
                Dan Madden :T

                Comment

                • Glen B
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 1106

                  #9
                  Originally posted by mattsk8
                  Thanks for all the incredible info Lee :T As far as the weight on the arm is concerned, is there instruction for balancing that as well on either of the links you posted?
                  The procedure for balancing all static balance arms is basically the same. The user's manual for the PL-707, which is available at The Vinyl Engine linked to above, has instructions for balancing and adjusting the arm, and setting tracking and antiskating forces.
                  Last edited by Glen B; 08 November 2011, 15:33 Tuesday.


                  Comment

                  • mattsk8
                    Member
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 62

                    #10
                    You guys are amazing :T !!! Thanks for all the incredible info and especially for the link to the manual downloads! Downloaded the owners manual and the service manual. I printed the owners manual and gave it to my dad. Hopefully he can figure it out. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

                    Just out of curiosity, how do you know what cartridge to purchase for a record player? What I mean is, I don't know what led him (my dad) to the one he purchased; all I know is that it was a Shure cartridge. You guys have any recommendations here? I do know his needle is getting pretty skimpy.
                    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life :T

                    Comment

                    • gimpy
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 119

                      #11
                      Also, since he has vintage, you might try Audiokarma.net (or org, not sure). They have a lot of forums for older players, receivers, etc.

                      Comment

                      • Glen B
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 1106

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mattsk8
                        You guys are amazing :T !!! Thanks for all the incredible info and especially for the link to the manual downloads! Downloaded the owners manual and the service manual. I printed the owners manual and gave it to my dad. Hopefully he can figure it out. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

                        Just out of curiosity, how do you know what cartridge to purchase for a record player? What I mean is, I don't know what led him (my dad) to the one he purchased; all I know is that it was a Shure cartridge. You guys have any recommendations here? I do know his needle is getting pretty skimpy.
                        There are cartridges for home use and cartridges for professional use. Of the ones for home use, these come as either moving magnet (MM) type or moving coil (MC) type. The latter require a "head amp" stage or step-up transformer, and tend to be more favored by some audiophiles. Their stylii (needles) also tend to be non-user-replaceable versus the moving magnet type. The MC cartridge owner either needs to have it retipped, or exchanged for a new one.

                        You can use almost any brand/model cartridge of your choice. Shure cartridges have been a longtime favorite of audio enthusiasts over the past few decades, and are a safe bet. I have owned a number of Shures in my time. What model cartridge did your dad purchase ? The M97XE is a decent model. The M44-X series feature primarily very high output, rugged stylus, skip resistance, higher tracking force, and are meant for DJ use.

                        If the needle in youd dad's cartridge is visbly "skimpy", that means it has substantial wear, and is well past the need for replacement. If he continues to use it in that condition, it will permanently damage his record collection. A stylus should be inspected for wear periodically and replaced as necessary. That is where the audio dealer can be your friend. A decent dealer that carries analog playback gear should have the equipment necessary to inspect a cartridge, and knowledge to help with turntable setup. See the following wiki.



                        Comment

                        • mattsk8
                          Member
                          • Oct 2011
                          • 62

                          #13
                          W/ help from the manual downloads, thanks btw :T , we've got the record player working well. Still needs a cartridge, the old needle is getting pretty tiny, but it plays well.

                          Given the 3 options I had available to me, the record definitely reproduces sound better. We first used Neil Diamond's Forever In Blue Jeans. Let me first say, it's amazing how much is lost when you dump music down to mp3 or aac, etc. I've gradually accepted this for it's convenience but have forgotten over time just how much is lost. Ironic that I'll spend thousands on speakers only to play my music through them via an ipod!

                          As far as listening details between the 3, ipod, cd player and record player, we first started out w/ ipod verses record player. I had to turn the ipod's volume down considerably to match the record player's level. What a HUGE difference between the ipod and the record. TONS more detail through a record!

                          Since I didn't have Neil Diamond on cd, we compared the cd to the record using The Police's Invisible Sun. While this wasn't night and day from cd to record, it was still very noticeably better via the record. A lot more distinction through the record. Between the ipod and the record it was a big difference w/ the Police as well. The Police record we used was also very old, fairly worn and still won the sound off hands down!

                          For me, I would definitely say in terms of sound reproduction, from best to worst it would be record, cd, then ipod. I only wish I had an SACD to also compare w/.
                          If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life :T

                          Comment

                          • Chris D
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Dec 2000
                            • 16877

                            #14
                            Oh, yeah. I grew up on Neil Diamond on vinyl. Have his best stuff on CD--Moods, The Jazz Singer, and his Greatest Hits. Don't bother getting his new stuff though. Lounge singer crap.
                            CHRIS

                            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                            - Pleasantville

                            Comment

                            • madmac
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 3122

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Chris D
                              Oh, yeah. I grew up on Neil Diamond on vinyl. Have his best stuff on CD--Moods, The Jazz Singer, and his Greatest Hits. Don't bother getting his new stuff though. Lounge singer crap.

