Time for some Ansonica - a new design for Jagman's theater

[jagman]

Gotcha. Then these should work well . The tweeter will definitely be off axis.

[Greybeard191]

Questions:

1) I went looking at Solen.ca for parts for the series crossover (I live in Canada and the cross-border brokerage fees are ridiculous for UPS - can add 20-25% to an order from PE)... They have their 'perfect lay" inductors in the same gauges as shown in the crossover diagram (14 thru 20 ga.) Are these OK to use (DCR-wise)? No DCR's are given in the crossover diagram, so is it safe to assume that sticking to the same gauge is good enough? If I decided to go with hgher quality inductors (14 and 16 gauge), does the change in DCR muck things up?

2) Any requirement in the crossover for paralleling parts for power handling?

3) The thread starts by talking about an angled enclosure, ends with a cutlist that again implies an angled enclosure, but actually documents a very cool looking non-angled enclosure. What are the implication of building an enclosure that closely imitates the laminated one show? Or is the crossover shown only good for an angled enclosure?

thanks.

GB

[cjd]

There is no non-angled enclosure for the TMM 2.5way and my build was angled per the design.

The Solen stuff is a great match. Only the lower impedance inductors are all that picky but I'd try to get pretty close with the series setup. Just about everything changes everything else.

I don't recall if I paralleled anything. Resistors in series with the woofers are the likely candidate (on phone and looking up the chart is too slow )

C

[Greybeard191]

There is no non-angled enclosure for the TMM 2.5way and my build was angled per the design.

The Solen stuff is a great match. Only the lower impedance inductors are all that picky but I'd try to get pretty close with the series setup. Just about everything changes everything else.

I don't recall if I paralleled anything. Resistors in series with the woofers are the likely candidate (on phone and looking up the chart is too slow )

C

OK... well thanks for the answers.

I confess some manner of confusion on the angled enclosure part.

The picture on the first page of the thread clearly shows the enclosure angled back (with the tweeter section even more steeply angled). The enclosure diagram on page 3 shows a pretty steep angle (6" in 34", roughly)

The pictures of the laminated enclosure, while immensely cool looking, looks to my eye as completely vertical. Particularly the pictures on page2 of the thread. The braces and vent look like they're at 90° to the front baffle.

I must have a poor eye

GB

[cjd]

The box as built: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=104 - I looked over the pics and yeah, it's hard to see that the baffle is angled, but it really is.

First page is exploratory stuff.

[Greybeard191]

what are the implications of not angling the enclosure? Time alignment?

I'm a little worried that an angled enclosure is beyond by my woodworking skills. The size and performance of this build are very intriguing though, but what BAD things would happen if the enclosure was not angled?

GB

[cjd]

what are the implications of not angling the enclosure? Time alignment?

I'm a little worried that an angled enclosure is beyond by my woodworking skills. The size and performance of this build are very intriguing though, but what BAD things would happen if the enclosure was not angled?

GB

Yes, you'll get bad phase alignment at the listening position.

You can do this with standard "cut slightly proud, use flush-trim to clean up" techniques except the top/bottom of the baffle/back. You can handle that with a little care in cut and glue setup, and a hand-plane, microplane, or even extra-rough grit on an orbital sander and a bit of patience.

Of course, that doesn't apply if you really want the laminate baffle I did, but that won't be any easier going straight than angled.

C

[snmhanson]

I realize this thread is primarily about the Ansonica build (which I really like and may try to build someday), but I have some questions about the Marsala shown on page three. I am looking for surrounds but am facing issues with placement. One option I have would be to mount them at the wall/ceiling junction (actually about 30" into the room where the vertical edge of a tray ceiling meets the ceiling). The tray basically creates a 30" wide x 12" tall box that goes around the entire room. It had to be there to run HVAC stuff.

In any case, would using The Marsala and mounting the tweeter facing straight down and the woofer angled towards the listening area make any sense? Ideally, I guess the tweeter would be facing the listening area with the woofer pointing down, but I am sure that would require a re-design which I am not capable of doing. If it is a feasible concept I may even consider putting two pairs in. One directly to the sides of the listening are and one on the side wall back a ways further or on the back wall.

Anyway, if anyone has any comments or advice I would appreciate the input.

