What two ch amp is best for me? Help me spend my money!

[Finleyville]

Anyway...

I just finished building a pair of Finalist speakers found in the DIY section and now need a nice 2 channel amp. Since the Finalists are rated as a 6 ohm speaker with dips down to 4 ohms and only a 83dB sensitivity rating these are hungry speakers. A high current design with a minimum of 150W/ch is required. I want to buy this amp ONCE and not look back. However, funds are an issue (when aren't they?) so I am looking for used pieces. I have narrowed my choices down to the following in basic order.

Odyssey Stratos [150W/ch] : $1275 new without any factory tweaks
McCormack DNA-1 [185W/ch] : $800-1000 used
Bryston 4b (st and newer versions are still too pricey) [200W/ch] : $650-850 used
PS Audio 200C [200W/ch] : $550-800 used
Onkyo Integra M-504 [165W/ch] : $500-700 used
Adcom GFA-555 mk 1 [200W/ch] : $300-500 used


So, has anyone personally listened to any of these? What are your thoughts?

[Face]

Not many on the used market, but check out Wyred 4 Sound's ST-500.

[Burke Strickland]

Bryston 4b (st and newer versions are still too pricey) [200W/ch] : $650-850 used

Can't go wrong with high current, high value Bryston power amps driving "inefficient" speakers. I'd be driving my Magnepan MG 3.6 speakers with a Bryston 4B (which I tried in my system and liked a lot) if I hadn't gotten a killer deal on some 7B SST monoblocks. The 4B has terrific sound, just slightly less overall headroom than the 7B's when playing music in a large room. On a budget, the used 4B in good condition would be a great choice.

[BWLover]

Rotel RB-1090!


Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app

[Glen B]

Classe CA-150 and CA-200 should be on the list, both in the $1,000 to $1,250 range.

[jim1961]

Classe CA-150 and CA-200 should be on the list, both in the $1,000 to $1,250 range.

...or a pair of CA-100's bridged (350 watts/channel) for about that money

[PewterTA]

A little out of the price range... but I've heard amazing things about this amp.... Job225

http://www.jobsys.com/products.htm

[Johnloudb]

Not sure what to recommend, but think you would do well with either Classe or Bryston amps. I have heard older Classe stuff and really liked it, DR-8 specifically. But I have owned the McCormack DNA-1 and you should stay away from that. While it has a pleasant sound it really has underdamped bass (bass bloom) and the detail is not the best. It has to many warm fuzzys that take away from the music, IMHO.

[Finleyville]

Not sure what to recommend, but think you would do well with either Classe or Bryston amps. I have heard older Classe stuff and really liked it, DR-8 specifically. But I have owned the McCormack DNA-1 and you should stay away from that. While it has a pleasant sound it really has underdamped bass (bass bloom) and the detail is not the best. It has to many warm fuzzys that take away from the music, IMHO.

You are the first person that I have heard that didn't like that McCormack DNA amp. There is one on eBay right now that I was going to pick up today.

Crap. I thought I had this all figured out....

I am looking for what most everybody is looking for in an amp: Powerful, quick, detailed without being harsh, deep without being bloated.

Classe was in the running but everyone wants top dollar for theirs, and I have not found anyone with a reasonable price.

[jim1961]

You are the first person that I have heard that didn't like that McCormack DNA amp. There is one on eBay right now that I was going to pick up today.

Crap. I thought I had this all figured out....

I am looking for what most everybody is looking for in an amp: Powerful, quick, detailed without being harsh, deep without being bloated.

Classe was in the running but everyone wants top dollar for theirs, and I have not found anyone with a reasonable price.

Over at Audiogon, there is a Classe CA-150 for $1000, and a S-700 for $1350. And a Bryston 3B-ST for $899

[Glen B]

Classe was in the running but everyone wants top dollar for theirs, and I have not found anyone with a reasonable price.

What do you consider top dollar and reasonable ? The vast majority of Classe amps I see on sale are more than fairly priced, and commensurate with their condition.

[Johnloudb]

You are the first person that I have heard that didn't like that McCormack DNA amp. There is one on eBay right now that I was going to pick up today.

