The Satori MTA- a two way, but with a checkered past and lots of different DNA

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 16153

    #46

    And here we see some more of that slow but steady progress...

    Another right side wall and top panel going together... ​


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    Next up will be inner and outer back panels- due to the spacing of the panels versus router cuts, , they will not be routed until assembled into the cabinet.
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 16153

      #47
      And in the queue, one more left side wall to glue up, besides the back walls! (right after breakfast- all marked up and ready)

      Then the modified below woofer wall spacers and tweeter side wall spacers will need to be glued to the back of the front panels!


      Dr. Tihanji, who led the Siemens Balanstrasse facility I used to report to (back in the 80's) would definitely be nodding and repeating, "Slow work takes time..."

      Me, why I just find the dramatic tension nearly unbearable! (Hah Hah!)
      I just want to get to mounting drivers and making measurements and a crossover design!
      Maybe even listening to these!


      🤪
      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
      Modula Neo DCC
      Modula MT XE
      Modula Xtreme
      Isiris
      Wavecor Ardent

      SMJ
      Minerva Monitor
      Calliope
      Ardent D

      In Development...
      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
      Obi-Wan
      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
      Modula PWB
      Calliope CC Supreme
      Natalie P Ultra
      Natalie P Supreme
      Janus BP1 Sub


      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment


      • JonMarsh
        JonMarsh commented
        Editing a comment
        103 F on tap today, and no, the garage is not air conditioned, so work early and work fast...do indoor stuff like updating the CAD files in afternoon and evening...
    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 16153

      #48
      Happy Saturday folks!

      When I got up early this morning before sunrise, it was 10 degrees warmer than it has been most of the last month... not a good omen!

      But work was engaged early... and not finished with all tasks for today yet!

      Main step this morning was gluing up the inner back panels to the outer back panels, and making sure everything is aligned "just right"!

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      This involved measurements and some alignment marking, and double checking with a steel rule after the thin coat of epoxy is applied. Alignment lines drawn top and bottom after everything is lined up makes it easier to do when assembled with epoxy...



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      Note, I'm clamping at the ends, checking alignment, then adding maple ply scrap weight to compress in the center, using the table saw top as a stable flat plane.

      I don't doubt the big boys can come up with a better plan, but I'm just the wires and sparks guy....



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      And I find that a key to having this all go "smoothly" is my Festool sander that I resurrected earlier this year!


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      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
      Modula Neo DCC
      Modula MT XE
      Modula Xtreme
      Isiris
      Wavecor Ardent

      SMJ
      Minerva Monitor
      Calliope
      Ardent D

      In Development...
      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
      Obi-Wan
      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
      Modula PWB
      Calliope CC Supreme
      Natalie P Ultra
      Natalie P Supreme
      Janus BP1 Sub


      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment

      • technodanvan
        Super Senior Member
        • Nov 2009
        • 1572

        #49
        Making really good progress Jon. You gonna finish this one?
        - Danny

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 16153

          #50
          Now that's a worthwhile question, considering how many projects have been paused, but not deleted... Kurosawa cabinets and parts are all in storage still...

          A couple of friends of mine agree that I may be neurodivergent in a sense also, but my problem may be Augmented Attention Hyperactive Achievement...

          (that's how I like to think of it- )

          Of course, AAHA! is a lot more funny than so many of the labels being tossed around (psychology is my area of formal education) to ponder than ADHD, for which there are a number of examples in my blood relations, some clinically diagnosed, others highly suspected due to behavioral issues (and ADHD was originally (before about the year 2000) only thought of as a male issue; for women its more AD; which is mainly a problem for them; for boys, HD manifests strongly, and that's a problem for every one around them). Those relative do find my high reading speed, behavior and closure rates very annoying... I have sympathy for them, but knowing what others have accomplished with this handicap, I also have expectations about what is possible with the right therapy. Therein lies the problem.

          ​​​​​​But these attempts at humor I bring up, like comparing elements of this project to a wedding, might be just simple attempts at deflections and efforts to be mildly entertaining- this is partly being driving by a couple of members who have a strong interest in doing what I'd call an M8ta "evolved"; with fairly top of the line drivers (OK, we're not talking PuriFi here, but this is hardly what I'd call a budget two way-).
          ​​​​​​​And the enclosure concept is built on a past developed concept that I liked a lot, (Ardent D) using the same high grade woods and simplified finishing style.

