External DAC recommendations please

[Brandon B]

r100gs -

Actually most cables marked with arrows ARE directional. They have metal shielding which is tied to ground only at one end, and for correct operation of that shielding, this should be the source end (I think, maybe I have that backwards).

So there is, in fact a very valid reason to observe the directionality. They will work fine either way, but the shielding will be more effective if you follow the arrows.

BB

[whoaru99]

r100gs -

Actually most cables marked with arrows ARE directional. They have metal shielding which is tied to ground only at one end, and for correct operation of that shielding, this should be the source end (I think, maybe I have that backwards).

So there is, in fact a very valid reason to observe the directionality. They will work fine either way, but the shielding will be more effective if you follow the arrows.

BB

I have some cables with arrows on them, but I have never seen compelling theory as to why the shielding should work better connected at one end vs. the other. I agree that from a mechanical standpoint the arrow typically points to the floating end of the shield but electrically it seems the same to me.

Since the cables I have with the arrows are STP (shielded twisted pair) construction, there is one wire for the RCA tip, one wire for the RCA shell, and then the shield. Since the wire for the RCA shell is the signal ground at both ends of the cable, it would seem it shouldn't matter at what end the shield is connected since in either case it's connected to the same ground reference.

[bigburner]

Bigburner, if you want to do some comparisons with regards to interconnects or cables in general, a simple method is to use one cable for the left channel and another for the right, then feed the system a mono signal, this tends to make any differences noticeable or not.

Thanks Richard, that's an interesting idea but I don't understand how it would work in practice. Once the music is playing do you walk from one speaker to the other, or do you sit in the sweet spot to compare the sound coming from each speaker?

Nigel.

[whoaru99]

You are 100% correct. If I were getting this to evaluate for potential business purposes I would have pulled the plug on AD.

Thought about trying to pull that string, but I decided against it because I generally strive to be pretty honest and forthright. I do work for a VERY large globally based company who's name I probably could throw around but my influence within the company (and the company's core business) is not related to this sort of thing.

I sometimes wonder if AD really does not want to make this DAC anymore, but they don't want to be the one to pull the plug so the keep pushing it back in hopes that everyone cancels - then pull the plug relatively unannounced.

EDIT: Oh, and I made a mistake on the delivery date. Not Dec. 6th, it says Dec. 4th....

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

Just in case anyone cares besides me, Dec. 4th has come and gone. I have not yet received the eval board and the AD webstore indicates not yet shipped...

I am going to leave the order open indefinitely if nothing more than to make someone look at it every time open orders are reviewed and to mess with "the system".

[AptosJeff]

Sorry to hear that, whoaru99.

I was looking forward to your review. Have you called them? What do they say? Anyway, I'm still enjoying the Lavry Black, but been so busy listening to new music, no time to post here.

Back to topic, I can't help thinking there is something cheaper that would do the job. Anyone else found something less than $1000 usd, and as good as Benchmark or Lavry?

[bigburner]

Back to topic, I can't help thinking there is something cheaper that would do the job. Anyone else found something less than $1000 usd, and as good as Benchmark or Lavry?

Good question AptosJeff!

I was in a music shop today buying guitar strings and got talking to the sales assistant. It turned out he was a hi-fi enthusiast who owned amongst other things a Benchmark DAC1 and a Behringer DEQ2496. He was very enthusiastic about the DEQ2496 and mildly enthusiastic about the DAC1.

Anyway, to get to the point of this post, he spoke very highly of the DAC qualities of the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496, which is described in Behringer's web site as an "Ultra High-Resolution 24-Bit/96 kHz A/D-D/A & Sample Rate Converter". He said that the DAC in the SRC2496 was better than the DAC in the DEQ2496 because it included anti-jitter capability.

In New Zealand the SRC2496 sells for NZ$399 so in the USA it would sell for US$270 at the most. That's very cheap if it's any good.

Has anyone had any experience with this device?

Nigel.

[jim777]

For my computer I just got a usb powered Tascam US-144. It can't be used as a stand-alone DAC but it is great for the computer. You can't have any jitter because it is the Tascam that clocks the DAC (and the stream of data from the computer, not the other way around!).

As far as the headphone playback goes, it is a great match with HD650's. Removes all the "darkness" from them. I'll have to try it on my Hifi to see how the line-out sounds... I also use it for recording mics and guitar.

