New Build Thread - Ardent D by SMJ

[theSven]

Early April would be great for me to tag along with Efalegalo. I leave for a business trip next week and will be out for 2 weeks. I'm super excited for you JimS. The weather is getting really good if you still were thinking about painting these cabinets.

Thanks for the kind words about keeping the forum going. It's been rewarding having older members come back and engage again. The biggest battle these days is the bots that pound on the site and trying to manage them without having other pieces of the forum break. Another problem for another day.

I'm sooooo looking forward to a listening session!!

[JimS]

JimS - I'd love to come check out the speakers (don't want to impose, but very much interste). I have measurement gear I could bring over, if you are interested in measuring how they perform in your room.

Hi Dhar, of course, would be happy to host. Just need to find some available time, realistically might be early April . Will txt to find a good date.

[Efalegalo]

JimS - I'd love to come check out the speakers (don't want to impose, but very much interste). I have measurement gear I could bring over, if you are interested in measuring how they perform in your room.

[JimS]

After looking a little closer at the picture ..... clever use of those extra PR discs!

Nice catch, waste not, want not 😜

[JimS]

(*if you have small kids, cats or clumsy dogs this is not an endorsement of this approach….)


🤣

What about clumsy grownups?

I was going to say they are now more stable than me 😜, at least with the tilt people will think twice about setting drinks on them 👍

[Steve Manning]

For the stability question, I added the base Steve built and some shims for the rear footers which tilt the cabinet forward ~4 degrees (final tilt to be determined based on measurement and listening) and it’s now fully stable front to back. Side to side still has a bit of wiggle on carpet so I may add outriggers or a bigger base at some point, but for now it is fine for me (*if you have small kids, cats or clumsy dogs this is not an endorsement of this approach….)

After looking a little closer at the picture ..... clever use of those extra PR discs!

[JonMarsh]

Don't forget what can be done with a passive inline filter between preamp and power amp, as discussed in the thread about a "Voicing Filter". Was looking at the same for a Kii inspired design, due to the LF roll off of the log throw Peerless woofers. Easy to pick up 3 dB or more, and almost zero chance of any coloration, unlike an active solution.

[JonMarsh]

(*if you have small kids, cats or clumsy dogs this is not an endorsement of this approach….)

🤣

What about clumsy grownups?

[JimS]

For the stability question, I added the base Steve built and some shims for the rear footers which tilt the cabinet forward ~4 degrees (final tilt to be determined based on measurement and listening) and it’s now fully stable front to back. Side to side still has a bit of wiggle on carpet so I may add outriggers or a bigger base at some point, but for now it is fine for me (*if you have small kids, cats or clumsy dogs this is not an endorsement of this approach….)

[JimS]

Really exciting news for this thread and ‘new speaker’ day for me!!

I had a chance to drive up to Steve’s over the weekend and pick up the cabs/crossovers. For background, this project started with a forum post in the Kurosawa thread and inquiry to Steve about a build in early 2000, then Covid stopped any progress for a number of years. When I finally got back around to it, we didn’t formally kick off project planning and confirm the build until early 2025. So there has been quite a bit of anticipation on my side to get these running. Short answer: totally exceeded expectations!!

Before getting into impressions, a moment of reflection and thanks….

First, huge thanks to Jon who so freely shares his knowledge, expertise and, most importantly, time with this community. Over the past decade+ I've had numerous beautiful and goosebump raising moments from music playback due to the designs Jon's published here as well as his many musings and measurements of speakers and associated playback gear throughout the years. Short answer, if you are on the fence or considering building one of Jon's designs, grab one that fits your budget/skills and do it, you won't be disappointed!!

Also, Steve who diplomatically and professionally managed through the decision and design process while providing helpful advice and nudges along the way, despite some questionable aesthetic thoughts at various times from the starter of this thread . Pictures on the forum look great, but IMHO do minimal justice to Steve's completed projects which you really need to see in person to appreciate - he's not only building to spec but adding all the small touches and attention to detail which delight in the finished work. He is truly an artist and most highly recommended if you need help with portions of your build or a turnkey project.

Finally Sven who keeps this community vibrant and does so much unheralded work to maintain the vast wealth of knowledge (and associated photos) which have been compiled here over the years. Also great that someone local was willing to share their experience in building a (quite different looking) version of the Ardent d and I'm looking forward to some quality listening sessions if we ever end up in town on the same weekend .

OK, on to the speakers. These are spectacular looking, great sounding out of the box (so far with no in-room measurement, no sonic barrier/estimated stuffing, and limited positioning/set up time in room) and really nicely sized for aesthetic/performance balance.

I've had minimal time to listen so far and what I've heard shows I need to spend much more effort on the room than I was able to get away with for dipoles (i.e. leaning absorber panels from the studio at first reflections didn't quite cut it....). Room issues aside cymbals/trumpet/vocals/orchestral brass and strings sounded great (quick playlist = Miles/Nefertiti, Holly Cole/anything, Fritz Reiner/Mussorgsky, etc.) and get me really excited about the potential here once dialed in .

Thanks all, more when I get back into town and have a bit more time....

[Steve Manning]

Absolutely amazing! Do you, by any chance, have pictures from the underside of any of the crossover boards? I'm just so impressed with your work --- and hoping to use the pics from the underside as a learning opportunity. Also, can you please share what adhesive you use to glue the crossover components to the board?

I do not have any pictures of the undersides .... that's where the really sloppy stuff is. 😁I suppose that would make sense though, for any possible remote troubleshooting. In general nothing too crazy .... you'll notice I tend to use stand offs for what ever is under there. Not only a few wires, but cable tie ends and screw heads.

As for the adhesive I use, J-B Weld 8271 KwikWeld Professional Size Steel Reinforced Epoxy Twin Pack - 10 oz. For larger heavier components I add some cable ties just in case. I tried hot glue, various types and brands, but had bonding issues. The Kwik Weld takes longer to set up but some far I've not had any issues. Though one problem child is the wax coated coils .... nothing sticks to those.

[Efalegalo]

Absolutely amazing! Do you, by any chance, have pictures from the underside of any of the crossover boards? I'm just so impressed with your work --- and hoping to use the pics from the underside as a learning opportunity. Also, can you please share what adhesive you use to glue the crossover components to the board?

[Steve Manning]

Stunning work! --- will the speaker have a base? As built, are they prone to falling back?

Thanks for the kind words ...... and yes there are bases. These are them.





I installed it on the first cabinet, minus the feet and had to remove it because of concern over tipping. Between my 4 year old granddaughter and 95lb dog, I didn't want to risk it.

With Jon's original design, the cabinet has a 10 degree rake to it, his base has outriggers as well as tipping the cabinet forwards 5 degrees offering up far more stability.

Jim had asked for this design with the possibility of having to tweak things later. Of note, from what Jim told me, these will be sitting on hard flooring. In my room, there's carpet with a separate rug and padding they are sitting on, exacerbating the stability issue. Jim will make the final call in his space.

[Efalegalo]

Stunning work! --- will the speaker have a base? As built, are they prone to falling back?

[Steve Manning]

Well I've managed to get to the end of the fiddly bits finally!

With all the crossover boards installed as well as internal wiring, my wife helped me move the cabinets into my listening room. Yes, that is Christmas decorations your seeing! Between having snow on the ground for over a month and now rain, the yard is too swampy to haul it out to the storage shed.



I'd also finished up soldering pigtails onto the drivers and got started on installing those







First cabinet with all the drivers ....



And with the PR's installed.



Both cabinets finished and making music ......





At this point there is no stuffing in the cabinets ..... I wanted to check and insure everything was connected correctly in case I had to pull crossover boards. Fortunately everything appears to be good. Of course we're lacking some lower end as a result, but that is easily resolved.

[Steve Manning]

C'mon now, you should put blame where it belongs, on those maple ply front panels I designed! The crossovers are just a "grace note" so to speak!

I don't know that there's much grace in those boards .... though they are ~30% smaller than the ones you did. Maybe that will make them a little more graceful. 😁

[JonMarsh]

First cabinet wired and standing. Just have to make some pigtails for the drivers yet. Needless to say with one of Jon's crossover designs, the cabinets became less easy to move around!

C'mon now, you should put blame where it belongs, on those maple ply front panels I designed! The crossovers are just a "grace note" so to speak!

[JimS]

Cool Steve, looking closer….

[Steve Manning]

Had a slight delay waiting for a wire delivery for the internal wiring. Hopefully I ordered enough!



Woofer board installed.





Tweeter and midrange boards.







First cabinet wired and standing. Just have to make some pigtails for the drivers yet. Needless to say with one of Jon's crossover designs, the cabinets became less easy to move around!

[Steve Manning]

Well here's the last of them, the midrange boards ......





The plan for today was get some internal cabinet wiring done, but Amazon only shipped half of the heat shrink I need. As they say, it's always something ......

[Efalegalo]

JimS / theSven - if need be, I should be able to help.

[JimS]

That would be great Sven 👍

[theSven]

I have some of these pieces already and could stop over at Jims for a measurement day 😀

[JonMarsh]

OK, I'll write up a bit online and then post it, let's say at my leisure. It's the sort of topic here where a direct conversation might be useful.

I tried to look up the tech specs on your SRO mics, but they're a bit "mature" like us, though a couple of places say they are similar or identical to the TC20. The main design point of the TC20 is the ability to handle very high SPLs... frequency response rated 9Hz to 20kHz, with no dB window given in the sites I found this morning.

The important detail to clarify is what YOU need or want to accomplish in measurement- there's a big difference between what is needed for detailed individual driver analysis and system design synthesis, versus just checking response of speaker in room for a given listening position and speaker placement, and possibly adjusting driver padding some, or making acoustic updates for the room.

I have three different test carts, for example, one with Pocket Clio; they are self contained with preamps, power amps, a digital storage scope, etc. Thats probably a bit overboard for what you need, price considered. Good budget small two channel storage scopes adequate for level checking from the power amp can be had for as little as ~$400, like this Siglent I have two of.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XZML6RD?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_3&th=1




But if you don't have the need for exact signal tracking, or you go for a tool like Pocket Clio, with it's built in AC voltmeter that can track output levels, then the scope isn't really necessary. Unless you're a bit OCD like I am, and have lived by the concept of "Trust, but verify" for decades.

