Headphones , really?

[Dmantis]

Out of sheer curiosity , whats the big deal with headphones?
I mean really? I've seen multi thousand dollar head phones and it seems to be the craze right now. Maybe it's always been the craze and I was not in tune with it.
Honestly I think head phones are a un natural way of listening to music or sound for that matter. I would buy a nice pair IF I wasn't able to listen to my speakers when I wanted to.

I own a nice pair of Klipsch in ear buds and they are really nice. They are a rugged design for sports and I use them for Mountain bike riding. I don't however use them any other time, I have no desire to.

So all you head phone addicts , Am I missing out on something?

[impala454]

I listen to headphones at work all the time, sometimes nearly all day. I don't have the luxury of my own private office, so it's great to be able to crank my music full blast with some great quality and not even bother the person sitting five feet away. I've got an old pair of Plantronics I'd love to replace with a higher quality set.

They'll never replace my home system, but I can understand those who live in a place where you can't crank the system or don't have room for a all out system, headphones are huge. I know in my apartment I don't even bother having a subwoofer, I simply can't run it without bothering people.

[wkhanna]

Like everything else audio-related, advances in material science & electronics have been applied to headphones & headphone related equipment such as dedicated amps, DACs, cables, etc.

There currently are some V impressive kits available. Respected companies such as Bryston, Cary & Luxman offer dedicated headphone amps in the + $2k range. The same with headphones, which range from hundreds to thousands of dollars.

I have not heard any of the higher-end kits, but I have no doubt their performance would be astonishing relative to the meager ‘ear muffs’ I have heard in my youth many years ago.

There is also the matter of environment & practicality. Those who reside in apartments & others who need to be respectful of those around them find headphones the perfect compromise. While others simply prefer the high quality sound available from such a small, physically unobtrusive package.

Go to Head-Fi for a glimpse of how passionate those involved in this niche area of our hobby have become.

[Chris D]

I invested in a very nice higher-end pair of earbuds, that I regularly use for exercise and travel. It's quite impressive how much they can move you with powerful music, isolating the outside world, whether I'm in the gym, on a plane, or whatever.

If I lived in an apartment, worked in a cubicle, and/or hadn't already trained my family to put up with me listening to loud music and movies, I'd definitely invest in a nice set of headphones as well.

I have a thread I made about my earbuds. If you're interested, I'll provide a link.

[madmac]

Out of sheer curiosity , whats the big deal with headphones?
I mean really? I've seen multi thousand dollar head phones and it seems to be the craze right now. Maybe it's always been the craze and I was not in tune with it.
Honestly I think head phones are a un natural way of listening to music or sound for that matter. I would buy a nice pair IF I wasn't able to listen to my speakers when I wanted to.

I own a nice pair of Klipsch in ear buds and they are really nice. They are a rugged design for sports and I use them for Mountain bike riding. I don't however use them any other time, I have no desire to.

So all you head phone addicts , Am I missing out on something?

Yes....you are missing out on something. Get a really good set of cans ($200-300 bucks+) and you will understand what I'm saying (Not the in-ear type...the bigger over the ear type). I've recently moved into an apartment and I can tell you that my headphones re-create 98% of what my speakers could do without worrying that I'm bothering anyone. A little more detail but a little less 'impact'. :W

Plus, if you get a headphone amp, the sound will be even better!! :T

[Ovation]

The only thing I miss when I have headphones (and only rarely) is a bit of bass "slam" that I get from my subwoofer.** I quite enjoy the enhanced detail and the lack of ambient noise interfering with my listening.

It is true that headphones (unless they are binaural) present a different listening experience than with loudspeakers interacting with a room. I would not qualify it as artificial--at least not in relation to loudspeakers being natural. Each is an artificial way of presenting audio information--they simply present them in a differently artificial way.

I have the luxury of living in a house where I can listen as loudly as I want without disturbing neighbours and I too have "trained" my family to live with the rumblings that emerge from the HT room when I'm alone in there (it does help that I partially soundproofed the room ). But for times when I want to isolate myself from the world or listen to tunes in bed without keeping my wife awake, I turn to my trusty B&W P5s (they also make great travel and work companions).

