New table saw opinions

[oneplustwo]

Hey folks! Thinking about upgrading my table saw. I'm starting to get into furniture building in addition to the amps/speakers/etc. that I've been dabbling in. So I think it's time to upgrade from my dinky Porter Cable table saw.




And getting the 36" version of this:

Image not available

I thought about the contractor version since I want to get it in and out of my shed. But it's actually not much lighter, and surprisingly, it's deeper since the motor hangs out the back instead of underneath. And once you add in the upgrades like cast iron wings, the price isn't all that much different either.

It seems a bit strange to have a full cabinet saw sit outside of my shed and I'm a little worried about rust (beyond just getting the thing in and out) but I think I really want to invest in the saw stop technology and I might as well get the big boy if I'm going to get one.

So... anyone have any thoughts about my rationale? And perhaps more importantly, anyone have any thoughts about keeping it in tip top shape given shed storage and outdoor usage? Is that just stupid?

Thanks!

[JonMarsh]

Really depends on the climate, temperature, and humidity where you care, and if you can do a complete top wrap around cover to minimize exposure to the elements. But having a robust cabinet saw is always a good thing, but be sure the fence is up to snuff.

[wkhanna]

How about you use the new table saw to make a bigger shed? :W

[oneplustwo]

How about you use the new table saw to make a bigger shed? :W

Ha! In retrospect, I would have built a bigger one. I actually did build a bigger one for my father in law after I did mine. But I have what I have now. And frankly, I don't think I would be able to build one big enough to use the saw inside the shed. Just don't have the space in the yard.

But it sounds like as long as I keep the saw surface waxed up, it should be fine. The shed itself is quite weather tight so I'm not too worried. Now just need to figure out a good way to get a 400+ lb saw into the shed. A long ramp might be the easiest way. Just need to make sure the transitions are smooth.

[Steve Manning]

You can always keep a supply of this stuff around as well to help with the corrosion issues http://boeshield.com/order-online/12-oz-aerosol-can/

[Face]

Look into the Festool TS 75. It's flexibile enough that you can easily bring it inside.

[Martyn]

I keep an oil-filled electric heater in my shop during the winter months. It's only on low, but it's enough to keep the damp away from my tools. Well worth a few dollars in operating costs!

[oneplustwo]

Thanks for the tips guys. Another thing I need to do that will be both effective and cheap is clean up my shed and work area. A little organization will go a loooong way given how long I've been deficient in that arena. Perhaps some of my first projects will be to build some basic shelves and storage for all the various tools I've accumulated since building the shed!

[BeerParty]

Now just need to figure out a good way to get a 400+ lb saw into the shed. A long ramp might be the easiest way. Just need to make sure the transitions are smooth.

A suggestion - build a platform in front of the shed door the same height as the shed floor. It only needs to be big enough for you to comfortably use the table saw. That will be safer than ramps because (a) you will not have to go up and down the ramp with a heavy table saw and (b) you will have a flat surface to use the table saw on.

[johngalt47]

I have the model in the pic (at least I think it is the same one). I used it last night for the first time in several months. While cutting a small piece of 3/4" plywood, the safety mechanism activated! The only thing I can think of is that either the wood was too damp (fairly rainy here in Houston lately) or it somehow got in a bind. It happened so fast I didn't really see what happened. I examined the wood and could not see a knot or something that would cause it.
Although it is good to know that it works, I now have the money for a new kit and spend the time installing it. By the way, it is the only table saw I have ever had so I can't compare it to anything else.

[oneplustwo]

A suggestion - build a platform in front of the shed door the same height as the shed floor. It only needs to be big enough for you to comfortably use the table saw. That will be safer than ramps because (a) you will not have to go up and down the ramp with a heavy table saw and (b) you will have a flat surface to use the table saw on.

That's an idea. I thought about having a rolling platform that I could use, but hadn't considered a larger platform. I rejected (for now) the rolling platform because I'd lose 8" of height. The shed floor is 3/4" plywood that sits on a 2x4 frame that sits on 4x4 skids. Being 5'8" means that 8" could be an issue. I also considered a platform for myself, but that seemed like just asking for a tripping accident. I could always build a full deck off my shed.

Ultimately, I think a long ramp is still the best route. Simple. Cheap. Keeps it on the ground. Another thought instead of a ramp is some short 2" thick steps. I could probably lever the front two wheels up and then the other two wheels up. That would make sure that it doesn't get away from me and roll away. But I'm not sure I'll be able to lever that much weight up and down without hurting myself either.

I'm wondering if I should buy the saw stop industrial mobile base:

Image not available

It's more than $300!

Or maybe the integrated base at $200:

Image not available

Probably a worthwhile investment as an aftermarket (or DIY) one wouldn't be as well executed and would still cost a fair amount of cash.

I have the model in the pic (at least I think it is the same one). I used it last night for the first time in several months. While cutting a small piece of 3/4" plywood, the safety mechanism activated! The only thing I can think of is that either the wood was too damp (fairly rainy here in Houston lately) or it somehow got in a bind. It happened so fast I didn't really see what happened. I examined the wood and could not see a knot or something that would cause it.
Although it is good to know that it works, I now have the money for a new kit and spend the time installing it. By the way, it is the only table saw I have ever had so I can't compare it to anything else.

Sorry about the false positive! Better than a false negative I guess. Any chance there was a sliver of something conductive in the plywood? Doesn't take much to trigger it obviously. Is there a moisture level threshold to worry about? I know pressure treated doesn't work. But hadn't heard about how moist the wood could be and still work ok.

[WilZirkle]

John, Maybe there was an ancient hot dog inclusion in the plywood...

[oneplustwo]

I hate when I get hot dog in my plywood!

I thought some more about the mobility of the saw and thought it would be great to having something like the contractor jobsite base for the cabinet version:



The big pneumatic wheels would make any non-smooth parts of the ramp a non issue as well as making movement on the not super flat concrete a breeze. After looking at how they install the integrated mobile base, it turns out there are two places where they mount the base that could serve as places to mount axles that I could add 10" pneumatic tires to. I think that would give enough clearance to roll up a ramp. Also, I could either figure a way to rotate the wheels out of the way to let the saw sit on the ground directly or just deflate the tires a bit to make that happen. Better yet, this would probably cost me about $40 in wheels/threaded rod/hardware as opposed to the $300+ for the industrial mobile base.

So that's my current plan. Harbor Freight has the wheels on sale for $5 each and they have some aluminum ramps on sale for $45 as well so I think I have my solution. It works in my head at least. :O

[benchtester]

I have the model in the pic (at least I think it is the same one). I used it last night for the first time in several months. While cutting a small piece of 3/4" plywood, the safety mechanism activated! The only thing I can think of is that either the wood was too damp (fairly rainy here in Houston lately) or it somehow got in a bind. It happened so fast I didn't really see what happened. I examined the wood and could not see a knot or something that would cause it.
Although it is good to know that it works, I now have the money for a new kit and spend the time installing it. By the way, it is the only table saw I have ever had so I can't compare it to anything else.

They use these at TechShop. In my safety class, they said it had be activated twice in about two years. One was probably damp wood, the other was when the operator forgot there was aluminum foil on the bottom side. :E At TechShop they charge you $200 if you trip the safety mechanism. Still it beats losing a finger.

[johngalt47]

Yeah, it must have been damp wood. We have been getting a lot of rain and Houston is really humid anyway. The wood looked perfectly fine to me. I mean, it was a leftover piece that I had previously cut..

[oneplustwo]

Yeah, it must have been damp wood. We have been getting a lot of rain and Houston is really humid anyway. The wood looked perfectly fine to me. I mean, it was a leftover piece that I had previously cut..

John - I prefer the hotdog conspiracy theory. Either that or some socialist sabotage trying to bring down the perfect system that is capitalism. Or is your real name John Galt? 8O

[johngalt47]

My real name is Henry Reardon. :W

[oneplustwo]

Good to see someone else occasionally reads things other than psycho-acoustic theory and electromechanical system dynamics.

I got most of the saw today. They were out of the 36" fence and rails so I need to go back and get them. I also had them special order the 220V conversion so I knew I had to go back anyway. The 220V conversion is just the contact box plus some rewiring of the motor. I decided to go this route since I happen to have a free 220 drop for an electric clothes dryer that isn't being used and this allows me to use a 100ft extension cord without having to get some crazy heavy gauge wire. Actually, the manual recommends against anything 100ft for the 110V version. Even for 50ft, they recommend 10 AWG wire! And when looking at how much those are, I nearly had a heart attack. I guess copper is expensive these days.

[johngalt47]

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I just noticed you have a 315HF-4 sub. I made the mistake of buying the 8 ohm version which required a 5 cu ft cab! It sounds great though. How do you like yours?

[oneplustwo]

I like it fine. I don't use it all that often but when I do, it does the job well. It's powered with a Dayton Audio 230W sub amp that is fed by the LFE of my receiver. It's not a great receiver but I don't prioritize HT so I'm not super picky about it. Some day... I'd like an infinite baffle sub.

Back on thread, I got the shed cleaned up today and I think I'll be able to get the saw in there without any problem. Might need to do a little rearranging, but no big issues foreseen.

[BeerParty]

Don't forget to post up build pictures! :P

Seriously though, I would like to see what it looks like with your wheel mod.

[oneplustwo]

Laugh all you want, but I probably spent more time than necessary gently wiping off the protective oil from the cast iron wings and applying several coats of Zymol wax last night. Definitely got some table saw pr0n going on. Heavy cast iron... really nicely ground tight tolerance surface...

Harbor Freight parts should be in tomorrow. Also just got off the phone with my saw dealer and the 220V kit (only $40) along with the fence and rails will be here by the end of the week. So I will definitely get some pictures up. Funny how I post this stuff here and not on a woodworking site. I guess you build a certain comfort level with these forums.

[Hank]

+1 on the Boeshield - been using on my table saw top for years. Congrats on your acquisition!

[JonMarsh]

Congratulations!

Looks like you have some GAS!

Gear Acquisition Syndrome! Enjoy your new saw! :T

I'm jealous- I don't have anywhere to put a beast like that... YET! :W

[oneplustwo]

I got some parts from Home Depot today to rig up my DIY base. 4" long 3/8" diameter bolts will go through washer --> wheel bearing --> washer --> saw base --> washer --> and then into a 2x2 wooden "axle". The two things I need to work through are that the bolts are too small for the wheel bearings (wheel bearings are about 5/8" dia) AND slightly too small for the hole in the saw base (by about 1/16") I really just need some appropriately sized spacers. But they don't exactly make those so here's what I'm thinking:

For the wheel bearing, I thought I could buy some 5/8" dowel and drill it out. It's not exactly a high speed/high stress operation so I think that will work ok.

To make up the difference in the saw base, I may just cut out a piece of plastic soda bottle and wrap it around the bolt once or twice. It will be trapped by fender washers and also won't need to put up with too much stress so I'm guessing it will do ok. I think it's worth a shot anyway. At least it's free. And I could always do it differently if I have issues.

Anyone have any other ideas to improve upon mine?

(Note to self: need to buy a lathe.)

[oneplustwo]

New approach for the spacers. First, I found some dried out markers that I cut to length. Then I cut up some fat straws that are used for bubble tea (it's just a straw that's about 5/8" in diameter) to make up the remaining gap.




There isn't too much wiggle room actually. At best, I probably would have gotten a spacer to within maybe 1/32". These are at least that good. Would I prefer a billet aluminum piece milled to 0.001"? Sure... but this was free and I think more than adequate.

Now just need to cut and drill my wooden axles and bolt everything up!

[oneplustwo]

ATV table saw:



Tomorrow, I'll get it on the floor and see how it rolls. Also, I got the 220V contact box so I'll get that installed. Then, it may be time to start putting the wings, rails, and fence together! If I'm lucky, I may be able to actually turn it on soon.

[oneplustwo]

I got the 220V contact box installed. It's exactly the same except the contact switch mechanism and the reset button are rated for higher voltage (and lower amperage interestingly enough.) It's a deal for $40 I think. All the cables and hardware are duplicated and the build quality and materials are top notch. Also rewired the motor for 220V which was very straight forward. Also, I have the 220V dryer cable terminated with a 220V twist lock plug which mates with the corresponding plug I installed on the extension cord which is now terminated on the other end with a special 220V plug that mates with the saw plug. A little confusing, but it works. I'll post a picture later to show the chain.

I also got the saw on the floor. The wheels work ok. But I'm not super happy with it as the weight of the saw as is already creates a bit of sag. And I'm going to be less happy with it once I get the extension wings, rails, and fence installed. I'm not quite sure what the solution is. If I had a lathe, it would be a simple thing of just machining a precision axle. Will have to noodle this one a bit.

[JonMarsh]

That is ONE chunky Monkey of a saw! Very manly, but as you see, not at all easy to "go mobile" with. that's always been a problem for me, and kept me away from buying a more robust saw. I hope you get this figured out to your satisfaction- you're getting close, but maybe still a little more compromise. Wonder if you could take this job for a precision axle to some kind of shop?

[oneplustwo]

It might be ok. I'm going to try to get everything put together in the next few days and we'll see how it is once fully assembled. It will only travel 10 feet back and forth so I guess as long as it can do that reliably for several years, perhaps I don't need to be that picky about it. I've also toyed with the idea of building a little enclosure for it. It can double as a picnic table when not in use. =) Probably just over thinking this though.

[oneplustwo]

Table saw is in the shed!



The ramps worked reasonably well. Except the saw base kinda gets hung up on the ends since the transitions are not entirely smooth. I should be able to fix that with a few scraps cut to size. Still not super happy with the wheels themselves. But I haven't had time to come up with a new solution yet. So for now they'll do.

[Hdale85]

Why not just build a ramp that's permanent?

[oneplustwo]

Why not just build a ramp that's permanent?

