External DAC recommendations please

[whoaru99]

The main reason is cost. Most of the other eval boards are more than double in price. Yes, still about 1/2 or less than Lavry DA10 and Benchmark, but this is supposed be my coach class ticket to paradise.

I've thought about canceling, but I've already waited this long. I'd REALLY be ticked off if I canceled and the other guys I know who have ordered got theirs end of Oct.

[Spearmint]

I agree. The Oppo has great PQ but the SQ is a little edgy.

I have discovered that Benchmark has only one dealer in New Zealand - a guy who works out of his home. No Web address. I've phoned him four times but he's always out. Benchmark won't ship direct to customers living in a country that has dealers.

The trials and tribulations of hi-fi...

BB if your serious about getting a DAC1 I can source you one on this side of the Tasman, either new or maybe second hand.

[bigburner]

BB if your serious about getting a DAC1 I can source you one on this side of the Tasman, either new or maybe second hand.

Richard, I've sent you a PM.

Nigel.

[MarkR]

Hi Nigel,

I assume you are trying to contact Wells Audio, I have dealt with Lew Wells a couple of times. As you mentioned he works from home but he does have a day job so you are best to try phoning him after hours (doesn't even own a mobile) leave a message if you want he will return your calls.

IIRC the Benchmark is about AU$1600 so I doupt you will save any by purchasing over the ditch. I'm pretty sure Lew will offer a 30 day return policy on the Benchmark but I can almost guarantee you won't be sending it back.

[bigburner]

Hi Nigel,

I assume you are trying to contact Wells Audio, I have dealt with Lew Wells a couple of times. As you mentioned he works from home but he does have a day job so you are best to try phoning him after hours (doesn't even own a mobile) leave a message if you want he will return your calls.

IIRC the Benchmark is about AU$1600 so I doupt you will save any by purchasing over the ditch. I'm pretty sure Lew will offer a 30 day return policy on the Benchmark but I can almost guarantee you won't be sending it back.

Hi Mark,

Yup, it's Wells Audio. I got his daughter today (I think) and he's currently on holiday.

Why are you so confident that I won't want to send the DAC1 back? Are you an owner?

Nigel.

[MarkR]

I don't own one, not yet anyway. I have a X-DACv3 which I bought at the start of the year, it was a shop demo on special which made it $700 cheaper than the Benchmark and I needed the extra dosh for a pair of speakers I was building at the time. The X-Dac is very good but I recently borrowed a Benchmark from Lew for a week and the main difference IMO (and this is going to sound very cliche) is the vocals sounded very 'analogue'.

I was going to sell the X-Dac but I figured my money was best spent at this stage by changing the preamp instead. I sold my Rotel 985 and have recently purchased a second hand Perreaux SM-6.

I assume you will like the Benchmark as I too like the Rotel sound as I own a Rotel RB1080 and have owned a 965BX CD player as well as the 985, and have enjoyed British speakers in the past (although Kef not B&W) so it would be fair to say our tastes are likely not dissimilar.

[bigburner]

Evaluation of Benchmark DAC-1, with surprising results

I found a local hi-fi shop that was kind enough to lend me a Benchmark DAC-1 for a 7-day evaluation. Here are the key points of my evaluation.

I evaluated the DAC-1 against:
• Rotel RCD-855 CD player.
• OPPO Digital OPDV971H DVD player.

I used the following equipment:
• Rotel RC-1070 preamp.
• Rotel RB-1080 amp.
• B&W CDM9NT speakers.

Connections:
• Digital coax from transport to DAC-1 (Silver Starlight 5).
• Unbalanced RCA from DAC-1 to preamp (Harmony Gold).
• Unbalanced RCA from Rotel’s analogue output to preamp (Harmony Gold).
• Unbalanced RCA from OPPO’s analogue output to preamp (Harmony Gold).
• Unbalanced RCA from preamp to amp (Harmony Gold).
• Speaker cable – heavy gauge, multi-strand, bi-wired, copper “no-name” cable.

Reference CDs:
• “Phantom Blues” – Taj Mahal.
• “Chaos and Creation in the Backyard” – Paul McCartney.
• “Waiting for Columbus” – Little Feat.