I would not replace my speakers with headphones (unless I found myself back in a small studio apartment as in my student days). But I consider them a very useful and enjoyable supplement.

**Exceptions being movies and MCH audio from SACD/DVD-A. In that case, I live with the lack of MCH audio (when traveling or at work) but I do miss the extra channels.

[Hdale85]

He doesn't even have to spend 200 bucks, just grab a set of Allessandro Music Series One's for 99 bucks and you will start to see the potential of headphones. Could also couple that with a decent dac/headphone amp unit and it could be your gateway drug. Headphones can reproduce a sound stage and what not just as well as a 2 channel system, after all the sound comes through the same 2 holes in your head. There are some drawbacks to headphones, but they really can sound quite good.

http://www.alessandro-products.com/main.php?p=headphones

[Kal Rubinson]

Out of sheer curiosity , whats the big deal with headphones?
I mean really? I've seen multi thousand dollar head phones and it seems to be the craze right now. Maybe it's always been the craze and I was not in tune with it.
Honestly I think head phones are a un natural way of listening to music or sound for that matter. I would buy a nice pair IF I wasn't able to listen to my speakers when I wanted to.

I own a nice pair of Klipsch in ear buds and they are really nice. They are a rugged design for sports and I use them for Mountain bike riding. I don't however use them any other time, I have no desire to.

So all you head phone addicts , Am I missing out on something?

I am with you. Every few years, I give the current headphone technology a try but I remain unconvinced. The entirely unnatural soundstaging is, imho, unacceptable. The physical contact to my ears and head (as well as the tethering) annoys and distracts me. The lack of "feel" to the low bass is missed.

Fortunately, I have no problems listening to my systems when and how I want and no need for a constant serenade when I am in transit between them.

[Johnloudb]

I saw you posted, Kal, and my gut told me you hated phones!!! :W Don't know why.

I don't like phones either, or maybe I should say I much prefer speakers and avoid phones when possible. However, I really do enjoy Pandora and other internet radio apps on my iphone at times. So, in those cases I use some $30.00 Radio Shack Pro 35A phones. Same as an inexpensive Koss model - Koss made them for radio shack. I do like them as they are non fatiguing, natural and make compressed audio sound nice. I also have some Sennheiser HD600 phones, but haven't used them much cause they are big.

[wkhanna]

....... and no need for a constant serenade when I am in transit between [the systems] them .

This is an area were Kal & I are also in agreement.
I have no desire or need for portable music.

This seems a difficult concept for many to understand. If I appreciate music so much, & have made such a significant investment in my music library, why would I not want to take my music with me wherever I go?

The only way I know to answer is that it simply becomes too cumbersome & distracting to listen & enjoy anywhere other than my home system.

[impala454]

Curious, kind of a side topic. Those who mentioned you don't care to listen other than your home system, do you listen in the car?

[aud19]

My headphones saved my sanity on Saturday leaf blowing and then cleaning up six 80+lb bags of wet leaves, pin needles, chestnuts and chestnut husks in the pissing rain for 5-6 hours.

I've got Ultrasone (German Company) HIFI 450's which are good (if not great) cans for under $100.

HFI-450: Ultrasone now has a $100 closed headphone! First time around when we checked them out, their closed offerings weren't available at this lower price level. But I have to mention, at this price point, we have been very pleased with the Sennheiser HD280Pro. So naturally, we had to compare. Detail of the HD280 has consistently impressed us compared to other under $100 closed headphones we have tried, (even compared to Senn's newer HD448). When we first compared the Ultrasone HFI-450, we noticed a bit fuller sound than the Senn. Ultrasone, who boasts about "Natural Surround Sound," (a feature they term S-Logic), seems to be on to something as fuller sound is more difficult to attain from a Closed Can design as compared to the more natural sound more easily heard from "Open" headphone designs. But as we listened further, we did note we still preferred the detail of the Senn HD280 to the HFI-450. Not a huge difference, but we like hearing detail in the mids and the highs and the Senn still seems to have an edge in this department. Bottom line, we do like the HFI-450, but we're not going to stop recommending the Senn HD280Pro.

They've also got some very well reviewed HIFI 580's. They'r a bit more $$ but evidently perform very well.

HFI-580: OK, here's where we're excited! You see, many of the spendier offerings from Sennheiser and AKG didn't impress us as being much, if any, better than the HD280Pro? But right off the bat, the Ultrasone HFI-580 is catching our ear. Better detail than the Senn in the mids and highs. Fuller sound. And even a fuller bass that doesn't take away from the detail of the mid's and highs! The headphone looks nice. Seems well built. Is easily driven, (maybe our favorite headphone directly from our Classic iPod for certain types of upbeat music?). Yes, at about the $190 price point, we can easily say we have not been quite as impressed with any other Closed Cans we've tried from other manufacturers as we are the Ultrasone HFI-580! Interesting note, the 580 has a 50mm driver, as compared to 40mm found on most other models. Perhaps this could account for the increased bass?

http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/Reviewss/UltrasoneClosedCanReview.html

[wkhanna]

Curious, kind of a side topic. Those who mentioned you don't care to listen other than your home system, do you listen in the car?

Nope.

[madmac]

I am with you. Every few years, I give the current headphone technology a try but I remain unconvinced. The entirely unnatural soundstaging is, imho, unacceptable. The physical contact to my ears and head (as well as the tethering) annoys and distracts me. The lack of "feel" to the low bass is missed.

Fortunately, I have no problems listening to my systems when and how I want and no need for a constant serenade when I am in transit between them.

To a certain degree, I completely agree with you. When I moved into a house and optimized my system, it was bye bye headphones. However, being in a apartment again I have re-discovered how nice mine sound!.

Also, I think many of you guys here on the forum have some REALLY nice, very expensive equipment so headphones (Even very good one's) probably cannot compete with that level of equipment.

In my case, the bass I get with my Grado's is on par with the bass I get out my subs and speakers but Like Kal mentionned, The impact is different but the low end is definitely is most certainly there. I have not watched a movie yet with them so the LFE will not be there in 2 channel.

[madmac]

The only thing I miss when I have headphones (and only rarely) is a bit of bass "slam" that I get from my subwoofer.** I quite enjoy the enhanced detail and the lack of ambient noise interfering with my listening.

It is true that headphones (unless they are binaural) present a different listening experience than with loudspeakers interacting with a room. I would not qualify it as artificial--at least not in relation to loudspeakers being natural. Each is an artificial way of presenting audio information--they simply present them in a differently artificial way.

I have the luxury of living in a house where I can listen as loudly as I want without disturbing neighbours and I too have "trained" my family to live with the rumblings that emerge from the HT room when I'm alone in there (it does help that I partially soundproofed the room ). But for times when I want to isolate myself from the world or listen to tunes in bed without keeping my wife awake, I turn to my trusty B&W P5s (they also make great travel and work companions).

I would not replace my speakers with headphones (unless I found myself back in a small studio apartment as in my student days). But I consider them a very useful and enjoyable supplement.

**Exceptions being movies and MCH audio from SACD/DVD-A. In that case, I live with the lack of MCH audio (when traveling or at work) but I do miss the extra channels.

I agree about the 'artificial' thing. Once music leaves the instrument and goes into a mics and into a mixing board, it is artificial and only a representation of what was. Earphones create more of a studio presentation in regards to the mixing and what they probably heard there and what the sound guys want you to hear. Speakers, although they create more 'impact' interact with the room and that somewhat changes the sound. That could be good or bad depending on the setup of the room.

[Manning]

I'm the type who likes music too much to really care a lot how I listen to it. Speakers, ear buds, headphones.......doesn't matter to me as long as the quality is good and I can hear all the nuances the music provides.

On a side note however, if I had the best earphones money could buy, "Dark Side of the Moon" would be the first thing that got played through them.

[Ovation]

This is an area were Kal & I are also in agreement.
I have no desire or need for portable music.

This seems a difficult concept for many to understand. If I appreciate music so much, & have made such a significant investment in my music library, why would I not want to take my music with me wherever I go?

The only way I know to answer is that it simply becomes too cumbersome & distracting to listen & enjoy anywhere other than my home system.

I am at the tail end of my annual autumn drive from Montreal to central Florida (I have an annual drive in the opposite direction in the spring as I ferry my mother-in-law's car to and from Florida). The drive is over 3000km long (I take the opportunity to explore various regions off the interstate during each trip) and I do the drive alone. I cannot imagine doing the entire trip without some musical accompaniment (not knocking your choice, just explaining mine). I make specific playlists tailored to driving: either for distance or for locale (I used to do the same with cassettes long ago).

I don't always listen to music--I include audiobooks** and news programmes in the ride--but music is definitely part of the trip. And the flights to or from Florida are made much more endurable with my trusty P5s (and others before them).

I don't often listen to music on short car trips (usually listen to CBC radio in French or English, or the hockey game if it's on--not lately though :M ) but for long drives (or plane/train trips), I consider it an essential ingredient.

**Excellent audiobook that I "read" in one day's drive (Saturday last) by Daniel J. Levitin (a professor at my alma mater--McGill University): This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession

I highly recommend it to anyone interested on how the brain interacts with music.

[wkhanna]

I just ordered the book from Amazon...

Along with "How Music Works" by David Byrne

[Kal Rubinson]

Curious, kind of a side topic. Those who mentioned you don't care to listen other than your home system, do you listen in the car?

Not really. Often, my wife will play something in the car.

[Kal Rubinson]

Earphones create more of a studio presentation in regards to the mixing and what they probably heard there and what the sound guys want you to hear.

I fail to see the justification for this statement. Do you think that mastering is, normally, done over headphones?

[Face]

I fail to see the justification for this statement. Do you think that mastering is, normally, done over headphones?

Sure, if you're Dr. Dre.

[Ovation]

I fail to see the justification for this statement. Do you think that mastering is, normally, done over headphones?

My limited experience in a recording studio (I have no idea if it was typical) suggests that mixing is frequently done with headphones and mastering with studio monitors.

[Kal Rubinson]

My limited experience in a recording studio (I have no idea if it was typical) suggests that mixing is frequently done with headphones and mastering with studio monitors.

And which comes last? I find that indicative of what is needed to make final decisions about the balance and soundstage.

In any case, I do not believe headphone use is typical of classical recordings. In fact, of the recording sessions and mastering studios I have visited, all relied on speakers and only used 'phones to monitor the live sound.

[Johnloudb]

Excellent audiobook that I "read" in one day's drive (Saturday last) by Daniel J. Levitin (a professor at my alma mater--McGill University): This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession

I just ordered the book from Amazon...

Along with "How Music Works" by David Byrne

I enjoyed this one -

Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain by Oliver Sacks

[Ovation]

And which comes last? I find that indicative of what is needed to make final decisions about the balance and soundstage.

In any case, I do not believe headphone use is typical of classical recordings. In fact, of the recording sessions and mastering studios I have visited, all relied on speakers and only used 'phones to monitor the live sound.

Speakers are the final word in the recordings I've done and witnessed. For my wedding, I did the vocals for a recording of the song used as the "opening dance". It was a simple affair, though not unlike what most pop recording sessions are probably like these days (in technique--I make no claims of professional quality of performance, though the guests did not visibly cringe when it was played at the wedding). The instruments and vocals were recorded on separate tracks, the mixing was done as a communal effort (with myself and the others involved with the recording)--first with the headphones to better isolate details, a subsequent pass over the speakers to hear the mix interact with a room, back to the phones to modify track levels, back to the speakers. Rinse, lather, repeat. A "final" mixdown to 2 channels was made, then checked over speakers. A bit of further fiddling with levels (using phones and speakers), a real "final" mix and then mastering with various digital tools for the final product--checked over speakers for the final seal of approval.

I would imagine a classical recording, particularly of a symphony, would not use phones very much in the process, given the extra importance of capturing the venue in most cases. With modern pop, which includes a considerable reliance on electronic instrumentation, phones would be more useful in various stages of the process, I should think (again, based on my limited experience).

[madmac]

I fail to see the justification for this statement. Do you think that mastering is, normally, done over headphones?

I believe it's done using studio monitors in a small, acoustically dead room. Many of the artists themselves are wearing headphones during the recording process. All I'm saying Kal is that good headphones present a relatively non colored presentation of the recording, probably closer to what was heard in the studio by the sound engineer. I think that is a relatively fair statement no?.

One thing that I will say though is that I have had some recordings sound great through headphones, and less so amplified through speakers for some reason.

Conversely, if a CD sounds great out of my speakers, It ALWAYS sounds equally great though headphones!. :W

[Kal Rubinson]

All I'm saying Kal is that good headphones present a relatively non colored presentation of the recording, probably closer to what was heard in the studio by the sound engineer. I think that is a relatively fair statement no?.

IMHO, no.

[madmac]

IMHO, no.

Now..now..now....see here now !!! :rofl:

Your just a headphone hater !!! :B

[stuofsci02]

One thing that I will say though is that I have had some recordings sound great through headphones, and less so amplified through speakers for some reason.

Conversely, if a CD sounds great out of my speakers, It ALWAYS sounds equally great though headphones!. :W

8O

Certain recordings will sound more pleasing on cheap headphones then a good speaker setup. This is true if the recording is not very good.

I have yet to hear any headphones touch my 801D's.. But I haven't listened to a lot of headphones.. Would $1500 headphones do it? I am not so sure...

[madmac]

8O

Certain recordings will sound more pleasing on cheap headphones then a good speaker setup. This is true if the recording is not very good.

I have yet to hear any headphones touch my 801D's.. But I haven't listened to a lot of headphones.. Would $1500 headphones do it? I am not so sure...

Like I said in an earlier post, some members here on the forum are running $15k+ speakers on some very expensive equipment. My system is much more modest. $5K or so worth of speakers and a Rotel receiver so I have a little more leeway when it comes to liking the sound of a $250 Grado headphone array. It's all relative really!!. Even with the setup I have, I've got it better than 95% of the people out there running crappy, cheap audio stuff!!. It's the best I can afford and I am remarkably happy with it. :B

Kal just does not like headphones and I respect that. When I was in a house, I preferred my speakers too. It's just that when you are forced to back to headphones due to living in a apartment, you kind of sit back and go...."Hey...this is pretty good" as you re-discover the sound of good headphones!. I can certainly live with it, that's for sure!!. Better than having the Superintendent knocking on your door telling you to turn it down!!. I actually gave my neighbor downstairs my phone number so If I fire up my system and it's bothering her, she can just call me rather than going to the superintendent to complain. I'm not out there to bother anyone

[Face]

8O

Certain recordings will sound more pleasing on cheap headphones then a good speaker setup. This is true if the recording is not very good.

I have yet to hear any headphones touch my 801D's.. But I haven't listened to a lot of headphones.. Would $1500 headphones do it? I am not so sure...

It all depends on what your preferences are.

As far as $1,500 headphones go, Senn HD800s or HiFiMan HE-6s properly driven and with a good source are absolutely phenomenal. The HD800s can be a little on the analytical side and needs gear on the warm side. The HE-6 is neutral, but needs a lot of power(speaker power amps are preferred). If you're looking for a more polite sound and/or something easier to drive, check out Beyer T1(too polite IMO) or the dark sounding Audeze LCD-2.

[Dmantis]

I am with you. Every few years, I give the current headphone technology a try but I remain unconvinced. The entirely unnatural soundstaging is, imho, unacceptable. The physical contact to my ears and head (as well as the tethering) annoys and distracts me. The lack of "feel" to the low bass is missed.

Fortunately, I have no problems listening to my systems when and how I want and no need for a constant serenade when I am in transit between them.

It's the craze right now and companies are trying to come out with some kind of angle to sell their headphones. I mean if your into them , nows a great time to be into them as there are so many to choose from.

I for one have no need for a good set , I got my Klipsch which sound really good but I could really care less as I use them to work out and ride. I never use them any other time. I can listen to my system just about any time I want.

[madmac]

In summery .......Headphones ROCK !!! Sorry Kal !!! :W :T

[wkhanna]

Dan & I were down at our local shop on Saturday evening.
We had a chance to spend some time with a vintage pair of Stax 'phones.
They were V impressive.
Clean, lively, engaging.
There is a lot of 'coloring' going on with these.
The sound stage was V weird.
Bass was implied, but lack of tactile 'feel' leaves me wanting.
Overall, they were pleasant.......
But not my 'Cup of Tea', as it were.

[madmac]

Dan & I were down at our local shop on Saturday evening.
We had a chance to spend some time with a vintage pair of Stax 'phones.
They were V impressive.
Clean, lively, engaging.
There is a lot of 'coloring' going on with these.
The sound stage was V weird.
Bass was implied, but lack of tactile 'feel' leaves me wanting.
Overall, they were pleasant.......
But not my 'Cup of Tea', as it were.

Try Grado headphones. Very uncolored.....great full bass (No complaints there even though I run 2 Subs live).......good soundstage. Like many others here on the forum, I would much prefer to blast my speakers but not all of us can do that. My Grado's give me 98% of what my speakers can offer with a slight more amount of detail, but.....sadly.... with a little less 'impact' as it were!!. But the presentation to me is astonishing given that they are 'cans'!! :T

[hwkn]

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD485's but I do most of my music listening through a pair of CX400 II IEM's[I notice more detail through the IEM's than through the big headphones].

[madmac]

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD485's but I do most of my music listening through a pair of CX400 II IEM's[I notice more detail through the IEM's than through the big headphones].

I assume 'IEM' means in ear models?. The detail might be there but they seriously lack in low bass response compared to bigger over the ear models.

[hwkn]

The CX400 II's have plenty of bass imho.[what I meant by IEM is In Ear Monitor]......I switched to the CX400 II's because the HD485's made my ears too warm especially in the summer.

[madmac]

The CX400 II's have plenty of bass imho.[what I meant by IEM is In Ear Monitor]......I switched to the CX400 II's because the HD485's made my ears too warm especially in the summer.

Well, the idea/ concept is the same as in speakers. The bigger the driver, the better, deeper and more realistic bass it will deliver. As with Earphones, the bigger the transducer in it, the better, more realistic bass it can/should deliver if it's a great quality.

However, I am shocked at how good the bass 'can' be out of a good set of IEM's
:W

[audioqueso]

I never cared for IEM, but I wanted to give them a chance.
I just purchased seven $50~100 IEMs. So far, the only IEM that I've found to have any real bass is the Vsonic GR06. The rest are really lacking in bass.

[Kal Rubinson]

In summery .......Headphones ROCK !!! Sorry Kal !!! :W :T

Mebbe. I don't listen to rock either. :

[Hdale85]

IEM bass is mostly a result of how well they seal to your ear canal. That's why the higher end ones generally come with quite a few different sizes and material ear plugs that attach on.

[Alloroc]

I'm a massive fan of in-ear monitors - especially the balanced armature variety. Personally there's nothing like them, in my opinion. I've a few different makes incuding a pair of customs where I recycled a pair of Shure 530s where the cable got damaged. Those 530s had three drivers and I had an additional one added during the build. I use the customs with the Arcam rPAC headphone amp and the quality is unreal. I use my old Marantz DV9600 as a source for SACD.

When I'm out and about being sporty I've a super light pair of Klipsch x10i for use with my iPhone. It's a very acceptable setup and very easy to wear. For a single armature, the sq is phenominal.

When travelling overseas I use a pair of Westone 4rc phones with my iPhone. These are possibly the best non-custom IEM that i've heard.

So yeah, it's all about the seal in the ear - especially for lower frequencies.

Shure's olive buds provide a great seal but I find them a little uncomfortable. I find the Comply foam tips to be the best of them all.

It goes without saying that investing in higher quality bit rates. I use an iPhone and apple lossless..... not the best, but overall it's very good.

My wife by the way, has a Sony Walkman X1060 and a pair of UE triple-fi iems and she is hooked to that setup.....

[madmac]

Mebbe. I don't listen to rock either. :

I'm a jazz man Kal....Vocal jazz especially. :W