Three Way Evil Design Study

[Face]

I just completed a pair of 130lbs towers, I couldn't imagine hauling an extra 70lbs around...

[JonMarsh]

I just completed a pair of 130lbs towers, I couldn't imagine hauling an extra 70lbs around...

Reminds me of how I felt after getting the Ardents together first.

A likely scenario is that they won't be completely assembled until over at GF's where they're likely going to live. Will make them easier to move in the mean time. We sort of have to do a test run for this, after she gets back from her trip to Cuba with one of her girlfriends.

FORTUNATELY the Aurasound NS12-513-4 are very light for a relatively long throw 12- let's hear it for Neodymium magnets! Net weight each is only 4.8 kg.


That is SO much lighter than the Seas L26ROY! Yesterday I moved one of the Arvo Picante cabinets off the carpeted roller board I have them on for convenience, (to borrow the roller board for the second Isiris bass module), and I couldn't BELIEVE how heavy they are! Now I remember why I was building the baffles with tooling grade baltic birch ply! I should weigh those too...

99.8 lb, but there's hardly any cabinet weight in that! They're just not big enough to weigh that much! :W

Then, there's all those high end commercial loudspeakers- one of the worst I've heard of is the new top of the line Wilson Audio Maxx XLF- 655 lb EACH, the complete shipping pair in crates comes in at 1910 lb!

Shucks, these are just overgrown mini-monitors with a little double 12" bass bin! :lol:

[CraigJ]

For the record:

Bottom module: 118 lb empty
Baseplate: 11.8 lb
Top Module: 35 lb

Total without drivers: ~165 lb. Not bad... slightly painful... will be closing on 200 lb with drivers.

Looking very nice Jon,

Be careful, just remember what happened 10 years ago around this time; "I started pre-op preparations last Thursday, and will go into surgery this Tuesday afternoon for a "lumbar micro discectomy"."

That is one lucky girl friend. Is she going to let you set up that newish NEC 10PG?

Happy building,

Craigj

[JonMarsh]

Looking very nice Jon,

Be careful, just remember what happened 10 years ago around this time; "I started pre-op preparations last Thursday, and will go into surgery this Tuesday afternoon for a "lumbar micro discectomy"."

That is one lucky girl friend. Is she going to let you set up that newish NEC 10PG?

Happy building,

Craigj

Well, the problem with my back 10 years ago was caused by one of these when I was in my 20's.



Trouble was, me on one end and any two other members of the band on the other end was what it took to move it around.

OTOH, I have more sense and better "moving" tools these days! Final assembly will likely be over at her place, which will probably become my new residence some time this year, if things go as we think. So I shouldn't be moving more than 120 to 150 lb at a time for now.

And the back has been doing very well- what with the exercise routine and the passage of time, I'm more agile and stronger than since my mid 40's, and have no back pain or twinges at all, which I DID have in the mid 40's. (plus a small fall in my early 30's that was like an ice pick in my back and laid me up in bed for days- the first payback from my years of Hammond moving.)

My 9PG is an open question, there's a secondary bedroom that might get converted into a mini theater with the project screen and another small HT setup. (Man cave?) Don't really know how that will work out- the family room has tons of glass on one wall, not the best locale for HT, though we have a newish 50" plasma from Costco setup in it now.

Many open questions. :W

[JonMarsh]

Saturday's teaser

OK, just another teaser shot, while I get back to detail work on the second cabinet set and the internal wiring harnesses.

This is cabinet one, sans, the baseplate, still unfinished of course. :banana:




Took a lot of work to get here... I don't know if I would have started these if I'd fully understood what I was getting into! :roll:

Just read a review of the Wilson Alexandria XLF speaker on Stereophile, made me fell good, realizing that these are really just overgrown mini-monitors with a bass bin, and are VERY portable compared with the Wilson's 655 lb per speaker weight! 8O

No wretched excess here, move along folks, these aren't the speakers you're looking for... now!

[Hdale85]

I think they are the speakers I'm looking for I've been planning to take a stab at a design like this for a while and before long we will be buying a house and I should have space to actually have a proper spot to build stuff

[JonMarsh]

I think they are the speakers I'm looking for I've been planning to take a stab at a design like this for a while and before long we will be buying a house and I should have space to actually have a proper spot to build stuff

That last part is REALLY critical, I think! :T I'd never recommend someone do what I've been doing, putting these together in a two bedroom condo, with an excursion or two to my GF's home to do the initial rough cutting to width. I have three off site storage rooms and spend a lot of time shuttling stuff back and forth between my work room and the off site storage using my Element. Not the way to go to save time and effort!

