Bryston vs Rotel

[Parsonsk]

It's hard to decide what to buy.
I could buy a new Rotel 1080 at 200 W a channel for $1500 or a used Bryston 3B ST at 120 W a channel for $1000. Since Bryston has a 20 year warranty and this amp is only about 8 years old i have nothing to worry about for a few years. (CDN dollars)
I'll be driving B&W 704's

What would you buy???

[Andrew Pratt]

Tough call. How do you like your sound? The Rotel will sound warmer then the Bryston and might have a little better control over the bass...but either amp is a great long term buy.

[soldonandy]

Not trying to start a huge debate but "Amps" don't sound all that different, they "amplify" sound and your speakers react to the difference in power. Further, Amps are not designed to sound "warm or bright", they produce power and if you have "warm or bright" speakers, a more powerful amp may bring that out. With that said, I have owned many Rotel pieces and find Rotel to offer a nice bang for the buck for the audiophile on a budget. Although Rotel markets (very successfully) to make you feel that you are getting heavyweight audiophile construction, the reality is that their gear is made in China and judging by the many threads on several large forums, Rotel has their share of issues. Every Rotel amp I have purchased has had some kind of pop, hiss or buzz. In general, I have found Rotel amps to be on the tempermental side but if you can get past those issues you do get a nice value performance wise. If something like a Bryston is within your reach and you can purchase it from a reliable seller and the warranty is transferrable, you may be better covered for the long haul with the remainder of the warranty. You also will be getting more substantial build with the Bryston. Again, in terms of sound, many will debate that amps sound different but my advice would be to make the purchase based on the build and warranty.

[Andrew Pratt]

Andy you're mostly right that amps sound far more alike then different but I think its misleading to say that its all about the power differences. Even within Rotels lines their 5 channel amps are designed to sound different then their 2 channel cousins. Most of that has to do with frequency extension but there are differences to be heard. As for the Rotel reliability I can only speak from my experence in that my 1080 and 1075 have been rock solid with zero issues of any sort. That's not to say Bryston's aren't generally built better as they are...but then new they're in a different price range.

[Dmantis]

Bryston amps are very nice. So is Rotel. I believe these 2 are alittle tuff to compare. Rotel is in a different price bracket as pointed out already.

You should sit down and listen to both amps and see which one sounds better. Thats the one I would go with.

I like both companies. For the money , I like Rotel better.

Dan

[Chuck G]

Amps do sound different IMO. Depending on design, you can get warmer sound with MOSFET output stages say over bipolar output stages. I'd go the used route. I just saw a Proceed AMP3 on audiogon--asking less than $1000.

You have to have a very revealing system to hear many amp differences though (preamp, source and speakers play just as big part of sound).

[benny]

I've had some reliability problems with the 1070 cd player and pre but never any problems at all with the RB1070 I purchased about three years ago. No hiss, pops, etc. My only regret is that I didn't save up for the 1080.

[zpanky]

I'm not an electrical engineer, so I can't provide technical advice in that regard. Like most people will tell you, let your own ears be the judge. You can listen to people say...this is too bright, or thats too warm, etc, etc, etc. Then there will be the crowd that says, thats all smoke and mirrors, everything sounds the same (so go out and buy yourself an RCA amp )

People will hear what they want to hear. If they are determined not to hear something, they won't. I often meet people who go around saying they heard their friends $20k system and it doesn't sound any better that their $1k Sony. I just tell them thats great, they made the right decision. Also, different people will listen to the same music and hear different things. So go out there, listen to the equipment and trust your own ears.

For what its worth I think Rotel Amps are great. Having said that, I spent even more $$'s to get a Bryston 4BSST after demoing both. I'm quite happy with that. Now I'm saving for 7BSST's.

[soldonandy]

The majority of solid-state amps will sound very similar, if you use them within the designed power limits. Andy, I agree that frequency response can be a factor, amps with similar frequency responses will sound similar. I am not sure how Rotel intended to desin the amps you mentioned to "sound" different but appreciate what you are saying. Generally, you may find that many solid state amps have similar frequency responses.

Here is something I came across in someone elses words that I found to be reasonable concerning amps, whether this sheds further light on the subject is a matter of opinion:

"1. Amps with high output impedances, like certain SET amps. Note that well-designed tube amps can sound very similar to solid-state amps.
2 Amps that have high distortion products, like certain SET amps, or amps driven to clipping.
3. Expensive boutique amps in sighted comparisons. OK, these may not really sound different, but a lot of people perceive them to be superior sounding. That's why you find people saying that it is stupid to compare $20K amps to $500 amps. Now at least in one famous incident, a high-end boutique dealer failed to differentiate a $500 amp from a $20K amp."

I acknowledge that amps and for that matter "cable" debates are no win and think that zpanky kind of summed it up. I will say this, Rotel makes nice products even though my experience with Rotel has shown some of their gear to be "buggy". I think with Bryston you are getting into another ballpark and if all things being equal, I believe that its' worth serious consideration.

Oh, one more thing. Huge difference perceived in sighted comparisons have a tendency to disappear, or at least greatly diminish, in controlled-bias listening tests!


__________________

[Andrew Pratt]

Andy please refrain from calling me Andy in the future...I've never been fond of that nickname though I can appreciate some might

[caleb]

For what its worth I think Rotel Amps are great. Having said that, I spent even more $$'s to get a Bryston 4BSST after demoing both. I'm quite happy with that. Now I'm saving for 7BSST's.[/QUOTE]

You won't be dissapointed in your 7B SST when you get then they are an awsome aounding amp.

[soldonandy]

OK Andrew, I'll do me best to "refrain" from calling you "Andy" even though it's really tempting.

[Andrew Pratt]

Thanks

[Parsonsk]

Thanks all for your input, but which do you think is a better amp? I know it comes down to what i think but what do YOU think is better...which sounds better to YOU
Would you rather spend $1k on a used bryston or a $1k on a new Rotel???? :banghead:

[Adz]

I know both very well since I owned the Rotel 1080, the 1095 and the Bryston 6B-SST, all new. I went from an Elite receiver to the Rotel separates and when the Rotel amps worked I couldn't believe the improvement in clarity and raw power; however I had so many documented problems with both amps from blown fuses, to annoying hums to blowing out an entire channel that I got fed up and bought the 6B SST sight unseen/unheard and have never looked back. My jaw dropped from what I perceived to be cleaner sound that made the Rotel sound by comparison very "mechanical" (not sure how to describe that) -- perhaps too bright sounding. I'd go with the used Bryston SST series any day.

[David Meek]

Would you rather spend $1k on a used bryston or a $1k on a new Rotel???? :banghead:

Bryston - if the warranty is valid.

[Paul H]

I have an old Bryston and an old Rotel - both are good pieces of equipment, but in your situation, no question in my mind, buy the Bryston.

I think the sound is cleaner, and you'll actually have a better warranty.

Paul

[MattCXII]

I run a 7.1 setup and have a RB 1075 for the center and four surrounds and I run a 3B ST for the mains. It brought a tear to my eye at how impressive the Bryston sounded to me. I paid 1000 canadian too for mine. In my opinion, get the Bryston... you will love it.

[soldonandy]

I think you are getting your answer. Look really closely at what is being posted around this forum about Rotel, you have the same few people boasting about Rotel everytime an opinion is asked for and a mixed bag of people reporting various quirks/issues with their gear. I have invested many dollars into Rotel and have since moved on. There is no doubt that the feeling you get when you bring home your first Rotel piece after stepping in to the more serious Home Theater/Audiophile world starts a passion for better made/performing audio/video gear. For some, the value Rotel brings to the table ends right there either by means or satisfaction. For those of us that have ventured beyond, like several people of mentioned, you start to see that Rotel takes you to a certain point but there is improvement to be realized in the next tier. The law of diminishing returns starts to kick in but generally what Bryston and other higher priced equipment gives you in addition to a little better performance is quality control and better build. When you have an opportunity to get to the next tier for the same dollars, like your Rotel or Bryston choice, as long as the Bryston piece has a valid warranty and has been well taken care of, you will be ahead.

[Victor]

From a purely objective perspective the battle of Bryston with Rotel is a close one. Let’s see, - the Bryston’s THD numbers are better by a factor of about 5. Is it important? Not really since we are talking about improvements which are lower then the accepted threshold of audibility.

The circuit topology is more sophisticated in the Bryston’s case. Is it important? Not really, since it is something the average consumer does not care about anyway. The build quality is considerably better in the Bryston’s case with better sheet metal and also the components are all hand-soldered, human-inspected and they are through-hole variety.

The warrantee is better, which naturally speaks for itself. However, the cost of Rotel is considerably less then Bryston for the same power rating. This is a very important consideration, so in the department of ‘bang for the buck’, Rotel wins.

I look at it this way, - if I can have 2 Rotels for the price of one Bryston, then the advantages of warrantee between the two are equalized.

The sound quality is not an issue because you will never be able to hear the differences in a properly set-up Blind Test. I know, - I have seen this done a few times.

So, all things being equal, you can have a more powerful amplifier if you choose Rotel for a lot less then Bryston with respectable THD specifications. These are the real issues that are important when you choose a Power Amplifier. If Bryston were 40% cheaper, then my vote for Bryston would have been a no brainer.

[JazzGuyy]

By the way, the Bryston warranty is always valid upt to the expiration date because it is based on the date of manufacture, not the date you bought it. Bryston warranties its amps for 20 years no matter who owns it. There are no transfer of warranty issues.

[spiffnme]

I've owned or currently own the following Rotel products.

RSP-1066
RMB-1075
RB-1070
RA-1062
RA-971

I've never had a single issue with any of them. No buzzes, no clicks, no whistles...

You hear a lot more people around this board bitching about their Rotel equipment, because this is the home of "Club Rotel". This is where people who do have problems come for a quick answer. My usual home is the Axiom boards, and I have to say that all the Axiomites who own Rotel are in love.

Having said all that, I'm in no way trying to tell you to get the Rotel over the Bryston. I've never heard a Bryston, and I know they have a terrific reputation. I just needed to speak up...most Rotel owners are very, very happy with their gear.

(of course if looks count for anything the Rotel is a no brainer)

[RebelMan]

The sound quality is not an issue because you will never be able to hear the differences in a properly set-up Blind Test. I know, - I have seen this done a few times.

This is true. A highly respected periodical with more than 40 years in the business has conducted such "controlled" tests on more than one occasion. It was reported (I saw the results) that more than 90% of the time people were unable to accurately identify what they thought was better from what they said was better (actually picked). Note: Only the electronics (the low side versus the high side of hi-end equipment, like the Rotel versus Bryston) were different. The speakers chosen for the experiment remained constant.

So, all things being equal, you can have a more powerful amplifier if you choose Rotel for a lot less then Bryston with respectable THD specifications. These are the real issues that are important when you choose a Power Amplifier. If Bryston were 40% cheaper, then my vote for Bryston would have been a no brainer.

I agree. Both Rotel and Bryston are good products. If they were priced the same I would probably choose the Bryston because they have a better warranty. Even so, the Rotel is still the better buy.

In this (your) case I would choose Rotel if I were going to continue to add to my system (like building it into a HT). I prefer to stay within the same brand of electronics. Otherwise I would go Bryston.

[Shane Martin]

Easy Decision: Bryston. Not that the Rotel is bad just that Bryston is better in all respects IMHO.

[Wu Xuqiang]

Hi,Admin.
I'm glad to find this website.I'm chinese from china,also interested in ROTELs since they're more affordable than Bryston,Krell etc. 8)

I think this maybe impolite but could you recommend more HIFI forums about audio equipments? I'm eager to learn more.

Or anyone else could make a suggestion?

ps:chinese voltage: 220v (mainland) 240v(Hongkong) 110v(Taiwan)

[Glen B]

Hi,Admin.
I'm glad to find this website.I'm chinese from china,also interested in ROTELs since they're more affordable than Bryston,Krell etc. 8)

I think this maybe impolite but could you recommend more HIFI forums about audio equipments? I'm eager to learn more.

Or anyone else could make a suggestion?

Your request is not impolite. Many audio and home theater enthusiasts are members of more than one forum. See the following links to some other forums and online publications.

Forums:

Edited for content by HTG Administration

Online publications:

Secrets of Home Theater:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html

Stereo Times:

http://www.stereotimes.com/

Superior Audio:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/

Audiophilia:

http://www.audiophilia.com/

[georgev]

Welcome.
also try www.avsforum.com
quite a good forum.

[Wu Xuqiang]

thanks a lot.
I only knew Audiogon,ebay,What hi-fi sites before.

[Desotti]

I owned a RB-1080 and recently moved to a 4B-SST. Overall the Bryston sounds more refined and "organic" than the Rotel, making the music more beliaveble and flowing more easily thru my Dynaudio Contour 3.0 loudspeakers.

But the Rotel stills the king in the bang-for-the-buck game imho.

[[]]'s

[Race Car Driver]

If we get into this "amps do/dont sound different" debate again I think I may go jump off a bridge.



With that, I like my Brystons They DO sound different then the two other amps I was able to A/B/C test in my own house with my own gear. Although neither of the other two were a Rotel.

Enjoy

[twitch54]

But the Rotel stills the king in the bang-for-the-buck game imho.

[[]]'s

No debate here, I think Bryston is superior as well and that Rotel offers excellent value for what you get, also to add to the "bang for the buck" would be NAD.

[dyazdani]

I just realized this thread is a year and a half old...anyway, I've always wanted to try a Bryston. Heard one with some 7 series B&W once a while back. Can't argue with tank-like build quality and a 20 year warranty.

[Race Car Driver]

Good catch!!! :lol:

[David Meek]

If we get into this "amps do/dont sound different" debate again I think I may go jump off a bridge.

There's no need for water sports.

Even though this is a possibly contentious thread, it won't devolve - I promise.

[cdwitmer]

I just bought a Rotel amp (class AB) and spent a few hours doing a listening comparison with my 30-year-old Onkyo amp (class A). It is hard to imagine two transistor amplifiers that are more different. Very different topologies, very different transistors, power supplies -- everything is vastly different. I was told by the retired Onkyo technician who sold it to me that the Onkyo amp was designed to evoke the sound of a tube amp. I was told by the friend who recommended the Rotel amp to me that it has somewhat thin lines and an analytical sound. After listen to both amps for a few hours, I agree that the Onkyo has a more “tubish” sound and that the Rotel has thinner lines and is more analytical. But what really amazed me is that the sound difference between the two amps is one of splitting hairs. They really sound very, very much alike. I am only going to keep one of the amplifiers and am having a tough time deciding between the two, mostly because the sound difference is so very small. I will probably go with the Rotel but only because, as a class AB amplifier, it consumes less electricity than the Onkyo.

[Parsonsk]

I can't believe this thread is still going on...COOL!
Well to end the debate I ended up purchasing all new Rotel gear 1080 amp, pre amp and tuner and new B&W 804S's
To tell you the truth I’m very happy with the purchase, which is over a year old now and not a pop a hiss or creek.
I really find the debate between 2 amps and if they sound different or not kind of odd. How many of you have 2 different amps in your house and sit and compare them on a regular basis?
Is it not fare to say that when you purchase a piece of equipment you choose it based on it's own merits, not how the other unit sounds and you never revist the issue afterwards?

[warnerwh]

The Rotel is a high end quality amplifier. It doesn't have the snob appeal of many other brands. I use one to power the low and mid/upper woofers of my speakers and love it.

Other amps I tried in this role were Conrad Johnson, Parasound and Innersound. The Rotel is superior with ease to the Conrad Johnson and equal to the Innersound. As a matter of fact I'd say the Parasound was superior to the Conrad Johnson.

Use the Rotel gear and be happy. That's a good amp. The difference between your Rotel and another SS amp costing 3k is tiny and may actually have less synergy in your system. A dealer once told me that the Rotel gear he sells is more reliable than Krell gear he sells. Not to diss Krell, I like Dan's products, just repeating what a dealer who sells both brands told me a couple of years ago.

[miner]

Rotel is percieved as being mid-fi by many. I think Rotel is just good quality /dollar spent and have heard many higher $$$ systems than I can honestly say what little difference I was actually able to hear would not be worth the $7000 difference in total system cost. I personally feel that if Rotel is mid-fi then I am certainly at ease with the quality of music that a mid-fi system can produce.

