Tube Time

[wkhanna]

I have reached a bit of a plateau in the 2-ch side of my system. Without making major expenditures in new/different equipment, I have decided to optimize what I currently have. So far, my source to speaker is: Cambridge 640 v1 CDp > SiverCat I/C’s > Carver C-19 pre > SiverCat I/C’s > Rotel RM 990-BX > 12 AWG (8") > Natalie P’s (68 litre, ported).

I am taking a two-prong approach with the first issue being acoustic treatments which I will be making myself.

The second is to delve into the back arts of tubes for my Carver pre.
The current sound is fairly middle-of-the-road in terms of the softly rounded off highs ( which is a good thing in my room which tends to bright side) decent mid, good clarity and voice reproduction, and a bottom end that while not earthshaking by any means, is fairly tight and controlled for my mostly acoustical jazz, with some Classical and older rock music CD library.

I’ve done some research/reading on tubes, but am a true novice and am looking for opinions on the subject of 6922 style tubes. Any and all info, references and advice will be greatly appreciated.
TIA

Bill

[spyboy]

If I was you, I might get one of the Sunfire amps that have a switch on the back that gives you either tube sound or solid state sound. This give you the best of both worlds.

All the Best

[wkhanna]

Hi spyboy!
That is definitely an interesting option! However, I have decided to keep the equipment I now have and concentrate on getting as close to the full potential it can deliver.

I’m V happy with my tube pre, to my ears, it softens the digital side of my souce signal and main power amp in a very pleasing and realistic way. I’m not saying valves will always sound better, it just seems to work well in my particular system and to my ‘ear’.
Also, I intend on adding a TT in the near future, and the C-19 pre phono section should serve well as a starting point as I venture into the world of vinyl.

[littlesaint]

I have reached a bit of a plateau in the 2-ch side of my system. Without making major expenditures in new/different equipment, I have decided to optimize what I currently have. So far, my source to speaker is: Cambridge 640 v1 CDp > SiverCat I/C’s > Carver C-19 pre > SiverCat I/C’s > Rotel RM 990-BX > 12 AWG (8") > Natalie P’s (68 litre, ported).

I am taking a two-prong approach with the first issue being acoustic treatments which I will be making myself.

The second is to delve into the back arts of tubes for my Carver pre.
The current sound is fairly middle-of-the-road in terms of the softly rounded off highs ( which is a good thing in my room which tends to bright side) decent mid, good clarity and voice reproduction, and a bottom end that while not earthshaking by any means, is fairly tight and controlled for my mostly acoustical jazz, with some Classical and older rock music CD library.

I’ve done some research/reading on tubes, but am a true novice and am looking for opinions on the subject of 6922 style tubes. Any and all info, references and advice will be greatly appreciated.
TIA

Bill

This is a nice tube reference:

BOI Audioworks

You might also want to look into tube power amps. I use SET monoblocks for 2Ch music, and love the sound. The only downside is you need fairly sensitive speakers >90dB at least.

[wkhanna]

Thanks, Saint!

Have you ever seen this site?link

FWIW, I am currently using Sovtek tubes.

You might also want to look into tube power amps.

Oh yes, but that day is a bitt far away at the momnent and limited by my budget. As I said, I'm just trying to fine-tune my current system till I can afford to take the step to the 'next level'. :W

[zmanbands]

Bill, give me a phone call

zmanbands

[wkhanna]

I finally ordered tubes.
After lost of reading, searching and talking to vendors, I place an order with Kevin at Upscale Audio.
He advised me to try some Electro-Harmonix from a V good batch he got his hands on. Typically not considered a 'high-end' valve, this batch is testing quite above normal and have been used with great success in V high-end pre's like the ARC and AI.
Not too often has someone advised me to spend less on one of there products because I'll get the same performance as if I had bought a higher-priced item from them!

Should have them by early next week.

[george_k]

with the first issue being acoustic treatments which I will be making myself.

Can you post pictures when your progress and completed project. I plan on starting a similar project in a couple months to tame and overly bright sounding room.

[wkhanna]

Can you post pictures when your progress and completed project. I plan on starting a similar project in a couple months to tame and overly bright sounding room.

I will be sure and keep you posted, George.

My new tubes were waiting for me when I got home from work today.
I would never have thought tubes in my pre could have such an effect on the sound of my system.
It’s like someone took their hands off the tweeters! I have a Mapleshade’s sampler disc that I am V familiar with that has a great track with snare and cymbals, I can not believe the resolution and realistic sound I am getting right now. Highs are so clean and crisp but not harsh. Female vocals are so real it’s almost creepy. And depth.......it’s like my room just got seven feet longer.
Bass is cleaner and yet has a warmth that I never heard from my system.

For less than $100 I just got an upgrade worth way more.
This tube rolling thing could get addictive. It’s truly amazing how changing a couple tubes can ‘tune’ your system.

[PewterTA]

That's great to hear Bill. Now I REALLY can't wait to come over and hear the system!

I might even have to find myself a nice tube system if I like it.

I'll definitely try to bring over the B&Ws to at least give me a good basis on what the differences are between our systems. ...and to find out how they fair against the mighty Twins!

[george_k]

As I said, I'm just trying to fine-tune my current system till I can afford to take the step to the 'next level'.

I agree with you which is why I'm hesitating on going the tube route too. Once you buy one piece of excellent equipment you start realizing how crummy the rest of the components are in relation (e.g. cd player, preamp, room acoustics). Why couldn't a fairly low-cost hobby such as knitting be this exciting!

