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Oh, I'm sure it it will be fine. I remember. I think the way the photos are staged or my monitor is making them look fatter than they really are... no worries.
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They are pretty "fat" looking, though, by today's speakers. A lot of today's speakers are narrower.Originally posted by ---k---
I personally like wider speakers, and I like speakers that are a little more proportional all around, width vs. depth vs. height. That's not a slam on any designs out there, just my personal preference.
I hope the fact that I like wider speakers doesn't say something about me.
ops: 
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I missed this earlier.Originally posted by ---k---
You did do measurements with them only 2" apart, didn't you??? I'll need to know what they sound like when they are that close, so that you CAN tell that they are book matched.
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uh-oh...
I hadn't checked PE lately to see how the ND140 back ordering was coming along. The last that I checked, they were back ordered until 5/5/12.
Just checked today, and they are BO'ed until 6/7/12!! :E:E:E:E
I guess I have more time now to get them completed. :TComment
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I'm not upset with PE at all. I'm assuming that it's just some supply issue, but it does surprise me that it's taking this long.
I did hear recently that neo magnets are somewhat of a "commodity" now, and are in short supply at the moment. I wonder if the neo is what is holding these up???Comment
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I didn't mean to imply that I was mad at PE either... just joking around.
But in all honesty, I blame Curt Cambell. It is his dang AviaTrix that has sucked up all of the supply.
(joking)Comment
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I knew that.Originally posted by ---k---
I like that explanation too.Originally posted by ---k---...
But in all honesty, I blame Curt Cambell. It is his dang AviaTrix that has sucked up all of the supply.....
BTW,who put all of these dang pics in this thread? It takes forever to load in my phone. Flipping idiot!!!
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Yea, I blame Curt for my problem too. A bunch of AviaTrixs and no room in my house for them :WOriginally posted by ---k---But in all honesty, I blame Curt Cambell. It is his dang AviaTrix that has sucked up all of the supply.
(joking)ops:
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LOL...Originally posted by BeerPartyYea, I blame Curt for my problem too. A bunch of AviaTrixs and no room in my house for them :Wops:Comment
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Finally worked on them again...
Today I finally had a chance to get back to working on the speakers. I didn't really get much done today, but I did make some progress.
I managed to get the "accent" pieces that I'm using on my build on all of the speakers today.
Since I don't have a ton of clamps, I used screws to hold them on, and that really worked well. I'm going to need to do some type of filling on the interface between the front piece and the top piece, so I'll have some type of filler out, and filling a few more holes won't be a huge deal. But I won't need to fill the holes in the front because they are the holes that I will be using for mounting my grills.
Here's some pics of what they look like after today's work:
Single speaker:
Left and right pair:
Pluggin' a little bit at a time...Comment
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FYI: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...679#post552679
Good thing those drivers have been back ordered. CJD and I just tested my in progress TM, because something wasn't right. It looks like Vifa made a some kind of change to the tweeter. Luckily the change was pretty easy, just two resistors and they were sounding pretty good.
So, who knows which tweeter version you got. See the post above for CJD's changes. Basically, you might want to add a pair of 3ohm and 12 ohm resistors to your order. I'll post a corrected crossover in the next couple days when I get photos of my TM up.Comment
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Well, I think that's good to know. I wish there was some way that I knew for sure which version of the tweeter I had. Unfortunately, I don't have any measuring equipment at all, other than a multimeter, so there isn't really any way for me to tell, other than looking at it for a serial number, or an identifying mark of some type.Originally posted by ---k---
I think that I'll see if I can get PE to add them to the drivers when they ship. That way, if between now and then if we do figure out which version of the tweeter is which, and I NEED the different resistors, I'll have them.
I just want to make sure that I'm reading this all right, after reading the CJD post. The only change that I need is the 5ohm to a 3ohm on the tweeter side (in parallel), and the 20ohm to a 12ohm on the mid side. There is no change required to any of the caps or inductors.Comment
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Now, I think that I'm wrong. I just re-read CJD's post, and you're ONLY changing the resistors on the TWEETER side, so the 5ohm to a 3ohm, and the 6ohm to a 12ohm.Originally posted by CADman_ks
Is that correct?
I'm also assuming that the tweeter version now is too hot, and that's why you're making these changes, to pull it back down...Comment
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BTW, in all my haste and panic I forgot to say THANK YOU for letting me know!! :TOriginally posted by ---k---
I really appreciate the heads up and help!!!Comment
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I'll mark up the crossover with the corrections so it is easy to read. Just give me a day or so.
And don't worry too much about figuring out which version you have. You should be able to clearly hear the difference. The original tweeter was pretty flat while the new version has a big rising top end. It results in a overly bright and forward sound that is harsh and fatiguing to listen to. It isn't subtle ... though CJD and I joked that there are probably a lot of people who like them with the hot tweeter. :wink:Comment
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Cool... :TOriginally posted by ---k---Comment
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Pe Rocks!!!
I have to give a HUGE shout out to PE!
Since I need to change out my resistors and inductors in my crossovers, I called them today, and I asked them if they would include them when they shipped out my mids that are on back order.
