wierd problem with my oppo 970- NO BASS

[peterS]

tried watching a movie today with my newly hooked up subwoofer and no bass
suspected it was something defective on the preeamp

switched cd and dvd's inputs to see and nope still no bass (ie cd player works in either way dvd does not)

tried the sub out on the dvd player to the amp and still no bass ( yes i switched sub "on" on the menu)

as a last resort i tried the l/r output and still NO BASS (speakers set to large)

it seems the oppo hpf the l/r but wont turn on the sub in 2.1

i HAVE done the latest firmware upgrade

sound will come out of the subwoofer if i defeat its crossover
if i turn it all the way up i do get bass just severely rolled off as though a hpf is in place

any ideas
wtf :M

[Brandon B]

I take it initially you were running a digital out from the Oppo to the pre?

And it was working after your most recent firmware upgrade, and then suddenly stopped working properly?

When you said you tried speakers set to large, you mean using digital output to your pre, and speakers set to large in the pre, or using L/R from the Oppo with its setting at speakers = large, right?

Out of curiosity, what DVD is it? Could it be the disk?

BB

[peterS]

sorry, ill clarify

i have a rotel preamp (stereo), a pair of bookshelf speakers
a buttkicker amp (has its own defeatable x/o and volume control)

what i do is have the full range signal come out of my pre via the "record" output
this allows me to use the sub w/ any input

now the sub is a new addition so i never noticed this problem before - i was just mentioning the firmware in case it was the known cause

to reiterate:

what is fed to my sub amp seems to be non existent until i defeat the x/o then it is obvious i am getting a hpf signal- meaning the oppo puts a hfp on the left and right speaker analogue outputs (dispite speakers set to large)!

accepting that as an annoying rerality i tried the sub output- w/ the sub setting "on"
same problem

i always though that my SACD's lacked bass but i assumed it was due to them being old analogue recordings- now i know better! ops:

the service emailed me back right away so i will try to remedy it w/ there suggestions and report back regardless

after playing around w/ the oppo's settings i feel that a lot of the features are unnecessary or counter intuitive imo

[peterS]

so basically this is what i have to do to get any sound out of my subwoofer:

disconnect my sub from the preamp and connect it to the dvd player
turn my speakers to small further raising the hpf (no the hpf is not defeatable on the left right channels)

then i need to go into trim and turn it to +10db on the sub level

that is the procedure i must do every time i listen to a sacd cd or dvd-a or dvd
with my sub on all because the output from the sub out is way too weak and there is a high pass filter on the left and right channels no matter what

to me this is fishy to me
some one please confirm that theres behaves normal (ie not like this)- i find it hard to believe that i am the first to notice this

[peterS]

here is what i wrote them:
so the hpf on the left/ right channels is NOT defeatable? furthermore, i need to raise it even higher ("small" ) for the sub out to be active along w/ boosting the signal of the sub out 10db (surprisingly still weak)? FYI in order to facilitate this i have to rewire my sub and switch my speakers to "small" while subsequently frequency response suffers from a dip from 40-100hz every time i would want to use the dv-970hd.
is this just a huge oversight on oppo's part or is my unit defective?
please send me an ra # for replacement or reimbursement depending on the cause
thank you

[whoaru99]

The first problem I see is using the sub on the "record" outputs. Those are generally fixed level output so to maintain an equal level of bass you will need to readjust the sub amp level each and every time you change the volume on the preamp.

From there, it gets muddy to me...

I think it would be helpful to list the model of the Rotel preamp and what connections you are using from the Oppo player to the preamp.

In all honesty, I think the connection methodology and expectations of what should happen are at conflict and that nothing is defective or broken per se. My gut feeling is that it boils down to connections and trying to adjust multichannel settings when you seem to be in a stereo downmix situation.

Again, please list the Rotel preamp model and how, exactly, the Oppo player is connected to the preamp.

[peterS]

The first problem I see is using the sub on the "record" outputs. Those are generally fixed level output so to maintain an equal level of bass you will need to readjust the sub amp level each and every time you change the volume on the preamp.

i am more then aware of that that is why i bought a sub amp with volume control

From there, it gets muddy to me...