I considered that. But what you can't see in the pictures is that my yard basically ends a few feet beyond the ramp (big bush, then fence... yard is 25 feet wide in total). So that doesn't leave enough space to roll it out and have it sit on flat ground and have room for the table extension. I could make the ramp steeper and thus shorter, but I'm not sure I can roll nearly 500 lbs up a steeper ramp.

Another idea is to forego wheels and just put a shaft through the holes with large bearings outboard. Then I could build some rails for the bearings to ride on so that the saw itself would sit on the ground properly instead of on pneumatic wheels. That rail system would have to be pretty beefy and somewhat complex compared to a basic ramp though.

Open to other ideas!

[impala454]

Those ramps you have are backwards. The ends you have on the concrete are meant to go up on a truck tailgate so you can push a four wheeler or whatever up into it. They're built for a much steeper incline (hence the large notches meant to help keep traction on the way up). If you did as Dougie suggests and just built a small ramp (ironically using that wonderful new tablesaw) out of wood, it would not need to be nearly as long and would have a much smoother transition. Just my $0.02.

[oneplustwo]

Those ramps you have are backwards. The ends you have on the concrete are meant to go up on a truck tailgate so you can push a four wheeler or whatever up into it. They're built for a much steeper incline (hence the large notches meant to help keep traction on the way up). If you did as Dougie suggests and just built a small ramp (ironically using that wonderful new tablesaw) out of wood, it would not need to be nearly as long and would have a much smoother transition. Just my $0.02.

Yes, you're right. I had them backwards because the saw bottom got hung up on the other end that doesn't have the rampy things otherwise. I might go ahead and do as has been suggested and build a dedicated shorter ramp. It would be relatively cheap to do so if it doesn't work out, no big deal.

[impala454]

Right, you wouldn't even really have to build much, just a correctly sized sheet of 1/2" plywood and a few well placed 2x4s would probably be plenty just to try it out.

[oneplustwo]

Quick update. Turns out just using some scrap wood under the ramps I bought makes them work pretty well. Also, I bought some 3/8" zinc plated steel rod to act as the new axles. The previous setup was just waiting for a failure. Should have a chance to get them installed this weekend and take a few pics for those who are interested in how this ends. And who knows... maybe I'll even get the blade in and make some cuts!

[JonMarsh]

By all means we'd like to see how it turns out- well, I certainly would like to! And of course some test cuts would be a great idea!

[oneplustwo]

Well, I got the wheels on and the extension wings/table, rails, and everything else. I left the extension table legs off since I wouldn't be able to get it in and out of the shed with them on. I likely won't need them anyway since I don't cut stuff that big and heavy that often.



Getting in and out of the shed works reasonably well. It actually fits with a couple inches to spare:



I would like the tires to be just a hair larger in diameter to provide a little more ground clearance. Maybe an extra inch would be enough. And I'm not super happy with the 3/8" axle either. You can see here that since the cabinet curves on the operator side, I needed to position the wheel more outboard than would be ideal causing much more bending moment on the axle that is probably healthy.



The other side looks pretty good actually.



So more thought needed on whether this is a safe way to go in the long term. I can see that shaft failing half way up the ramps and then I have 450lbs of saw I need to content with. I may just put some plywood across the ramps in which case, a failure just means that it leans over a hair and it's stuck. Another option I've been toying with is just leaving it outside but covering the surface with a big piece of hardboard, draping the rest, and being diligent about rust control (kinda miss my last saw's aluminum table). I could also do a little research and see what the fatigue resistance of zinc plated steel rod is. It's been about 20 years since I went through that in college so my conclusion may not be reliable! Any Mech E's here that can do this in their sleep before I break out my old text books?

[scardeal]

Congrats on having the first stanced table saw.

I agree that the axle is not up to snuff.

[JonMarsh]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/1...75cdca1f_z.jpg

Ouch! Maybe with a new but shorter axle, so there isn't the possibility of such a large bending radius? I'd be going back and looking at an off the shelf solution like you pictured earlier- they have worked well for me.

[oneplustwo]

I'm actually considering just leaving it covered outside now. It's fairly sheltered anyway with the overhanging trees. And with a good layer of regularly applied Boeshield T-9, I'm thinking the surface rust can be kept at bay. I actually have a high quality breathable car cover that I don't use that could be repurposed for this application too.

In the meantime, progress against my first real furniture project:


About half way done. Need to put together the bottom shelf and a bunch of final assembly, sanding, etc.

[JonMarsh]

Loooooking very good! :T Did you do this from plans, or just something you dreamed up? Your wife must love that!

[oneplustwo]

Got it from some DIY wood working site. Pretty simple actually. Just wish I had a dedicated chisel mortiser. But my mini milling machine works ok.

[oneplustwo]

Almost done: