Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

[Renron]

Heh, I had to use a bit of Evercoat after my boxes came out with a touch of parallelogram effect. I used it between the Baltic and the hardboard on the sides with epoxy and it came out perfect. A pain in the ass without a cheese grater though.

You sound like an experienced body and fender man instead of an Engineer living in the Penthouse.
Good stuff eh?

[TEK]

Whats a "cheese grater"?

[benthe8track]

You sound like an experienced body and fender man instead of an Engineer living in the Penthouse.
Good stuff eh?

Haha I spent a lot of my youth playing with rusty Hondas.

Whats a "cheese grater"?

This thing:

[Steve Manning]

In one of my many different jobs in the past, I restored antique claw foot bathtubs. (Where I learned paint and HVLP) I've tried many different brands of (body) fillers and the BEST by far was Evercoat. Minimal shrinkage if any, sands smooth and easy, takes a coat of paint well (not like a sponge). Good stuff. Only problem was the cream hardener, after about a year it goes bad. Can of Evercoat lasts many , many years thou.

No Bob, your not alone. Right Tek? LOL
Ron

Nice fix on the oops Ron ...... have you ever used U-POL FIBRAL LITE, I was wondering how it compares to the Evercoat. It is certainly way better than regular bondo to work with.

[Renron]

Steve,
The U-Pol Fibral lite is comparable to "Kitty Hair" by EverCoat. They are a fiberglass resin (type) of filler with chopped up (short) strands of fiberglass embedded in the resin. They also make a (long) strand . Their purpose is to provide a support structure and the strength to support the finish filler. The product I pictured above is an ultra smooth "finish" coat of body filler.
Direct answer to your question; Yes, but I prefer EverCoat's products. Just what I prefer, doesn't mean their better. I like the EverCoat line because of it's high quality, the stuff is not cheap. But, I never get air bubbles or pin holes in the finishing compound like I have had with other manufacturers products. It seems to last longer after opening too. The finishing filler above is over 4 years old, needed stirring, but still good. The cream hardener doesn't last more than a year tops. Old hardener is questionable, looks OK, but never hardens.
I've used GALLONS of kitty hair on fiberglass / plastic bathtub surrounds which needed repairs. Sometimes from improper gel-coat layup at the factory, producing a thin top coat with no backing which later craters, usually in the bottom corners of the tub. Kitty hair is perfect to fill in the missing support structure, then a finish coat of body filler. Spray epoxy primer, then top coat. Poof! perfect again. Matching the color is the hard part. LOL
I find EverCoat finishing glaze to be extra creamy and smooth. Ha, sounds like a commercial for a non-dairy toast spread.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
The U-Pol Fibral lite is comparable to "Kitty Hair" by EverCoat. They are a fiberglass resin (type) of filler with chopped up (short) strands of fiberglass embedded in the resin. They also make a (long) strand . Their purpose is to provide a support structure and the strength to support the finish filler. The product I pictured above is an ultra smooth "finish" coat of body filler.
Direct answer to your question; Yes, but I prefer EverCoat's products. Just what I prefer, doesn't mean their better. I like the EverCoat line because of it's high quality, the stuff is not cheap. But, I never get air bubbles or pin holes in the finishing compound like I have had with other manufacturers products. It seems to last longer after opening too. The finishing filler above is over 4 years old, needed stirring, but still good. The cream hardener doesn't last more than a year tops. Old hardener is questionable, looks OK, but never hardens.
I've used GALLONS of kitty hair on fiberglass / plastic bathtub surrounds which needed repairs. Sometimes from improper gel-coat layup at the factory, producing a thin top coat with no backing which later craters, usually in the bottom corners of the tub. Kitty hair is perfect to fill in the missing support structure, then a finish coat of body filler. Spray epoxy primer, then top coat. Poof! perfect again. Matching the color is the hard part. LOL
I find EverCoat finishing glaze to be extra creamy and smooth. Ha, sounds like a commercial for a non-dairy toast spread.
Ron

Thanks for the info Ron ..... I had a body shop recommend the Fibral when I told them I was not too happy with regular bondo when I was building my Jensen's (which are painted). I found it to go on a lot smoother and give me more working time as well. Sounds like the EverCoat your using could be even better to try on my next project which will also have a painted finish. I also don't mind spending a little extra to get better quality. I've certainly learned over the years that you get what you pay for and will hold off on a purchase to get the better tool because I know it will pay off in the long run.

[Renron]

Steve,
You do beautiful work, quality throughout and it shows.
Ron

[sdl2112]

Ron,

Like following your build...a lot of helpful hints. I learned most of my woodworking through these forums and then practice. The patch work looks great. My router decided to go it's own way on an internal dado. Not bad enough for repair but good to know of a solution.

[sdl2112]

Thanks for the info Ron ..... I had a body shop recommend the Fibral when I told them I was not too happy with regular bondo when I was building my Jensen's (which are painted). I found it to go on a lot smoother and give me more working time as well. Sounds like the EverCoat your using could be even better to try on my next project which will also have a painted finish. I also don't mind spending a little extra to get better quality. I've certainly learned over the years that you get what you pay for and will hold off on a purchase to get the better tool because I know it will pay off in the long run.

Steve...did you just reveal you are in the planning stages of a next project......curious minds...any details yet?

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
You do beautiful work, quality throughout and it shows.
Ron

Thanks Ron, very kind of you.

[Steve Manning]

Steve...did you just reveal you are in the planning stages of a next project......curious minds...any details yet?

Hey Scott,

Yes ........ and no

I am working on idea, which I've talked over with the Master and he likes the concept. I have collected a few parts, but since I'm presently out of work, it's not going to go anywhere fast until that issue gets resolved. In the mean time curious minds, as well as myself, are on hold.

[sdl2112]

Steve,

Sorry to hear about the work situation. Hope it gets resolved real soon so you can pursue that next project...among other priorities

[Renron]

Can you say Hernea?

I've been wrestling some very heavy boxes lately, I'm not sure I'm winning but I think I've got them scared.
I finished gluing up the last layer of the baffles (4), then glued the baffle to the Overbuilt speaker box. I like overbuilt.
I wanted to glue the baffle to the box before I cut the facets because it was easier to clamp the baffle with square edges.
I used a Skill worm drive saw to cut the 45* bevels. I like the look of having the same angle on the top edge as the sides. The skill saw has more than enough power to cut through the plywood layers, even on a 45*. The blade was not able to cut deep enough so I finished the cuts with a Japanese pull saw, I think it was a shark brand when I bought it years ago. (Yoda's Voice) Scary sharp those things are.
I used Bob's suggestion of a power plane to finish off the last little bit of stock removal. I cut to ~ 1/16" over of my line with the skill saw. Power planer even as old as it is, with fresh blades made easy work of the last little bit that needed to be removed.
Those with a sharp eye will see a "dutchie" that I had to make in one of the bottom facets. Bad cut, late in the day, wrong angle, wrong bevel. I learned a long time ago that it's not a mistake unless you "walk away" from it. Meaning you don't fix it and just let it alone. No harm, no foul. Nice to know I can still make a good "dutchie". ops:
Hand sanded the facets with a long board sand paper to make then perfectly flat.
I have some Sapele veneer gluing up for test finishing. I'll post pics and want your input with those.

As they say, if there's a picture on the internet, it must be true. :T

Ron

[dar47]

Excellent! Love those worm drives, used then when I was young. All steel body and heavy as sh@$%, but they push easy and don't bind. Now that you wrestled that box into submission enjoy the finishing work.:W

[meb46]

Nice work! These have really taken the forum by storm... what's the current number built or in progress??

[meb46]

So we have our DIY variants of Avalon Time and Avalon Isis... who's keen to start an Avalon Sentinel?

[meb46]

Combination of AES, Wavecor and Accuton Drivers with an internal selection of Hypex Active Amplification... any takers... anyone...?

[BobEllis]

Looking good, Ron. I'm planning to get back to veneering today. My "dutchies" are far more visible. At least (hopefully) until the veneer goes on.

meb, I'm going semi-active until Jon is released from his current project long enough to work out the padding changes for the -02 woofers. Does that count? No Hypex yet, I have a bunch of amps ready and some Pass clones in the works. Come Spring, the heat of a bunch of class A amps will probably motivate me to go Hypex, or at least back to class AB.

In addition to the originals, there are at least 4 of us building the original design or a variant (I'm doing the original and a variant) and two or three more that have announced plans to build. There are probably several more who haven't made their intentions/builds public.

[TEK]

Looking great Ron!
Now it's about to get that veneering and finishing job started... and maybe time for you to start paying with that crossover and electrical stuff. Wonder how that will go for a wood man like yourself ;-)
And if you think theese babies are heavy now - wait until you get the crossover and elements inside them!

When it comes to build I assume there are quite some.
Let's see.
Jon - Done
Dar47 - Done
Benthe8track - Done
Wayman - Done (I think, he just build them all in silence and suddently posted a picture of a perfect par in the reference thread ;-)
TEK - Done
BobEllis - Lowprise (In progress)
BobEllis - Full (In progress)
Renron - In progress
Horio - Stocking up parts ???
BigJohn - Finishing build, stocking up parts
More?

[bigjohn]

Looking great Ron!
Now it's about to get that veneering and finishing job started... and maybe time for you to start paying with that crossover and electrical stuff. Wonder how that will go for a wood man like yourself ;-)
And if you think theese babies are heavy now - wait until you get the crossover and elements inside them!

When it comes to build I assume there are quite some.
Let's see.
Jon - Done
Dar47 - Done
Benthe8track - Done
Wayman - Done (I think, he just build them all in silence and suddently posted a picture of a perfect par in the reference thread ;-)
TEK - Done
BobEllis - Lowprise (In progress)
BobEllis - Full (In progress)
Renron - In progress
Horio - Stocking up parts ???

More?

You can add me too the list as well. I am in the trying to get the cabinets finished and gathering the rest of the parts phase.

[benthe8track]

You can add me too the list as well. I am in the trying to get the cabinets finished and gathering the rest of the parts phase.

Post a build thread!

[TEK]

Looking great Ron!
Now it's about to get that veneering and finishing job started... and maybe time for you to start paying with that crossover and electrical stuff. Wonder how that will go for a wood man like yourself ;-)
And if you think theese babies are heavy now - wait until you get the crossover and elements inside them!

When it comes to build I assume there are quite some.
Let's see.
Jon - Done
Dar47 - Done
Benthe8track - Done
Wayman - Done (I think, he just build them all in silence and suddently posted a picture of a perfect par in the reference thread ;-)
TEK - Done
BobEllis - Lowprise (In progress)
BobEllis - Full (In progress)
Renron - In progress
Horio - Stocking up parts ???
BigJohn - Finishing build, stocking up parts
More?

Going to copy this into the reference thread, as I think it belong there :-)...

[Renron]

BigJohn,
Link WITH PICTURES!!!!

Please. More details......... pant, pant, pant.......
Ron

Picked up some window screen spline and some 1/2" mdf to make the grills today at the local big box store.
I have a 3/16 round bottom plow bit and I made a "fence" for the router to keep the correct distance of 1/4" from the edge. It will be harder to work with the 1613 plunge Bosch than a colt hanheld, but I had the materials on hand. And it was free. I like free. (I'm a cheap Bas*&^%$d.)
I can get some nice black (easy to blow through) material at JoAnn's fabrics too.
I've got to decide on the veneer soon. Kris's Makore is making me rethink the Sapele. They are VERY close to each other in the looks department. I'm waiting for my test pieces to dry.......
Kris, any input? Your M8TAs look outstanding. I only hope I can do as well.
Ron

[kvardas]

I like the mottled Malone veneer, though it is high in silica content and dulls the veneer saw quickly. I just purchased some fiddleback mahogany veneer for a pair or wavecor Arden's that I am going to build. i think sapele will look nice.