[Hdale85]

Yeah, I built the 2 speakers I have built in a 2 bedroom apartment as well. Difference being that it rains and snows here all the time and I wasn't able to do much sanding outside and what not. But I got it done, but I really think I could of done a lot better in a garage or something. Something like what you're building I don't think I'd even attempt without some sort of small shop space. It's pretty amazing what you do with what you have though.

[dar47]

I would love to take a crack at these " to big I'm so sad" but maybe for someone else for fun. My 18's came in so I got lots of reading, planing and prep for an IB this spring. When you rap these and the Ardents up I will immediately drop everything and start on the Ardents.

They look fantastic, great progress Jon.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I'm hoping John has the time to document these enough to put out some sort of plan. I originally was thinking about doing an active speaker designed similar to these, but I think I'd rather just go passive due to the amount of amplifiers and what not I'd have to include. I'm not sure I'm ready to have that many components in my 2 channel setup lol.

[JonMarsh]

Thee way actives can be a PITA, in my experience!

And yes, wrapping up the Ardents is high on my priority list, as well as some clean documentation for both projects.

[Hdale85]

Awesome definitely be looking forward to that. Do you need a special saw setup to cut those facets?

Also need to update the 2012 part of your SIG lol.

[JonMarsh]

Awesome definitely be looking forward to that. Do you need a special saw setup to cut those facets?

Also need to update the 2012 part of your SIG lol.

As I mentioned earlier in this rambling mess of a thread, I did purchase a DeWalt DWS760 which made a lot of the cuts easier- I did build a jig to use on my Ryobi table saw for cutting bevels on the Ardents, but the 12" dual bevel compound sliding miter saw made a lot of things easier to do with better precision.

In the build thread I'll have a special section on MVP tools.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, I built the 2 speakers I have built in a 2 bedroom apartment as well. Difference being that it rains and snows here all the time and I wasn't able to do much sanding outside and what not. But I got it done, but I really think I could of done a lot better in a garage or something. Something like what you're building I don't think I'd even attempt without some sort of small shop space. It's pretty amazing what you do with what you have though.

Where do you live? Seattle? Alaska?

I just noticed you're a year younger than my daughter!

[Hdale85]

Hah, I live in Ohio, its either raining or snowing it seems. We havemnt been getting many clear days the last few years.

[PMazz]

Jon, it's a shame you're not closer to me. We could put a serious dent in that to-do list!

Of course, knowing you, you'd just make a bigger list....

[Steve Manning]

That last part is REALLY critical, I think! :T I'd never recommend someone do what I've been doing, putting these together in a two bedroom condo, with an excursion or two to my GF's home to do the initial rough cutting to width. I have three off site storage rooms and spend a lot of time shuttling stuff back and forth between my work room and the off site storage using my Element. Not the way to go to save time and effort!

Great minds, (or is it crazy?) think alike....... Jon can you ID the car fender in this picture? Seems like we have similar tastes in tools and cars!

[JonMarsh]

Ah Hah! I almost got that color, but settled on silver in the end! Most practical useful car I've ever owned! I was surprised and disappointed when Honda announced they were discontinuing the Element- I guess most people that wanted one had one, and it's not the sort of car you replace every 3-4 years because your current one has gone out of style!

[Jonasz]

Never wrong with Honda, have had a couple through the years. Almost bought an Acura TSX (wich is the same model as the Accord here in Europe) but ended up getting a Saab 9-5 instead, they're fun to drive and cheap, a lot of car for the money! :B

[JonMarsh]

I've heard a lot of good things about the 9-5, had a lot of friends in Boulder that drove Saabs. I've heard that you can't get newer models than 2012 in the US, and they're now just selling parts in the US- what do you know about their story?

[Steve Manning]

Ah Hah! I almost got that color, but settled on silver in the end! Most practical useful car I've ever owned! I was surprised and disappointed when Honda announced they were discontinuing the Element- I guess most people that wanted one had one, and it's not the sort of car you replace every 3-4 years because your current one has gone out of style!

That's actually our second one(my wife's actually) both have been orange, she liked the color because it was funky. Obviously we also like them, not the smoothest, or most luxurious, but you can do just about everything with one. We are also not happy with Honda for discontinuing it. Hoping they will bring it back in a few years or come out with something newer and better.

