Softwall Systems (whole room treatment)

[James63]

I am having my Basement water-proofed next month and have been looking around for room treatments. My girlfriend sent me a link to a company called Softwall.

They make (and in stall if wanted) foam wall panels that are covered with fabric. They are "85% sound absorbing". Anyway I called them and they will sell me a kit for my 12X20X7.5 (for self install) for $1800 (full install is just under 5,000 with all the trimmings...). The panels are connected to a track and pop on and off.

Has anyone used this type of product before? If so how did you like it? Also did anyone find that their room was over damped? Is over damping even a problem?

They are local for me so I am pretty set on it right now. I am currently using B&W 703 speakers and plan to upgrade to a pair of 802D once the basement is done.

Here is a link. Check out some of the "Job Photos".

http://www.softwallsystems.com/index.htm

[ThomasW]

If all the high frequencies are absorbed the room can sound dull/lifeless.

The usual acoustic treatments for a room consist of a mixture of absorption and diffusion. These are balanced so the acoustic space sounds 'natural'

If they're putting 3/4"-1" of OC-703/705 on all the interior surfaces this link will tell you how much and what frequencies are absorbed.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Here are some other links that may be of assistance

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpage9.html

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpage12.html

[James63]

Ok thanks for the links (just finished reading them). It looks like the Softwalls will over damp the room. I will read up on room treatments. I have not had a dedicated room before and have not experimented with room treatments.

I will also look into just treating fist order reflections, getting bass traps and might forgetting the Softwall approach.


Other input from people on the over damping issue would still be appreciated.

As a side note, I listen mostly to hard rock ( I like lots of music styles though) and tend to like an aggressive sound. I am hoping the room treatments will improve the clarity (detail/openness/imaging) of the midrange. I currently don't have any bass issues or brightness issues. My current room is 15X17X8 with carpet and "normal" furnishings... theater chairs :lol: )

[dtb300]

They make (and in stall if wanted) foam wall panels that are covered with fabric. They are "85% sound absorbing".

They say 85% sound absorbing, but I do not see any 3rd party testing results from acoustic measurement labs to back it up.

[Kal Rubinson]

They say 85% sound absorbing, but I do not see any 3rd party testing results from acoustic measurement labs to back it up.

Nor do they specify at what frequencies the 85% efficiency is achieved. We know it is not at 24Hz. :B

[Chris D]

This is very true, Kal.

[ThomasW]

They say 85% sound absorbing, but I do not see any 3rd party testing results from acoustic measurement labs to back it up.

Nor do they specify at what frequencies the 85% efficiency is achieved. We know it is not at 24Hz. :B

From their online video it appears they're using 3/4"-1" OC-703/705, so it's not too difficult to know what frequencies are being absorbed. The choice of cloth will be a factor as well.

This might be a viable option if one is only going to play multi-channel recordings. My (unscientifically substantiated) opinion is that fully discrete multi-channel playback sounds better in a highly damped room. That's the opposite of how I think a 2 channel room should be done = LEDE (Live End Dead End)...

[James63]

Yea I am not sure what to think of it. There are a few reviews online but they all relate to home theater. I am really only concerned about two channel (even though the room with be a theater room). I like the idea of a very damped room but in reality it may not work out well.

Other than affecting overall tonal balance what affect would it have on imaging?

With my current speakers (B&W 703) it would help flush out the bass more (a good thing). But I plan to buy a pair of 802Ds (Sophia and Studio2s are still on my shot list of speakers to hear...) that are already heavy in the bottom end...

All in all I am not sure what I am going to do. They are local for me so I will at least check out there show room. After talking with them on the phone it sounds like they have a "consumer grade" surround sound set up in there show room. It will not be of much help in my decision. I think it could have some good points but the negatives might out weight the positives.

In general it seems like most of you think this is a bad idea? Has anyone ever over treated their own room and ended up not liking it?

[Kal Rubinson]

From their online video it appears they're using 3/4"-1" OC-703/705, so it's not too difficult to know what frequencies are being absorbed. ..

Sure. Off the top of my head, it will only be treble.

Kal

[TheProhet]

Nor do they specify at what frequencies the 85% efficiency is achieved. We know it is not at 24Hz. :B

They are using a one inch thick, Johns Manville high density fiberglass panel, link below. It is the #817 panel.

http://www.jm.com/insulation/performance_materials/products/ci9_800series_spin-glas.pdf

[dyazdani]

I will also look into just treating fist order reflections, getting bass traps and might forgetting the Softwall approach.

This is probably a good start, it can be done "DIY style" for about $250 depending on your choice of materials. I think one of Thomas' links had some ideas on recipes...

Also keep in mind that a 3/4 or 1" panel will do next to nothing for the lower freqencies.

[dknightd]

If they are using the #817 panel, and you can get them to use a faced panel in some locations, this could be a good system. The Johns Manville #817 is essentially the same as the Owens Corning #805. Have them used unfaced panels at first reflection points. An unfaced 6 lb/ft**3 fiberglass panel will absorb well into at least midrange and above (some additional benefit at lower frequencies will also result from having the panel spaced from the wall with the steel stud system they use - if you can have them space the panel further from the wall, or fill the cavity with more material, this will also help lower midrange frequencies). If you use faced panels, with the facing toward the room, they will reflect most high frequencies and will help prevent the "dead room" sound associated with over absorption of higher frequencies. You'll probably still want some additional bass absorption - perhaps you can make fake pillers in the corners filled with the same material. If the panels are easy to remove, and flip around, you could experiment with how many panels you have with facing in, and how many with facing out. Of course, this presumes they would be willing to use faced panels.

[bigburner]

That's the opposite of how I think a 2 channel room should be done = LEDE (Live End Dead End)...

Hi Thomas,

Are you able to point me to a document that describes how LEDE might be applied in a home listening environment, particularly where the listening position is close to the back wall?

The documents I found using Google applied mainly to a studio environment where the listener is sitting at a mixing desk quite close to the monitors and a substantial distance from the back wall.

Nigel.

[dtb300]

I will also look into just treating fist order reflections, getting bass traps and might forgetting the Softwall approach.

For 1st reflection points I ended up using 2" Bonded Acoustical Cotton from Sensible Sound Solutions. Bought my own wood and fabric and made my own. These 6 panels I made replaced Auralex I was previously using - what a great improvement it was over the Auralex.

For bass trapping I have used the GIK 244 product and have been very satisfied with the results.

With these panels, they can be hung up so they are not permanent. This way you can experiment with placement and/or amounts and if you find it is too much, then you can remove some. Most do not realize what great sound you can get with the treatment of your room. Room affects on your sound is far greater than most realize.

I have my setup in my "audio bunker" - a partial basement with concrete all around me. I have 8 of the 244 panels in the corner, 3 more 244 along the back wall behind seating positions, and 6 of the 2" homemade ones - 2 of them on front wall behind speakers, 2 on side wall right next to the speakers, and 2 more on side wall at first reflection points. The 244 really helped with bass in the room - concrete really loves to accentuate the bass - and the 2" panels helped with sound depth, width, and left/right channel separation - and of course comb-filtering reduction.

It has been some of the BEST money I have spent on my setup in terms of sound improvements to $$$$ spent. Here is a picture of one of my homemade 2" panels (they are 2' x 4' in size).