Crap. I thought I had this all figured out....

I am looking for what most everybody is looking for in an amp: Powerful, quick, detailed without being harsh, deep without being bloated.

Classe was in the running but everyone wants top dollar for theirs, and I have not found anyone with a reasonable price.

Some people like the warm fuzzys, and it may mate well with some speakers. The DNA-1 has a low damping factor of about 100. So likely not the best choice for a low impedance, insensitive speaker. Still our speakers were very sensitive, high impeadance, and it still really didn't control the bottom end. Not that we didn't enjoy it, but I wouldn't choose that amp again.

[wkhanna]

Published specs from manufactures can be helpful for culling through a lot of equipment, but I usually take them with a grain of salt.
As always, let your ears be the judge.

But one spec that that has proven to reliable in my experience when comparing an amps performance relative to the units specs is Damping Factor.
A reflection of how well an amp controls the driver from over-excursion, Damping Factor will generally correlate to how well an amp produces accurate, tight low end performance.

If it were me, I would want to demo an amp with such a low DF before I purchased it.

JMHO YMMV

[JonMarsh]

Used Aragons. 8008BB, or X3. Palladiums are good, too, but harder to find and more expensive. I own all of the above, that I still keep them and haven't sold them when other things come and go says something.

A used Ayre V-5 is also a great choice, and is a bit more forgiving of associated components.

new, an Ayre VX-5 is intriguing do to the use of a diamond configuration output stage, a concept originally developed for IC input stages...

[impala454]

Emotiva XPA-2 ($900 new) http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/...ts/xpa-2-gen-2

[Hdale85]

Yeah I was going to say the Aragon and Ayre amps are quite loved all over.

[Finleyville]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

Since I have tweaked the crossover in my Finalists they are really screaming for a neutral sounding amp. I have highs and lows galore with a fantastic midrange. So I really think that these speakers will show the amps nature. Therefore, I am looking for a very neutral sounding amp.

I have not heard Classe, Aragon, or Bryston. Actually there is a lot that I haven't heard. If I was buying new then perhaps auditioning the piece would be easier to do with the help from the dealer. However, to get the most from my dollar I wish to buy used. That makes listening beforehand more difficult.

From reading sooooo much so far on the internet (and we all know that everything on the internet is true! :roll these are the impressions that I have received: Bryston is slightly bright, built like a tank, and best in warranty. Classe is more refined, softer in sound, close to tubes. Emotiva hits like a tank, good deal for the money, cold and bright. Krell is overbuilt, emphasizes the lower register to the detriment of everything else. Adcom is a good place to start for not a lot of money, sounds grainy and bright. I know absolutely nothing about Aragon....hmmmmm.


Here are some different amps that are currently found on the 'Gon that I have no idea about. Can someone here shed some light?

Belles 150A

Proceed HPA2

Threshold 400A

Also, to you Classe uses, have any of you heard the Classe S-700?

[Johnloudb]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

Since I have tweaked the crossover in my Finalists they are really screaming for a neutral sounding amp. I have highs and lows galore with a fantastic midrange. So I really think that these speakers will show the amps nature. Therefore, I am looking for a very neutral sounding amp.

I have not heard Classe, Aragon, or Bryston. Actually there is a lot that I haven't heard. If I was buying new then perhaps auditioning the piece would be easier to do with the help from the dealer. However, to get the most from my dollar I wish to buy used. That makes listening beforehand more difficult.

From reading sooooo much so far on the internet (and we all know that everything on the internet is true! :roll these are the impressions that I have received: Bryston is slightly bright, built like a tank, and best in warranty. Classe is more refined, softer in sound, close to tubes. Emotiva hits like a tank, good deal for the money, cold and bright. Krell is overbuilt, emphasizes the lower register to the detriment of everything else. Adcom is a good place to start for not a lot of money, sounds grainy and bright. I know absolutely nothing about Aragon....hmmmmm.


Here are some different amps that are currently found on the 'Gon that I have no idea about. Can someone here shed some light?

Belles 150A

Proceed HPA2

Threshold 400A

Also, to you Classe uses, have any of you heard the Classe S-700?