The young lady that I talked with was very courteous and obliged. The whole transaction took less than 3 minutes. I was on hold longer than that.
They are not going to charge me additional shipping either, since I still have an order there waiting to go!!!
They are a class act, indeed. :TComment
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Great to hear. I've never really heard a bad thing about PE.Comment
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It seems like anymore there are internet companies and there are mail order companies (or what I would traditionally call mail order: published catalog and they take orders by phone) , but you're NOT in good in both of these categories.Originally posted by ---k---
One or the other, not both.
PE, seems to be good at both...Comment
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HOLY SCHNIKES!!!
Now they are on backorder until 7/11/2012!!! :E:E:E:E
Jeepers! Now, I'm beginning to wonder if they are ever going to make these drivers again!!!
Originally posted by CADman_ksI hadn't checked PE lately to see how the ND140 back ordering was coming along. The last that I checked, they were back ordered until 5/5/12.
Just checked today, and they are BO'ed until 6/7/12!! :E:E:E:E
I guess I have more time now to get them completed. :TComment
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Ouch. Maybe the boat sunk.Comment
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LOL!!! I'm beginning to wonder! !!Originally posted by ---k---Comment
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Now, I openly admit that I haven't really been moving on these speakers like I should. Too many other things got in the way, and I just haven't made these a priority to get finished at this point.
However, I AM getting help with my drivers! They got moved out AGAIN, and now they won't be here until the first of August!!! 8O 8O 8O
As long as this keeps up, I guess that I have an excuse for not getting them completed. That's one positive thing to consider.
Originally posted by CADman_ksHOLY SCHNIKES!!!
Now they are on backorder until 7/11/2012!!! :E:E:E:E
Jeepers! Now, I'm beginning to wonder if they are ever going to make these drivers again!!!Attached FilesComment
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Sure looks like it!!Originally posted by cjdOy, seriously?
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the techtalk forum got an answer from PE:
Due to neodymium supply issues with their current factory, Dayton Audio is in the process of resourcing the entire ND series of drivers to a new facility. To ensure consistent performance and the product quality you’ve come to expect from the Dayton Audio line of drivers, each model has gone through rigorous testing.
I’m happy to say that all models have passed the final Klippel testing process with flying colors and are now in mass production at the new factory. These new versions will look and perform as good if not better than the originals. Extra care has been taken to closely match the existing parameters so they will work in all existing designs.
We are doing everything in our power to get them back in stock and apologize for the inconvenience.
If you have any further questions regarding this matter you can send me a private message.
Regards,
Karl B. Keyes
V.P. of Marketing
You can see the thread hereIvan.
My Statement monitorsComment
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I had read recently that there was a neodymium shortage. I wondered if that had something to do with it.Originally posted by Silver1omo
Good to know that they are not changing the parameters!Comment
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Use the your extra time, while waiting, to plan out your next DIY speaker project
Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if I were married to you I'd put poison in your coffee"
Winston Churchill "Nancy, if I were married to you I'd drink it."Comment
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LOL! :W :agree:Comment
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Nochocinco
Did you see they bumped the due date again on the ND-140 drivers?
Really again?Comment
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Its almost too comical to laugh about!!!
LOL!!!Comment
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I've been thinking it may be time to find an alternate driver.
diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine AudioComment
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According to the press release from PE, the drivers are being "improved" with some sort of a better neo or magnet, and they are supposed to be better.Originally posted by cjdI've been thinking it may be time to find an alternate driver.
Fortunately for me, I'm not in a really big hurry, and I have time to wait, so it isn't a big deal.Comment
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While I'm waiting, I finally did get up the gumption to work on the cabs again tonight. The weather has turned cool here (only 90), so I totally sanded all of the cabs tonite, and put a coat of water on them to raise the grain.
I also arrived at the stain choice that I'm going to use tonite, so that was more progress. The test sample really made the grain pop. I think that it should look really good on the cabs. I would probably go a little bit lighter if I were choosing, but she-who-must-be-obeyed liked the darker color, so that's what I went with.
Tomorrow, I should be able to lightly sand them to knock the grain down, and then apply the stain. The weather is supposed to stay nice all week, so I plan on doing the lacquer later this week.
If I get all of that done this week, I'll only have the grills, and the front accent pieces to paint black, and then wait for drivers to come... 8)Comment
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The solution for absentminded/old guys like us is: get three of everything - "rule of threes".Originally posted by CADman_ks
By the time you lose the third one, you find the first one you lost, ad nauseum...Comment
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Didn't take any pictures tonight, but I did manage to get them stained.
I don't know if I was just imagining things or not, but it did seem that the veneer did not take stain like a typical piece of oak.
Now to get some lacquer, and get them done, and then begin the waiting game for the drivers...Comment
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LOL! Funny but too true!Originally posted by SpeakerGuy
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Book matched pics...
Well, I didn't quite get them lacquered this week. Should be able to get some lacquer this coming week and get that accomplished.
But, I did get the speakers stained, and had some time today to shoot a few pictures of how all of the book matching came out. It is a lot easier to see the grain patterns now that they are stained. These are images of all of the (4) sides of the boxes that are book matched to each other.
If you look closely at these sets of pics, you can see that they are almost the same from pair to pair as well, but not quite. I had to shift the pattern over on the second set so that I could maximize my veneer.
I know. I know... I'll be the only one that ever knows this, but I AT LEAST I KNOW.
Pair 1, side 1:
Pair 1, side 2:
Pair 2, side 3:
Pair 2, side 4:
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Very nice! :TOriginally posted by CADman_ks
I may just have to send you 4 of my ND140 drivers so you'll have enough incentive to finish the cabinets...Comment
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LOL!!Originally posted by BeerParty
I have time to get them done, so I'm not in a hurry, thank goodness.
I'm still hoping that I have these done by the time that I get the drivers, which at this point shouldn't really be a big deal, since those aren't due until the middle of August.Comment
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HEAR YE! HEAR YE! Ocho's now worth $8000...
This is what happens when you're sitting around waiting for drivers to arrive. You start looking for reasons to make fun of your situation, and unfortunately, there always has to be a fall guy. So, I decided to poke fun at another tread... :twisted:
In another thread, this one to be exact: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...85&postcount=3
it was stated that the Aerial LR5's have a price of $9K. I went to their website, looked at them, and after reading the specs, I decided that musically on paper, as near as this speaker-building-wannabe can tell, their identical. Can't tell a difference, OK, save maybe the 700 watts required to drive the LR5's. Ocho's don't require that kind of power. You got me there. But, when I got to the cabinets, I decided that because of the construction that I used to build Ocho's, my Ocho's are now much more valuable. Here's why:
From the Aerial website regarding the cabs:
Cabinet: (1) Ultra-high density minimum resonance enclosure
(2) Extensive interlocked bracing. Tongue and groove joints
(3) Mirror-imaged matched pairs in architectural veneers
Let's take them one point at a time:
(1) Ultra-high density minimum resonance enclosure - check. Got that. In fact, when I was at the lumber yard picking up my ultra-high density minimum resonance board, I asked the clerk if this was the ultra-high stuff, or that regular poor mans stuff. His response, "We only have one grade. The ultra-high density minimum resonance board." "Sold", I said! (NOTE: that may be paraphrased, but it's mostly accurate, as I remember it)
(2) Extensive interlocked bracing. Tongue and groove joints - check. Got that, or something even better. Tongue and groove is way overrated, and very much old school. Heck, they were doing that stuff in the 17th century, that's how old and blase that is. I opted for something a little more modern, screws, and some PVA glue. And, all good speakers have interlocking bracing, and I threw some of that in as well.
(3) Mirror-imaged matched pairs in architectural veneers - check. Got that, by gawd!!! See post 129 above: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=129 for proof, if you don't believe me. Everyone laughed at me when I said that I was going to painstakingly take the time to book-match my speakers, (they chose the words mirror-image, but they are the same ), but they sound good already, and I haven't even put drivers in them! That's how much book-matching / mirror-imaging does for the sound! It's unreal! You all should try it some time! And, I know that I used architectural veneer, because it architectural on two fronts: 1) it was an architecturally engineered product with veneer on top and paper on the bottom for additional strength, and 2) the pattern had at least (2) cathedrals patterns in it, so that's an architectural feature in the veneer. So, I did indeed use architectural veneer, no doubt.
So, know the real question is, 'why did I de-value the Ocho's?', you ask. Good question. There are really two main reasons:
1) The Ocho's are not a TMWW configuration, only a MTM. Heavy on the M's, light to no W's, so I had to take a little off for that. Here's how I broke that down: $900 less for each nonexistance W ($1800 for (2), for those mathematically challenged), so that brought the list down to $7200. BUT, there is the addition of one more M, which added an $500, bringing the total to $7700. I know, I know, you're saying, "You didn't pay that much for those drivers", and you're right, but remember these are retail prices, and include shipping, handling, installation, testing, blah, blah, blah. So, that's why they are more than the price that I may have paid for them.
2) It was hard to come up with a "reasonable" value for this item, but I placed and additional $300 value on the fair superior joinery technique that I used, screws and PVA, vs, the old school run-of-the-mill-anyone-can-do tongue and groove inferior joinery.
So that brought my grand total back up to $8000. (NOTE: I didn't make this clear, but that is per pair, and not per speaker. They're not that good)
All-in-all, I still have no idea of what my Ocho's sound like, because I still don't have drivers. BUT, the good news is that the date has NOT moved in the last month, and is still sitting at 8/23.Comment
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With due respect and a number of superficial scratches and sliver remnants urging me on, your joints aren't all that. And I have to add, I really don't like dado alignment in large angled panels. I appraise them at $1200 for the pair.
But that's not a tongue in cheek appraisal...
CdiVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine AudioComment
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LOL!!!Originally posted by cjd
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Cadman have you considered biscuits and secret Govt. only adhesives
like some of the top speaker companies employ for their joints? Ha he
said joints! And if they change the ETA on those drivers again, it is time
for a new driver. I'm in the middle of an Aviatrix build started in Jan. and
the sister-outlaw is getting cranky.Comment
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