I think a card like the US-144 is a better solution for computer playback than a DAC on a SPDIF interface. This way there is no jitter to get rid of. With SPDIF, the DAC has to be sync with the data coming in.

Of course, with a CD or DVD player, a stand-alone DAC is a must...

[bigburner]

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

Just in case anyone cares besides me, Dec. 4th has come and gone. I have not yet received the eval board and the AD webstore indicates not yet shipped...

I am going to leave the order open indefinitely if nothing more than to make someone look at it every time open orders are reviewed and to mess with "the system".

Did it arrive?

[whoaru99]

Nope, still on (back) order...

My online order still showed the Dec. 4th due date last time I looked.

Nice, eh? Gotta love that customer service. Won't be too long and it'll have been on order for a YEAR!!!

[bigburner]

Back to topic, I can't help thinking there is something cheaper that would do the job. Anyone else found something less than $1000 usd, and as good as Benchmark or Lavry?

The Zhaolu D 2.5 is receiving a lot of positive feedback in other forums. At a price of either US$129 or US$195 it seems hard to believe that the Zhaolu could be any good.

Most people buy their Zhaolu DACs from Eddie Wu at a Hong Kong company called DIYKITS (www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html).

Has anyone out there listened to one of these Zhaolu DACs?

Is there an EE out there who can comment on the components (D/A conversion and audio output) used in these devices?

[8thDwarf]

Finally the Zhaolu comes up!

I've read great things on the web about the Zhaolu.
?Head-fi?... a shootout using a speaker based system,a lightly modded Zhaolu running with Lavry 10 & Benchmark, the Zhaolu preffered.
$200,I best place an order...then I found this and it gives me pause.
Maybe further posts will illuminate?
My skill level in soldering or simple fixes requires plug and play.

[bigburner]

I'd like to finish this thread by reporting that my new LFD DAC3 has made a significant improvement to the SQ of my system. The edginess of my Oppo DVD has been replaced by a full, rich sound. I'm also using the Oppo + LFD as my CD player instead of my Rotel CDP (which also has a superior SQ to the Oppo).

Whilst doing an A/B comparision of the LFD with the Oppo revealed small differences, it has been my extensive listening sessions using the LFD that have revealed the true benefits. For example, at the end of a 2 hour DVD concert I'm aware that it's been a superior listening experience to the last time that I watched the same DVD using the Oppo's DAC. I'd like to provide a detailed description of the improvements but "richer" is the best adjective that I can find. My 16-year old son thinks that live music sounds more live, and I tend to agree with him.

If I had auditioned the Benchmark DAC1 for longer perhaps I would have come to the same conclusion. This has taught me that auditioning new equipment requires extensive listening over a protracted period.

My guess is that it's the LFD's audio output stage that makes the big difference, not necessarily the DAC chip itself, because the Oppo does have a modern CS4360 192KHz/24bit DAC. The LFD is a large, heavy piece of equipment so presumably a lot of attention has been paid to the audio output stage.

The background to my getting the LFD DAC3 can be found in this thread: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=24506

[whoaru99]

Nope, still on (back) order...

My online order still showed the Dec. 4th due date last time I looked.

Nice, eh? Gotta love that customer service. Won't be too long and it'll have been on order for a YEAR!!!

FYI... still have not received the AD eval board. It's still listed as current production on their website, but the new estimated ship date is 5/4/2007 - keep in mind I placed my order on or about 4/28/2006.

About a week, week and a half ago, I sent a letter to an Analog Devices VP expressing my dissatisfaction on how this has been handled.

And yes, it was a "professional" customer complaint letter that clearly laid out the problem (have not received my order and new estimate is more than 1 year past order date). What my expectation is (deliver the product advertised for sale in a timely manner). Then called to task/pointed out a piece of the AD company values statement (dedication to customer). Finally applied the "butter" (heard good things about the product, don't want to go to someone else) and the closing plea for help getting this resolved.

It'll be interesting to see if I receive a reply...

[whoaru99]

Well, "delivery" has been pushed back again. Now it's saying sometime in June.

What a joke...

Never heard anything from my letter either.

Maybe a call/letter to BBB would light a fire.

Anyone have an "in" with Analog Devices to find out why a "production" eval board takes more than one year to deliver?

[Martyn]

There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are.

----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

If it's any consolation, I think you might have just found an exception.

[whoaru99]

Hehehe...LOL....

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you may be right.

[Audiophiliac]

Ill throw in my $.02 since I have recently started doing some research and discovery in preparation to put together a simple 2 channel rig using a dedicated PC as the single source. I have found the best resource to be Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. He is the KING of the whole computer audio/USB/I2S etc. front. I have learned a ton from reading his site and posts in various forums.

Even if you arent looking for a DAC for your PC, it would be a learning experience to study some of Steve's work. Very informative at the least.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Deleted

[tyler]

I have 4 audio systems in the house. They range from a BIG quad-amped hybrid ESL/magnetic planar array, to a Sony ES receiver powering DIY 2-ways in the bedroom. In any system where I've installed the DAC1, it's improved the SQ.

The DAC1 has improved the SQ of every player in the house from the Redbook out of my $3800 SACD player, to a lowly LiteOn DVD player

At this point I going to buy a second one. Now I'm trying to decide if I should find a used one and save a few bucks, or pop for a pretty new silver one.... :T

I agree with Thomas on this one. I also own a Benchmark Dac1 and there was a noticeable difference with every source used with it. This would include high end transports, Slim Devices Squeeze Box and direct pc connection to a sound card.

Another DAC in the same price range that has had some good reviews is the Musical Fidelity XDAC. Although they do not make this unit any longer you can find it used occasionally on EBay or Audiogon. :B

[whoaru99]

Nope, still on (back) order...

My online order still showed the Dec. 4th due date last time I looked.

Nice, eh? Gotta love that customer service. Won't be too long and it'll have been on order for a YEAR!!!

Latest update....

Analog Devices no longer lists the AD1955 DAC eval board in their on-line store, but the chips are still for sale.

My order is still showing open with estimated delivery of 5/31/2007, but I seriously doubt that'll happen. Keep in mind the order was placed 4/28/2006.

I wonder how long it will be before AD cancels my order and tells me the product is no longer available? Anyone care to take a guess just for fun?

[twitch54]

FYI... still have not received the AD eval board. It's still listed as current production on their website, but the new estimated ship date is 5/4/2007 - keep in mind I placed my order on or about 4/28/2006.

not trying to be smart, but why would one do business with a company like that ???? If you ever did recieve it and something was wrong what are your chances of being made whole ????

[whoaru99]

I understand your point, but I am willing to accept risk in good faith on an evaluation board (cost <$200 USD).

I have no doubt that AD will eventually wear me down in the matter through no response to letters, emails, putting me off with the dangled carrot of new anticipated ship dates when I call, etc. This has been the case for 1 year now.

However, it's become somewhat of a principle thing now. It was advertised for sale, I placed an order, now deliver the product. If there is no intent to deliver, at least have the decency and common courtesy to tell me it's not going to happen!!

[whoaru99]

Well, the planets have finally aligned for me on this deal.

Got a notice from Analog Devices that the order has shipped - I even got a tracking number so it seems legit this time. ETA is this Friday (May 11th); 378 days since I placed the order...

I'll bet you're all happy now that I won't be whining about it anymore. :lol:

Problem is, now a mini-review is sorta pointless since it appears the eval board has been discontinued, or at least removed from their website. Pointless from the aspect being able for anyone else to get one as a cheap external DAC solution if it turns out to be a decent piece.

[jim777]

It will still tell us if a high performance eval DAC can perform well on a non-overkill power supply. What will you be using to power the board?

[whoaru99]

I believe the board requires +/-12VDC so I'm thinking on such short notice I'll start by using two 12V 7.2Ahr VRLA batteries. I hadn't really worked out PS details because frankly, I didn't think I'd ever get it after the first few delays. I can borrow a lab-grade PS from work if necessary, but depending on the current draw, I'd think it would operate quite a while on the batteries. It would be no problem for me to charge the batteries occasionally, or before any particularly critical listening.

[whoaru99]

Here it is, laid bare for all to see...

Only had the power on for about 10 minutes now. My initial impression is that it sounds a bit more open and a bit smoother than the analog out of the player (using Denon DCD-1560).

However, I'll have to do more careful level matching and certainly more A/B comparison before saying too much with any degree of confidence.