Jensen 1071 Build

[theSven]

Fast forward some years later and you finally got that CNC Steve Manning :-)

[theSven]

Early garage photos before SMJ Audio was started...

[Steve Manning]

Love those Modula's, that was a labor of love. :T

I thought of a CNC machine too for retirement but you need to have a bed at least 4'x6' to be practical and they take a lot of floor space. If you can make some money with it and have the floor space it sure would be a nice toy. Prices are only going to drop as more machines hit the market though. If you do a kit build, build the best frame possible that's where most people cheap out and get long term headaches.

Thanks on the Modula's ...... all the work in the end was worth it. I also learned a few what not to do's on that project as well!

Your right about the space requirements on the CNC, where we live at the moment I simply don't have the room in my garage to put something that big. I already have most of my other tools on wheels and have to move things in and out as a new process is required, comes with having to share the space with the rest of life's stuff. Maybe one day though ......

[dar47]

Love those Modula's, that was a labor of love. :T

I thought of a CNC machine too for retirement but you need to have a bed at least 4'x6' to be practical and they take a lot of floor space. If you can make some money with it and have the floor space it sure would be a nice toy. Prices are only going to drop as more machines hit the market though. If you do a kit build, build the best frame possible that's where most people cheap out and get long term headaches.

[Steve Manning]

I will have to say I agree with you both, 5th & Dar47 on the build and the concept of DIY in general, especially the idea of having to be creative when you don't have the big fancy tools and as a result, what you end up learning along the way. Though I will say Dar47, when I built my Modula MTM's, I very much wish I had a CNC router after cutting and routing all the required lamination's by hand. Actually building my own CNC router is on my wish list so I can get some more accurate cabinet builds down the road, we'll have to wait and see.

[jim1961]

Edit - I almost forgot to say, that I too sit with my speakers in a more equilateral triangle, rather than sitting further away and often surprise myself at the presentation. As my room isn't all that big the thing that gets me, is if I listen with my eyes shut it can sound as if I am somewhere much larger than I actually am and then I open my eyes after the CD finishes and I almost take a step back when I see how close the speakers actually are. A lot of the time you will see hifi magazines saying, I had the speakers ~3 meters apart and I listened at ~6 meters away, it makes me feel that I am sometimes doing it 'wrong' as per say, but getting the speakers further apart and sitting somewhat closer can be very enjoyable too.

Psycho-acoustically speaking, the room size is perceived by the delay of the first significant reflection.

Imagine being blindfolded in a room of unknown size. A second person starts a conversation. Your hearing sense is going to fixate on how long the time arrival delay is from the nearest wall vs that of of the direct path of the person talking.

I said this to say that the longer that first significant reflection delay is, the bigger the room will seem from a hearing point of view. This is an additional benefit in attenuating 1st reflection points when one acoustically treats the room. They are the earliest arriving substantial reflections.

To put this another way, if you can delay the first significant reflection to 25ms lets say, that translates to a path length of 28'.



On a ETC, it would look something like this.

Just pointing out how one can make a room sound much bigger than it actually is.

[dar47]

I'm with you 5th, although we employed CNC for the Ardents especially to save time, we had to learn on the fly and still do a lot hand work. I like to think it's true DIY when anyone with moderate skills and big determination can duplicate the design. This is an example of per production, I could not do this without access to that production shop and even if I did, it looks like you need years training. Very nice result though.

[5th element]

From what I recall, Linkwitz has two listening seats so to speak. One in an elongated triangle, at a long listening distance and one in a more equilateral, closer, listening distance setup.

[Steve Manning]

This is listening in what I would call a quasi-nearfield mode- you're close enough that the amplitude and level tends to over come the room contributions. This is how professional monitoring tends to be setup. You can get similar clarity and transmission of the recording gestalt in a more far-field situation, but then you MUST spend a lot of time sorting out the room acoustic and minimizing early reflections and comb filtering in the listening position response.

Your right about the playing around part. I've spent some time moving the listening seat and changing the speaker positions and angles and it does not take much to hear a difference. Until I put some treatments in place I think I'm going to live with what I have at the moment, which is certainly better than what I had.

[JonMarsh]

This is listening in what I would call a quasi-nearfield mode- you're close enough that the amplitude and level tends to over come the room contributions. This is how professional monitoring tends to be setup. You can get similar clarity and transmission of the recording gestalt in a more far-field situation, but then you MUST spend a lot of time sorting out the room acoustic and minimizing early reflections and comb filtering in the listening position response.

[Steve Manning]

Edit - I almost forgot to say, that I too sit with my speakers in a more equilateral triangle, rather than sitting further away and often surprise myself at the presentation. As my room isn't all that big the thing that gets me, is if I listen with my eyes shut it can sound as if I am somewhere much larger than I actually am and then I open my eyes after the CD finishes and I almost take a step back when I see how close the speakers actually are. A lot of the time you will see hifi magazines saying, I had the speakers ~3 meters apart and I listened at ~6 meters away, it makes me feel that I am sometimes doing it 'wrong' as per say, but getting the speakers further apart and sitting somewhat closer can be very enjoyable too.

That's what I've done as well with the equilateral triangle, though I'm at at ~2 meters on a side. It has certainly changed things for the better. Even my wife was amazed at the change and she is not into this stuff at all.

[5th element]

Hmm I dunno they are impressive, but there's something about them that just isn't ya know? They kinda feel more like a pre production trial due to the massive amount of tooling they've got access to. It's like half of the DIY aspect, to me at least, is figuring out how you're going to do everything and making it work. That looks like they programmed a file into a machine and bobs your uncle, Ikea construction afterwards. Now yes, that's a gross exaggeration, but it's not far off.

I mean it's almost like a NASA/Aerospace engineer + their machine shop decided they wanted to clone B&W speakers, so they buy all the B&W parts from B&W and make a cabinet with their CAD equipment. There's not even one measurement in sight either.

I kind of find the work that I see around here, by the good people of these forums, more impressive than that, at least in terms of seeing how a person has done something clever with a rather simple set of tools to end up with something that is much larger than the sum of it's parts. That B&W clone is like a predictable start with a predictable finish. Seeing you guys sawing facets with hand held circular saws, in hand made guides is inspiring to others and educational in helping others see how they too can do things. That B&W clone thread isn't really >.<

Maybe I am being too harsh and selling the person who made them short, but to me DIY is doing stuff without having access to all that kind of equipment. (I mean sure we'd all like to have access to it too, but it isn't anywhere near as impressive.)

Edit - I almost forgot to say, that I too sit with my speakers in a more equilateral triangle, rather than sitting further away and often surprise myself at the presentation. As my room isn't all that big the thing that gets me, is if I listen with my eyes shut it can sound as if I am somewhere much larger than I actually am and then I open my eyes after the CD finishes and I almost take a step back when I see how close the speakers actually are. A lot of the time you will see hifi magazines saying, I had the speakers ~3 meters apart and I listened at ~6 meters away, it makes me feel that I am sometimes doing it 'wrong' as per say, but getting the speakers further apart and sitting somewhat closer can be very enjoyable too.

[Steve Manning]

Hey Jon, I found someone we can both fight ourselves over! I found this yesterday, B&W Clone. Talk about attention to detail on steroids !!! . Not to mention apparently having access to a rather nice machine shop, among other things. I think this is probably the best looking set of DIY speakers I have ever seen. Steve

[Steve Manning]

But you know, in looking over your construction and attention to detail, I keep having to fight with myself, because given my meager skills I'm hardly worthy to be posting on the same forum! Hat's off again to the work you did on these!

Thanks Jon ...... but your skills are far from meager !! Your projects look pretty sweet to me, especially the ones your finishing up now :T

[JonMarsh]

Can't wait to hear what you ended up doing, Steve. But you know, in looking over your construction and attention to detail, I keep having to fight with myself, because given my meager skills I'm hardly worthy to be posting on the same forum! Hat's off again to the work you did on these!

[Steve Manning]

Little Update ..... Room Acoustics, continued.

I got rid of the very large and heavy couch and replaced the rather large computer desk with a new one that I built specifically for the room. I also rotated the setup 90 degrees in the room and set the system up on the long wall (such that it is). The plan was to add some room treatments (bass traps, reflection points, etc.) but that is on hold due to being laid off at the moment. Here is the new lay out:












Even without acoustic treatments the change is very noticeable. Giving the speakers more room to breath and having them further out into the room and further apart really improved staging and imaging considerably. I setup the listening seat such that first reflections arrive after the incident sound which I think has helped until I can add some treatments at the first reflection points.

[Steve Manning]

Little Update ..... Room Acoustics

I wanted to do a little update ...... not so much on the speakers themselves, but on a side project that got them sounding considerably better. My listening room/living room/computer room, you get the idea, is less than ideal acoustically shall we say. It is more or less square, 13' X 11' with a large opening to the left of where my speakers sat, and was rather crammed with furniture. Here are a few pictures of what it looked like when I first set up the 1071's:









As one would expect imaging and staging where less than optimal and shifted to one side. I went about removing and replacing what was in the room.

[kbzx35]

Just what I wanted to hear! glad you're enjoying them! I was a little worried as the 9900 revelators can be very forward, but by your impressions it looks like troels did a great job of taking care of that! BTW if you wouldn't mind PM'ing me where you purchased your crossover parts from, I'd greatly appreciate it! Once again, glad to hear that you are definitely enjoying the fruits of your labor!

[Steve Manning]

Status update? How are you enjoying them Steve?

Hey kbzx35 ...... I always love the mystery user names ....... Sorry to have taken so long to respond, have family in town and a few other things going on at the moment. As for the speakers, I'm enjoying them more each time I listen to them, especially the fact that it's more of a full range speaker than my MTM 1's, having that lower end filling things in makes a difference.

These things are very smooth and detailed without being harsh at all, I have always been a fan of silk tweeters for that very reason. The other night I listened to the majority of Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds "Live at Radio City" which is a very well engineered 2 cd set, with no listening fatigue at all. I just wanted to keep listening but had to meet my wife and some friends for dinner, a very nice listening session.

There are a couple of things I'd like to look at to get the best out of the new speakers ........ At present I'm looking at trying to improve my room acoustics, I have no treatments in place and the open wall on the left side does little for an "optimal" listening environment. After that I'd like to look at getting a better DAC and then see how these sound. Tweak, tweak, tweak ...... your never done all part of the hobby/fun.

Steve

[kbzx35]

Status update? How are you enjoying them Steve?

[Steve Manning]

Those turned out great Steve, very professional :T Now you have to submit pics to Troels :W

Thanks Scott ...... Sent some stuff to Troels earlier today, he just sent me an email and he already has it posted on his site.

[craigk]

well I got side tracked a little. spent this spring in south Africa, invited to several fishing tournaments that (started in early feb.), first spanish mackerel in southern mozambique, then barracuda in northern mozambique, and then the two oceans tuna fishing classic in port Elizabeth. when I got back april I decided to fininsh a mym focal w4252 audiom td5 speaker. so I will get started soon, I think. will send some pic's of the mtm, turned out very nice.

[Steve Manning]

Steve,

glad that you are finished and you have a wonderful pair of speakers. I am sure they sound like the band is right there in the room with you, or maybe in the next room with you :P. it seems like years ago when we were talking about this build and where to buy drivers. have to add that I was not sure about the grey/wood combo. I was wrong, looks like some high end speaker in a boutique setting. very nice work from start to finish. good job.

craig

ps, if you want to hear them do the sound stage thing to the max, go buy roger waters amused to death. recorded in q sound. now this is a sound stage demo.

Thanks Craig ....... I think what makes the color combo work is the nice grain structure in the wood, more than just the color itself. I'll have to check into the album, it sounds interesting. So how's your build going? Love to see some pics!

Steve

[craigk]

Steve,

glad that you are finished and you have a wonderful pair of speakers. I am sure they sound like the band is right there in the room with you, or maybe in the next room with you :P. it seems like years ago when we were talking about this build and where to buy drivers. have to add that I was not sure about the grey/wood combo. I was wrong, looks like some high end speaker in a boutique setting. very nice work from start to finish. good job.

craig

ps, if you want to hear them do the sound stage thing to the max, go buy roger waters amused to death. recorded in q sound. now this is a sound stage demo.

[Steve Manning]

I thought I would share a minor comment about the width of the sound stage of the new speakers. I sat for a couple of hours yesterday after work and did some listening and had a "WTF" moment that was rather amusing. One of our cats likes to sit on the couch with me when ever I listen to music, not sure why but she is rather likes sitting and listening with me. Anyway ...... I had just selected "Fly Like an Eagle" from the Les Paul & Friends album. I had forgotten that at the very beginning a very young Steve Miller is off stage running around and singing with Les Paul talking center stage. When this all started I heard this singing and commotion coming from way outside of the room and thought someone was out in my kitchen. My cat then jumps up and runs to our entry way thinking more or less the same thing. After we both realize that no one is actually there, (the music is starting at this point) she walks around the left speaker still looking for some one to blame for the disruption. She finally gives up and returns to the couch to her warm spot, more or less happy. Bottom line, besides being rather amusing, these things have a rather wide sound stage!

[kbzx35]

Thanks Steve! Really love the honesty in your review and I agree that once you already have a solid platform, performance is only incremental while cost is exponential. However, its those little boosts in performance that makes us (the pursuers of great sound/music/technology) grin ear to ear and see the value of every benjamin spent! Very glad you enjoy them! heck, I enjoy staring at them from this side of the screen!

[Steve Manning]

Thanks all for the kind words guys, it means a lot ...... I figured I'd pass along my initial thoughts on how they sound, since apparently inquiring minds want to know ..... understandably they will change a little after they settle in with some time on them. You will have to bear with me on this, I am in no means an expert on this stuff and as such can't give you the kind of review you would find in The Absolute Sound or some other magazines.

As sort of a preface, I have been listening to Jon's Modula MTM's for the last few years, so those of you that have built them or the Natalie's can use them as a reference point, much as I am.

An additional bit of information that I have picked up, and I'm sure many of you already know, just because you spend more money on this stuff (sometimes a lot more) does not mean that it will be proportionally better in sound, such is the case here. Do these speaker sound better than my MTM's?, yes they do, though they do not blow them out of the water, nice job on their design Jon!. Being a three way they do have the extended range you would expect. I picked ~1/2 lb per cubic foot for stuffing for the bass section, and so far that seems (to my ears anyway) like a good starting point. The bass does go considerably lower with the 10" drivers and port tuning than the MTM's, it's also nice and clean and tight, which makes me happy since I tend to prefer sealed cabinets for their bass generally. I believe my comment last night was these things have some "balls".

The sound top to bottom is very balanced with nothing really sticking out as it where. They have more detailed and a more open, airy quality overall than the MTM's, those pricier components better give you something is my thought!. Initial impressions where that the sound stage was wider as well.
These things do vocals amazingly ..... I was listening to Loreena McKennitt, "The Book of Secrets" - "The Mummers Dance" when she starts singing after the initial intro, her voice just appeared out of space and I was blown away, cool stuff. Miss Norah Jones, "Come Away with Me" was pretty impressive as well.
Instrumental is also done equally well, Jacques Loussier Plays Bach -The 50th Anniversary Edition -track 11 is some killer stuff ....... thanks turning me on to this guy Jon!.
Well anyway I'm pretty happy with the sound at this point. I would really love to hear these things in a better room, mine is far less than optimal, as well as a few component tweaks (a new NAD M51 to fill in for DAC and pre-amp duties comes to mind), but it is what it is at this point.

Hope this was at least somewhat helpful for those of you that were curious.

Steve

[kbzx35]

Steve, I Noticed you went ported for the 26w section and curious to know your impressions on the sound as Troels offers porting options but for his test sample went with aperiodic venting. He claimed that it provided a nice dry sound but doesn't say much if anything about the ported sound.

[Mark_1042]

Wow, those look great Steve - that's setting the bar pretty high! Great work!

[sdl2112]

Those turned out great Steve, very professional :T Now you have to submit pics to Troels :W

[Steidl Guitars]

Fantastic. Congratulations.

[kbzx35]

Drool!!!! Steve, they look gorgeous! I can't wait to hear about your listening impressions on the new towers! Congratulations, the hard work definitely shows!

[meb46]

Awesome job Steve, great to see the effort paid off!!!

[JonMarsh]

Two thumbs up, Steve, way up! :T

Looking very nice, as expected, given all the work and care you've put into these! Do let us know what you think about the sound once you've had a chance to give them some break in and listening with a variety of material you know and like...

[Steve Manning]

With fingers crossed that the double checking of the crossovers paid off, I fired them up. Checked all of the drivers for sound, all was good, so I had a seat with my wife, a beer, and turned up the volume. Spent the next hour listening to various favorite tracks, had several goose bump moments, and deemed the last year worth of work a success.











I'll post some comments on the sound later, it's been a long day at this point, but well worth it.

[Steve Manning]

Continuing on .......

Put some stuffing in the first cabinet and dropped the drivers in place, and the first cabinet is done



Hit the repeat button and a while later I had both cabinets finished ....





The only thing left at that point was to move out the Modula MTM's and hook up the 1071's ....

[Steve Manning]

Thanks guys .... Had a very productive day .......


Getting ready to put the brains in ....



All wired up ....



Closing things up after getting the crossovers wired up .....



Making sure the feet screwed into place after painting ....

[craigk]

Steve,

looks great. I can't wait to hear how it sounds. really like the grey and bubinga, nice combo. get those things hooked up and tell us about the sound.

[cjd]

That really is a stellar combo. Nice stuff!

[Steve Manning]

Here's a few with the cabinet standing up .......











I'm pretty pleased with the overall look, especially with how the bubinga trim looks with the side cladding.

[Steve Manning]

A few shots of the trim secured in place .....






Inserted the name plate ......



This is the non - chipped cabinet ......

[Steve Manning]

Made some progress today after getting some chores done ........

Finally got the last of the excess paint removed with the woofer openings ......





Connected the speaker terminals inside of the cabinets and glued the ports into this cabinet. Then started attaching the bubinga trim ...... Used some wax paper to slide things into place to protect the paint and then removed the paper to insert the bolts from inside the crossover compartment, seemed to work pretty well ......

[sdl2112]

Steve, I had a problem with my build where the plywood veneer had voids and lifted, I didn't notice until I glued it to the cabinet...of coarse I didn't show it to you guys . It really irked me but just became part of the character of the speaker. I admire you for attempting an auto paint finish, probably one of the most difficult. Looks really good to me, can't wait to see the finished product and your thoughts of how they sound. Good luck :T

[Steve Manning]

Thanks guys for the great comments and support .....

kbzx35 ..... Just yell I'll offer what help or suggestions I can.

Mark .... you so right about focusing on the faults when you have this perfect picture in your mind. We have to keep in mind what we learn along the way and that perfection, even if it is obtainable, is rather expensive to obtain.

meb46 ..... sounds like you have a nice supportive wife like mine. Your also spot on about the DIY part, if we could all afford a paint setup and support staff like Wilson Audio, we would be all set. But we don't, so we get it as good as we can, and you right most folks will not even notice. Your also right I can't wait to get some music out of these things. I'm hoping for this weekend, but ......... we'll see.

As an FYI ...... after that nasty man gave me the idea, cjd I have talked with one of the machinists at work that has helped me on some of my projects, and he will machine what I came up with ....... think license plate frame that covers the plaque/wood joint and your there. Just need to finish a drawing and if I decide to do it, it's a go.

[meb46]

Steve, I can share your pain on the minor scrape...!

The downside with DIY is that you always know where the issues and flaws are in your product... but chances are no one will ever notice. Wise words on the forum recently... someone mentioned that one thing with DIY was to never point out your workmanship flaws or issues, chances are they are completely un-noticed. This is one piece of advice that I am taking...

On my project I made a decision to stop sanding and buffing even though I knew it could be better. Under certain light and at the right angle I can see blemishes that I know could be removed... but then I risk a rub-through or making in worse. My wife convinced me it's perfect and she doesn't notice any of the defects until I point them out in detail... then she tells me i'm imagining things... shes very supportive I think my cabinets are now at a point where 99% of people won't notice issues... and hence i'm happy.

The speakers look great, you must be itching to get them together and "makin' noise" Keep up the great work!!