The A400 is a great amp from all reports I've heard, a real classic designed by Nelson Pass. It's also an older amp and may have some problems down the road. May need capacitor replacement soon. The asking price is a bit high in my opinion.

More A400 fun! http://www.kenealeyaudio.com/rebuildpackages.asp

For that price you might want to consider this amp, that Hank just pointed to in my Dipole Speaker thread. And it's new!!!

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-stereo.html

Absolute Sound Review of the cheaper Odyssey amp in Absolute sound -

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tas-195-odyssey-audio-khartago-stereo-amplifier/

This might be a great choice for your speaker, and a 30 day money back policy. From the review linked to above -

"I’m not saying you should run out and buy one of these things instead of a Soulution 710 or 700 if you own or are planning to purchase Magico M5s or Wilson MAXX 3s or Rockport Arraki (although, if you’re pinching pennies on the rest of your system to leverage a pair of pricey speakers, you could do plenty worse than the Khartago). What I am saying is that the Odyssey amp gives you more of the taste of the high-priced spread than I thought possible for $995 (or anywhere near that price). And since the Khartago works into loads as low as 2 ohms, it mates up with virtually anything—not just Magico M5s. But don’t take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Odyssey offers the Khartago (and all its products) with a 30-day, no-questions-asked, money-back return policy. There is no “restocking” fee.

If all that isn’t good news, then I’m fresh out of headlines."

SPECS & PRICING
Odyssey Audio Khartago Stereo Amplifier

Power: 115Wpc RMS @ 8 ohms
Bandwidth: 2Hz–400kHz
Current: 40 amps
Distortion:<0.04% THD
Damping factor: >500 continuous damping factor
Input impedance: >22kOhms
Inputs: One pair RCA
Weight: 30 lbs.
Dimensions: 18" x 18.5" x 4"
Price: $799 ($995 as supplied)

[Finleyville]

TY John.

As in my OP the bigger brother, Odyssey Stratos, is one I was considering. I do not know if 115W/ch will do it for me. There is one on the 'Gon right now. I may pick it up.... hmmmmm.

[Johnloudb]

TY John.

As in my OP the bigger brother, Odyssey Stratos, is one I was considering. I do not know if 115W/ch will do it for me. There is one on the 'Gon right now. I may pick it up.... hmmmmm.

Oh, yeah. I missed that in your first post. Did not know about Odyssey amps till Hank posted about them.

[wkhanna]

As I recently posted in another thread concerning the Odyssey room at this year's Capital Audiofest:

" When we stepped into the Odyssey Audio room they had a complete system consisting of CDp, pre-amp, amp & speakers with a total retail cost of under $6k that was competitive with just about any other offering at the show. In fact it down right beat the stink’n crap out many systems 3x its price."

[PewterTA]

I'd call Klaus!!!!

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/07/31/caf-2013-odyssey-audio/

[wkhanna]

That is the same guy we talked to at the show.

[Finleyville]

I made a decision! I bought an amp!

I will post up what I purchased and some pictures when I have auditioned everything first.

I want to thank everyone who responded. Your personal experiences and suggestions were invaluable in my search. Plus, if this particular amp doesn't work out then I have this thread to fall back on to try again.

[Finleyville]

Well......


Since wkhanna let the cat out of the bag with THIS post, I guess I will 'fess up with my purchase. :P


That was my Odyssey Khartago Plus we were listening to at PewterTA's house. I have to admit I was hesitant at first about the purchase. However, after hooking them up to the B&W's and hearing how close they sounded while giving up 275W/ch to the Rotel, I was relieved. Then once we connected the Finalists to the Odyssey I was smiling ear to ear. In fact, if you were milling around in the back of the room and not critically listening, it was not readily apparent which set of speakers were playing to me. (And I LOVE those B&W's.)

So......since I loved the amp so much......I ordered and had delivered an Odyssey Khartago EXTREME! I have not listened to this one yet. But when it is broken in I will provide a full report in the aforementioned Odyssey Amps thread!

[Johnloudb]

Well......