I think it would be helpful to list the model of the Rotel preamp and what connections you are using from the Oppo player to the preamp.

the preamp rotel makes is the 1070
i am using analog l/r to the preamp (these are hpf from the oppo no mater what apparently)
this same setup works beautifully w/o all other sources

In all honesty, I think the connection methodology and expectations of what should happen are at conflict and that nothing is defective or broken per se. My gut feeling is that it boils down to connections and trying to adjust multichannel settings when you seem to be in a stereo downmix situation.

to reiterate
i also suspected that some settings needed to be changed on the oppo
surprisingly there is no way to bypass the hpf on the left / right channels even when set to "large" which is very lame imo

so plan b
use the sub out when i use the oppo causing me annoyance but still feasible
more problems:

the sub output must be boosted to +10db to get realizable signal.
the speakers must be set to "small" further raising my hpf on my l/r speakers
given that my sub is x/o at 40hz and the mains are crossed at what sounds like 100hz this method, not to mention i need to manually switch from large to small every time i want the sub to operate, is also unacceptable

to impress upon you how rolled off the bass is via the l/r if i pass full signal into the sub amp bass output is the same whether the sub is x/o or full passed

oppos service confirmed these are the "proper" setings :roll:

[whoaru99]

i am more then aware of that that is why i bought a sub amp with volume control

Why are you not using the 2nd set of main outputs on the 1070 for the subwoofer? That would give you a variable level signal controlled by the 1070 volume.

Also, on the Buttkicker amp I looked at there is only one input. If you have simply used a "Y" cable to join the preamp L/R outputs to the subwoofer, that is not the way to do it. It basically shorts out the outputs that way.

If that's the case you can easily make a summing network from a couple of resistors (maybe 4.7kΩ) that will allow you to properly feed the single sub amp input from both channels of the preamp.

If you are using a "Y", just remove it for now and use one channel output until we get it going more satisfactorily.

the preamp rotel makes is the 1070
i am using analog l/r to the preamp (these are hpf from the oppo no mater what apparently)
this same setup works beautifully w/o all other sources

OK. You are connected with L/R analog connections. For this setup, since you have no surround speakers, you need to use the Oppo connections L/R "Mixed" so you get a full range signal to the Rotel 1070.

Don't use the L/R "Front" connections from the Oppo, they are for preamps with multi-channel analog inputs and will only confuse matters with the speaker size settings.

to reiterate
i also suspected that some settings needed to be changed on the oppo
surprisingly there is no way to bypass the hpf on the left / right channels even when set to "large" which is very lame imo

You need to be sure in the Oppo setup menu "Speaker Setup Page" you have Downmix set to Stereo.

In the Oppo "General Setup Page" you need to try two different settings.
1. SACD Priority, try multichannel first and if that does not work then change it to 2-channel. If both settings work, leave it on which ever one seems to sound better - if you can tell any difference at all.

2. DVD-Audio Mode, try first DVD-Audio and if that doesn't work then change it to DVD-Video. If both settings work, leave it on which ever one seems to sound better - if you can tell any difference at all.

so plan b
use the sub out when i use the oppo causing me annoyance but still feasible
more problems:

the sub output must be boosted to +10db to get realizable signal.
the speakers must be set to "small" further raising my hpf on my l/r speakers
given that my sub is x/o at 40hz and the mains are crossed at what sounds like 100hz this method, not to mention i need to manually switch from large to small every time i want the sub to operate, is also unacceptable

to impress upon you how rolled off the bass is via the l/r if i pass full signal into the sub amp bass output is the same whether the sub is x/o or full passed

I suspect the bass is feeble because you are trying to use the multichannel features but are not sending the subwoofer signal to the receiver without a connection from the OPPO sub output jack.

oppos service confirmed these are the "proper" setings :roll:

They may have confirmed those setting, but I don't think they understood the problems.



Please set up/connect as I have suggested and report back.

I believe it will work as suggested. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[peterS]

Why are you not using the 2nd set of main outputs on the 1070 for the subwoofer? That would give you a variable level signal controlled by the 1070 volume.

unfortunately the sub cannot keep up spl wise with the mains that way

Also, on the Buttkicker amp I looked at there is only one input. If you have simply used a "Y" cable to join the preamp L/R outputs to the subwoofer, that is not the way to do it. It basically shorts out the outputs that way.

If that's the case you can easily make a summing network from a couple of resistors (maybe 4.7kΩ) that will allow you to properly feed the single sub amp input from both channels of the preamp.

