A New Adventure

[Evil Twin]

rsbonini> as mentioned above, the breakup of the ZA14 makes pulling off the 2nd order slopes tough. In my own testing as I got over 2.5khz LR4 an "edge" began to creep in. Now this was a shootout of woofers, all actively crossed to LR4 acoustic response but no special filtering to accommodate breakups. Because of that I never experimented to see if the issue is solvable (linear distortion) or not (non-linear distortion). That might be something ET wants to check for himself since the breakup is easy to notch on this woofer with a small cap across the first inductor. What I can say is if you cross 2.3khz LR4 or lower, it's the cleanest and most musical of the woofers in that test (SB15NRC, Scan Disco, PEerless Nomex, Dayton RS150P). And it sounded pretty much the same at all volumes until the I finally the bottomed the woofer. Impressive.

This is what I would expect based on the measurements. Considering the dispersion characteristics, crossing higher than your suggestion would also be preferred, and notching break up modes is in my DNA, as one can see from the NatalieP.

[Evil Twin]

Time offset crossovers

rsbonini> as mentioned above, the breakup of the ZA14 makes pulling off the 2nd order slopes tough. In my own testing as I got over 2.5khz LR4 an "edge" began to creep in. Now this was a shootout of woofers, all actively crossed to LR4 acoustic response but no special filtering to accommodate breakups. Because of that I never experimented to see if the issue is solvable (linear distortion) or not (non-linear distortion). That might be something ET wants to check for himself since the breakup is easy to notch on this woofer with a small cap across the first inductor. What I can say is if you cross 2.3khz LR4 or lower, it's the cleanest and most musical of the woofers in that test (SB15NRC, Scan Disco, PEerless Nomex, Dayton RS150P). And it sounded pretty much the same at all volumes until the I finally the bottomed the woofer. Impressive.

ET> what is the acoustic center difference for a given XO for that quasi-LR3?

There is an optimum point, of course, but also some flexibility. The example shown, which is normalized to 1kHz, uses a 50mm offset- this produced the least overall perturbations when tweaked to as reasonably theoretically flat. This can be scaled directly from 1kHz for the chosen crossover frequency.

However, a larger time offset can be used with reasonably similar results, but then the optimization process will resemble "wack a mole" somewhat more, as flattening in one area will produce issues elsewhere. This a schematic assuming a 75mm driver time origin offset.





And the resulting SPL plot.





Now, Hawksford and others have published papers, some in the relatively distant past, about asymmetric crossovers, some using time offsets, most not. This can be thought provoking to research, and has resulted in an experimental concept for a couple of the recently proposed high efficiency/very low distortion design concepts.

An example for an 1800 Hz crossover is shown here....





The result, while not to as tight a tolerance as many might desire, enables high performance with certain physical classes and combinations of drivers...





And has some very interesting characteristics... most interesting...

[augerpro]

Just got a quote for $38 for the SLS. It's 100um, rather than 25um, but it's worth an experiment.

and yet again: thanks for the hard work pulling those together!

FWIW I'm pretty sure DanP was printing my guides at 100um. You can see the layering along wall, but fine detail is still really good.

[Bear]

Bear> someone just pinged me the other day that 3Dhubs quoted $42 for my waveguide with the SLS nylon process. Did you check that? Far superior to resin IMO.

ET> good to see the ZA14 considered. I was going to recommend it but the Dueland filter wouldn't really work with it, so I didn't mention it. As you can see though, the performance is so good it is hard to pass up because of 2nd order design constraints. I'd like to pair it with the SB21 on my waveguide in a high performance mini-monitor.

Just got a quote for $38 for the SLS. It's 100um, rather than 25um, but it's worth an experiment.

and yet again: thanks for the hard work pulling those together!

[Steve Manning]

-while I like the Tidal/Vimberg look, it makes the baffle even more complex (excepting the top angle) - which is probably a step in the wrong direction as far moving into a budget/builder-friendly build. ops:

Hey Scott .... What we were looking at by reducing the budget for the drivers, by a considerable amount if all goes well, is allow folks some extra cash to put into the cabinet, or not if you don't want to. If you like the Vimberg look and don't have the desire to do it yourself, sub it out ..... I might know someone by the way. :W The design is also being looked at for the SMJ Audio TTC kits. Of course, as already mentioned, you have the good old tried and true, rectangular box. In other words it gives you more options.

[augerpro]

rsbonini> as mentioned above, the breakup of the ZA14 makes pulling off the 2nd order slopes tough. In my own testing as I got over 2.5khz LR4 an "edge" began to creep in. Now this was a shootout of woofers, all actively crossed to LR4 acoustic response but no special filtering to accommodate breakups. Because of that I never experimented to see if the issue is solvable (linear distortion) or not (non-linear distortion). That might be something ET wants to check for himself since the breakup is easy to notch on this woofer with a small cap across the first inductor. What I can say is if you cross 2.3khz LR4 or lower, it's the cleanest and most musical of the woofers in that test (SB15NRC, Scan Disco, PEerless Nomex, Dayton RS150P). And it sounded pretty much the same at all volumes until the I finally the bottomed the woofer. Impressive.

ET> what is the acoustic center difference for a given XO for that quasi-LR3?

[Evil Twin]

3rd order crossover -6 dB at transition

And a refresher regarding that crossover concept....
















This is the basis for the transfer function of the Modula MT, Natalie P, and the HF crossover of the Isiris and the Wavecor Ardent.

[Evil Twin]

Your lack of faith is disturbing...

There are two sides to this issue....


What combination of tools is the minimum to accomplish the full design intent?



What impact would a simple tower cabinet have on the results, apart from esthetics? (And one should not discount esthetics considering the many decisions in life most people make based largely on that...)


Consider a recent, similar but more challenging project, currently in storage in the outer rim pending a "peace" negotiation with my primary employer (warning: never negotiate with a Sith).









Consider that it was built using a contractor table saw and a hand held circular saw... here you see when the facet detailing was implemented...





As a nomad on the run from the insurgent rebellion, I have very limited tooling resources and space compared with skilled practitioners on the board such as Steve Manning and Renron.... they will tell you that my feeble misguided efforts at woodworking are for the most parts clumsy hacks, and I could hardly disagree with them, much as pride might urge me to do so...


Still, I would argue that the results in the end speak for themselves...




I also promote the concept that a budget BOM does not mean a budget effort... sweat equity is the foundation of DIY.



But on to the other consideration- how much impact would the simpler front panel approach have?

The narrowing of the baffle width will alter the baffle step frequency for the tweeter, there is minimal impact on the midrange driver. But this occurs in a frequency range well outside the operating point of any of the Ardent tweeter crossover concepts, whether the original Duelund or the quasi LR3 concept of the Wavecor Ardent.

A completely conventional tower construction is feasible, but then, I think I can safely say that the effort loses some of the charm and first look impression...

That is up to potential builders to decide upon.

Do note that the tilted back cabinet front does have some other benefits for a system of this height- the midrange to tweeter and woofer integration has a limited vertical window, though broad with the LR3 crossover concept, and aiming it slightly upwards means there are more reverberant reflections from the ceiling, contributing to a slightly more uniform power response. Also, it means that at the listening position seated, one is near the bottom of the integration window, and standing up, one is more likely to still be within the upper limits of that window at any reasonable listening distance.

A reminder, I use the term LR3 only as a way to indicate a 3rd order crossover that is -6dB at the transition frequency for both drivers. There is no such Linkwitz-Riley alignment, of course, and in fact, using conventional measures and evaluation of crossover design, assuming the drivers have acoustic origins at the same distance, it won't work. The NatP and Wavecor Ardent crossovers use the time offset of the midrange and woofer drivers as an integral element of the crossover design, and the design must be matched to the drivers and wavelength distances.

[dwk]

Forgive my ignorance, but what about the ZA14 precludes it from being used in a Dueland configuration?

The break-up mode occurs low enough that matching the Dueland transfer function becomes difficult - the break-up becomes somewhat 'in band'. You really need very extended bandwidth to pull off the Dueland topology.

[dwk]

So are there really 3 systems in flight here? The 'thrifty' non-Dueland Anarchy/ZA15/DA25 model, the Dueland Anarchy/???/DA25 model and the potential upgrade to the Dueland model using the Accutons? Things move fast at DFAL and it's hard to keep up.

I took some time modeling the Anarchy drivers, and they really are pretty remarkable. Compared to the RSS210HF-4 I'd been considering, dual ported Anarchy gives you significantly more output than 2 sealed Daytons in the same volume (though that's pretty obvious), but surprisingly hangs very well even if you put the Daytons in 3-4 cu ft ported - the Dayton advantages are basically under 30Hz which is of less concern in a music-oriented system. Even if you put it in a conventional cabinet, the 'thrifty' model looks rather promising indeed. Definitely curious as to the mid choice for the Dueland model though, if the rest of the components stay the same - I have been intrigued by the concept since it appeared here (in the Neo-D CC, wasn't it?).

[rsbonini]

Bear> ET>... good to see the ZA14 considered. I was going to recommend it but the Dueland filter wouldn't really work with it, so I didn't mention it. As you can see though, the performance is so good it is hard to pass up because of 2nd order design constraints.

It appears that the most likely driver complement for the value oriented version will use the Zaph ZA14...

... results are very interesting for the ZA14. a system using the ZA14 is only feasible with the WA style crossover.

Forgive my ignorance, but what about the ZA14 precludes it from being used in a Dueland configuration?

[augerpro]

Bear> someone just pinged me the other day that 3Dhubs quoted $42 for my waveguide with the SLS nylon process. Did you check that? Far superior to resin IMO.

ET> good to see the ZA14 considered. I was going to recommend it but the Dueland filter wouldn't really work with it, so I didn't mention it. As you can see though, the performance is so good it is hard to pass up because of 2nd order design constraints. I'd like to pair it with the SB21 on my waveguide in a high performance mini-monitor.

[Scottg]

-while I like the Tidal/Vimberg look, it makes the baffle even more complex (excepting the top angle) - which is probably a step in the wrong direction as far moving into a budget/builder-friendly build. ops:

[Scottg]

..in principle, there is no reason that a conventional tower cabinet cannot be used..


Perhaps "Thrifty man's Ardent" is more accurate...

A basic tower just wouldn't hold the same appeal. ops:


Ardent definition: very enthusiastic.

Ardent synonym: Avid.

Avid definition: enthusiastic.

Budget oriented Ardent = Avid?

[Evil Twin]

More than one way to capture a Mandalorian...

Idea:

Say Jon changes the Ardent or its "poor-man's/rebel-scum" iteration to a fairly simple "stepped" baffle without the angular baffle edge cuts: something that could be done with a straight bit on a router alone (and perhaps a few dimensional cuts for the stacked baffle at the hardware store).

Then an enterprising individual comes along and offers the added angular baffle edition that slot's-in nicely to that stepped baffle. To improve on material efficiency: (lowering part costs and shipping costs) make it in 4 pieces (instead of 2: top and bottom) - basically "book-matched sides" for both the top and the bottom of the baffle.

(..perhaps use the CNC for optimum cut-path for multiple pieces on a single stacked board, then push the pieces through the table saw for the angles.)

It should be understood that the crossover design used in the Wavecor Ardent is the same 3rd order alignment with the transition point at -6dB which actually requires a reward time offset of the lower frequency driver as used in the NatlieP and Isiris. In the Ardent style cabinet an upward directed launch is created, which makes up for it's diminutive stature compared with the Irsis.

in principle, there is no reason that a conventional tower cabinet cannot be used, though the launch pattern will change, and the midrange slightly more subjected to floor bounce.

The droids have been bushy at DFAL, and driver tests have proceeded as well as construction of test cabinets and some new system concept modeling...


It appears that the most likely driver complement for the value oriented version will use the Zaph ZA14, based on current test results; one more round of testing is planned over a more rigorous series of conditions in the near future.

Higher resolution tests are planned for both polar behavior and distortion at a number of output levels, but results are very interesting for the ZA14. a system using the ZA14 is only feasible with the WA style crossover.









This results from tests previously run at DFAL with older tools are quite encouraging, and considered together with the performance of the DA25, obviate the need for a moniker such as "poor man's Ardent"- replete as it is with negative connotations about the ultimate performance. Perhaps "Thrifty man's Ardent" is more accurate...


The Duelund concept is still being pursued, but this appears to require more focus on the driver selection, and a very limited number of possible candidates- and most likely abandoning considerations of cost/performance, and only looking at performance. Driver testing should commence next week.


Last, a cabinet concept is proposed which owes inspiration both to the Ardent origins and the Vimberg product line from Tidal Audio. A complete CAD 3D model has been prepared and is being detailed for a test build... this may be limited at first to the Duelund effort.

Note that the angle of the cabinet front and rear to the top and bottom remains the same as the original Ardent and the Wavecor Ardent, but like the Vimberg's, the back of the base is tilted up about 1/2 of that angle, to allow rear passage of the port wave, and to create a more nearly vertical front panel.

Of course, this concept could have room to grow, too, if using drivers like the AS168-9-470, as though the current test build is looking at just two woofers per side, there is no obstacle (other than cost) to expanding this to three woofers per side, with an appropriately lengthened cabinet. But it should be noted that planning for this is attempting to NOT increase the driver BOM compared hugely with the Wavecor Ardent, which limits matters to just two AS168 per side.





However, test cabinet components for a more conventional build are also well along in fabrication, and should allow some evaluations within a week or two at the outside.

[Steve Manning]

Idea:

Say Jon changes the Ardent or its "poor-man's/rebel-scum" iteration to a fairly simple "stepped" baffle without the angular baffle edge cuts: something that could be done with a straight bit on a router alone (and perhaps a few dimensional cuts for the stacked baffle at the hardware store).

Then an enterprising individual comes along and offers the added angular baffle edition that slot's-in nicely to that stepped baffle. To improve on material efficiency: (lowering part costs and shipping costs) make it in 4 pieces (instead of 2: top and bottom) - basically "book-matched sides" for both the top and the bottom of the baffle.

(..perhaps use the CNC for optimum cut-path for multiple pieces on a single stacked board, then push the pieces through the table saw for the angles.)

Good ideas .... matches some stuff we're already looking at.

[Steve Manning]

One might also look at using Brandon's Waveguide for the SB26ADC to help with dispersion and aligning acoustic centers. However, 3DHubs seems to be getting persnickety about sizes and part orientation when getting a quote for a 25um resin print. I'm not a fan of the 100um PETG prints.

EDIT: Apparently a different day yields a different result. The 5" nominal waveguides are passing the 3DHubs manufacturing check, but they are still pricing-out above $100/each with resin. I paid ~$60 for ones I had printed a little less than a year ago.

Without seeing the waveguides, $100 each does not sound crazy. I ran across this site the other day, https://josephcrowe.com/.. Nice looking stuff and makes that $100 look rather cheap!

[Steve Manning]

Thanks, Steve! I didn't expect there to be any discernible diffraction issues, but I had to ask. What are the dimensions on the small and medium frames, if you can disclose?

Hey Bear,

I can disclose ...... The small version has an outside size of 12" X 18" with a baffle width of ~8.5". It can accommodate up to a 7.5" driver. The mid size rib is 16" X 24" with an 11.3" baffle width handling up to 10" drivers. For larger than 10" drivers the back of the ribs take on a flat area to accommodate the required baffle width.

Steve

[Bear]

Many thanks Master ET .... I aim to please.

As to the sound .... only a short listening session yesterday. With them pretty much just plopped in the middle of the room and ~3' from my chair a fair assessment will come once they are located where they need to be. In other words I didn't have the energy to lug all these heavy cabinets around at the end of the day. :W

Initial impressions though, is that Jon has done his usual magic with the design choices. Very clean and detailed, as Jon has stated this tweeter punches way out of it's price range.

Diffraction issues were considered ..... edges are rounded over as well as foam strips are inserted vertically along the edges of the baffle to help with that. In an ideal world this would of course be measured, but test equipment needed for that are not in my arsenal of tools. This is a similar issue with the Ardent's. They are supposed to have a bunch of felt glued to the front baffle to alleviate diffraction at the edges of the facets. Take a look at how many folks have actually done that with their builds .... not many, but they still sound pretty amazing!

Thanks, Steve! I didn't expect there to be any discernible diffraction issues, but I had to ask. What are the dimensions on the small and medium frames, if you can disclose?

[Bear]

Idea:

Say Jon changes the Ardent or its "poor-man's/rebel-scum" iteration to a fairly simple "stepped" baffle without the angular baffle edge cuts: something that could be done with a straight bit on a router alone (and perhaps a few dimensional cuts for the stacked baffle at the hardware store).

Then an enterprising individual comes along and offers the added angular baffle edition that slot's-in nicely to that stepped baffle. To improve on material efficiency: (lowering part costs and shipping costs) make it in 4 pieces (instead of 2: top and bottom) - basically "book-matched sides" for both the top and the bottom of the baffle.

(..perhaps use the CNC for optimum cut-path for multiple pieces on a single stacked board, then push the pieces through the table saw for the angles.)

One might also look at using Brandon's Waveguide for the SB26ADC to help with dispersion and aligning acoustic centers. However, 3DHubs seems to be getting persnickety about sizes and part orientation when getting a quote for a 25um resin print. I'm not a fan of the 100um PETG prints.

EDIT: Apparently a different day yields a different result. The 5" nominal waveguides are passing the 3DHubs manufacturing check, but they are still pricing-out above $100/each with resin. I paid ~$60 for ones I had printed a little less than a year ago.

[Scottg]

Idea:

Say Jon changes the Ardent or its "poor-man's/rebel-scum" iteration to a fairly simple "stepped" baffle without the angular baffle edge cuts: something that could be done with a straight bit on a router alone (and perhaps a few dimensional cuts for the stacked baffle at the hardware store).

Then an enterprising individual comes along and offers the added angular baffle edition that slot's-in nicely to that stepped baffle. To improve on material efficiency: (lowering part costs and shipping costs) make it in 4 pieces (instead of 2: top and bottom) - basically "book-matched sides" for both the top and the bottom of the baffle.

(..perhaps use the CNC for optimum cut-path for multiple pieces on a single stacked board, then push the pieces through the table saw for the angles.)

[Steve Manning]

CTC distance on the final cabinet is 7.688"

[Evil Twin]

The crossover is at 1800Hz, and the CTC is lower than past similar designs or the first test cabinet setup. The test cabinets had a combined CTC of 11", but at a listening distance of just 5 feet, the subjective response did not alter significantly between sitting and standing. This is not to say that hard data would not be useful, but it was not deemed worthwhile to measure with the original test setup, as the final CTC is much lower.

[Zvu]

How does it behave in vertical plane given rather large distance of acoustic centers at Y axis ?

If the crossover point is low enough it might not present any audible problems but still...

[Evil Twin]

Technical measurements of the unported test cabinet

For those interesting in technical performance, these two graphs were taken from the development test cabinets which were not ported, but also located well out into the room to minimize boundary effects.

While one always wishes to to provide a well optimized design, as with armed conflict, the enemy will have a say also; in the case of your listening room, it's the room acoustics and the speaker positioning that can be just as critical as the original design. One might review the measured in room performance of many of Troel's designs- some exhibit quite a bit of room interaction in most unfortunate ways... but that is more likely due to room size and positioning than the intrinsic quality of the design.


Polar reponse 0 - 30 degrees



On axis response with HD2 and HD3 distortion



Cardas placement will usually produce the most optimum results, but may not be feasible for some due to space limitations and existing furnishings.

[Steve Manning]

Many thanks Master ET .... I aim to please.

As to the sound .... only a short listening session yesterday. With them pretty much just plopped in the middle of the room and ~3' from my chair a fair assessment will come once they are located where they need to be. In other words I didn't have the energy to lug all these heavy cabinets around at the end of the day. :W

Initial impressions though, is that Jon has done his usual magic with the design choices. Very clean and detailed, as Jon has stated this tweeter punches way out of it's price range.

Diffraction issues were considered ..... edges are rounded over as well as foam strips are inserted vertically along the edges of the baffle to help with that. In an ideal world this would of course be measured, but test equipment needed for that are not in my arsenal of tools. This is a similar issue with the Ardent's. They are supposed to have a bunch of felt glued to the front baffle to alleviate diffraction at the edges of the facets. Take a look at how many folks have actually done that with their builds .... not many, but they still sound pretty amazing!