Matt

The Marsala

TM in the same box I build my surrounds in. The one thing that should not change is the spacing between the tweeter and mid-woofer and the angle (45 degrees). The box can be made a little wider, and can be made taller on the tweeter side, with less ill effect - thus, one can tune the box a little.



Response pictured here is at the 45 degree (on-axis with mid-woofer, 45 degrees off-axis from tweeter. 30 degrees is very similar. This is a gated measurement, ignore anything below ~500Hz. See the nearfield stuff I posted in the Anarchy thread to see where this box leaves F3 (about 60Hz), etc.



If you plan to listen closer to 45 degrees (or greater) off-axis from the tweeter, REVERSE POLARITY ON THE TWEETER. If you expect to be mostly above-axis, keep the polarity the same. At 45 degrees it's VERY close, with reversed having slightly better response. SPL is a bit off, probably ~5dB too high.

Impedance is pretty benign.



The proposed crossover - this has NOT been given any ear time yet, so this is not final. Inductors are all Jantzen 18ga for impedance since PE has those listed in a nice chart making it easy, anything close will do. If you want to use a slightly more traditional notch, add a 60ohm resistor in parallel with the LC (.3mH/4uF) ...

[---k---]

At DIY Chicago today:

[dlneubec]

I heard these at the Chicago DIY this past weekend. Here is one testimonial. They were simply excellent, very smooth and balanced and powerful. One of the best 2.5ways I have heard. Anyone considering them can't go wrong. Great Job C!

FWIW, if you want and easy way to do the laminated baffle other than routing and laminating plywood, Menards sells 24" x 60" x 1-3/8" red oak laminated panels that I bet could be adapted to this project very easily. Last time I looked, the panels were only $70 each. I didn't look at the back of the Ansonica, but if it is not laminated as well, one of the panels is probably enough to do two speakers, I would think. That might save a ton of hours.

[---k---]

CJD hasn't trumpeted his own horn, so I will do it for him.

Winner! Ansonica!

Winner of the 2011 DIY Chicago Award for "Speakers I would most like to have in my
Living Room."


Congratulations. Most excellent design.

[cjd]

I wonder if Jagman has completed his yet!

I also took the time to confirm that the Anarchy will be available for a while (with random bouts of "somewhere in a shipping container" possibly thrown in the mix.)

C

[---k---]

I was wondering the same thing earlier today. I was also wondering, since there are for a "theater" shouldn't there be a Center channel too?

[cjd]

since there are for a "theater" shouldn't there be a Center channel too?

Why do you think the tweeter is centered? Yeesh! :roll:

[jagman]

I wonder if Jagman has completed his yet!

I also took the time to confirm that the Anarchy will be available for a while (with random bouts of "somewhere in a shipping container" possibly thrown in the mix.)

C

Nope ops: . I made a tremendous amount of sawdust, have a ton of cut MDF and have a bunch of woofers and tweets sitting in the house with the intention of putting them together this past spring but we had our first baby unexpectedly early and just haven't had the time since them together. I'll be home all of Thanksgiving break without interruption and actually have the blessing from the wife to spend most of the weekend working on them. In the meantime I have to figure out how to use my router 8O .

[jagman]

CJD hasn't trumpeted his own horn, so I will do it for him.

Winner! Ansonica!

Winner of the 2011 DIY Chicago Award for "Speakers I would most like to have in my
Living Room."


Congratulations. Most excellent design.

Very exciting :T ;x( .

[woodfiend]

I may have missed it....but is there a BOM for this somewhere? Nice job cjd.....the reviews seem to glowing and the praises flowing. Do you know what your final build cost for drivers and crossover parts were?

[SpeakerGuy]

Exodus EX-Anarchy woofers are currently on "sale" for $65.00

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=538

[johngalt47]

Ok, I just hit the go button for four of these babies. Hopefully I'll be building a set of these speakers soon....

[Greybeard191]

I've also just ordered the Anarchy woofers and am building a cart at Solen.ca for xover parts and tweeter.

Questions (never having built something that actually used a xover before), so hopefully these questions don't sound stupid.

1) When I look at Solen.ca, or Madisound for that matter (I would order from solen probably as I'm in Canada), all their caps are listed in mfd... but the xover diagram is in uF.

from my old electronics days 1 mF = 1000 uF so does that mean for example a 47uF cap in the xover means I should be buying a 0.047mF cap, but I can't find those... so is mfd in the store(s) really uF?

2) I have a couple of leftover 4" precision ports I could use... does anyone have any idea of the correct port length? It would make the woodworking a little easier for me.

thanks.

GB

[dar47]

I've also just ordered the Anarchy woofers and am building a cart at Solen.ca for xover parts and tweeter.

Questions (never having built something that actually used a xover before), so hopefully these questions don't sound stupid.

1) When I look at Solen.ca, or Madisound for that matter (I would order from solen probably as I'm in Canada), all their caps are listed in mfd... but the xover diagram is in uF.

from my old electronics days 1 mF = 1000 uF so does that mean for example a 47uF cap in the xover means I should be buying a 0.047mF cap, but I can't find those... so is mfd in the store(s) really uF?

2) I have a couple of leftover 4" precision ports I could use... does anyone have any idea of the correct port length? It would make the woodworking a little easier for me.

thanks.

GB

1mfd = 1uf

[Greybeard191]

WRT using a 4" flared port, I've downloaded Unibox and I can input the Anarchy specs.

Question though? How does the 2.5 way factor into the port calculation, or does it? From a Unibox perspective, is the enclosure seeing two Anarchy's?

[Bear]

WRT using a 4" flared port, I've downloaded Unibox and I can input the Anarchy specs.

Question though? How does the 2.5 way factor into the port calculation, or does it? From a Unibox perspective, is the enclosure seeing two Anarchy's?

Yes, model it as two woofers in parallel.

[cjd]

I got 36" length on a 4" port.

You can push the tuning frequency up to 28Hz for a 24" long 4" dia port.

[cjd]

Updated first post with build info and (gasp!) BOM. This probably belongs in the "Completed" section too.

[Greybeard191]

you are a gentlemen sir... thanks, particularly for the BOM.

One thing about the BOM? Back in post 128, you said that C5 had been changed to 10uF? This isn't reflected in the post1 drawing or BOM for the series Xover, which was what was being discussed in post 128, I think. So did C5 change back to 12uF?

GB

[cjd]

Good catch! Yes, 10uF. I need to update the images. I've also added the target impedance for the inductors.

[Hdale85]

So roughly what's the total cost to build these? Seems like a nice speaker for like a bedroom setup or something if you've got the space. Not meaning they wouldn't be good as a main 2 channel speaker, but they don't seem to be say the ultra high end side of things.

[---k---]

That's not a BOM. :roll:

Give me about 30 minutes and I'll have a real one with part # and $$ in it. I don't feel like working today.

[cjd]

That's not a BOM. :roll:

Give me about 30 minutes and I'll have a real one with part # and $$ in it. I don't feel like working today.

The reason I didn't do that is that not everyone will want to shop at the same place. Some may want premium caps, others may want the plain poly. I think I sourced from Erse, Mad, and PE for this.

[Hdale85]

That's true Chris, but it gives everyone a rough idea of what it would cost lol.

[---k---]

The reason I didn't do that is that not everyone will want to shop at the same place. Some may want premium caps, others may want the plain poly. I think I sourced from Erse, Mad, and PE for this.

Yeah. I understand. This is for people to get a rough idea and stuff.
CAUTION, this has not be verified and I make a lot of mistakes:


I think this is accurate. Let me know if I need to change anything. (or delete) I haven't checked it much yet.

This is just a basic. No fancy cap upgrades. I was forced to shop at three places to get a few of the values you did. I started trying to source everything from Madisound, since the tweeters have to come from there. But, then I ran into problems with inductors and figured out you were buying from Erse. I switched all the inductors to Erse as they are slightly cheaper. I left all the caps at Madisound, except the one I couldn't find. I think the caps are slightly cheaper at Erse too. I can't comment on quality.

I saw a recent thread at PE forum complaining about Erse not shipping, blah blah blah. I got an order from them pretty quickly last week, so no problems. But, they were out of stock on several inductors I wanted.

Probably some of these could be purchased at PE, but I was putting this together quickly.

[cjd]

The optional cap can be an electrolytic. That saves a nice chunk of change. On the other hand, you can't always count on the sale price for the Anarchy.