Methodology:
• I evaluated the DAC-1 against the Rotel and the OPPO in separate sessions, i.e. I ran all the tests on the OPPO first and then repeated the tests later on the Rotel.
• I used the volume control on the DAC-1 to ensure that the volume from the transport’s DAC and the DAC-1 were the same. This is a very handy feature of the DAC-1.
• I ran all the tests on my own first. I invited other people in later – individually where possible to eliminate herd mentality. The total review team was 7 adults (including me) and 3 teenagers (with undamaged hearing hopefully).
• The first approach was to listen to 10-20 seconds of music on the transport’s DAC and then switch over to the DAC-1. I repeated this numerous times. Switching was performed using my preamp’s remote control so I didn’t need to move from my listening position.
• The second approach was to get into the listening position, listen to a whole track through the transport’s DAC with eyes closed, visualise the position of all the musicians and what they were playing, and then repeat this with the DAC-1.
• I listened to a couple of DVDs through the OPPO too, but the results were the same as listening to CDs through the OPPO.
• I took a number of breaks to avoid auditory overload.

Results:
• Opinions were remarkably consistent across all 7 adults and 3 teenagers.
• OPPO versus DAC-1: The DAC-1 had slightly more of everything across the audio spectrum. A small increase in bass and sibilance were the most noticeable aspects. “Lifting the veil” is an appropriate description, but it’s a very thin veil.
• Rotel versus DAC-1: A small increase in bass and sibilance were noticeable aspects. In between the bass and sibilance ends of the spectrum there was very little noticeable difference. Most reviewers didn’t know which DAC they were listening to unless they looked at the input knob on the preamp. One adult (who has a recording studio at the back of his house) thought that the vocals on “Phantom Blues” were more front stage on the Rotel. I couldn’t hear this. He preferred the overall sound of the Rotel to that of the DAC-1 and the OPPO.

Conclusion: The DAC-1 does not provide enough improvement to justify the NZ$1,900 price tag (US$1,237) and has therefore gone back to the shop.

Comments:
• If a person can’t hear any difference between two pieces of equipment the two clichés that are usually rolled out by the cognoscenti are “you must have bad ears” or “your equipment isn’t revealing enough”. The first was eliminated by involving a large review team. The second is a possibility, perhaps due to my modest preamp. I’m confident that my B&W speakers, with their Nautilus tweeter and Kevlar mid-range, aren’t the problem.
• I really wanted to hear a big improvement to justify buying the DAC-1, which I had researched for months. I was disappointed that the improvement wasn’t big enough. On the other hand I have now tested my CD and DVD players against one of the best DACs available and they stacked up well. That’s quite reassuring.
• My system is bright and a good DAC doesn’t change that characteristic.
• The results confirm my suspicion that if you want to make a significant improvement to your system then buy better speakers. Other upgrades produce much smaller improvements.
• Whilst I didn’t test the Rotel directly against the OPPO, the comparative testing against the DAC-1 revealed that the SQ of the Rotel is superior to that of the OPPO. I am amazed at the performance of the Rotel RCD-855 which is a 1991 device with a 1-bit Burr Brown DAC.

Addendum:
• The owner of the shop that lent me the DAC-1 believes that I didn’t notice the improvement provided by the DAC-1 because of my interconnects and speaker cables. He has lent me some Nordost products to evaluate this weekend. I am a sceptic in this area of hi-fi (I lean towards what EEs say about cables) but I will keep an open mind and give them a thorough test. This is something I have always wanted to do.

Nigel.

[Karma]

HI Nigel,
Nice review. I must admit that I have never gone to that much trouble primarily because I don't care. I'm satisfied to satisfy myself. If others disagree....well that's OK.

I am interested in having others describe what they hear. I view this mostly as a sociological and vocabulary exercise. It has very little influence on my buying decisions. In fact, I don't want others opinions when I am in the serious testing and auditioning mode. For me it just muddies the water.

Also, I guess I'm not intensely interested to see if I'm fooling myself. That's always a possibility. Within my little world, however, I am very aware of guarding against self-delusion by using carefully controlled tests. In this, I have a lot of experience. Do I succeed? Who knows.