[Jonasz]

They're unfortunately out of business, at least for the moment. I think the new 9-5 will probably be back on the market in the future but if it's going to be under the Saab brand or not I don't know.

Part of the company is Chinese and part is still Swedish owned by NEVS (National Electric Vehicle Sweden AB). The future Saabs are going to be electric if I'm not mistaken.

The old 9-5 and 9-3 is sold to China and is now sold under the BAW (Beijing Automotive Works) name and looks something like this:

[Hdale85]

Nothing like a Saab.....kind of ugly if you ask me lol. I didn't like the older Saab's but the newer ones I kind of had a thing for. But it's hard for me not to buy something German after owning a VW.

[Hdale85]

Jon, did you decide which mid and tweeter you are going to use? Or are those still depending on testing?

[JonMarsh]

Jon, did you decide which mid and tweeter you are going to use? Or are those still depending on testing?

Still going with the Accuton C173-6-90 and the Jantzen JDT-1024. In fact, I got one of the top modules loaded and wired today for testing, though not with the final wiring harness (parts not yet received- soon this week I hope!)

[JonP]

Not real without picts! :W

Glad to hear about progress. No more shopvac/organ distractions. Unless, of course, there happens to be a shopvacing organ combo...

Hmmmm.... can you move enough air with that Dewalt to drive a pipe or two... maybe even that 32'.... Actually 32' shouldn't be all that difficult with a folded array of 4" ABS and 90deg elbows...

No! Must Resist!!! Jon, that was not the thought you were looking for... Move along...

[JonMarsh]

Hmmmm.... can you move enough air with that Dewalt to drive a pipe or two... maybe even that 32'.... Actually 32' shouldn't be all that difficult with a folded array of 4" ABS and 90deg elbows...

No! Must Resist!!! Jon, that was not the thought you were looking for... Move along...

As is always the case, and reflected in this thread, I must resist discussions, excursions, and side trips to smell the flowers, or these will never be done! :rofl:

The last three weeks anytime someone mentions something related to keyboards, visions and sounds of XK3c's go dancing in my mind, haunting my dreams like flashbacks to the old swamps of Dagobah... this must not continue!



Besides, I'm back to my day job this morning, which is ramping up to a new level of difficulty with this so called promotion. (Where's the money, honey? A deferral/postponement this year of all of all merit increases due to the business/financial means I have roughly 20% more work on the same pay... not necessarily an encouraging situation! )

[dar47]

Jon? That's called added duties not a promotion.

I got a new Engineering manager with zero Natural Gas experience and a gave him 2 weeks before I thought he would try to take credit for something, it happened in the third week. He wants a Planning criteria document out of me so I think will take some time trying to communicate 16 years of work developing a state of the art Gas Distribution planning process. That re-class and raise will come some day.

[JonMarsh]

Geez, well, we all have our own crosses to bear, don't we? Nothing like leading from below and training your manager!

[benchtester]

Geez, well, we all have our own crosses to bear, don't we? Nothing like leading from below and training your manager!

Hey, monday mornings are bad enough! This is getting a little "too close to home" (or should that be "work").

[Hdale85]

Still going with the Accuton C173-6-90 and the Jantzen JDT-1024. In fact, I got one of the top modules loaded and wired today for testing, though not with the final wiring harness (parts not yet received- soon this week I hope!)

That's looking incredible. Are you going to leave all the bamboo finishes?

[Hank]

Great progress there, Jon! I don't wanna read about you guys' overloads:

I have roughly 20% more work on the same pay... not necessarily an encouraging situations

- it's depressing. Guess how much my pay increased with being "given" a big division to handle, on top of my other 2 biz units. :-( But hey - we are employed!
Now if I can just get that evil twin guy to buy a certain brand of abrasives...

[dar47]

Hey, monday mornings are bad enough! This is getting a little "too close to home" (or should that be "work").

Sorry ops:, I should never mention work again we come hear to get away form SH##$! and take part in some some real joy. :B

[JonMarsh]

That's looking incredible. Are you going to leave all the bamboo finishes?

At this stage they're unfinished, and I haven't done the grille cloths yet (to be magnetically attached, more of that expensium neodymium!)