[Horio]

Looking great Ron!
Now it's about to get that veneering and finishing job started... and maybe time for you to start paying with that crossover and electrical stuff. Wonder how that will go for a wood man like yourself ;-)
And if you think theese babies are heavy now - wait until you get the crossover and elements inside them!

When it comes to build I assume there are quite some.
Let's see.
Jon - Done
Dar47 - Done
Benthe8track - Done
Wayman - Done (I think, he just build them all in silence and suddently posted a picture of a perfect par in the reference thread ;-)
TEK - Done
BobEllis - Lowprise (In progress)
BobEllis - Full (In progress)
Renron - In progress
Horio - Stocking up parts ???
BigJohn - Finishing build, stocking up parts
More?

I'm slowly stocking up on parts, but I won't probably dive into starting the cabinets until the spring/summer. My build is going be on the slower side.

[Renron]

Grill building

Hey y'all !
I've been busy with other things, we all know that as important speaker building is, we have to perform other tasks from time to time.

When I had time I worked on building the grills. I used 1/2" MDF as I was out of HDF. Probably better because it's lighter than HDF. Winning!
I ripped the MDF to 12" wide and set the speakers upside down on top of them. Baffle down. I used a sharp pencil and traced around the facets, then cut a strip of scrap wood 1/4" wide x 48" long. This is a trick I learned when trimming out wood case windows. Using the 1/4" scrap wood place it on the line which is the perimeter of the baffle. Draw another line on the inside of the baffle face area. Zero chances of mis-measureing and it's way faster too. Using this "stick" method you always get the exact same reveal on all edges.
I cut the inner line with a skill saw, then used a power plane to perfect it. I clamped one end of the grill on the table saw and used a Mag-Lok to prevent the other end from moving. These things are a MUST have if you have a steel table on your table saw. Quick and extremely strong, great for ripping too, keeps your fingers out of the danger area.
Once all angles of the grill were cut I placed it on top of the baffle using the 1/4" ripped stick and drilled 7 , 1/16" holes through the grill and into the baffle. Flipped the grill over and used a 3/8" Forsner bit to drill a little deeper than 1/4".
Magnets; I used 14 on each speaker. The Ebay seller said they were N50, but I think they were closer to N42. 5MM x 10MM $7 for 10. I'm happy I bought 30 total. I separated the magnets by 2. Then marked both sides that weren't stuck with a sharpie, I then marked a line down the side of them for orientation purposes, they will find the strongest fields naturally and you want them installed that way.
Epoxy will hold them just fine, plenty strong enough. Make sure you install the "backs" (the face you marked) into the wood so what was the inside is now exposed. The line on the side / edge of the magnet was used as a 12 O'clock reference when installing. This worked out perfectly. I get the grills even close to where they should be an they slide into place perfectly aligned every time. Happy, Happy, Happy.
The inside spline groove was routered with the big Bosch and is not perfect. C'est la Vie. Not terrible but not perfect either. I debated putty and reroutering.....but I just don't think it's worth the effort.
The outside edge was routered with a 1/4" round over bit, all the interior driver holes were also rounded over. It looks really nice that way. The holes are centered correctly, the photo is an optical illusion.

I need to fill the magnet holes with body putty before painting the grills black. I'll fill the holes in the baffles at the same time. I may not have needed 7 magnets, but I figure it's better safe than sorry, easy now very difficult later.

This is such a fun project!
Ron

[sdl2112]

Ron, What a whirlwind of information!...but very clear. You must be having fun. Great progress and thanks for explaining the details :T

[Renron]

SDL2112,
Thank you for the kind words. I'm really enjoying building these terrific speakers.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Going to copy this into the reference thread, as I think it belong there :-)...

It certainly does- I plan to add some of the key pics and descriptions from each of the builds into that thread, as a sort of journal in place- I'm really pleased at how many folks are enjoying this project, especially when you get to the point that you get to listen to them! The other cool thing is seeing how the members of the Ardent family are discovering how well they respond to other system upgrades- amps, source gear, etc. No surprise to me, but then, I'm the head nutcase!

BTW, it looks like a pair of the Benchmark AHB2 amps will be on the way to me next week, ultimate destination my colleague in Munich. I've also bought a pair of the SpeakOn to bananna plug cables, for testing them out in balanced bridge mode more conveniently.

Still, this weekend is another one dedicated to the move out operation. OTOH, that's helping/forcing me to re-organize in Danville, make the working spaces more effective, and that's all for the better long term.

[Renron]

Doc,
Way to find a positive in what most of us consider a massive headache.

It find it extremely satisfying that so many of the ardent builders are wiling to help others out and follow the new builders threads. What a family should be like!
Ron

[Renron]

Jon,
I'm starting my shopping list for XO parts, The tweets and woofers are the same XO, so that's easy to follow.
However, any major changes to the mid XO needed? SPL of the Accuton and SS are pretty close.
thank you and I'm sorry for asking when your so busy. ops:
Ron

[BobEllis]

Ron,

I'd hold off on the mids for now. The values are likely to be similar, but note the rising response of the C90 and roughly 1 ohm higher impedance. C8 and R4 provide some shelving to flatten the response of the C90 as well as flattening the impedance seen by the filter, and will likely be quite different.

The tweeter section should be OK, but you probably will want to be frugal and buy less expensive resistors than those specified since they might need a bit of tweaking once the mid section is settled. Once settled then upgrade them.

You really can't work the mid XO until you get in cabinet measurements of response and impedance.

[Renron]

Thanks Bob,
Great idea with the $$$ R values for the tweeter. Sometimes i miss the obvious. :huh:
Jon measured my mid earlier and thought he could "best guess" a XO from that data.
Looks like I'm going to have to learn to use the mic and measurement software I have.
It's too cold in the garage for me to start my veneering. I'm using Weldwood resin glue. I may have to make a "tent" , just depends on how patient I can be.
OTOH, it might be a good excuse to mount the drivers and give them a test run, when XOs are built, and tweak from there.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Jon's best guess is probably a lot better than most commercial designs. But you'll have put in enough effort into the build that you should measure and tweak a couple of iterations. That way you know you've wrung every bit of performance out of the drivers.

Hear you about cold temps. I'm mixing epoxy in the spare bedroom...

[Renron]

Epoxy Ellis.........

[Renron]

Quick update;
I'm sicker than a dog. Sore throat, coughing up smurfs to fill a village. Yuck!
I was able to apply body putty on the grills over the holes and magnets last week. Sanded smooth today and brushed on a thick coat of SealCoat de-waxed shellac from Bullseye. I've purchased some water based black paint with a satin finish to paint the grills when the weather warms a bit and I feel better. Cough. I used the shellac to seal the MDF so it won't expand when a waterbased paint is applied. I plan on spraying multiple coats. It will be a good opportunity to test out my new spray gun. Warwick LVLP 1.4 tip. Should be fun, the gun has a good reputation with the Pro auto painter crowd.

I've also finished testing my finishing schedule for the veneer. The right hand side of the veneer has a coat of Boiled Linseed Oil applied after sanding to 220. It darkened the veneer a slight bit and it does not seem to improve the chatoyance, so it won't be used in the final schedule. One less thing to go wrong. Sometimes simpler is Better!
Sand to 220, one light coat of De-waxed shellac, 3 coats of Aquacoat grain filler, and three or more coats of Arm-R-Seal from General Finishes. I tried their best water based (Enduro-Var) with the same finishing schedule, but it came out lifeless, not ugly, but lifeless. So Oil Based top coat it is! too bad, I really prefer to use water based when possible, easier to clean up.
Ron

[BobEllis]

That's gorgeous, Ron.

The coughing up Smurfs thing was on this coast a couple weeks ago. Hope it's not the same thing - mine lasted a week until I felt decent, but another 10 days to feel right. Get well soon.

[dar47]

I see I'm not the only one using a table saw as a work bench, haha. That's a pretty powerful grain and see how it just needs a clear finish to give some depth.:T I used the linseed trick in the form of Minwax's clear stain on my cherry and it does deepen and even out the grain a bit on cherry. Hang in there through the bug we had it up here too and probably sent down with the Arctic air to you poor folks. :E

[sdl2112]

Ron, that veneer has so much depth :E. You are using two of my favorite products...De-waxed shellac and Arm-R-Seal from General Finishes. Are you applying the shellac full strength or diluted...on the MDF and the veneer. It works wonders on stabilizing and sealing the MDF.

[benthe8track]

Ron that looks unreal!! I wish I could have pulled off a finish like that and can't wait to see the finished product.

[Renron]

Thanks for the kind words and well wishes.
The shellac is full strength, light coat on the veneer and heavy coat on the MDF. De waxed shellac is my go to savior for grain visible finishes. It only let me down once, and it was my fault. I applied it too thick and it crazed the black paint on top. Had to sand it off and start again. It was also snowing...... STRIKE 2....... tried to rush the finish for a Christmas present.............STRIKE 3! Yer 'out! It did turn out OK in the end, but it was a lot more work than necessary. Patience is a learned sport.
Ron

[Renron]

Not much for updates recently, I ordered my Sapele Pommele Veneer from JoeWoodworker last week and it arrived today. That is some beautiful stuff. Extremely high quality. Two thumbs up to JWW. I also purchased some Cold Press Veneer glue in medium brown for the facets. I'm going to use Urea glue for the larger pieces when it warms up. The glue won't harden unless it's at least 70* F. Bummer, it's going to be a while until then. That's OK though, I'm in no rush to finish these speakers.

On a VERY positive note; I found the deal of the year at Home Depot / Lowe's
They have a Bosch Colt palm router with guide/ variable speed and case for $80 !!! I've wanted a Colt but didn't want to spend that much. On top of that, I took HD online printout sales ad to Lowe's and they matched the price PLUS 10% !!! Holly Cow. I walked out with a brand new Palm Router for $76 and some change !!!
Santa the tool man Clause came early to my house. Happy, Happy, Happy.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Nice find. If only I hadn't just bought my vacuum bag system...

[Renron]

I've almost finished the bases, Wood work is completed. I'm just waiting on the thin ABS plastic to "skin" the base. This will help prevent any damage when the vacuum smacks into the base of the speaker. ABS is very tough stuff and almost bullet proof.
Being a cheap SOB, I checked out the prices for a rubber base gasket, and did not want to pay $15+ per speaker for a sheet of rubber I was going to cut up anyway. I didn't want to use strips like window or door sealant because they always leak at the corners. I had recently gone to Michael's Crafts store to buy a foam sheet to be cut into a new turntable mat. Always trying something different, it's a disease most of us have. I thought the foam would be perfect for the gasket too, so I went back and purchased a couple of black ones to try out. Guess what? They were PERFECT! The down side is they cost me a total of $2.15 for both. What the heck, it's only money! I splurged and bought 2. They are a 1 mm closed cell rubber type foam that feels exactly like a speaker gasket provided by a manufacturer. Here are the pictures.

Edit; I may try a can of spray on Truck bed liner instead of the thin ABS sheet. Would be much easier. Any thoughts?

[TEK]

That's looking good Ron.
You are going for Jon's variant with the crossover in the socket?

BTW: Really nice corner cut's on that base!