Sparky

[whoaru99]

Addendum:
• The owner of the shop that lent me the DAC-1 believes that I didn’t notice the improvement provided by the DAC-1 because of my interconnects and speaker cables. He has lent me some Nordost products to evaluate this weekend. I am a sceptic in this area of hi-fi (I lean towards what EEs say about cables) but I will keep an open mind and give them a thorough test. This is something I have always wanted to do.

Nigel.

Of course, it's a typical response. He wants to sell you the DAC-1 AND the cables.

If the sound "got better" by a similar proportion adding the cable(s) as it did with the DAC-1, considering the price of DAC-1 + cables, would it be worth it to you then?

[jim777]

Thanks for the great review! I have the oppo and was thinking about a DAC although I'm satisfied with the sound. I guess I'll forget that.

However, I have another source for redbook; the oppo sounds like crap on those.

Forget the cables, keep your money. Cables will make less difference than the DAC1 and won't make the DAC1 worth more.


P.S. did you set the oppo to 192kHz, 96kHz or 48kHz for your analog tests? for the digital tests? THAT can make a difference. Thanks!

[alebonau]

~

Conclusion: The DAC-1 does not provide enough improvement to justify the NZ$1,900 price tag (US$1,237) and has therefore gone back to the shop.

Comments:
• If a person can’t hear any difference between two pieces of equipment the two clichés that are usually rolled out by the cognoscenti are “you must have bad ears” or “your equipment isn’t revealing enough”. The first was eliminated by involving a large review team. The second is a possibility, perhaps due to my modest preamp. I’m confident that my B&W speakers, with their Nautilus tweeter and Kevlar mid-range, aren’t the problem.
• I really wanted to hear a big improvement to justify buying the DAC-1, which I had researched for months. I was disappointed that the improvement wasn’t big enough. On the other hand I have now tested my CD and DVD players against one of the best DACs available and they stacked up well. That’s quite reassuring.
• My system is bright and a good DAC doesn’t change that characteristic.
• The results confirm my suspicion that if you want to make a significant improvement to your system then buy better speakers. Other upgrades produce much smaller improvements.
• Whilst I didn’t test the Rotel directly against the OPPO, the comparative testing against the DAC-1 revealed that the SQ of the Rotel is superior to that of the OPPO. I am amazed at the performance of the Rotel RCD-855 which is a 1991 device with a 1-bit Burr Brown DAC.

Addendum:
• The owner of the shop that lent me the DAC-1 believes that I didn’t notice the improvement provided by the DAC-1 because of my interconnects and speaker cables. He has lent me some Nordost products to evaluate this weekend. I am a sceptic in this area of hi-fi (I lean towards what EEs say about cables) but I will keep an open mind and give them a thorough test. This is something I have always wanted to do.

Nigel.

good on you for home demoing in your system.

If no difference is detected with this in your system it jsut means you need to look else where for improvments and your better off spending yoru money elsewhere. I agree your speakers are capable but I'd be pointing the finger straight at your rotel pre and power amp.

Myself I'd be borrowing and trying a quality more revealing 2ch integrated in the likes of the arcam a90, cambridge audio 840A, musical fidelity A3.5 now do the same source comaprisons again with the benchmark or even with some similar priced CD players from the above brands. I'd be very very suprised if you didnt see a good old step up in performance.

That said its quite likely you might still not perceive the benefit worth the expense of the upgrade. Thats fine and your choice and why important for you to do the comparisons your self as you are to make that judgement call.

[alebonau]

HI NIgel,
Nice review. I must admit that I have never gone to that much trouble primarily because I don't care. I'm satisfied to satisfy myself. If others disagree....well that's OK.

I am interested in having others describe what they hear. I view this mostly as a socialogical and vocabulary exercise. It has very little influence on my buying decisions. In fact, I don't want others opinions when I am in the serious testing and auditioning mode. For me it just muddies the water.

Also, I guess I'm not intensely interested to see if I'm fooling myself. That's always a possibility. Within my little world, however, I am very aware of guarding against self-delusion by using carefully controlled tests. In this, I have a lot of experience. Do I succeed? Who knows.

