Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

[dar47]

Ron,
Very nice crib brought back memories, I made a change table for the kids out of alder. It was a popular kitchen cabinet material back in the 80's. cab is coming along nice.:T

[Renron]

I've got the mid cabinet section lined with 1/4" Felt with 2" open cell foam on top of that. Random sections removed to control various frequencies. (at least that was the thought)

But what I wanted to show others is that brace circled in Red which I had to add to straighten out the side.
I had cut all the pieces to a rough size a few months ago. My (rookie) mistake was not laying them down flat on the garage floor, I had them standing up, stacked tightly against each other, leaning on the wall. When I put a straight edge on the cabinet it was off by 1/16"+ . It has a "bannana". Not really too bad but I thought I could / would help others out so they don't make the same mistake. Lay them flat and use lots of stickers underneath.

BB plywood sides are being glued up as I type this. Both speakers will be be glued up by the end of today. I'm making progress but I'm nowhere as fast or as productive as Bob.
Ron

[BobEllis]

At least you noticed before glue up. I have one cabinet that tapers 3/32". It's going to make trimming the baffle to fit interesting. I think it's a job for a power plane 1/64" at a time.

[JonMarsh]

At least you noticed before glue up. I have one cabinet that tapers 3/32". It's going to make trimming the baffle to fit interesting. I think it's a job for a power plane 1/64" at a time.

Yeah, slow and easy, measure twice or thrice, trim and check... :T

[Renron]

The Lord is my Sheppard, and the framing square my companion.

[dar47]

Ya I made standoff when gluing to keep everything lined up even with 4 hands it helped, of course ours were glued right away. After the baffle is glued and clamped you can side the out.:T

Is the mid chamber totally full of foam or is that an optical illusion? Usually just an 1" or 2" on all side except the back of the baffle. You will need room for drivers and I not sure if foam acts the same as stuffing with say a fiber fill. Maybe Jon or others can confer how much is appropriate?

[Renron]

My driver sits almost entirely within the baffle. But the 2" foam is about 3/4" back from where the baffle sits on the walls.
The Scanspeak is not a very deep driver.
Good question for Doc!
How much "free air space" does a driver need? The foam is open cell and is easy to blow through. I could pop out more cubes if needed.
Doc?

[JonMarsh]

as long as the foam isn"t compressed with the driver installed you should be good...

[Renron]

A little bit of progress today,
I've added the base support for the bottom of the cabinet and replaced the brace I had with 1/2" dowels epoxied in place. The cabinet is now within 1/32 on each side of being //.

I took a clue from Bob and weighed one of the twins.
She weighed in at a very svelte 60.5 lbs. With out the baffles, or bottoms! Yowsa. 8O I'm going to need a crane to place these in the living room when finished.
Mine are heavier because I've lined the mid chamber with lead and I've added an extra 1/2" MDF / HDF to the top of the speaker. I did this to overlap the joints and ensure a very good seal on the tops. I've also cut the sides deeper so there is no visible seam/joint on the sides to telegraph through the veneer.
I've received a sample of the Sapele Pomelle, now I have to mount it on a test board so I can test different finishing schedules. That stuff is gorgeous!
I've layed out the baffles for the endless holes that need to be cut. Not looking forward to that......now where did I put my hearing protection???

Ron

[dar47]

See a man with some tools and talent can equal and cnc machine.:T

They look very square and tight, give us some good shots of your baffle build. I wish I could build 1 more set manually just for the challenge, then again I wish I could build another set with the cnc just to see how tight of a tolerance I could get second time around, haha.

[TEK]

Looking very nice Ron.
There is one thing with this build that I dont quite get when it comes to the original design.
While not make a dado joint between the baffel and the box?
I did not do that on mine eithere - but I was for sure thinking about it, but not before after making the sides so I skipped it. I did it on my subs to ensure a tight seal.

What finish are you considering?

[dar47]

Tec , dadoing the front baffle is not a good idea as you be creating a constrained front baffle which doesn't allow the large front surface to expand and contract. Did it on a smaller build and I developed cracks. The most important element was joining the bracing into the baffle and that was done.

[TEK]

Tec , dadoing the front baffle is not a good idea as you be creating a constrained front baffle which doesn't allow the large front surface to expand and contract. Did it on a smaller build and I developed cracks. The most important element was joining the bracing into the baffle and that was done.

If that is the case, will not gluing the baffle to the sides make an equal amount of stress - and thereby also cause the same issue?
To avoid a problems caused by contraction and expansion of the front baffle vs. the rest of the speaker I would imagine that you would have to have a front baffle that was separated from the box. For example that was screwed on with a seal between the box and the baffle, and not one that is jointed with the box as you do when you glue it on.
Many other speakers does indeed have a separated front baffle - but that would of course have to be considered in the design. Such a design is of course not not suited for a "avalon looking" speaker.
For a real wood baffle that is for sure something that would have to be taken into account, but for produced wood like MDF, BB and Bambo sheets I would assume that this would not be much of a problem.
When you experienced cracks - was it with MDF/BB or with a real wood baffle?


NB: I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the design, mine for sure is sealed without dado joints.
First I was just curious to why. That has been answered.
Now I'm just curious about how this works and what's important to consider, as well as trying to understand and learn more.

[dar47]

Sure I see all good questions and this is just my take. If you had minimum bracing and you needed the dodo on the outside to act as a brace as I did with a monitor build then the dodo is serving a purpose. The dodo only helps locking and enabling a easy squaring of the sides to top and bottom. With a glued surface there can be movement but wood on wood tight allows for no movement. If you wanted to inset the baffle to the side for a look then I would still allow a gap between the baffle dado and cab. I ended up doing this on my maple Modula's and had no more movement issues. In the Ardents design case I don't see a structural gain to be had and we needed all of the baffle thickness for the facets so insetting would require an even thicker baffle.

being an old guy I discover that a dove tailed drawer box will crack with the forces on the joint but I have made butt joined bisect drawers that are perfect after 20 years, not all those fancy joints are always needed.:W

[Renron]

Thanks for the complements, great conversation Dar & Tek. I enjoy this type of discussion. Makes my brain work......even when it doesn't want to. Isn't getting old fun? 60 'sumptin.

Baffles are still being thought about. I'm waiting for that moment of inspiration....:Z
That comment from Bob about a power planer sure makes a lot of sense. Easier too. Get it close with a table saw and sneak up on it with the power planer. Mine is so old the insulation on the cord dried out and split for most of it's length. :rofl:
Ron

[BobEllis]

I won't bother getting out the table saw for my next facets. Just the planer will be faster and easier.

[CraigJ]

Hi Bob,

I'd actually like to see a video of you planing your facets because it seems intimidating to me. Kind of like using a chain saw without a guide.....or something like that.

Love your builds, including Ron's. Currently working on one of Jon's dipole builds. Thinking of using pvc, not bamboo....don't tell Jon.

[Renron]

Bob, seems like a whole lot of material to remove with just an electric planer. I do like the idea of using a planer thou.

Chain saws have guards? I've been using it wrong all these years...

The first time I saw an electric chain saw on a job it was being used to remove cherry cabinets from a kitchen we had just installed. 4 story house w/ elevator, overlooking Lake Tahoe. Owner changed his mind on the location of the microwave oven. OK, no problem...... I'll get the finish chainsaw. Almost cried.

[BobEllis]

Ron, the recut took about 3 minutes to remove almost 1/2" of bamboo. The first part can go faster if you cut more aggressively. I spent a lot more time than that just setting up the jig on the table saw.

Craig, I'll try to get a video next time I do one, but it's really just like jointing an edge. Take a shallow cut, maybe 1/32" and just keep going over it. Check after you have a face to be sure that you're planing down to the lines evenly. All but the first 1/2" or so is guided by the sole of the plane, so it goes straight. If you rock forward and ride on the infeed side too it will cut more aggressively and be subject to the whims of your ability to move the plane in a straight line. Just let the sole do the guide work. It's awfully similar to using a manual plane, but faster.

[Renron]

OK Bob, you've convinced me to go this route for the facets. Guess I"ll have to sharpen those planer "knives".
Ron

[TEK]

I used a planer on my one of my subs and it worked great.
It's preferable to have some way of tilting the speaker si that you can cut flat and not have to hold the planer on the side.

[Steve Manning]

Even with just a regular hand plane you can get very crisp bevels with a little sweat ....... I made this computer desk and the bevels on both the top and main shelf were done with a hand plane (the light wood is hard maple). I can imagine a powered plane would make real quick work of the process.

[BobEllis]

Is this going to become a show off fine woodworking skills thread? Nice piece, Steve.

[Steve Manning]

Is this going to become a show off fine woodworking skills thread? Nice piece, Steve.

Certainly Bob .... with your cabinets leading the charge Just wanted to show that you don't even need powered tools to get the job done and to get the results you want. I think I've seen on Troels site that he use a plane to do all of his bevels.

[kvardas]

i created the facets on my pair of m8tas in this manner. Marked the three points of the facets, adhered two pieces of aluminum flatbar, cut the bevel with a hand saw, powered planed to within an eight of an inch of the line, and then used a Stanley 7 plane to get flush with the lines. Worked well.

[Renron]

Steve, what type of finish did you use on that beautiful computer desk?, very nice work.

Kvardas, Thanks for you insights and experience, Sounds like a Power Planer is the "hot ticket".

Ron

[Steve Manning]

Steve, what type of finish did you use on that beautiful computer desk?, very nice work.

Kvardas, Thanks for you insights and experience, Sounds like a Power Planer is the "hot ticket".

Ron

Thanks Ron ...... I used this https://generalfinishes.com/retail-p...t#.Vh1BuCtNjng in semi - gloss. I put down a couple of coats of shellac first as a sealer and to help fix some tear out issues I had. I then wiped on 3 coats if the Arm-R-Seal with a lite sand between coats.

[Renron]

is 27 enough? NO

One can never have too many clamps. I've got three layers glued up and will router the top baffles tomorrow, if the wifee lets me. She hates the sound and always gives me crepe about it.
In case I f up the router job I want to be able to remake the baffle easily so only 3 baffles glued today.
As required by law; here is the requisite photo of all the clamps on the baffle. :T

[BobEllis]

That's quite a collection of clamps.

[dar47]

Haha it's nice to have a good collection and good to see you at the exciting part of the build. Ben and I were in a rented space with -35 deg. C. temps outside when we were assembling the 8 baffles we did and I was worried we would have to pay more rent so I made another trip to Lee Valley and pick up another 15 clamps. So ya money spent on clamps is money in the bank.:T

[JonMarsh]

One can never have too many clamps. I've got three layers glued up and will router the top baffles tomorrow, if the wifee lets me. She hates the sound and always gives me crepe about it.
In case I f up the router job I want to be able to remake the baffle easily so only 3 baffles glued today.
As required by law; here is the requisite photo of all the clamps on the baffle. :T

well, you've definitely complied with the law for sufficient quantity of clamps, though I think maybe you went a little overboard in the variety of clamps... but any clamp is better than no clamp, that's for sure!

[JonMarsh]

Even with just a regular hand plane you can get very crisp bevels with a little sweat ....... I made this computer desk and the bevels on both the top and main shelf were done with a hand plane (the light wood is hard maple). I can imagine a powered plane would make real quick work of the process.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24602[/ATTACH]

This spoken by one of our premier woodworkers, who makes a task like this sound like a trivial brief exercise.... Hah! ;zx

[Steve Manning]

This spoken by one of our premier woodworkers, who makes a task like this sound like a trivial brief exercise.... Hah! ;zx

With the skills I've seen out of you guys ....... if I can pull it off, I know you can. Thanks for the vote of confidence though, and trust me the exercise is usually not brief by the time I get finished with practice pieces and standing in the garage staring off into space, trying to figure the process out ...... but I believe your fond of saying something about slow work taking time

[Steve Manning]

One can never have too many clamps. I've got three layers glued up and will router the top baffles tomorrow, if the wifee lets me. She hates the sound and always gives me crepe about it.
In case I f up the router job I want to be able to remake the baffle easily so only 3 baffles glued today.
As required by law; here is the requisite photo of all the clamps on the baffle. :T

There's got to room for at least one more somewhere? ....... looking good Ron

[Renron]

Thanks all,
A little clamp humor is always a stress reliever. I've accumulated that variety of clamps over a LONG period of time. Some were my fathers and I'm proud to use the old dogs.

Something others might be able to use in the future. I made this drum sander from a scrap piece of 2" dowel I had laying around just waiting to be of use. I cut it just over 4" and drilled out the center to accommodate a 1/4" all thread about 5" in length. Washers and aircraft (nylon) locking nuts on both ends. I had ripped a 50 grit 4x24 belt sander belt and kept it for just this kind of use. Locktite commercial strength spray adhesive to hold the paper in place and BLAM, almost instant drum sander. Not perfect like a router with a Jasper Circle Jig would be but much easier. Plus......My Jasper Jig isn't large enough to do the Woofers !:banghead: I like Amazon . Com....... ordered larger Jasper Jig.
At the risk of showing how terrible I am at cutting circles with a jig saw, here are a couple of before and after pictures.
This tool worked great in a corded drill as well as the drill press.

Ron

[TEK]

Ron, how do you plan to make the outer-cut for exact driver fit when you have cut the center hole away first?

For a router jig I would recommend that you build this before buying a jasper jig. I build this one and I think it works wonderfully. It's a great jig with very nice precision

https://www.ibuildit.ca/Workshop%20Projects/Jigs/circle-jig-1.html

I'm sure you are able to make this in no time.

[Renron]

Tek,
Excellent jig you made. Thank you for the link.
Those 3 ply that are glued are the bottom 3 of the 4 baffles. Top one is being made separately in case I make a mistake with the router. (hey, it happens)
I've cut the square out for the possibility of a C79 for future upgrades, and it adds volume to the mid cabinet too. Win - Win.
Thanks for keeping and eye out for me making mistakes, I've been able to correct the ones I've made, .... so far.
Ron

[Renron]

Out of the home area right now,
Here is a photo of the GIANT MDF factory close to where I am staying. It's really much larger than it looks. I asked for a tour of the plant. Nope, "safety" reasons.
I must look like a corporate spy or something.........:E

[TEK]

Looks like you have everything under control Ron, as expected :-)

For the factory:
Woo - that's some hefty pipes...
Assume that means you get some great prices on MDF then ;-)

[Renron]

Just in case I made a mistake....

Did I speak too soon? or was I able to see into the future???? Muuuhhaaahhaaaa.....
Na, I just moved the router before I released the plunge lever. It could have been worse, and the veneer will cover the bondo I use as a repair material. I used the extra smooth evercoat brand. I personally don't like the bondo brand of fillers. Application with a safety razor blade makes smoothing out the filler easy.
Before and after pictures.
All holes are now routered, glue up the baffles tomorrow after I clean the gutters before the rains come.
I'm still disappointed they wouldn't give me a tour of the MDF factory. :M
Ron

[TEK]

Nice save Ron.

The regular wood filler/sparkel I'm used with shrinks a lot, especially when laying it on thick, making it hard to fix larger mistakes like the one you have there.
Seems as the filler you got don't shrink, so that should be just fine.

[BobEllis]

Glad I'm not the only one making mistakes.

[Renron]

In one of my many different jobs in the past, I restored antique claw foot bathtubs. (Where I learned paint and HVLP) I've tried many different brands of (body) fillers and the BEST by far was Evercoat. Minimal shrinkage if any, sands smooth and easy, takes a coat of paint well (not like a sponge). Good stuff. Only problem was the cream hardener, after about a year it goes bad. Can of Evercoat lasts many , many years thou.

No Bob, your not alone. Right Tek? LOL
Ron

[TEK]

If you don't do mistankes you don't challanges yourself enought, and ergo you don't learn as much new stuff as you could!
Ergo - mistankes are good for you :-)

[benthe8track]

In one of my many different jobs in the past, I restored antique claw foot bathtubs. (Where I learned paint and HVLP) I've tried many different brands of (body) fillers and the BEST by far was Evercoat. Minimal shrinkage if any, sands smooth and easy, takes a coat of paint well (not like a sponge). Good stuff. Only problem was the cream hardener, after about a year it goes bad. Can of Evercoat lasts many , many years thou.

No Bob, your not alone. Right Tek? LOL
Ron

Heh, I had to use a bit of Evercoat after my boxes came out with a touch of parallelogram effect. I used it between the Baltic and the hardboard on the sides with epoxy and it came out perfect. A pain in the ass without a cheese grader though.