Need Help Choosing a DIY Design

[cncfun]

I am looking to build a new 5.1 system that will be primarily used for movies.

My current setup was built using Blues MTM for towers/center, and Blues TM for surrounds. I have enjoyed them, but I am ready to move on to something else. My budget is around $1000 a pair, preferably less. They will be powered by a Denon AVR X3500 and will need to be 6-8 ohm. Tower placement will be an issue as they will need to be fairly close to the wall and have furniture next to them. I was considering finalists or Statements, but ruled them out due to these issues. I was also looking at ER18MTM with ER15 center, but I don't know what I would use for surrounds. The surrounds will be wall mounted and the center will be on a media cabinet below the tv.

Any design I choose must have a matching center and surrounds if possible. I am not as concerned about bass, as I have a PSA S3601 sub. Whatever I go with should out perform the Blues speakers I have now.

It seems every time I find a design I like it either doesn't have a matching center, uses discontinued parts, or cant be driven with my receiver. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks!

[rick844]

One word. Anthologys. Do a search. I love mine. They are a little more than 1k for the pair, but not terribly.

[cncfun]

Hmmm I don't know how I missed these. Im assuming the finalist center and finalist monitors would be good matches for these.

[1Michael]

Curt C is the designer for both so that should work fine.

[Mikerodrig27]

I love and am thrilled with my Speaker design works kit that I built. I also think that the Anthologies sound like a terrific plan. However, for HT use, they aren't the optimal speakers due to efficiency. If you are okay with roughly 90db sensitivity because you want to use them for music then I say go for it. If your main use is HT and you don't care about bass, check out DIYsoundgroup.com and AVSforum.

Also, check out the Travelers. Those are supposed to be terrific as well. They are priced at around 1000 and give up a woofer for portability. They use the SB acoustics ceramic driver which is a real bargain.

[Mikerodrig27]

Curt C is the designer for both so that should work fine.

I think that Jim takes the lead on the box design and curt takes the lead on the crossover design. They are both terrific designers and great people. Highly recommend any of their designs.

[rick844]

I think that Jim takes the lead on the box design and curt takes the lead on the crossover design. They are both terrific designers and great people. Highly recommend any of their designs.

Agreed. They are also extremely helpful. Jim is on here often so send him a PM if you have specific questions

[rick844]

However, for HT use, they aren't the optimal speakers due to efficiency.

I cant say that i agree. I use mine for about 80 percent home theater. They are fantastic. I am running them with an outlaw 5000 amp, and they are exceptional for both music and home theater. They are HUGE though and do require room from the wall behind them (rear ports for mids) but mine are about 12" from the wall and do well.

I would build them all over again if i had to. Never heard a speaker sound like these and ive listened to many.

[Bear]

I love and am thrilled with my Speaker design works kit that I built. I also think that the Anthologies sound like a terrific plan. However, for HT use, they aren't the optimal speakers due to efficiency. If you are okay with roughly 90db sensitivity because you want to use them for music then I say go for it. If your main use is HT and you don't care about bass, check out DIYsoundgroup.com and AVSforum.

Also, check out the Travelers. Those are supposed to be terrific as well. They are priced at around 1000 and give up a woofer for portability. They use the SB acoustics ceramic driver which is a real bargain.

90dB is at the upper end of sensitivity for most home hifi speakers (85 - 87dB is more typical). That's 110dB with a 100W amp at 1m, and that's dangerously loud for any extended period of time. Since anyone who is thinking about HT is almost surely going to have a subwoofer or two (two is better), then the bottom end is irrelevant. Most 17/18cm woofers can hit 105 - 110 dB at Xmax with a high pass in the 80 - 120 HZ range (aka typical subwoofer crossover points on a typical receiver). In other words, the x.1 and x.2 system descriptions for HT significantly reduces the required performance for the "x" speakers when compared to music-focused systems, all else being equal.

Where "bigger" speakers are required is when the room volume grows such that a typical ~10' (~3m) seating distance increases substantially. Sitting 20' from the sound sources will require more SPL at 1m to achieve a given target SPL at the listening position. For SPL, this is ultimately a function of piston volume (Sd * Xmax). Sensitivity of the system is merely how much power is required to generate the required piston volume. Given how distortion increases for most drivers as the drive level increases, this makes driver choice important generally. A 22cm woofer will have more Sd, but if it has worse distortion than a 17/18cm driver, then the 17/18cm driver may be the better choice. This is also where MTM formats help since 2x15cm drivers will have more piston volume than a single 17/18cm driver:

SB17NBAC: 118cm2 * 0.55cm = 64.9cm3
SB15NBAC (x2): 82cm2 * 0.5cm * 2 = 82cm3
SB23NBAC: 216cm2 * 0.65cm = 140.4cm3

A well-done 6+1 TM will have a relatively smoother polar response than the other two options. A similarly-executed MTM design will sacrifice the vertical polar response (much narrower window) in exchange for good horizontal performance. Since people listen within a relatively narrow vertical window, MTMs are generally a good option for people needing a step up from a TM. Going to an 8" woofer, directivity-matching becomes a much harder challenge. You need a special tweeter (e.g., T34A) or a waveguide to avoid directivity issues in the upper midrange for off-axis listeners.

THX has a notional design standard of 85dB at the listening position with 20dB of headroom. At a more technical level, this would obviously need to be sensitive to the ambient noise floor and room volume (reflections). I aim for 75dB at a listening position about 10' away (~10dB drop vs 1m) as being more pleasurable/desirable. Based upon a desired starting listening position from the loudspeakers, the rest is a math problem that provides are relatively usable set of design parameters. For my needs, a 6+1 at 85dB is enough to do what I need with an 80Hz crossover point and 100W of input power. Your mileage will vary.

[Mikerodrig27]

I cant say that i agree. I use mine for about 80 percent home theater. They are fantastic. I am running them with an outlaw 5000 amp, and they are exceptional for both music and home theater. They are HUGE though and do require room from the wall behind them (rear ports for mids) but mine are about 12" from the wall and do well.

I would build them all over again if i had to. Never heard a speaker sound like these and ive listened to many.

Yes, I was saying that if you were only going to use them for HT use. Then there are much more efficient speakers that can be used with a sub like DIYsoundgroup's offerings. They are also designed for a theater setting, can be close to a wall, off axis is terrific. Really good designs... However, if music is important to you then the Statements can be a great choice.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/

[Mikerodrig27]

...

That was a nice detailed response. I am currently using my Bordeaux speakers with a Firstwatt F6 Clone amp that I built. It gets too loud if I want it to. My seating position is 7' away. It is a wonderful sounding combination. The bass is comparable to my Threshold S/500 that I had been using before. Not as much bass but tighter on the F6 which I wasn't expecting. Hearing damage is supposed to start somewhere at around 87db sustained volume.

[Bear]

That was a nice detailed response. I am currently using my Bordeaux speakers with a Firstwatt F6 Clone amp that I built. It gets too loud if I want it to. My seating position is 7' away. It is a wonderful sounding combination. The bass is comparable to my Threshold S/500 that I had been using before. Not as much bass but tighter on the F6 which I wasn't expecting. Hearing damage is supposed to start somewhere at around 87db sustained volume.

That Nelson Pass guy may know a thing or two. According to the CDC, 85dB for 8 hours is the threshold of damage. At 100dB, it's only 15 minutes total per day. Those THX specs start to look a bit ridiculous if rigorously followed.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/reducenoiseexposure/regsguidance.html

[Mikerodrig27]

A lot of people don't really grasp how loud 85db is...

Really the main reason for HT speakers being capable of so much volume is the volume changes that some of these movies have. You'll be listening to something that is fairly loud then a bomb goes of and the speakers are putting out 110db. It is a pretty crazy experience with the right setup.

[Alaric]

Hearing damage is supposed to start somewhere at around 87db sustained volume.

This^. I wish I had taken that more seriously in my youth. A week from my 59th birthday and I hear metallic crickets, always. I have no way of knowing what it is costing me in musical enjoyment, but it has to affect it. I would trade quite a few of the loud events in my earlier life for no tinnitus now.