Sparky

I agree with you completely here sparky. theres no need for anyone to have to justify their decisions or conclusions theyve come to or the process theyve gone to reach that end. All that is needed is to do a comparisons to the extent to satisfy ones self. That is all. You dont need to satisfy anyone else about your decisions or purchases.

You dont need to convince us or anyone else bigburner. Just need to convince yourself !

[whoaru99]

Myself I'd be borrowing and trying a quality more revealing 2ch integrated in the likes of the arcam a90, cambridge audio 840A, musical fidelity A3.5 now do the same source comaprisons again with the benchmark or even with some similar priced CD players from the above brands. I'd be very very suprised if you didnt see a good old step up in performance.

Well, I tried the Benchmark with arguably some very good gear (IMO, at least as good as mentioned) and pretty decent speakers and still came up with similar results.

Differences? Yes. Improvements? Yes. Worth it? No.

That said its quite likely you might still not perceive the benefit worth the expense of the upgrade. Thats fine and your choice and why important for you to do the comparisons your self as you are to make that judgement call.

Agreed. :T

[Spearmint]

What a great write up thanks Nigel.

I would like to add my 2c AUD to this discussion; Don’t take this as criticism of your equipment, far from it, it’s just that your findings are similar to ours when testing different DAC’s and transports using Rotel as the Pre & Power. Changing to alternative brands of pre’s and amps and the differences are more noticeable.

[bigburner]

I am interested in having others describe what they hear. I view this mostly as a sociological and vocabulary exercise. It has very little influence on my buying decisions. In fact, I don't want others opinions when I am in the serious testing and auditioning mode. For me it just muddies the water.

Hi Sparky,

I completely agree. I had really made my mind up before I asked other people for their opinion, except my wife of course whose opinion on my purchases is greatly valued... If I hadn't been a member of this forum I wouldn't have involved other people. It was a good opportunity to find out if anyone heard some of the bizarre things I read in this forum! So it was partly a sociological experiment as you noted. However I accept that my 52 year old ears are probably damaged as a result of my hobby so I was particularly interested in the comments of the three teenagers, all of whom are musical (choir / piano / guitar).

Nigel.

[bigburner]

If the sound "got better" by a similar proportion adding the cable(s) as it did with the DAC-1, considering the price of DAC-1 + cables, would it be worth it to you then?

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!

[bigburner]

[QUOTE=jim777]P.S. did you set the oppo to 192kHz, 96kHz or 48kHz for your analog tests? for the digital tests? THAT can make a difference. [QUOTE]
I set the OPPO to 192KHz for both tests (to test the Pink Floyd DVD "Pulse" primarily) but I never received a clear answer from Oppo Digital about what happens when the OPPO outputs to PCM. One email I received suggested that it down-mixes to 16 bit / 48 KHz, but that doesn't make sense when PCM supports 96KHz. Expert opinion anyone?

[bigburner]

I agree your speakers are capable but I'd be pointing the finger straight at your rotel pre and power amp.

Perhaps Victor could comment on this, or would that get this thread closed down prematurely?

Just joking...

I noticed that my obliging hi-fi shop has some nice Perreaux preamps and amps.

[bigburner]

I would like to add my 2c AUD to this discussion; Don’t take this as criticism of your equipment, far from it, it’s just that your findings are similar to ours when testing different DAC’s and transports using Rotel as the Pre & Power. Changing to alternative brands of pre’s and amps and the differences are more noticeable.

Well Richard, at today's exchange rate that's NZ $0.021857923497267759562841530054645, so I'll keep an open mind on this one. I definitely value your opinion and those of other forum members. Hell, I might even change my mind in a few weeks and buy it.

I watched a music DVD when I got home from work and I found myself wishing I had the DAC-1 plugged in just so I could listen to it again.

It's a funny old hobby.

Nigel.

[whoaru99]

Allegedly still on track for end of October. Got this from AD the other day. It's just a few of the many pages; perhaps you tech-savvy guys might be interested in looking (and commenting).

[Spearmint]

I’ve just ordered a Behringer SRC2496 to see how that performs as a DAC. These units were out of production along with a couple of their other devices, but are all back in stock now.

The ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 is the successor of the renowned SRC2000, and enables you to transfer digital audio signals between devices with different sample rates, formats or interfaces and remove dropouts or jitter from digital media. Simultaneously operable outputs offer splitter functionality. The 24-bit/96 kHz compatible SRC2496 now offers high-quality 24-bit/96 kHz A/D and D/A conversion. The ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 is as such perfectly suitable for studio work. Format conversion between AES/EBU and S/PDIF (coaxial or optical) is provided for, with high-quality signal output with 16-, 20- or 24-bit resolution. Universal sample rate synchronization is done via wordclock or digital input. XLR, RCA and optical outputs are simultaneously operational with separately selectable inputs, turning this unit into a digital patch bay.

I currently have a DEQ2496 hooked up and it works a treat, the only downside is that it doesn’t up sample, although how much benefit you get from this I’m not sure.

[AptosJeff]

Finally heard some External DACs.

I’ve been looking for a cost effective replacement for my dying Kyocera cdp, which I like, and had a chance to listen to the Benchmark DAC-1 and the Lavry DA10 the other day. The idea being to get a low cost cdp and use a good quality DAC. I used some CD’s I’m familiar with and did 2 listening tests in a pro audio store; an A-B comparison of the Benchmark and Lavry, and then A-B comparisons of the two external DACs vs. the internal DAC on my Kyocera. The CD’s were some of my favorites: a Sinatra/Basie swing set from the early 60’s (nice vocals with lots of difficult reeds & brass), a mid 70’s Decca Haydn symph 39 (strings and more strings), and a 5 yr old Archive (DG) Haydn’s Creation (orch, chorus & solo vocals). These were quick impressions, as we did not have time to spend more than 10-15 min on any one combination.

The rest of the system was some pro audio stuff I’m not familiar with – a Tascam cd transport, unknown preamp and some mid-line Dynaudio amp/spkrs. I’ve never heard Dynaudio, so I can’t say how much of what I heard was due to this other equipment. First, comments on the Benchmark vs. Lavry:

1. Both sounded very clear and clean to me, if rather analytical. The Basie brass was too bright for me on both DACs, but I think that is just the recording.
2. Overall balance was close, with no obvious difference in the lows or midrange. The highs did sound different; the Benchmark was more dry, the Lavry more silky. Oddly, I did not immediately prefer one over the other for highs.
3. The most obvious difference to me was that the Lavry had more air around the instruments. It sounded more alive or I might even say tube-like. This could be good or bad, but I like this quality for many CD’s.

Next, comparing the external DACs to my Kyocera by itself:

1. The Benchmark was similar sounding to the Kyocera, but slightly clearer and less congested on complicated material (Creation). Here, I preferred the Benchmark.
2. The Lavry was immediately more spacious sounding than my cdp. I liked it better on both classical pieces, but had no real preference with the Basie, as the brass was overwhelming with either. I wanted to listen again on some known spkrs.
3. Both DACs made the best recorded cd (Creation) sound noticeably better than my cdp.

Since the Lavry did more to improve what I don’t like on many cd’s, I decided to take it home for a 2 week trial period. More to come on this part of the evaluation.

whoaru99, how's your AD project coming? Save me from spending $1000 on a DAC!!

[ThomasW]

Purchased another Benchmark DAC1, this one goes into the family room system.... :T

Am using the balanced outputs to feed the preamp......arty:

[alebonau]

guys I'd suggest again if considering dacs. do consider too some same price standalone cd players. There really are some very nice contenders worth checking out rather than disregarding.

[whoaru99]

whoaru99, how's your AD project coming? Save me from spending $1000 on a DAC!!

Argh....

After getting some personal e-mails from AD not long ago with some tech info and apologizing for yet another delay and saying end of October, the order status now says Dec. 6th. :gah:

Beginning to wonder if it will EVER happen.

I'm going to perservere just because it's not costing me any money (but lots of angst ) to wait.

If you are remotely considering one, I'd place an order now and maybe you'll get it by NEXT christmas. :lol:

[whoaru99]

Purchased another Benchmark DAC1, this one goes into the family room system.... :T

Am using the balanced outputs to feed the preamp......arty:

Thomas, I dont recall; have you tried the Lavry DA-10 DAC?

[AptosJeff]

guys I'd suggest again if considering dacs. do consider too some same price standalone cd players. There really are some very nice contenders worth checking out rather than disregarding.

Yes, good point. I started out listening to cdp's and then looked at DACs after seeing comments on this forum. I got as far as deciding I liked the MF A5 best for <$3000, but still didn't want to spend $2500. So, I am trying external DACs with low cost transports. I have not compared side to side, but I think the Lavry with at least one of my low cost cdp's is not bad. I'd love to hear the AD setup whoru99 you is working on or Victors hypothetical ~$150 cdp for a sanity check, though. Hopefully somebody will review and post those really low cost setups.

Any other opinions on the Lavry? I should have a more thorough review in a few days.

[whoaru99]

Aptos, I actually preferred the sound of a Music Hall CD-25 (~$250-$400 used) to the Benchmark. Unfortunately, the Lavry DA-10 was not shipping at the time I auditioned the Benchmark so I never have tried the Lavry. The plan was to have them both, but Lavry was behind on delivery at the time.

The Music Hall player, IMO, had some of the qualities you describe about the Lavry DAC and if the AD DAC does not make an improvement I like vs the $$, I'm probably going to go with the Music Hall. I'd really like to audition more, but living 150 miles from any decent stereo place really puts a damper on that sort of thing.

[jim777]

They are so dumb. If you were a company considering the AD for a system, I think that you would consider it no more...

Argh....

After getting some personal e-mails from AD not long ago with some tech info and apologizing for yet another delay and saying end of October, the order status now says Dec. 6th. :gah:

Beginning to wonder if it will EVER happen.

I'm going to perservere just because it's not costing me any money (but lots of angst ) to wait.

If you are remotely considering one, I'd place an order now and maybe you'll get it by NEXT christmas. :lol:

[whoaru99]

They are so dumb. If you were a company considering the AD for a system, I think that you would consider it no more...

You are 100% correct. If I were getting this to evaluate for potential business purposes I would have pulled the plug on AD.

Thought about trying to pull that string, but I decided against it because I generally strive to be pretty honest and forthright. I do work for a VERY large globally based company who's name I probably could throw around but my influence within the company (and the company's core business) is not related to this sort of thing.

I sometimes wonder if AD really does not want to make this DAC anymore, but they don't want to be the one to pull the plug so the keep pushing it back in hopes that everyone cancels - then pull the plug relatively unannounced.

EDIT: Oh, and I made a mistake on the delivery date. Not Dec. 6th, it says Dec. 4th....

[ColoKurt]

Well, I just received by Benchmark DAC1 from Audio Advisor last night. My intention is to evaluate it against the DAC in my B&K Ref. 50 preamp, and return it to Audio Advisor with 30 days if I don't hear a significant improvement. I'm using a Mac Mini as an audio server with an optical connection to either the preamp or the DAC1.

My early observations:
1. I like the simplicity and professional look of the DAC1, although it doesn't have an obvious placement on my shelves.
2. The DAC1 does sound sweet; however, the sound from the B&K DAC ain't bad either so it's too early to tell about sonics.
3. What's with the fog-piercing blue LED on the DAC1? It's a distraction and can nearly light up my entire living room with the lights out.

Stay tuned...

[sokoban]

If you're using a Mac for any CD audio purposes, I strongly recommend using Max (http://sbooth.org/Max/) for ripping audio files before playback. Using its cdparanoia based ripper or comparison ripper leads to much higher quality rips than iTunes.

[ColoKurt]

I'm not sure I buy that Sokoban. I believe that the Stereophile guys have done bit by bit comparisons with the source CD's and have found no difference between Apple lossless rips, even transmitted via Airport Express, as compared with the source material.

[sokoban]

Right. They are talking about something totally different than I am, and their bit by bit comparison was between a source uncompressed WAV file and an Apple Lossless file, not a ripped Apple Lossless file and the source CD.

