200w Multichannel Amps @ 4 ohms? Too sensitive?

[drosophila]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? In a relatively small room, say 12' x 12', is this just way, way too much? I'd been trying to stick to 5-channel amps that push up to or under 150w x5 @ 4 ohms, but there aren't many amps that match that very well. I'm mostly just afraid that if I do go for 200w, we'll only have two volume options: 'off' and 'seriously farking loud'. Primare, Parasound, and/or Rotel amps have mostly been my preference (and Classe, which I can't afford )

Speakers are relatively low-efficiency, btw.. say 86db-89dB, usually. I've been looking at various under-$600 bookshelfs and trying to find multichannel amps suited to them, but not a lot of luck unless I hit 200w. Mostly Dali Blue 2002, Epos M5, and Triangle Stella, if anyone cares (I don't see any of these brands mentioned much, though I love their sound)

Anything you guys can give me.. eh, you know. Thanks.
- Erik

[Lex]

Erik, I've never heard of any of those speakers, let alone "heard them". If you haven't picked the speakers, how do you know it will be a 4 ohm load? The speaker specifies that,unless you plan to run 2 8 ohm speakers on the same channel.

Typically, larger, most expensive speakers are 4 ohms. Bookshelf speakers tend to be 8 ohms. I don't think you will be overpowering at 200 watt amps. If anything, it gives you smoother or refined power at lower volumes. My amp puts out 600 watts at 4 ohms, and my speakers are 4 ohms. But I don't have to listen to my system ultra loud. It's nice on delicate volumes as well as cranked.

lex

[Andrew Pratt]

I don't think you'll be over powering them either as its typically better to use to much power then too little so don't limit your choices based on power. As you said the Rotel 1075 is 200 watts or so at 4 ohms, is priced well and looks great. It also runs very cool which can be a bonus in small rooms on a warm summers day

[Kevin P]

Additional power doesn't simply translate into "louder", instead, it gives you more headroom. Headroom translates into smoother sound even at lower volumes, since the amp can reproduce transients without straining. It's like having a 400 hp engine in your car. Even if you never drive 130, the extra HP gives you extra power when you need it to accelerate, and smooth operation even in stop and go traffic.

With your lower-efficiency speakers, headroom and power reserve is all the more important. With 4 ohm speakers, you should use quality amps with a high current rating for best results.

Don't forget, regardless of your amp's power capabilities, you still have a volume control.

[drosophila]

I'd figured that this would all translate to simply more headroom, but wanted to clarify, since this is still new territory.

I'd been concerned about the loudness aspect, though, based on speaker differences. We had a pair of small JBL bookshelfs awhile back, and it seemed like we had to crank the volume knob to be able to get to regular listening levels. A lot of this is just my own naivete - sometimes I intrinsically know the right answer, but want to check with people who know for certain, since there's always that niggle of, "OMG! What if I spend all this money on the wrong amp and blow the speakers or something?!" I get the idea now, though

In reference to Lex, I haven't decided on speakers yet, but most of the ones i'm finding I like when auditioning or want to check out based on specs/appearance/reviews/etc wind up being 4 ohm. Case in point: the first ones I listened to were Dynaudio Audience 52's. Many dealers suggested I check out the Totem Rainmaker's instead, as they're slightly easier to drive and sound better than the Dyn's in the low-frequency range. When it was suggested by my girlfriend that $900+ might be a little too much, I stumbled upon the Epos during research, and surprise! 4 ohms as well.

I'm viewing specs and aesthetic value - they can sound like gold, but if they're really not jiving with my sense of taste, I move on and keep looking.

If anyone's curious about the Triangle stuff, btw: Triangle

Oh, and thanks again for the help, btw. Something tells me i'll look back on these posts later down the road, and think, "sheesh, I really didn't know jack, did I?"

[Kevin P]

Oh, and thanks again for the help, btw. Something tells me i'll look back on these posts later down the road, and think, "sheesh, I really didn't know jack, did I?"

We were all there at one time.

A good amp will make your speakers sing. Especially since you seem to be looking toward the higher-end speakers that tend to have lower impedance and efficiency, which makes having a quality amp all the more important.

[David Meek]

If anyone's curious about the Triangle stuff, btw: Triangle

I do know that Sam Tellig -one of the primary contributors to Stereophile magazine - is nuts about the Triangle brand.

Oh, and thanks again for the help, btw. Something tells me i'll look back on these posts later down the road, and think, "sheesh, I really didn't know jack, did I?"

Erik, we all started right at the same spot at one point. It's all part of the fun.

[Chris D]

Something tells me i'll look back on these posts later down the road, and think, "sheesh, I really didn't know jack, did I?"

Hell, I'm STILL there.

Exactly what Andrew, Kevin, and others said. Excess power won't blow your speakers unless you physically cranck the volume. Instead, you'll have cleaner, sharper sound details--a very good thing. Don't forget something else that someone on this board recommended to me a few years ago: (David Meek, I think) you're buying this amp(s) for your current setup, but you may have a different house, set of speakers, or whatever in the future and may NEED the extra power then. Decide whether you want to buy a nice, powerful amp now, or maybe have to buy another one all over again in the future. Only you know the answer.

[drosophila]

Man, you hit the nail on the head more than you can imagine. We're in an apartment right now that's just a taaad too small in spots, or too awkward dimensionally (don't get me started on acoustics and insulation here).

So, our lease is up middle of next year, and we're going to up what we're paying per month in exchange for something a bit nicer, more suitable space-wise.

It all comes down to organization, really. I can't realistically afford to be blowing $2000 right now on an amp, but I figure that if I get a sense of what I want brand/feature/model-wise, I can snag some great deals in a few months on audiogon. Mix the new with the old, and I should be able to build a great system for a price that won't outright kill me. My girlfriend might, but she tends to come around on this stuff once she hears it

Hopefully, we can put our cash aside, sell/get rid of the audio/video stuff and furniture we don't want or need anymore, and once moving day comes, save cash on size of the truck. Get all the small stuff over to a new place, *then* buy our system components and some new furniture where it's needed.

Somewhat off-topic, I suppose, but for us budget-minded folks trying to get a taste of high-end, it seems like a sound plan to me.

[Andrew Pratt]

Buying your amps used is a great idea as the technology doens't really change that often much over the years and amps tend to last for years and years.

[DrBoom]

Power determines how loud you can go, not how fast it gets loud.
If you have an amplifier where you can't touch the dial or the volume skyrockets, then it's not because it's a high power amplifier but a high-gain amplifier.
Most power amplifiers have a gain of 28.3 dB, which is the THX reference gain.
There are some brands that have only 23 dB, and some that have over 30 dB of gain.
And loudness is still controlled by the volume setting of your pre/pro.
Let's say your pre/pro is giving out a voltage of 0.8V on your pre-out that's connected to your poweramp.
In that scenario a 100W poweramp with a gain of 28.3 dB will put out 64 Watts if you have 8 ohm speakes.
If you change the poweramp with a 400W one, with the same gain, the output power at 0.8V input voltage will still be 64W.
Connect a 100W poweramp with a gain of 30 dB, and the power will be 72 Watts which means that this amp will play louder than the others at the same volume level.
It can't go as loud as the 400W but it will play louder at a given volume level.

[whoaru99]

Drosophila - interesting choice of screen name. Any particular reason? Just curious....

[drosophila]

It's the name of my primary music project.. hive-mind mentality amongst humans on a genetic level, etc. Think of the music for Aeon Flux and Dr. Who meets distorted rhythms and screaming.