I'll create a folder in Apple Notes to collect information, then when you're back from out of town, touch base and maybe start off with a short phone call followed up with some reading material.

[JimS]

Thanks Jon, no rush on my account. I’m out of town next few weeks in any case.

[JonMarsh]

Sorry I haven't followed up on this yet but this has not been a Sunday Funday!

Instead, "emergency" grocery purchases for the wife, and advocacy work for a friend of a friend recovering from a health emergency, with a doctor's book that should help plus a listing for a blood analysis service in North Carolina that I have used for some specialized tests and can do the test he needs (IMO) if his local healthcare organization can't support it.

you know the old saying, about life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. Re the original plans for the day, I'm about to start at the 8:30 AM task but it's 4:30 PM!

[JonMarsh]

I'm going to give you a detailed answer on that tomorrow morning- need to check out the SRO earthworks; one of my two standard mics is an Earthworks M30, but I got an Audix TM1 last July to play around with, and it has interesting tradeoffs- a bit lower sensitivity, but seems to have a lower noise and distortion floor in the low frequency area, so I've been using it more.

And I love my Motu M4, and Fuzzmeasure.

BUT, for what you may need to do, it's possible that considering a Pocket CLIO setup would be worth exploring. I'll figure out some questions and relevant comparison thoughts to consider...

[JimS]

Well now that pickup is becoming a near-term reality, time to turn some attention to my side of the equation.

Upstream components are all in place (more in line with Jon’s caviar wishes than an all-out assault….) though should be a pretty satisfying system 👍

I’ll be using Innuos zen mini mk3 for source (both local files and Qobuz), LAIV micro harmony for dac, and Cambridge edge w for power. Other goodies include BADA usb converter and equitech for balanced power. TBD after listening whether to explore linear power supply for the zen and laiv and possibly an etherRegen for the network switch.

Current plan on finishing will be wood conditioner to blend the baffle/sides and solid tinted stain finish (was going to go for automotive type paint, but my travel schedule plus Sven’s encouragement to show off the baffles a bit led me to try this). If I don’t like it can always spray over it 😡.

Jon - what would you suggest for measurement set up these days (haven’t looked into this in quite a few years)? I’ve got a not too old MacBook Air, a few converters and some earthworks SRO mics (used for drum overheads and should be reasonably flat…) lying around already….

[JonMarsh]

Steve is a very busy guy... working hard to defeat the concept of slow work takes time!

[JimS]

Hey Steve, cabs and crossover boards looking great 👍

[Steve Manning]

The chipping away has continued ......

Moved on to the woofer boards next.



While woofer boards were underway, the second cabinet was finished.






First woofer board completed.





4 boards finished and 2 to go ..... though that is underway.

[Steve Manning]

Thanks Boss Man on the crossovers .....

As for the shop ..... for a mere $65K you to can have your very own duplicate space. Of course that was back in 2022, who knows what it would cost today. That's with you doing some of the work yourself and then you have to equip it!

[JonMarsh]

Very good looking job on the crossover builds, Steve!

[JonMarsh]

Work has continued on the cabinet sides.

Weather has been nice so I can enjoy the shop being open.



A little sanding of the MDF to rough up the surface prior to glue up.



Many clamps required as usual.






After clean up of things.

I am so, SO jealous of all the space Steve has to work in!

😆

[Steve Manning]

Well despite all the snow and cold weather, some progress is being made.

Started the gluing process on the first set of xover boards.



While waiting for epoxy to cure I started cabinet clean up and sanding to 120 grit.



At this point the tweeter boards have been completed.

[Steve Manning]

First cabinet with binding posts ....





Started the game of shuffle the crossover parts. It always seems to take a little bit to get the mind back in that mode.

[Steve Manning]

Finally got around to installing the last of the threaded inserts ..... this time so the bases can be attached.

Had to epoxy the baffles in place first.





With the inserts installed the bases could then be mounted.



Then last in line the feet.



Next up is rough sanding of everything and dealing with any major surface issues. Crossover board construction will take place at the same time.

[Evil Twin]

Now, does not this hard rock maple ply machine exceptionally nicely?

[Steve Manning]

Happy new year Steve!!

Same to you Jim

[JimS]

Happy new year Steve!!

[Steve Manning]

Well now that the dust is settling from the holidays I was able to get some time in the shop today. Got some mortises cut for the dominos to attach the baffles.

I was then able to get the baffles cut to final length. Some clean up is needed yet on the baffles prior to glue up.

[theSven]

Those are some intense baffles! The build looks to be progressing very nicely.

[JimS]

Whoa, starting to look a lot like speakers 🤩

Nice work as always Steve 👍

[Steve Manning]

While glue is drying on the second cabinet, I'm getting a little fitting of the first baffle for trimming. Also doing some layout for domino placement.

[Steve Manning]

Which is more fun, watching paint or glue dry? Either way, slow.







Finally the first cabinet is ready for the baffle. Note the clamp at the bottom, it's rather prone to tipping over backwards at this point.