[twitch54]

It's hard to decide what to buy.
I could buy a new Rotel 1080 at 200 W a channel for $1500 or a used Bryston 3B ST at 120 W a channel for $1000. Since Bryston has a 20 year warranty and this amp is only about 8 years old i have nothing to worry about for a few years. (CDN dollars)
I'll be driving B&W 704's

What would you buy???

Easy, Let YOUR ears decide now if thats not possible and as others have said and the Bryston is legit with the remainder of it's warranty then Bryston it is !!

[whoaru99]

Man, I keep seeing that Bryston 20-year warranty all the time.

Marketing genius, I tell you.

There is little risk even at 20 years with most any name brand power amp, IMO.

Every amp I own is nearly, if not older, than 20 years. None have needed repair and none are Bryston...

[wolfgang]

I can't believe this thread is still going on...COOL!
Well to end the debate I ended up purchasing all new Rotel gear 1080 amp, pre amp and tuner and new B&W 804S's. To tell you the truth I’m very happy with the purchase, which is over a year old now and not a pop a hiss or creek.

Lucky man. Nice speakers. Probably one of the best I have heard so far. By the way have you heard the other B&W 800's series yet?

[Ralph]

I have been using the Bryston st series amps for a fewe years & have been happy with them. Great warranty & service from Bryston. E-mail James Tanner over at Bryston & ask him. He'll give you an honest opinion. They make pro gear besides home theater. Be sure about the warranty because they are cracking down on the internet sellers & will not honor the warranty. Unless it is from a previous owner that is. Hope this helps in your quest.

[Ralph]

By the way, the company I do some work for sells Rotel,Classe, and Krell. I wonder how i wound up with Bryston?

[whoaru99]

By the way, the company I do some work for sells Rotel,Classe, and Krell. I wonder how i wound up with Bryston?

Dunno. Best employee discount? :B

[Victor]

I often hear statements that people prefer Bryston amps for one reason or another, but mostly it is because they say that Bryston amps do sound good to them. Well, - that is a personal preference, however I would ask a question, - does Bryston make more sophisticated amps then, let’s say, Rotel or NAD or Outlaw or ADI or BK Components or Sherburn, etc, etc.?

For the record, Bryston’s circuit topology is older then many audiophiles I know. That in itself does not make it bad, but it is dated. Bryston has no high-tech or, shall I say, modern circuit ‘tricks’ such as cascodes or active current sources or even a bias control. For example, on a start up the output bias of the Bryston amp would wonder all over the place until the operating temperature is achieved and then it would somewhat stabilize but still the output stage current would continue changing. This is due to an extremely simplistic bias current set up that all Bryston amps are using.

Bryston output stage is quite ingenious in a sense that it is an example of what not to do for the fear of instability but Bryston managed to get it to work rather well. Bryston has a very high open loop gain and consequently high negative feedback which is partly the reason for the exemplary THD numbers. The other reason is its output stage has local voltage gain and local feedback that further decreases the THD.

In any event Bryston amps while still quite good are hardly modern by any stretch of imagination.

These days we have better and by far less expensive alternatives. I am personally looking at the UcD digital class D modules that today can be had in a kit form or fully assembled into a functioning power amp. I have seen the mono-blocks and 5 channels amps based on those modules. You can get a 400 Watt unit for about $150. It will give you a load invariant power amp with about 0.02% THD at all frequencies and power levels. While it is not a 0.007% that Bryston claims, still it is 10 times below the threshold of audibility and it is more powerful then Bryston 4B SST.

The UcD will drive anything and more importantly you can put 5 or more channels into a very small box without any fear of overheating. The only other amp that does that comes from Sunfire. Finally Behringer A500 can be had for next to nothing. I bought 2 of them for $180 each locally in Toronto and they are currently replacing my trusty Bryston 3B. I hear no differences through my 3-way full range dipoles. I used them to drive the RD-75 section which extremely revealing as far as drivers go.

So, - as much as I like Bryston the company, their products in my view are fast becoming outdated and outright surpassed by others. Rotel is only but one example of a clearly superior deal, with UcD definitely outclassing the Bryston technology and the Behringer A500 is certainly the best bang for the buck of them all. My money is on UcD.

regards,
Victor