Since wkhanna let the cat out of the bag with THIS post, I guess I will 'fess up with my purchase. :P


That was my Odyssey Khartago Plus we were listening to at PewterTA's house. I have to admit I was hesitant at first about the purchase. However, after hooking them up to the B&W's and hearing how close they sounded while giving up 275W/ch to the Rotel, I was relieved. Then once we connected the Finalists to the Odyssey I was smiling ear to ear. In fact, if you were milling around in the back of the room and not critically listening, it was not readily apparent which set of speakers were playing to me. (And I LOVE those B&W's.)

So......since I loved the amp so much......I ordered and had delivered an Odyssey Khartago EXTREME! I have not listened to this one yet. But when it is broken in I will provide a full report in the aforementioned Odyssey Amps thread!

Oh, that's cool!!! Sounds good Michael ... just don't let Bill (wkhanna) listen to it, so he can't jump the gun with an unauthorized review. :W

[wkhanna]

Well......


Since wkhanna let the cat out of the bag with THIS post, I guess I will 'fess up with my purchase. :P

V sorry for jumping the gun, Michael.ops:
However, if you re-read my post, I do not believe you will find one mention of the Finalists or you.
The post after mine, well, I guess an assumption was made that everyone had already figured out it was your amp.:W

[Finleyville]

Nah, just funnin' around.

Other people might be building those Finalists, but I think I am the only one on the boards vocal about looking for an amp to match. So it wasn't much of a stretch of the imagination to see it was mine....no probs.....

[wkhanna]

but...but..............it is always Dan's fault!!!

[PewterTA]

Can't tell me NUTTIN'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ha ha ha ha.

[technodanvan]

Out of curiosity (and because the website isn't clear) what does the Extreme offer over the 'Pro'?

[PewterTA]

From what I remember on the discussion. Upgraded power supply, upgraded cabling, upgraded caps (though the caps might be in the pro)... I can't remember what else.

[Finleyville]

It is my understanding that from the standard amp the PLUS model offers additional power supply capacitance. Now from the plus the EXTREME offers a different and bigger power supply (5 extra amps per rail for the Khartago), Vishay resistors, Wima caps for the signal path, very high grade and shielded internal cabling, and upgraded rear connections. I have taken some pictures of the Extreme internals. When I have some time I will do the same with the Plus model to see the differences.

Right now I have the K Extreme burning in hooked up to my very expensive $75 PBS bookshelf speakers with our tv. :P Once a month or two passes I will remove the amp and A/B it to the Khartago Plus I have.

[Johnloudb]

It is my understanding that from the standard amp the PLUS model offers additional power supply capacitance. Now from the plus the EXTREME offers a different and bigger power supply (5 extra amps per rail for the Khartago), Vishay resistors, Wima caps for the signal path, very high grade and shielded internal cabling, and upgraded rear connections. I have taken some pictures of the Extreme internals. When I have some time I will do the same with the Plus model to see the differences.

Oh, cool, sounds like a very nice upgrade! Look forward to the pics.

Right now I have the K Extreme burning in hooked up to my very expensive $75 PBS bookshelf speakers with our tv. :P Once a month or two passes I will remove the amp and A/B it to the Khartago Plus I have.

Nope, sorry, that's not gonna work for me. One to two weeks max break in!!! Two months or two weeks makes no difference, trust me!

[Finleyville]

Nope, sorry, that's not gonna work for me. One to two weeks max break in!!! Two months or two weeks makes no difference, trust me!

Haha. Funny. Klaus recommended about 200 hours. In fact, his exact words were, "Now when you first use the amp it is going to sound like $#!%." I actually laughed at him on the phone. He confirmed what other owners have reported about his products. Some days it will sound good, the next time like nails across the chalkboard, and the next like you are listening underwater.

Since I travel so much and only home a couple of days a week my home stereo sees about 2 hours a week averaged. I guess that equates to around 3 years of break in. ( i Think NOT!) So that is why I connected it to the tv setup which is on at least 8 hours a day because of my lovely wife. So it should be ready to go around a month.

[Johnloudb]

Klaus recommended about 200 hours. So it should be ready to go around a month.

Okay, well Klaus should know. I guess if you can wait I can.