If you are using a "Y", just remove it for now and use one channel output until we get it going more satisfactorily.

im currently majoring in EE - its a mono :W

You need to be sure in the Oppo setup menu "Speaker Setup Page" you have Downmix set to Stereo.

In the Oppo "General Setup Page" you need to try two different settings.
1. SACD Priority, try multichannel first and if that does not work then change it to 2-channel. If both settings work, leave it on which ever one seems to sound better - if you can tell any difference at all.

2. DVD-Audio Mode, try first DVD-Audio and if that doesn't work then change it to DVD-Video. If both settings work, leave it on which ever one seems to sound better - if you can tell any difference at all.




I suspect the bass is feeble because you are trying to use the multichannel features but are not sending the subwoofer signal to the receiver without a connection from the OPPO sub output jack.


They may have confirmed those setting, but I don't think they understood the problems.



Please set up/connect as I have suggested and report back.

I believe it will work as suggested. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

i also suspected that
all settings are as you stated

guess ill just have to live with it as oppo has not responded nor granted an ra
i watched my first move with it (yes i never watch movies) and there are green blotches in anything black- and yes i have tried three different hdmi cables- one being the one they provided, granted i dont have the best tv but it does blacks fine via my dtv box
guess ill have to prevent others from making the same mistake instead
sorry to all those i recommended oppo to

[wolfgang]

IMHO your difficulty was due to the stupidity of the whole recording audio communities for worrying too much about protecting some precious copyrights of a few minutes of digital bits. The vast amount of connection options are just too confusing and small independent manufacturers just try to play along. What would be good is to have an agreed simply standard that everyone uses.

Just one universal wire for everything ...... that allows us to just plug and play within a few seconds. The audio world should learn from the pattern of evolution of the computers designs. Just keep making the set up procedure simplier and simplier.

[cobbpa]

peterS, I would suggest disconnecting everything from your Oppo and starting from scratch, re-thinking connection choices and maybe even examining the manual for suggestions on settings & wiring. I also had a 2.1 setup this summer and the Oppo did fine for me. I'm saying, I think it's possible that some setting or something may be throwing a wrench in the works. Hopefully it's something that an afternoon of playing with various configurations to get your Oppo and Rotel to play nice together could really pay off. I encourage you to keep trying & posting for help! Good luck :T

[whoaru99]

unfortunately the sub cannot keep up spl wise with the mains that way

Huh? That's why Rotel put them there at least according to Rotel, anyway - to drive a second power amp or signal processor, etc. It's pretty much the underlying basis for all preamp to amp/subwoofer connections.

im currently majoring in EE - its a mono :W

What do you mean by "it's a mono"? I know what mono means, but "it's a mono" is unclear, at least to me.

i also suspected that
all settings are as you stated

Am I to take it that means you've tried all the settings and connections I recommended in a complete combination?

guess ill just have to live with it as oppo has not responded nor granted an ra
i watched my first move with it (yes i never watch movies) and there are green blotches in anything black- and yes i have tried three different hdmi cables- one being the one they provided, granted i dont have the best tv but it does blacks fine via my dtv box

Well, maybe you have a defective unit, but I'm not convinced of that.

guess ill have to prevent others from making the same mistake instead
sorry to all those i recommended oppo to

IMO, far too many report great results, although I have not personally seen/heard one, to make a blanket negative statement like that.

I'm tired of exchanging a $50 player, brand "T", about every 6 to 9 months when it starts acting up. Not trying to rub dirt in your wounds, but I'll probably go with the Oppo given the overwhelming majority of favorable information.

My gut feel is still that your connections and/or settings are the issue, but anyway, good luck...

[peterS]

Huh? That's why Rotel put them there at least according to Rotel, anyway - to drive a second power amp or signal processor, etc. It's pretty much the underlying basis for all preamp to amp/subwoofer connections.

the buttkicker needs more input voltage in my particular setup to mach up with my speakers

if it had a gain instead it wouldnt be a problem but in my case it is

What do you mean by "it's a mono"? I know what mono means, but "it's a mono" is unclear, at least to me.

it is hooked up to only one channel- no y cable

Well, maybe you have a defective unit, but I'm not convinced of that.



IMO, far too many report great results, although I have not personally seen/heard one, to make a blanket negative statement like that.