                              Many years ago, I found what was claimed to be and I quote the CD package:

                              Neil Diamond - His 12 greatest hits

                              "state of the art-digitally remastered from the original masters" with complete artwork.

                              The sound, despite the age of the recordings is unbelievable. "Soolaimon' just blows your socks off. :E
                              Dan Madden :T

                              Comment

                              • Chris D
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Dec 2000
                                • 16877

                                #16
                                Hey, thanks for the scoop! This is the CD collection that I most enjoy now: Glory Road




                                Now Mac, which of these is the one you're talking about? The white one is supposedly a 2012 remastering. Both are available on Amazon. I see that it includes "Play Me", which is one of my favorite love songs and often my favorite choice when I encounter Karaoke. After that, I've got a bunch of other favorites, and "Song Sung Blue" is definitely one of them. Wish I could see him in concert sometime. (oh, and I see that there's a "His Greatest Hits II" also)





                                CHRIS

                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                - Pleasantville

                                Comment

                                • Chris D
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Dec 2000
                                  • 16877

                                  #17
                                  Oh, and NEIL DIAMOND wrote Red, Red Wine. Not UB40, dammit!
                                  Last edited by Chris D; 25 January 2012, 19:55 Wednesday.
                                  CHRIS

                                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                  - Pleasantville

                                  Comment

                                  • Alaric
                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 4143

                                    #18
                                    Neai Diamond wrote a lot of songs. My daughter recently discovered the Monkees , who benefitted greatly from Mr. Diamond's talents.
                                    Lee

                                    Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                    Schiit Modi 3
                                    Marantz CD5005
                                    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                    Comment

                                    • madmac
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2010
                                      • 3122

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Chris D
                                      Hey, thanks for the scoop! This is the CD collection that I most enjoy now: Glory Road




                                      Now Mac, which of these is the one you're talking about? The white one is supposedly a 2012 remastering. Both are available on Amazon. I see that it includes "Play Me", which is one of my favorite love songs and often my favorite choice when I encounter Karaoke. After that, I've got a bunch of other favorites, and "Song Sung Blue" is definitely one of them. Wish I could see him in concert sometime. (oh, and I see that there's a "His Greatest Hits II" also)








                                      The
                                      second 'white one' is mine.....unbelievable remastering!! :E
                                      Dan Madden :T

                                      Comment

                                      • Chris D
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Dec 2000
                                        • 16877

                                        #20
                                        Ah, cool, Mac. I would have thought that it was the first one. There's a comment on Amazon for the white one, that it's different from the 1974 recording, and some live recordings have been substituted for the original studio recordings. I'll go ahead and pick it up, though!

                                        Originally posted by Alaric
                                        Neai Diamond wrote a lot of songs. My daughter recently discovered the Monkees , who benefitted greatly from Mr. Diamond's talents.
                                        That's right! Specifically, not many people know that he first recorded "I'm a Believer", which the Monkees were very well known for!

                                        (now we're REALLY getting off topic, but I also have a soap box that BILLY JOEL wrote "Shameless", and NOT, repeat, NOT Garth Brooks!!!!)
                                        CHRIS

                                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                        - Pleasantville

                                        Comment

                                        • Alaric
                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 4143

                                          #21
                                          Well , if we're OT , how about Hoyt Axton? :B
                                          Lee

                                          Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                          Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                          Schiit Modi 3
                                          Marantz CD5005
                                          Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                          Comment

                                          • wkhanna
                                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Jan 2006
                                            • 5673

                                            #22
                                            Step away from the keyboard, gentleman.....
                                            I think I'm gonna be ill........ :gah:

                                            :W
                                            _


                                            Bill

                                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                            FinleyAudio

                                            Comment

                                            • wkhanna
                                              Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Jan 2006
                                              • 5673

                                              #23
                                              With Sincere Apologies for Any Unintended Interpretation

                                              Originally posted by wkhanna
                                              Step away from the keyboard, gentleman.....
                                              I think I'm gonna be ill........ :gah:

                                              :W
                                              I am the first to admit it. I can come off like a real SOB snob sometimes.
                                              My intent was to poke a little good natured fun towards some of you guys that I hope know me pretty well by now.

                                              This place is and should be about the MUSIC first. Any and all music, and discussion of music is encouraged, regardless of personal preferences. All discussions and opinions are to be respected, again, regardless of personal preferences. If I offended any one, please know it was not intentional. The internet can be that way sometimes. Posts tend to be short (something I seem to not understand as I lean towards the wordy end of the spectrum) and can be misinterpreted. This is still no excuse. I will make renewed efforts to be sure to show a bit more respect from now on, especially when making my vain attempts at trite humor.

                                              Now carry on, gents, your visits and posts are what make this place work.
                                              Last edited by wkhanna; 29 January 2012, 18:40 Sunday.
                                              _


                                              Bill

                                              Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                              ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                              FinleyAudio

                                              Comment

                                              Working...
                                              😀
                                              😂
                                              🥰
                                              😘
                                              🤢
                                              😎
                                              😞
                                              😡
                                              👍
                                              👎
                                              Searching...Please wait.
                                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                              An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                              There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                              Search Result for "|||"