YES, the plan is to use a natural clear finish for the LBL - nothing else. I've got a couple of test pieces I have to finish with my "competing" approaches, see if there's issues or benefits to one over the other (mainly in how I handle filling the bamboo pores). Some real brief stuff, like the lacquer sealing of the baseplates, looked quite nice (to me) that way. It won't be a look for everyone, but it should be a very hard, durable finish, and, NO VENEERING!

[JonMarsh]

Great progress there, Jon! I don't wanna read about you guys' overloads:
- it's depressing. Guess how much my pay increased with being "given" a big division to handle, on top of my other 2 biz units. :-( But hey - we are employed!
Now if I can just get that evil twin guy to buy a certain brand of abrasives...

Yeah, you and I just have to ride things down for the next few years... I think it will go OK, though you never know. And it's good to be employed, for certain- I know a lot of people in our age bracket that have basically been shut out of the market due to changing requirements and the ways companies operate. So, oddly, I'm actually the aggressive one, often, about new technologies and tools, compared to many much younger in the organization. Like balancing at the leading edge of a wave coming in to shore... there may come a time to jump off! :roll:

[TacoD]

Looks very good, don't get me wrong but I like you also put very nice drive units those nice cabinets. At times I am amazed people build a cabinet which takes weeks and lots of money to finish and then load it up with cheap woofers .

[JonMarsh]

Looks very good, don't get me wrong but I like you also put very nice drive units those nice cabinets. At times I am amazed people build a cabinet which takes weeks and lots of money to finish and then load it up with cheap woofers .

That is so, SO TRUE! And it amazes me! Considering the work involved, it just doesn't make sense, if if you only "pay" or "charge" yourself minimum wage! For a complicated cabinet build, the time effort really is substantial.

For example, for the old M8ta, there's no sense not upgrading to at least the RS225 version, if not a W22 Seas version! When you consider the effort building the enclosure, it only makes sense. Another guy is building those now, and taking my advise to use the 66000 air circ tweeter- I think that will turn out nice.

Meanwhile, I'm VERY careful handling and working with these expensive drivers- at least the Accuton's I got a couple of years ago at about half the current price!

[Hdale85]

Well, I think it's hard to add a value to your time when it's something you actually enjoy? Of course it might be different for Jon likely because he gets such little free time as it is.

[JonMarsh]

Well, I think it's hard to add a value to your time when it's something you actually enjoy? Of course it might be different for Jon likely because he gets such little free time as it is.

:yesnod:

[5th element]

Looking forward to the measurements of that Jensen dome I have to say

[CADman_ks]

That's looking incredible. Are you going to leave all the bamboo finishes?

I concur.

There is something about the Acutons. I don't know what it is.

I've been in this "hobby" for a very very short time, and there is just something about the look of the Acutons that makes me WANT to use them in something.

They pair very nicely with the Jantzens.

Top all of that with the sexy looking bamboo cabinets, and these units definitely take DIY to a whole new level.

MOST EXCELLENT WORK JON!!!

[JonMarsh]

I concur.

There is something about the Acutons. I don't know what it is.

I've been in this "hobby" for a very very short time, and there is just something about the look of the Acutons that makes me WANT to use them in something.

They pair very nicely with the Jantzens.

Top all of that with the sexy looking bamboo cabinets, and these units definitely take DIY to a whole new level.

MOST EXCELLENT WORK JON!!!

Thanks for the kind words- believe me, they look nice, but it's how the Accuton c79 and T90 sound that make them worthwhile!

Some of the other Accuton mids and midwoofers look just as nice, but they don't measure or sound nearly as good... something learned the hard way in some cases. (C89's, for example, and the older T95) At least, with the data sheets they provide now, you can have a pretty clear idea of what you're getting into.

[kvardas]

Nice work Jon!!!

[JonMarsh]

Nice work Jon!!!

Thanks for the kind works, Kris!

Today should be exciting, too, because the large crossover inductors are due to "hit the dock" from Canada via UPS! I've been gearing up for the crossover development and construction, even have some nice thinner phenolic boards purchased via Amazon for the crossover construction. And a variety of other electrical bits came in last Saturday and Monday.

I'm beginning to believe these will actually make sound some day... maybe not too long from now!

[TacoD]

What are the advantages of using phenolic boards (I guess same stuff as pcb boards - Paper/ epoxy resin) for building your x-over (again asuming you will hardwire the components).

Those speakers will make some noise, or does test tones don't count .