I'm tired of exchanging a $50 player, brand "T", about every 6 to 9 months when it starts acting up. Not trying to rub dirt in your wounds, but I'll probably go with the Oppo given the overwhelming majority of favorable information.

My gut feel is still that your connections and/or settings are the issue, but anyway, good luck...

im not convinced of that either
i played around with "gamma" and rectified the issues with blacks to my satisfaction

i think part of the problem with the bass is that the oppo is just lean on bass
this was exacerbated by the fact that the buttkickers sensitivity isnt the same as my rb 1080 so with the increased dynamics of 24 bit info i need to turn the volume up exponentially further on the buttkicker- much further than i ever would with a cd

the sub out still strikes me as too weak but im not interested in using that anyways

lastly i think ive just had sand in my shorts this week
so id say no its not perfect but still the best for the money
thanks for the suggestions

[whoaru99]

it is hooked up to only one channel- no y cable

This could be a good bit of the issue. Since you are running a stereo setup but using only one channel for the sub, it would seem you may be missing roughly 1/2 the bass - at the very least you are missing what ever bass is in the channel you are not connected too.

Maybe you should build that simple resistor-based L/R summing network to feed both L and R output from the 1070 to the Buttkicker amp. That may fix you right up, or at least give a significant improvement, I'd think.

[peterS]

This could be a good bit of the issue. Since you are running a stereo setup but using only one channel for the sub, it would seem you may be missing roughly 1/2 the bass - at the very least you are missing what ever bass is in the channel you are not connected too.

Maybe you should build that simple resistor-based L/R summing network to feed both L and R output from the 1070 to the Buttkicker amp. That may fix you right up, or at least give a significant improvement, I'd think.

it works fine with all other sources- ie a dual layer sacd will play fine on the cd layer but be lean on the sacd side via the oppo
to me that eliminates the possibility of sub frequencies being mixed in stereo as a potential cause

on a side note the green blotches were in fact not completely rectified for some movies

anyone by chance familiar with the phenomenon? is it just incompatibility's with hdmi circuitry? the blacks will be dark squares (very poor gradation) with a green swimming around in it 8O

[whoaru99]

it works fine with all other sources- ie a dual layer sacd will play fine on the cd layer but be lean on the sacd side via the oppo
to me that eliminates the possibility of sub frequencies being mixed in stereo as a potential cause

Well, it's a glaringly obvious problem in your setup to take bass from only one channel of your stereo setup. As an EE student I'd think you'd see that too.

I guess if you don't want to take a chance on a few blobs of solder and a couple resistors to make that summing network, there isn't much point in further advice. Not only will it add the bass that is missing from the other channel, it just might help out with that level difference between the Buttkicker setup and the 1080 setup.

Oh well...you can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make it drink. At least I tried...

[peterS]

Well, it's a glaringly obvious problem in your setup to take bass from only one channel of your stereo setup. As an EE student I'd think you'd see that too.

I guess if you don't want to take a chance on a few blobs of solder and a couple resistors to make that summing network, there isn't much point in further advice. Not only will it add the bass that is missing from the other channel, it just might help out with that level difference between the Buttkicker setup and the 1080 setup.

Oh well...you can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make it drink. At least I tried...

:roll: your agenda's showing

1) ive made it clear it works with everything but the oppo

2) ive also suggested that the source material that i am able to play in cd has significantly higher bass output on the low end- although the greater compression may attribute to this variation it doesnt account for all of it

3) countless reviews have sighted the same phenomenon with the oppo- infact using the sub out at 10+ db directly into my amp is still lean on the low end but begins to clip audibly closer to 100hz

4)the only way your suggestion would help is if the right channel contained information the left didnt or vice a versa but #2 suggest otherwise and suggests #3 ie the oppo has weak bass output

5) your assumption that the buttkicker has the exact same input sensitivity and that my speakers have the same sensitivity relative to my sub is flawed

so what doesnt seem to be clear to you is that the bass is roled off- not a reduced level across the entire bandwidth that would simply be resolved with raising the volume on my buttkicker as your theory would suggest

[whoaru99]

:roll: your agenda's showing

What agenda is what? To help you fix your system?

My apologies for trying to help out. I'll refrain from offering you any further advice.

Good luck on a solution.

BTW, if this is a known flaw of the Oppo why are you still trying to fix it?

You needn't respond to that on my behalf, it was rhetorical in nature anyway.