I recommend Mills resistors on the tweeter... PE has such nice binding post plates (and posts) it's worth sending some of the order that way.

People will ask: Yes, it is important to use inductors with the recommended impedance *or lower* (though don't go crazy). Air core, please.

[---k---]

I switched the the resistor in the tweeter, or at least the one I think is in the tweeter , to the mills. Boy are those expensive compared to the sand-cast from Erse (though I did use the big 25W resistors). But, I trust your ears. It isn't that big of expense.

It was offset by switching the optional cap to the NPE. Mylar from Erse is a another at $8/ea. So many options.... diY.

[engr_dave]

Congratulations on the win at Chicago. Beautiful design and execution!

It looks like the baffle chamfer profile changes just below the lower woofer. Is this described somewhere? Is there an acoustic reason not to run the full chamfer all the way down... or just an interesting look?

These appear perfect for my master bedroom 2.0 system (50/50 movies/music). I have been looking for a design with F3 of 25Hz or below in reasonable size (to avoid the whole subwoofer thing). My room is large (16' x 22' with 10' ceilings) but I don't need them to play very loud.

I like the slot port but I seem to recall thread a while ago about minimum slot port height due to "boundary layer thickness" or something like that. Is 1" enough?

[cjd]

it's a full 18mm deep 45° chamfer except down by the port so it didnt end up with a razor edge there. no diffraction reasons to have it at all but i preferred the look with it.

[SpeakerGuy]

I was wondering about the box size - the designer of the woofers recommends ~ 14L per driver? Did you end up with about 50% more than that? Could you tell us your thoughts on the box size/tuning etc?

[cjd]

Kevin lists one box option. I run the numbers and, with a different set of goals in mind, not surprisingly come up with a different box size and tuning frequency. In this case, I gave up some power handling for a little more low end reach.

Also, I do not think his box size recommendations include the effects of crossover components.

C

[agrippa]

Should this be an mission accomplished design? I suppose it need an updated BOM from what Chris added/changed of K's.

[technodanvan]

Those really are some good looking speakers. I've got enough projects lying around unfinished right now but I'd really like to play with those Exodus drivers someday. Hopefully they'll be around another couple of years!

[Dark Regent]

I keep coming back to this design. I've got 8 Anarchy's that I'm planning on using in a new 5 channel home theater setup and I was already planning on using the SB29 tweeter. However, I'm not sold on 2-ways for home theater duty. I've got some Exodus Kepler 2-ways which use the Exodus 6.5 and Peerless HDS tweeter and they seem to get overwhelmed when watching movies. I was planning on going three way on the next set of speakers with a midrange to handle the vocals, maybe something like the ScanSpeak Discovery D7608/9200-10 3" Dome Midrange.

I was planning on going

2x TMWW for the fronts
1x WMTMW for the center
2x TMW for the rears

but I keep trying to talk myself out of using the midrange cause I like this design but that would only account for 2 of the 5 speakers in the system anyway. It is a great looking speaker and design! Good job.

[cjd]

For HT you just need to relieve these of the bottom octave and they'll be great on mid range.

That's not to say I wouldn't go 3-way but that only helps so much.

I'd love to publish a 3-way but don't have justification to build it myself. If you're local enough to build and drop stuff off I'd love to work up crossovers.

Also would not use this tweet in a 3-way probably. I mean, it would work fine but...

[dlneubec]

Hey Chris, how about an Ansonica with a waveguided tweeter? That could be interesting.

[cjd]

Hey Chris, how about an Ansonica with a waveguided tweeter? That could be interesting.

None to consider are consistently and readily available. These probably would have used one otherwise.

C

[Dark Regent]

I'd love to publish a 3-way but don't have justification to build it myself. If you're local enough to build and drop stuff off I'd love to work up crossovers.

Also would not use this tweet in a 3-way probably. I mean, it would work fine but...

That'd be cool but unfortunately all I've got so far are the Anarchy's, got one free when I built a Tempest X2 sub through Kevin's offer and picked up the rest when they were on sale. Distance is an issue also, I'm in New Mexico.

As of yet I'm still undecided as to which midrange to go with. I've read some good things about the ScanSpeak 3" dome for SQ but it does have a narrow frequency range.

Do you think the SB29 is overkill for a 3-way or is there another reason you wouldn't recommend it?