Taken from John Atkinson's March 8, 2005 newsletter(http://www.stereophile.com/images/ne...305stph.html):

"'CD quality'? Yes, the data appearing on the AE's digital output are identical to the data in the original file. While preparing my review, I compared a WAV music file with a duplicate that I had captured on my PC from the Airport Express's S/PDIF output. I used iTunes on my PowerBook, playing a version of the file encoded with Apple Lossless Compression, to feed data to the AE. Despite the lossless encoding, despite the 128-bit encryption I use in my home network, despite the transmission of the packetized data through the air, and despite the circuit in the AE having to reencode the data as an S/PDIF stream, the files were bit-for-bit identical."

Mr. Atkinson seems somewhat surprised to see that a lossless format is indeed lossless, and that is all he is talking about here. He found that a digital transmission of a lossless signal led to no change in the signal. This is to be expected since there is no difference between the resultant audio of a file that is transcoded between lossless formats. That's nice and all, but not really what I'm talking about when I talk about different rippers.

Basically, Redbook kind of sucks. Getting a perfect read of a CD is very difficult. Taking one read of each sector is not sufficient to get a perfect read off a CD. EAC, cdparanoia, and other programs take multiple reads of each sector and compare them until the true read is achieved within a certain level of confidence. iTunes doesn't handle bad sectors well at all (I've seen scratched disks bring iTunes to its knees many times), nor does it do a sufficient number of comparison reads.

The only real problem with Max right now is that the Apple Lossless files it creates have a metadata problem that makes them not play on iPods or Airport Expresses immediately. iTunes can re-encode the Apple lossless files that Max produces which fixes the metadata issues.

[sokoban]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Try playing around with the "Audio MIDI Setup" utility (It's in the Utilities folder) if you are connecting your mac directly to a DAC. You can play around with the clocking (internal or external), sample rate, and word length. The mini is normally configured for 44.1 khz and 16 bits, but you can try out 48khz and 24 bits if you are so inclined. You very well may not notice any difference, but if you play 24bit FLACs or similar high-res files, it sure does sound nice.

[ColoKurt]

Yes, that's the article that I was thinking about. Thanks for the correction. How big an issue is this? Do high end CD players make this sort of correction on the fly?

[Brandon B]

And how dependent is it on your drive? If you are ripping from a really nice plextor CDRW drive, would that help?

BB

[whoaru99]

Well, I just received by Benchmark DAC1 from Audio Advisor last night. My intention is to evaluate it against the DAC in my B&K Ref. 50 preamp, and return it to Audio Advisor with 30 days if I don't hear a significant improvement. I'm using a Mac Mini as an audio server with an optical connection to either the preamp or the DAC1.

My early observations:
1. I like the simplicity and professional look of the DAC1, although it doesn't have an obvious placement on my shelves.
2. The DAC1 does sound sweet; however, the sound from the B&K DAC ain't bad either so it's too early to tell about sonics.
3. What's with the fog-piercing blue LED on the DAC1? It's a distraction and can nearly light up my entire living room with the lights out.

Stay tuned...

Are you going to try some level matched tests and have someone switch between DAC 1 and Ref50 to see if you can reliably differentiate between them? :scratchhead:

[ColoKurt]

Well, I hadn't planned on that, but it's not a bad idea. What I am doing now is running the DAC1 from the Mac Mini, and playing the actual CD in an inexpensive Sony CD player that is connected to the B&K internal DAC. This way I can switch back and forth on the same piece of music. So far, I can't tell much difference but I've really just started listening.

[sokoban]

How big an issue is this?

It's not a huge issue most of the time. CDs are designed to have a certain level of error correction which is designed to mask small errors even though they are not eliminated. Also, CD mechanisms have internal testing and alignment systems to reduce problems from misalignment. The problems are exacerbated by chassis vibrations and scratched discs.

Do high end CD players make this sort of correction on the fly?

CD Players automatically correct for alignment issues somewhat, but not as well for scratched discs or vibrations. Since a CD player is in real time, it doesn't have the luxury of taking multiple reads of a sector really.

One of the best things about using a computer for audio purposes is that you can expand its capabilities with (often free) software. Try different rippers in different configurations and see what you like the best.