[Bear]

Looks great! I would have expected the ribs protruding beyond the face plane of the baffle would have created diffraction issues. I'll acknowledge immediately that you guys know what you were doing so did you not think that it would happen, or was it a risk that didn't materialize, or somewhere in between?

[Evil Twin]

Feet finished and in place ....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29739[/ATTACH]

A few shots of the finished speakers playing away.



[ATTACH=CONFIG]29740[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29741[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29742[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29743[/ATTACH]

Very impressive- a strong combination of technology and craftsmanship.

[carlthess40]

How’s the sound ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve Manning]

Feet finished and in place ....



A few shots of the finished speakers playing away.

[Steve Manning]

Since it's been a while due to working on a few other projects, I figured it was time for an update.

With all the parts finished I installed some dampening material to most of the ribs.



I also had spent a fair bit of time finding a good solution for sealing the ribs and spacers. This material ended up under the third times a charm category since I was not happy with my first two choices.



Installing the xovers that Jon sent out and working on final assembly.





After much searching and not wanting to pay the crazy prices, I opted to make the feet for between the cabinets and stands since they need to be a specific height.

[Evil Twin]

I understand full well what the “being slammed at work” means, having had this difficultly nearly all year.

And to think I thought it might be passing, but new additional tasks have appeared with deadlines of a couple of months...

May the Force be with you...

[Horio]

Progress is slow with the Ardents thanks to being slammed at work. Hoping to have some time to work on the speakers during the holidays. Basically ready to glue your excellent baffles to the cabinet rears, and the laminate the 1/8 inch hardboard all around.

I may have something you could help with using your new fancy CNC. I'll send you a PM to see what you think.

Greg

[Steve Manning]

Steve! I've been MIA from the boards for the past few months, and in the meantime you've been busy!

First of all, no more drooling over my festool toys. I'm the one doing the drooling over your Sawstop and CNCRouterParts router..

I'll definitely be following the development of your business closely, and will certainly be buying/commissioning some things too!

-Greg

Greg, I'm always drooling over Festool toys. Though I am enjoying the new upgrades.

Just let me know what I can help you with. By the way, any progress on those Ardents?

Steve

[Horio]

Steve! I've been MIA from the boards for the past few months, and in the meantime you've been busy!

First of all, no more drooling over my festool toys. I'm the one doing the drooling over your Sawstop and CNCRouterParts router..

I'll definitely be following the development of your business closely, and will certainly be buying/commissioning some things too!

-Greg

[Evil Twin]

A bit of an update ...... I found some folding racks for the spray area that has allowed me to triple my thru put. All the parts are sprayed and some assembly is underway.

Speaker parts curing in the a/c ....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29685[/ATTACH]

First stand under goes assembly.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29686[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29687[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29688[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29689[/ATTACH]

Interesting... most interesting!

Those stands would look right at home in the Storm Trooper's commandant's suite...

[ergo]

Very nice looking stuff. From pictures the surface finish looks fully "production quality" and I'm sure it is too. Lucky customers who gets these

[Steve Manning]

A bit of an update ...... I found some folding racks for the spray area that has allowed me to triple my thru put. All the parts are sprayed and some assembly is underway.

Speaker parts curing in the a/c ....



First stand under goes assembly.

[morbo]

I am not surprised at all that you notice this. I went through both a measurements and listening evaluation of quite a few tweeters in the $200-$400 range and keep coming back to the DA25, with all it's quirks- sonically, it's very good, and measures quite well, too, as you can see. I can speculate as to why- I suspect the unusual rear chamber design, flattish dome, and the absolutely flat front panel with minimal diffraction effects all play their roles.

I'm sure you're right, and as I say I was very happy to see your results; I'm just not experienced enough with either high end commercial offerings or diy to fully trust my ears. The value proposition is really something else; at the price they're quite special.

... If you PM me, I can email you some of the measurement results with different waveguide experiments.

Will do, thanks!

You should be able to get good results with the NE149W; I've measured a few of the NE series in the past, but never had time to do anything with them... I suspect they're in storage in Idaho right now, though they could still be in Livermore!

But if you haven't already bought your NE149W's, take a close look at the similar Satori parts. A bit newer designs by basically the same people. Seem to be better behaved cones, less issues to deal with.

I do already have the ne149 - I spent a lot of time considering this and I wanted something that on paper would be a clear step up from the wr125, and if possible at least as good through the midband as the zaph's za14 which I also have experience with; those drivers really impressed me in the mids! I did consider the smaller satori midwoofers as well, but here the cost was close to 2x higher as the ne149 was on sale, and I couldn't justify the extra cost. Your recommendation has me second guessing that a little, but I really think I need to start using drivers faster than I buy them at this point, it's getting a little out of hand I'm hoping the NE149 will live up to its reputation from the statements series; and that any additional XO complexity it requires will be fairly easy to deal with in DSP.

BTW, I do like the new Hypex plate amps, though I haven't had a chance to check them out. I have one of the Accuton DSP board sets, and would be more interested in that if I wasn't such a DAC tweak head (TotalDAC and Denafrips Terminator- new DSP board for the latter should hit the dock on the 5th!)

I'm glad you approve! I did have a little buyers remorse briefly when I found out they wouldn't handle FIR crossovers, which I had been interested in trying. But they still seem like the best implementation of active XO and amplification I can find without ballooning the complexity or cost.. I want these to be standalone, plug and play speakers (once finalized).

As far as DAC tweaking; in all honesty I'm not sure my current setup is resolving enough for me to notice the differences. But definitely something I will look into, I've been eyeing the dac reviews and leaderboard over at audiosciencereview (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...nts-png.30050/) and the best performing one I have here is the Topping d30; which sounds great but I'm not sure that different from the DACs in my Nad receiver. Definitely something to explore further down the line, I'll be sure to pick your brain when the time comes.

[morbo]

Hi Morbo,

As to the mechanical side of things, our intent, assuming we can determine a profile suitable for this tweeter, or others, is to provide waveguides that are available to purchase. It could be stand alone or machined into a baffle directly .... though most of our efforts are working with stand alone waveguides for testing at this point. Rather than having the typical plastic versions that one sees these days, we're looking at different hardwoods, lbl, etc ...... something more pleasing to the eye than the standard fare.

Jon can speak more to the acoustic side of things, since he is the master in that department.

Thanks Steve, I will certainly be awaiting your waveguides with bated breath! I think this tweeter in a waveguide would open up all sorts of interesting possibilities..

[CADman_ks]

Figured I'd show a few pictures of the last area of upgrades to the shop, where I do any finish application. I replaced the hanging tarp setup with a track system and some heavy duty clear curtains. For the most part I can leave everything in place, close the curtains and get to work.

Here are some pictures of the cabinet parts getting a coat of primer ....



Of course it became apparent that I now need build a drying rack for parts .... it never ends.

This is a VERY cool way of doing this. I made myself one of these once as well to spray lacquer. I was able to drop my garage door, and then I had a HUGE attic fan that pulled air from the top of my shop down, and out the door. Really worked pretty well.

Here's a link to the setup I used:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?39687-My-Ochocinco-MTM-build&p=556956&viewfull=1#post556956

[Steve Manning]

In the past I've gone this route as well. Typically when I'm done spraying I let parts sit in the house for about a week to let things setup better. Fortunately my wife is very understanding. :W

[Bear]

You can find a plug-in dehumidifier that should work well in either a large cabinet or small shed. Use low expansion foam to seal any openings/seams, and then put a gasket on the doors. It won't be high volume, but all-in, it should be cheaper than a new garage door.

[Steve Manning]

-might be better for the finishes to "hang" parts in a *cabinet for drying (..assuming they can be hung like the one in that pic.).


*perhaps with temp. and humidity control (..along with dust of course).

Completely agree with you Scott ...... unfortunately controlling the temp and humidity are not in the budget at the moment. I'd like to do a ductless mini split, but I would really need to replace my garage doors as well to make it worth while.

I've thought about hanging the parts, though I only need to be concerned with the outside edge of the ribs, it's the only parts visible when the cabinet is put together. As such sitting them like I am won't mess with the "critical" areas of the finish. I am however priming the entire piece to make sure it's sealed to the environment.

[Scottg]

-might be better for the finishes to "hang" parts in a *cabinet for drying (..assuming they can be hung like the one in that pic.).


*perhaps with temp. and humidity control (..along with dust of course).