          ​​​​​​​Now, anyone else building this can use this enclosure build just as a suggestion or jumping off point- they could always fall back to the original M8ta builds and variation, using more conventional materials, like cabinet grade MDF, Bamboo ply, conventional ply; go for lower cost, and substitute different fabrication techniques, like the bevel cutting curve I made for my very first Ardent concept build (the one using dual Seas 7" woofers) with a Ryobi BT3100 table saw that had deeper blade cutting capability than normal due to a much smaller arbor diameter.

          ​​​​​​​As always, DIYW can be very freeing, right? But then it involves more personal development and experimentation.


          The thing holding back my pace is the epoxy setting time of the West System components I prefer to use, as well as the Bob Smith slow set epoxy for edge adhesive. Both really need 24 hours for a full cure. But, man, that's a really good joint they provide.

          The high temperatures this summer have just complicated my daily schedule and ability to get diverse things done.

          ​​​​​​​I do expect to be checking fitment for both enclosures tomorrow for the basic complete cabinet, and next glue the positioning pieces on the back of the front wall.

          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 16153

            #51
            Rise and shine! Rise and shine!

            UPS delivered two days early on the PE order for binding post plates and binding posts... sometimes things go better than expected!



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            And the clamps are removed from the back panel assemblies, I think I'm ready to do an overall fitment check right after breakfast!



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            If that clears, then gluing the tweeter and woofer region positioning panels will be next!





            the AudioWorx
            Natalie P
            M8ta
            Modula Neo DCC
            Modula MT XE
            Modula Xtreme
            Isiris
            Wavecor Ardent

            SMJ
            Minerva Monitor
            Calliope
            Ardent D

            In Development...
            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
            Obi-Wan
            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
            Modula PWB
            Calliope CC Supreme
            Natalie P Ultra
            Natalie P Supreme
            Janus BP1 Sub


            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 16153

              #52
              Preliminary fitment checks look OK...



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              Next up today is preparing the front panel alignment plates and marking up for precision alignment when gluing.


              Step by step, inch by inch... slowly I build...



              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 16153

                #53
                Now, spacer panels added to back side of front panel baffles. New footer struts for inside bottom of cabinet fabricated, not yet mounted.


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                the AudioWorx
                Natalie P
                M8ta
                Modula Neo DCC
                Modula MT XE
                Modula Xtreme
                Isiris
                Wavecor Ardent

                SMJ
                Minerva Monitor
                Calliope
                Ardent D

                In Development...
                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                Obi-Wan
                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                Modula PWB
                Calliope CC Supreme
                Natalie P Ultra
                Natalie P Supreme
                Janus BP1 Sub


                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 16153

                  #54
                  Next Up- Side+top combo fitment check, epoxy tomorrow


                  This is probably more detail about building the cabinets than some are interested in, but several folks have commented that this is helpful, and it's also for the couple of guys that are seriously into this, so the details of how to do it THIS WAY are fairly clear, especially for others that may be helping out. These enclosures are intended to be very stiff and non-resonant. The edge board supports will give room for the Bessey clamp heads underneath.

                  Side View


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                  Bottom's up!


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                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment


                  • JonMarsh
                    JonMarsh commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The base side to side internal cross braces are not yet installed, but have been basically fabricated. The drawings will be updated.

                  • JonMarsh
                    JonMarsh commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I will be installing dual binding post assemblies to connect the mid woofer and tweeter to external crossovers. Note that the Woofer space plate can be covered with strips of 3" velcro, and crossovers mounted or removed fairly easily (relatively!) through the removable phenolic base.
                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 16153

                  #55
                  Making the "commitment" - after checking with both sides and back, glue up is started. To assure alignment each step of the way, I'm just adding one piece at a time- and of course cheating a bit on maintaining alignment with the Biscuit jointer. Though the Bob Smith epoxy sets up faster, that still means about 10-12 hours, instead of 20-24, so only one step per day.

                  And my scrap pieces of maple ply come in quite handy, as you can see below, but the same thing can be accomplished for assembly with just some cheap 2x4s.


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                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • letiennam
                    Member
                    • Mar 2016
                    • 68

                    #56
                    Nice detailing on the edges and panels!
                    Coming along very nicely- bonus points on work quality!

                    Comment


                    • JonMarsh
                      JonMarsh commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thank you thank you! Trying to set an example for other interested builders
                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16153

                    #57
                    Today's work was interleaved with breakfast- not the way I usually do things, but I was hungry! And this was glued up and clamped by 9:30 AM!

                    A bit of clean up sanding and some biscuit joinery to aid alignment control:


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                    Followed by a fitment check for the 2nd side...


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                    Everything glued up and clamped- need to work reasonably quickly, as the BSI epoxy "slow set" is a max working time of 30 minutes



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                    And a peak at the additional bottom side to side cross brace glued in:



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                    Next today I'm shopping for some cable hold down clamps (nylon) and will be preparing cable pieces and the back plate connector, plus some damping materials; all will get installed while/before attaching the back (as of this morning's plan!)
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment


                    • JonMarsh
                      JonMarsh commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Tomorrow will probably be a repetition of this work for the other cabinet; I don't have space or working surfaces to work on both at the same time.
                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16153

                    #58
                    Originally posted by letiennam
                    Nice detailing on the edges and panels!
                    Coming along very nicely- bonus points on work quality!
                    Now, Letiennam, you know, in one sense I shouldn't be taking any credit for that- it's basically due to my choice of saw blades and router bits.

                    For example, the Bosch dual bevel sliding miter saw is equipped with a very nice ATB Forest Chopmaster blade.

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                    By "very nice", I mean glass smooth surfaces to the cuts. Literally.

                    The manufacturer's description:
                    • Forrest's blades offer a superior cut that leaves a rip-cut saw edge that is as smooth as if it had been sanded, and a cross-cut edge that is almost mark-free. The blades run very quietly, and backside tearout in plywood is negligible. Each blade is virtually hand-made. The plate is hand-tensioned (up to 15 minutes per blade), superior C-4 carbide teeth are hand-brazed to the plate, and the blade is straightened and restraightened multiple times throughout the process. Think of a Forrest blade as a tool in your shop, not an accessory. Forrest stands behind it's blades by offering a sharpening service that bring blades back to the exact tolerances offered in a new blade. And this same exacting service is available for other manufacturer's blades as well, so they should come back better than new. Forrest Woodworker 1 Saw Blade For Radial and Table Saws. These trim and cross-cut ALL PURPOSE blades give scratch-free POLISHED cuts on wood, RIP or CROSSCUT, up to 2" thick. They have a 30° Alternate Top Bevel with a 5° Face Hook on 10" diameters and smaller.​

                    Josh, the Nampa cop that lives across the street from us brought me some poles that they wanted to use for their shooting range at the Nampa police facility, but they needed to be cut down to size. I guess he's probably only used to seeing the results of cheap hand saws? As he admits, he's not a tool user himself, and not handy. (except with a pistol, I expect... )

                    So he was literally gobsmacked at the surface quality of the cuts I did quickly for him. This was last spring. Then he saw the Saint-Saëns LF cabinets in progress, and his next question was did I used to be a professional cabinet maker?

                    I said, nah, this is just my side with acoustics and speakers- I was a Distinguished Engineer for a German semiconductor manufacturer.


                    "So, you studied engineering in school?"

                    Nah, I'm just an ex gigging rock and roll musician with a psych degree.

                    Have to admit it, I love messing with some folks minds, and you know what they say, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.



                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • JonMarsh
                      Mad Max Moderator
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 16153

                      #59
                      OH, and this was a review of the CHOPMASTER blade on Amazon:
                      • We're rarely speechless around here, but after bringing this blade down through a gorgeous piece of maple, it nearly happened. We knew that Forrest makes some of the best blades on the planet, but we truly weren't prepared for the gorgeous cut we got with this blade. On the back side of plywood, we had zero tearout. When we cut a length of 8/4 oak, it felt like a hot knife through butter, and the result was too good to be believed: smooth as glass, completely free of circle marks of any kind, and it looked like it had been sanded already - cut after cut after cut. You can pick up a miter saw blade for a tenth of this price, of course. It will cut. But it won't cut like this. And it won't last as long as this blade will, not by a long shot. Because it's made of double-hard C-4 carbide, it holds it edge for what seems like forever, and it resharpens beautifully. Forrest spends a good deal of time on each blade, ensuring that it's as straight as can be, and that's part of what you're paying for. If you spent good money on a decent miter saw, you owe it to yourself to put this blade on it. After parting with your money, you will never regret buying this blade. --Kris Jensen-Van Hest​​​​
                      the AudioWorx
                      Natalie P
                      M8ta
                      Modula Neo DCC
                      Modula MT XE
                      Modula Xtreme
                      Isiris
                      Wavecor Ardent

                      SMJ
                      Minerva Monitor
                      Calliope
                      Ardent D

                      In Development...
                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                      Obi-Wan
                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                      Modula PWB
                      Calliope CC Supreme
                      Natalie P Ultra
                      Natalie P Supreme
                      Janus BP1 Sub


                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 16153

                        #60
                        Back to productivity, starting the cabinet glue up for #2...


                        After doing the biscuit joinery, piecing things together and checking that alignment is looking good with our wedding mandated "something blue" is a good idea...



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                        So, mix up the Bob Smith Industries slow set or whatever YOUR favorite is (DIYW), apply to the front panel, then place and clamp the side + top panel assembly:


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                        And if you're in the mood for it (I was), before snugging down the clamps tight, not a bad idea to re-check the angle fitment:


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                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
                        Modula Neo DCC
                        Modula MT XE
                        Modula Xtreme
                        Isiris
                        Wavecor Ardent

                        SMJ
                        Minerva Monitor
                        Calliope
                        Ardent D

                        In Development...
                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                        Obi-Wan
                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
                        Natalie P Ultra
                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • JonMarsh
                          Mad Max Moderator
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 16153

                          #61
                          Now, a possibly important thought to share, if you're more in favor of a traditional build with simpler materials and a veneer skin, thats certainly doable, using the original M8ta examples as a jumping off point, or even the Wavecor Ardent, with some simple adjustments.


                          Here's a reminder, my initial Wavecor Ardent build, front panel width is in the ball park, and here I used Birds Eye maple veneer to good effect:


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                          This of course is more in the classic Avalon Acoustics style. As I mentioned before, one can even cut the bevels in the front panel if your table saw cuts deeper than average, and you can build a simple fixture to position it at 45 degrees, as shown in other posts.

                          And of course you don't need this much enclosure volume, so the front to back depth can be reduced to adjust that- look at how deep this goes in comparison to what I'm working on now.



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                          This pair ended up going to a colleague and close friend, from East Germany; he still lives in the Bay Area with his daughter, but is looking into returning to Germany to work there for Infineon a while longer and then retire somewhere like Ilmenau.


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                          Last edited by JonMarsh; 26 August 2026, 14:20 Wednesday.
                          the AudioWorx
                          Natalie P
                          M8ta
                          Modula Neo DCC
                          Modula MT XE
                          Modula Xtreme
                          Isiris
                          Wavecor Ardent

                          SMJ
                          Minerva Monitor
                          Calliope
                          Ardent D

                          In Development...
                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                          Obi-Wan
                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                          Modula PWB
                          Calliope CC Supreme
                          Natalie P Ultra
                          Natalie P Supreme
                          Janus BP1 Sub


                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 16153

                            #62
                            OK, ok, I'm late posting for what I worked on yesterday, but I've got a good excuse, and it's not that the dog ate my homework. It was Steve, and he didn't eat my homework, but he gave me an extra credit initial research assignment.

                            These lines from his first email about this explains the basics pretty well- nothing confidential or private here!

                            [QUOTE]
                            It's been a minute since I built anything for myself, regardless of the contributing factors for that and I've been getting an itch. No fun just building stuff for others all the time.

                            I had been toying with the idea of repackaging my 1071's, http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jensen.htm. Instead of going with the ported base section, use a SS 26W PR.

                            Of course thoughts progressed and I started pondering a Calliope Supreme design. Use the Calliope mid and tweeter in a sealed upper section and a SS 26W/8861 and SS 26W PR in the lower./QUOTE]

                            Now, you know what a sucker I am for anything vaguely Calliope related- luv dat SB Acoustics MW19P series, and of course luv the Peerless DA25TX-08, the best $500 tweeter you can buy for around or under $75! This current project has a lot of DNA from the Calliope, too!

                            But, assuming that something based on the Calliope was a given for the midrange and highs, then that meant I needed to look into the Low end and see just what we have to work with. Any talk about PR's always perks my ears up...

                            So I started looking into the 26W/8861.. and the first thing that caught my eye was the Qes of 0.33... Bingo! Potential Bessel high pass configuration!

                            Now, Steve, being the practical and frugal sort, was hoping to get by with just a single PR, but the compliance doesn't work out right that way, and if the maths don't math, then ya gotta do what you gotta do. I'll skip through the intermediate details and show you what I came up with:



                            Click image for larger version  Name:	SPL -3 dB 35Hz.png Views:	0 Size:	130.5 KB ID:	961383

                            I suspected going into this that this Scanspeak part was something of a monkey coffin driver, and I wasn't wrong... 75L for a single 10" spills the beans. But what nice beans... solid loading down to a 20Hz Fb and a calculated -3 dB point of 35 Hz.

                            What's not to like? Other than these are not what you call "budget drivers"- but then, by contemporary standards, they're not budget busting, either.

                            We spent almost an hour talking on the phone about this and how to potentially approach crossover solutions, including a further review on my part of Troels efforts.

                            So, that's why my homework is late!
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                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 16153

                              #63
                              Just steady progress here on the assembly work...

                              Of course, need to do a fitment check on the pieces before putting them together...

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Biscuits in place as usual to help with maintaining the alignment during clamp up...

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                              And here we have it glued up, proudly displaying my favorite Bob Smith Industries Epoxy in the foreground...

                              Click image for larger version

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                              And another bit that needed attention to, gluing the intermediate cross braces on to the back panel, using ones made from some scrap 1-1/4" maple ply. Waste not, want not.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              PR rebates and through holes won't get routed until after the backs are glued on. So that should be next up after a bit of sanding on the updated back panels.
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                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 16153

                                #64
                                Up and at 'em early, lots to do this Saturday!


                                This cabinet, after gluing, I needed to tweak the inside dimension just a teensy weensy bit after the assembly, so that the back panel would fit in properly...



                                Click image for larger version

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                                Variable height stands like this come in handy at times for various things.


                                Then, laying in the epoxy and installing the back, with light clamping force, is just another rinse and repeat operation...


                                Click image for larger version

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                                It's probably worth noting that the enclosure is getting fairly heavy at this point; I don't have a scale out here, maybe I can borrow one from in the house later.

                                This 75 year old can pick them up and move to a different table or support, but you want to think about it a little bit and make sure the floor is clear of anything that might trip up your footwork! The removable phenolic base plate shouldn't make any significant weight additions.




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                                Comment

                                • JonMarsh
                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 16153

                                  #65
                                  One more shot I forget this morning that shows how things go with the back side when it's all assembled with good tolerances.

                                  Next step will be a slight follower leveling of side walls to back (if needed), then mark up for the PR locations and doing the rebate and through holes.


                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Backside overview.jpg
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                                  No external event schedule forcing a Long March style pace of work, but I do want to get back to the Saint-Saëns Planar system!


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                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 16153

                                    #66
                                    Sunday Day of Rest? Hah! As if!!

                                    Just as early, but a little quieter... some crossover analysis for Steve, some glue work on one cabinet, and mostly some sanding for the maple baffle edges on the other.

                                    When I'm dealing with hard rock maple, the optimum sanding tools can help, and in this case what I need is some Mirka Abranet 80 grit, and one of my DeWalt random orbital sanders. The thing I like about the Abranet Mirka stuff is how transparent to air it is- you could hold a fresh piece up to your mouth and have no trouble breathing through it, no matter where you kiss it, not even if you're running. And it cuts quite well...


                                    Click image for larger version  Name:	DeWalt sander for 80 grit.jpg Views:	0 Size:	745.0 KB ID:	961423

                                    Good progress made, but you know, I think I'm going to just continue Monday morning. That's what Mondays are for, right?
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                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • JonMarsh
                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 16153

                                      #67
                                      It's been all about sanding and panel fitment routing (trimming to flush). No CNC here, folks, just elbow grease! And Something New, the new fixed base Bosch router.

                                      There are two bits to be used in these steps, a classic 1-1/2" cutting near body follower, and a solid carbide 1/2" tip follower.

                                      Here, getting the more basic one ready, to do detail trim using 3/4" BB ply as an alignment fixture.



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                                      This shows how it's used making a trim cut in the side walls at the base, and by trim, we're talking 1/32 to 1/16", to line things up with the front panel. .


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                                      Of course, one must hold the trim guide firmly in place, and this shows how I do it.


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                                      And here, how it looks after I do a trim pass. Of course, I have very high precision bionic eyeballs and incredibly sensitive fingers checking and calibrating the alignment- we don't need no CNC here!


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                                      And, don't forget, this is the first time building the Satori MTA!
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                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                      Comment

                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16153

                                        #68
                                        You didn't think we were done for today, did you?

                                        Of course, we've got to check all the trim adjustments carefully...

                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	5-Check Trim.jpg Views:	0 Size:	691.3 KB ID:	961440

                                        Oops! Shouldn't have left that top secret view of tweeter cable in the picture!

                                        The problem with this left and right side of the cabinet is that you have to do both sides!

                                        😏


                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	6-Do the other side.jpg Views:	0 Size:	666.0 KB ID:	961441

                                        But once these outside trims on the base are done, we can switch to the solid carbide follower bit for the overhang trim... I prefer the long ones, better stability in motion I find... This is mainly for leveling the side walls on the back with the back panel- may not need anything, may need a teensy bit- flush fits make a better impression on your friends... unless you're really going for the "Idaho Rustic Look", as I usually do.


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                                        So, here's cabinet number 1, ready now for the next major step, which will be routing the rebates and through holes for the RSS210PR going into the back panel, and installing threaded inserts. I know, I know, you're all thinking,

                                        "Be still my beating heart! More routing!!"

                                        Of course, it's more exciting than doing the stuff above to cabinet #2!
                                        the AudioWorx
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                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment


                                        • JonMarsh
                                          JonMarsh commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          If you want excitement, just wait until we get to cutting and drilling the phenolic base plate! Tedium galore!
                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16153

                                        #69
                                        I got a PM asking why I like the maple ply for front panels... well, it's actually pretty easy to explain, other than how I justify the cost to myself. I think we can all agree that for the front panel we want a VERY stiff vibration free "launching surface"- one that won't generated resonant vibrations to combine with the driver signals where their intensity is the highest.

                                        Now, part of my background is becoming a gigging musician at age 14, and continuing that on a pretty regular basis through about 25. During my active years I was about 70% on keyboards, 25% on guitar, and the rest on flute. Technically the last paying gig I played was in 1986, when I was 35- I was doing pick up work on keyboards for some friends that had a band focused more on developing originals, but of course wanted to pick up some bucks now and then, and besides, it was fun!


                                        Now, even early on, I was the weird one; guitarists in the the bands I was playing in all had only one guitar, but from about 1972 on I was often using a couple at least on stage, sometimes three. Because the only reason I was playing guitar was that I picked up the parts for songs that the main guitarist or guitarists didn't want to do or take on- like when I was in high school, my main working band was all guys in their mid 20's or so, and the nominal guitarist didn't want to learn what they called "psychedelic" stuff back then, like Cream, Hendrix, or Yardbirds. So since I liked that music, that was my tasking. But I did develop some bad habits as a result, acquiring guitars suitable for live performance of stuff, and getting more focused on the tonality and sounds available.

                                        For example, for some reason, it usually caused a minor stir when I got out my double neck- they were rare back then. Now, they're everywhere, right? Like this one in my bedroom...



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                                        I have another one, which is slated to be a project guitar with redoing the wiring and pickups, to better facilitate live work. But at this point I've only met one group of guys that are actually playing gigs; DJ's with digital libraries have killed the performance market in a many ways for local bands.

                                        Well, you know what, the neck is a very critical part of a guitar. Over the decades I've accumulated quite a few guitars and basses that I'm fond of... due to specific characteristics; several are what I would call "project guitars", like many years ago "recreating" the "Greeny", Peter Green's '59 Les Paul that had the pickups installed backwards at the factory, and when you had the pickup selector in the center position, and played with the volume on each pickup, the tones were quite a bit different and in some cases rather interesting compared to a standard double pickup Les Paul. As the original pickups are single ended, ground and shield, you can't just reverse the wiring on the pickup, you need to find something like the Seymour Duncan '59 pickup replicas that are built fully balanced for lower noise and like a pro mic, have a plus, minus, and shield. And to get a Lemonburst LP, a rare critter as regards finish, I had to start with a limited edition Slash signature model, and gut the pickups and redo the wiring. (Gibson finally got around to that a couple of years ago, with a special edition model)

                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        This stack is ALSO in the bedroom, and I asked one of my nephews if he would want to take a wager on whether he had more pairs of underpants than I had guitars...


                                        But, to the point, here's the deal...

                                        They don't make guitar necks out of MDF. They don't make guitar necks out of plywood, not even Baltic Birch plywood. But, maple and mahogany are pretty common, and I've never come across mahogany ply sheets. And I know from a theoretical viewpoint it's not as hard or strong as hard rock maple.

                                        So, I rest my case.

                                        ​​​​​​​OK, and the trivia quiz for the day is who wrote one of Santana's first big hits, "Black Magic Woman"? Hmmm?

                                        I haven't come across anyone in casual life who's aware that Peter Green founded Fleetwood Mac, pulling Mick Fleetwood and John McVie out of John Mayall and the Blues Breakers in 1967. But Peter Green wrote "Black Magic Woman", and it was on one of the early Fleetwood Mac albums.





                                        the AudioWorx
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                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment


                                        • JonMarsh
                                          JonMarsh commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          when I said the pickups were installed backwards, I should have been more specific- the magnets in the front pickup were installed backwards, reversing the electrical polarity of the front pickup.
                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16153

                                        #70
                                        OK, today had time to make some progress... in spite of being side tracked by a secret project for Steve...

                                        The last of the cabinet base router milling operations were completed this morning, along with some sanding- things looking reasonably decent. The mid side to side braces for the bottom have been cut, but not mounted yet- tomorrow morning while I'm waiting for some parts to arrive.

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                                        Side panel and back sanding down to 220 grit done also, and it looks like the desired level of fitment accuracy is being achieved, though it may disqualify this build from the "Idaho Rustic Achievement Award".


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                                        Now, I mentioned yesterday the tedium of routing the phenolic base pieces- well, now I'm thinking about cutting and drilling just one phenolic base piece, and using it as a hole drilling template. Might ensure a higher level of consistency...

                                        But that means I will probably use some of my extra 1-1/2" maple ply as base pieces, so I'd better cut one out and get ready to address the layout requirements.

                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	3 Alternative Base Proto.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.19 MB ID:	961455

                                        Clean up sanding first thing tomorrow morning.

                                        What I really want to see before plunging back into Shapr3d and laying out a hole template in the putative phenolic piece is getting a feel for the base feet I've ordered, GAIA 2, and the preferred spacing, which are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. These include threaded adapters for M6, so I'll be in my happy space as regards mounting hardware.


                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	4-Gaia 2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	145.1 KB ID:	961457













                                        the AudioWorx
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                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment


                                        • technodanvan
                                          technodanvan commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          For the record, the aluminum feet I had CNC'd for the Crescendos were more cost effective and a lot more customizable. If you have a decent machinist in town it might be a viable path for you. Of course, then you need to source the rubber - but that is yet one more customizable option as you could test different kinds of rubber and varying hardness levels. Just a thought.

                                        • Scareurpasenger
                                          Scareurpasenger commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          For that industrial look. I wonder if they perform close to purpose built options. https://www.amazon.com/WUEIBUZUDAO

                                        • Steve Manning
                                          Steve Manning commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          If your looking for some nice basic footers, these guys, https://edensoundaudio.com/ are good and reasonably priced. Sven has bought several sets form them.
                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16153

                                        #71
                                        Yesterday was busy on many fronts- one of them being fixing my router jig; the folded metal pin to make a "peg" for 1/8" router centers finally gave up the ghost. I suspected their might be a reasonable chance I could find something useful at our local Ace Hardware, and sure enough they came through, with a drawer of tapered steel pins of just the right length, and one of the exact size I needed. Installed it in the fixture, and just had to tap it down about a quarter of an inch for a nice snug fit.

                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        Works quite nicely, and frankly, it's how it should have been built to begin with.


                                        First tasks was clean up sanding on the prototype base plates.


                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        I wanted to also epoxy in the new concept bottom center brace side to side, but temperatures were a bit low- looks like they'll be OK early tomorrow afternoon.


                                        The GAIA 2's were received yesterday, and they make a strong first impression...

                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        Developing and testing a home made version of these would be a significant time distraction- these are just too convenient, especially with the included custom hardware options for mounting.

                                        And, then too, how would I get these guys to test my home made footers?



                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        So, I prepared a simplified 2D drawing of the outer back panel and locations for center of each PR, and worked from that (larger print!) to do a light pencil layout on the backs.



                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        the AudioWorx
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                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment

                                        • JonMarsh
                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 16153

                                          #72
                                          From there its straight forward- drilling the routing pilot holes...

                                          Click image for larger version  Name:	2 Routing pilot holes.jpg Views:	0 Size:	674.3 KB ID:	961473



                                          Shallow pilot cuts to start the outer rebate support for the PR's...

                                          Click image for larger version  Name:	3 First cuts complete.jpg Views:	0 Size:	672.5 KB ID:	961474



                                          Then deep cuts- here, for the inner through hole; note, setting up the cutting depth steps ahead of time using the plunge depth control. I step through three different depths, in this case the last one leaving a thin 1/4" thickness of panel holding stuff in place, which will be cutout with a saber jig saw, and then cleaned up with follower bearing router.


                                          Click image for larger version  Name:	4 Router close up.jpg Views:	0 Size:	721.9 KB ID:	961475
                                          the AudioWorx
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                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                          Comment

                                          • letiennam
                                            Member
                                            • Mar 2016
                                            • 68

                                            #73
                                            what progress!...looks great everyone

                                            Comment

                                            • JonMarsh
                                              Mad Max Moderator
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 16153

                                              #74
                                              Thanks for the kind words!

                                              One of the things critical to quality of work but slowing down the rate of progress is continuous evaluation and updates of how things will work together in the finished build. So, yesterday, thinking about the footers and the weight of the cabinets AND the several options given by the GAIA 2, for threaded attachment rods, I spent some time researching available options for M8 threaded inserts, and ordered a few to evaluate.

                                              Also, looking at attaching the bases and going for as much overall integrated strength, I decided to add some side to side braces at the very bottom- pictures shortly.

                                              You could liken this to a process of evaluation and iteration during the build and for the design files. I'm still going to make a phenolic sheet bottom panel, but it will now be a fabrication template, not an actual part to the speaker. The Shapr3D files and PDF drawings are being updated on a continual basis, and will be shared once they are what I'd call "stable".


                                              Winnah! Winnah! Just found a distributor in the US with the RAMPA M8 inserts in stock- ordered just now...
                                              It can be a challenge when you're fussy about what parts to use...
                                              the AudioWorx
                                              Natalie P
                                              M8ta
                                              Modula Neo DCC
                                              Modula MT XE
                                              Modula Xtreme
                                              Isiris
                                              Wavecor Ardent

                                              SMJ
                                              Minerva Monitor
                                              Calliope
                                              Ardent D

                                              In Development...
                                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                              Obi-Wan
                                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                              Modula PWB
                                              Calliope CC Supreme
                                              Natalie P Ultra
                                              Natalie P Supreme
                                              Janus BP1 Sub


                                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 16153

                                                #75
                                                Up at 5 today, and the morning is just about gone! Why does slow work take so long?

                                                🙄

                                                well, double checking stuff, re-setting up fixtures, blah blah, it all takes time!


                                                However, do have a little to show for it- should be more later...

                                                I figured a fitment test might be a good idea with all these PR holes I'm making...


                                                Click image for larger version

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                                                And I mentioned a new bottom end cross brace strut as an additional structural aid in mounting the base panel, it's not real without a picture on the internet, right?


                                                Click image for larger version

Name:	Bottom center strut added.jpg
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                                                After lunch, back to the PR center cut-outs, and then center punching locations for the threaded inserts!

                                                And maybe some musing rumination about the mechanical connectivity of the bottom plate to the support feet and to the enclosure- need to layout a phenolic board as a template for the execution on the cabinet and the base plate.

                                                Oh, wait, Sunday day of rest? How about Labor Day of Rest?
                                                the AudioWorx
                                                Natalie P
                                                M8ta
                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                Modula MT XE
                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                Isiris
                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                SMJ
                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                Calliope
                                                Ardent D

                                                In Development...
                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                Obi-Wan
                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                Modula PWB
                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                Comment

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