[wkhanna]

Oh Yes! I know exactly what you are talking about!

But allow me to facilitate your dark urges a bit, based on my own experience.
Upgrading your pre-amp is IMHO, a great way to descend into the abyss.......errr.....ehh......I mean get some real value from a single upgrade while at the same time improving the sound of your entire system. If we look at the entire picture, think about how we can justify....errr.....ehh.....I mean approach this conundrum from a logical perspective. Your pre-amp affects everything in your system, from source to speaker. My point is, you will get more 'bang for your buck' by upgrading your pre-amp than just about any other component, (maybe aside from speakers, some may argue).

There are some interesting tube pre's on Agon all the time, such as Rouge and AI, for well under $1K, that, with some rationally priced tubes in the $25 to $70 range, would make a fine addition for anyone looking to improve the SQ on the 2-ch side of their system.

[wkhanna]

Can you post pictures when your progress and completed project. I plan on starting a similar project in a couple months to tame and overly bright sounding room.

Hi George,
Here is a site I found V helpful and interesting.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

[dtb300]

When you need to get into treatments. I suggest either Glenn and Bryan at GIK Acoustics or Ethan at Real Traps. Both offer great products and excellent consultation service. These are the TOP TWO people out there for room treatments for home audio enthusisast along with home recording artists.

https://www.gikacoustics.com

https://www.realtraps.com

Watch out for the clones or poorly performing products. Ethan at Real Traps has a great page on Fraud with regards to treatments. Examples are Foam By Mail, Cathedral Panels, etc. Review his page to get in the know about these poorly performing products.

To also help you out, you need to get yourself a Rad Shack SPL meter (analog model) and a program to read the response of your room. Get the real facts on your room from the software, do not guess. Use products like ETF or Room EQ Wizard. ETF is shareware with some minor restrictions, and REW is Free. The best thing about these programs is not only do you they give your room response curves, but they also give your waterfall graphs which Glenn, Bryan, and Ethan will also want to see.

Next thing is you need to do is: READ, READ, READ from the following forums and learn as much as you can from other audio enthusiasts along with Glenn, Bryan, and Ethan who post there:

Audio Circles

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=73.0

Ethan's own forum

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthr...oard/24/page/1

Home Theater Shack - Home of REW

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...dio-acoustics/

Rives Audio

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=rives

Also the Subwoofer forum over at AVS sometimes has discussions about treatments.

[wkhanna]

Thanks, dtb300.

I have been talking with Ethan.
I find him often on the Stereophile magazine forum, were he is a regular poster.

[dave]

I've been dealing with Kevin @ upscale ever since I got into Valves. He is
very honest and doesn't try to sell you something more expensive if you can benefit from a lower priced option. The Mullards that he recommended for my
VTL Pre.. made my Vandys literally come to life. I would be interested in hearing what he suggests for the Mcintosh... Hmm.... more, more, more...

[wkhanna]

Well.....regarding the acoustic treatments......I do believe I finally found the PERFECT bass trap!

It was cheap, fairly easy to install, and best of all, the Wife actually likes IT!

pic is below

[Briz vegas]

I'm experimenting with controlling vibration on my CD player by installing something soft and heavy on the casing.

[PewterTA]

Bill, what Bass trap did you find?!?!

[Alloroc]

I'm experimenting with controlling vibration on my CD player by installing something soft and heavy on the casing.

:rofl: Does 'purr' help with jitter?!

[george_k]

Also looking to add tubes to my setup, I've been looking at tube pre's in the $1500-2000 range new. My shortlist so far consists of:

Primaluna Prologue 3
Manley Shrimp
de Havilland Ultraverve Junior

Unfortunately auditioning the Manley and de Havilland units may prove difficult as there are no dealers nearby :-(

[PewterTA]

:rofl: Does 'purr' help with jitter?!

It's an Anti-jitter functionality. If done right (with the right match of feline to component, it can completely elimate jitter all together. :lol:

[wkhanna]

Bill, what Bass trap did you find?!?!

scrole down, padawan!

only problem so far is that the soundstage seems a bit compressed?

[twitch54]

I'm experimenting with controlling vibration on my CD player by installing something soft and heavy on the casing.

I love the "anti-kitty" grids you have to protect your speakers, clever !

[twitch54]

He advised me to try some Electro-Harmonix from a V good batch he got his hands on. Typically not considered a 'high-end' valve, this batch is testing quite above normal and have been used with great success in V high-end pre's like the ARC and AI.

Glad to hear your liking the EH 6922's, I've read in several places that the 6922's when placed in higher gain roles can be at times microphonic and that the EH's were the least offensive and in fact quite good indeed ! I'm guessing this is part of the reason more tube pre's are going over to the 6H30P tube.

[fattner]

My Maggies sing w/ tubes !!!!

I know I am new to this forum and I am not as smart as all of you(techincal stuff) ;x( ,but I do know what sounds good to me and as for tubes in a system ,wow its hard to beat!!!.I recently purchased a Mac C-2200 tube pre-amp and with that addition to my system my Maggies(3.6) sing so sweet,before they use to sound after awhile kind of harsh with my Mac c-45 ,but now my collection of music sounds more complete .As for new music try the new telarc recording of the Nutkracker(hybrid/sacd)w/ your new tubes and tell me what you think? Harry,Ca