And how dependent is it on your drive? If you are ripping from a really nice plextor CDRW drive, would that help?

Yeah, 40X Plextor CD only drives seem to usually be the best. There are a lot of other companies that use lower quality mechanisms for computers. Also, they are the best supported drives by EAC on the Windows side of things. EAC with a Plextor drive is supposedly about as good as it gets on a PC. EAC is designed to take over more fully the onboard error correction in the CD mechanism and uses what's called a "secure" ripper. Max will hopefully add that capability to OS X sometime soon.

[Brandon B]

Well, neither my mini drive nor my plextor would even mount my Brothers in Arms CD last weekend. Had to rip it on my 7 year old G3 power mac and move the files over to the mini to convert with Max. I thought maybe it had some sort of DRM or something on it, but I see no reference to this release ahving anything like that after extensive Google searching, so it must just be one of those funky discs.

Oh, and airtunes is cool.

BB

[bigburner]

When I returned the Benchmark DAC1 to the shop the owner told me that I couldn't hear the improved sound provided by the DAC1 because I was using inferior cables. He kindly lent me some Nordost interconnects and speaker cables.

I finally installed the cables last Sunday afternoon and immediately watched a music DVD that I know well. Yesterday evening I listened to a CD that I know well. Unfortunately if there are any improvements to the SQ they are minor ones. It's difficult to tell given that I cannot do an AB comparison with the old cables and I don't have a photographic memory for sound (that doesn't make sense but you know what I mean). This Friday evening I plan to play half a dozen or so old favourite CDs just to check if any new sounds reveal themselves. On the evidence so far I'd say that keeping these rather expensive cables is looking very unlikely.

I wouldn't dare suggest that all cables of a reasonable quality basically sound the same. That leaves either my wooden ears or an unrevealing system. I don't know which is worse!

[Victor]

. I wouldn't dare suggest that all cables of a reasonable quality basically sound the same. That leaves either my wooden ears or an unrevealing system. I don't know which is worse!

It does not surprise me that you found no improvement when you tried out the Benchmark DAC1. It is a very well designed unit, but relative to other well designed units it will not stand out as far as the sound is concerned.

I would like to make a comment on your experience with Nordost cables. I am not the one to promote cables as means to a better sound, - I know better then that. However, I looked at the Nordost website in order to appreciate their products. I found the following comment in their FAQ section:

Question:
Are the cables directional?

Answer:
Nordost cables are not directional when they are manufactured. However once they have been used for 70 to 80 hours in one direction they will sound better when they are hooked up and used in the original direction of break in.

I must admit that I had to read this a few times to believe it. Well, - to put it mildly the comment above represents a major heresy. I know that I will not be using Nordost cables based on that comment alone. Certainly your opinion of Benchmark DAC1 should not depend on cables used.

Regards,
Victor

[Spearmint]

Bigburner, if you want to do some comparisons with regards to interconnects or cables in general, a simple method is to use one cable for the left channel and another for the right, then feed the system a mono signal, this tends to make any differences noticeable or not.

[r100gs]

It does not surprise me that you found no improvement when you tried out the Benchmark DAC1. It is a very well designed unit, but relative to other well designed units it will not stand out as far as the sound is concerned.

I would like to make a comment on your experience with Nordost cables. I am not the one to promote cables as means to a better sound, - I know better then that. However, I looked at the Nordost website in order to appreciate their products. I found the following comment in their FAQ section:

Question:
Are the cables directional?

Answer:
Nordost cables are not directional when they are manufactured. However once they have been used for 70 to 80 hours in one direction they will sound better when they are hooked up and used in the original direction of break in.

I must admit that I had to read this a few times to believe it. Well, - to put it mildly the comment above represents a major heresy. I know that I will not be using Nordost cables based on that comment alone. Certainly your opinion of Benchmark DAC1 should not depend on cables used.

Regards,
Victor

I laugh when I'm hooking my Xindak interconnects because they have arrows on them. What makes laugh even more is if I have the arrrows going the wrong way, I'll reconnect them the right way, knowing that it does not make a crap. Guess I'm just anal. ops: