Clearwave 4TSE Build

[baniels]

I am keeping a pretty extensive diary of the project, which can be found here. You can go there if you want captions and ramblings and whatnot.

I work for a waterjet shop and will be having granite baffles (if all goes to plan).

I hope to be wiring by the end of the week. I still have to figure out a creative way to put a grill on these. Believe me, I would love to be able to go without, but I have a 2 yr old son running around and he never puts down his drum sticks.

This is not my first build, but I don't consider myself experienced. My first project was a subwoofer several years ago... TC Sounds TC-1000 w/PR. I then started the Dayton TMWW Mains. I was about 80% of the way through with the cabinets and 1/4 xovers completed. I was using the shop of a local woodworker for the build. Over one weekend he was evicted, I wasn't notified, and his shop was cleared out. Most of my work had been thrown into a dumpster in the rain. I sort of gave up on it. I held onto the BOM for years until I found a buyer in December. That helped fund this project.

Enough talk. Here are the pictures. More to come.

[DeathMonk]

That's some crazy clamping going on

Great craftsmanship

Those bases/spikes look exactly like the ones I made before deciding to go with a wood base.

[baniels]

I was happy with the way the spikes turned out. I can't take any credit for the mdf cuts though - I sent my drawings to a CNC shop. I still don't have a suitable work shop. You can see I had to displace my drums to make room for assembly.

[DAVE.S]

I was happy with the way the spikes turned out. I can't take any credit for the mdf cuts though - I sent my drawings to a CNC shop. I still don't have a suitable work shop. You can see I had to displace my drums to make room for assembly.

how much did that cost i am thinking about using a cnc shop for my second pair of statements
btw great looking build it looks like your really taking your time i wish i had with my first pair of statements

[baniels]

The cutting cost me $215. $150 of that was the actual cutting, the rest material and tax. Pretty reasonable when I think about how many hours it would have taken me - and that's only if I were to have a shop to do it in, which I don't.

That was with me doing all of the drawing - I sent him files that he didn't have to mess around with. I imagine it could have been a lot more if he needed to do the drawings and get my approval, revise, etc.

how much did that cost i am thinking about using a cnc shop for my second pair of statements
btw great looking build it looks like your really taking your time i wish i had with my first pair of statements

[DAVE.S]

The cutting cost me $215. $150 of that was the actual cutting, the rest material and tax. Pretty reasonable when I think about how many hours it would have taken me - and that's only if I were to have a shop to do it in, which I don't.

That was with me doing all of the drawing - I sent him files that he didn't have to mess around with. I imagine it could have been a lot more if he needed to do the drawings and get my approval, revise, etc.

wow thats exactly how much i spent for a crafsmen to cut mine i just need to learn to model

[baniels]

Gluing the bottom panels on





Dry fitting the inner baffle to discover that I don't have enough clamps!



More clamps in hand...

[dar47]

Okay that's just ladiculus. Did you borrow the whole neighborhood's clamps?

[baniels]

Ha ha. It does seem excessive, but I have no doubt about even distribution of pressure. I'm trying to keep tight tolerances so I don't have to manually adjust the cad file for the granite baffles.

[1Michael]

I am coming over to your house for my next build...

[Face]

I thought I had a lot of clamps... Looking forward to the rest of the build.

[sprtfan]

The cutting cost me $215. $150 of that was the actual cutting, the rest material and tax. Pretty reasonable when I think about how many hours it would have taken me - and that's only if I were to have a shop to do it in, which I don't.

That was with me doing all of the drawing - I sent him files that he didn't have to mess around with. I imagine it could have been a lot more if he needed to do the drawings and get my approval, revise, etc.

Did you have this done locally? I ask because I live close by and this may be a nice option when ever I get around to building. I was looking at building the 4Ts as well.

[baniels]

I had them cut at a place in Ottumwa called Wooden Creations.

If you are in Iowa City, I would recommend calling or emailing Jeff from "Wudwerkz" in Cedar Rapids. His website is http://www.wudwerkz.com/ - you can find his contact info there.

I believe he has made some speaker cabinet parts for others in the past. He seems like a good guy and will be closer than Ottumwa. I emailed back and forth a bit with him and he was helpful - I ultimately went with Ottumwa as it was 30 miles vs 90.

[sprtfan]

I had them cut at a place in Ottumwa called Wooden Creations.

If you are in Iowa City, I would recommend calling or emailing Jeff from "Wudwerkz" in Cedar Rapids. His website is http://www.wudwerkz.com/ - you can find his contact info there.

I believe he has made some speaker cabinet parts for others in the past. He seems like a good guy and will be closer than Ottumwa. I emailed back and forth a bit with him and he was helpful - I ultimately went with Ottumwa as it was 30 miles vs 90.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure I'll go that route when the time comes or not, but it is nice to know that there is a local option.

[baniels]

The build progressing:


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[atm98]

How will you attach the granite baffles ?

[baniels]

Most likely an epoxy of some sort. I will be testing some options before I go "live" with it. Possibly a silicone adhesive.

[baniels]

Making some more progress. This is the 2nd to last pre-granite glue battle.

Dry fitting the side piece before glue.


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Just before gluing.


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[baniels]

Here is what I will be using instead of veneer for the cabinet. I wanted to do something different, and I think it will look striking next to the granite. I am still not sure how to handle the seams. I was originally thinking to use some angle metal (painted aluminum maybe) over all the corners to cover up the fabric seams (see render in first post), but I am really hoping to avoid that. For all practical purposes the fabric is infinite in length, and with a usable width of 52-53 (one edge has imperfections).

I did some tests using a flush trim bit with a scrap, but the fabric is too soft to allow for a clean cut. A knife seems like the only way to cut it right. I could potentially wrap it up one side from the bottom, over the top, and down the other side, giving me plenty of material to wrap around to the back. That would leave me with three lines of seam to deal with, and on the rear where I suppose I can afford for it to look like it was made in China and not in Germany.

A “Y” shaped convergence of seams down the center seems like a good idea in theory, in that it takes the seams away from the 90 degree edges. But in order to know where to make the cuts, I would want to attach the sides and top first, which means I have to get it right on the first try.

I’ll be experimenting with gluing methods soon. 3M Super 77 seems to do a great job, but I might want something that will give me a little more working time. Perhaps the Titebond iron-on method. Assuming I figure that part out, I’m open to suggestions on how to handle the seams.

[rdrowley]

Why not do it in 2 pieces? One that wraps from the bottom of one side, up over the top, then down the other side. And one that is just for the back. Then the only seam you would have would be on the edge of the back. I doubt you would even see it. The problem I see with this is that you wouldn't be able to match the fabric pattern of the bit of fabric that covers the top of the speaker. It may also be somewhat difficult to cut, but I doubt it will be more difficult than what you are currently planning.

Good luck, I can't wait to see the finished product.

[baniels]

I don't have a great way to get the fabric cut straight along the edge. It can be done on one side - using the bare edge as a knife guide. but when the edge I want to use as a knife guide has fabric on it, I can't run my knife closely there without gouging the fabric, I don't think.

[rdrowley]

I don't have a great way to get the fabric cut straight along the edge. It can be done on one side - using the bare edge as a knife guide. but when the edge I want to use as a knife guide has fabric on it, I can't run my knife closely there without gouging the fabric, I don't think.

How about cutting out the back piece to the correct size before putting on the sides, but don't install it. Then install and trim the side/top piece, then install the back. It doesn't look like the material is very stretchy so that's probably how I would do it.

[baniels]

That's a possibility. It didn't occur to me because I had originally been planning to use an adhesive that wouldn't allow for the delicate placement required with an exact-sized piece. But since I am going to be testing out some alternative adhesives, that could be the right way to do it. Thanks.

How about cutting out the back piece to the correct size before putting on the sides, but don't install it. Then install and trim the side/top piece, then install the back. It doesn't look like the material is very stretchy so that's probably how I would do it.

[jabe421]

I have done similar things in the past. The first was the way you are talking about using the edge as a guide. The best way I found was to apply a piece of painters tape along the back edge of the side you want to cover then use a spray or roll on adhesive and remove the tape. This will give you a small strip along the back edge without any adhesive. Apply your material and trim along the edges with adhesive. Use a straight edge to hold the material down along the edge without the adhesive and trim it. This will allow you to tape back the material so you can cover the back and trim it without damaging the sides. After the back is complete you can come back and apply adhesive on the material and along the edge where the tape was. This worked well but gives you a very delicate edge especially if you have kids.

The second method I used was for a toy box. I made the box out of 1/2" particle board them laminated a second 1/2" piece that had 45° miter at the corners to make a full 1" side. The pieces with the miter were about 3/32" smaller than they should have been to make a perfect joint. The material was then wrapped around the edge of the miter and when the box was put together the material had a seam that was wrapped in to the corner its self. I also added some upholstery foam to the side to give it some added padding. This was a lot more work but was very durable and turned out great. I will see if my brother still has the toy box to post a few pictures or I can do a CAD model if you are having a hard time visualizing it.

Good luck,
Jabe

[Renovator]

Not quite sure what you're looking for - but the use of fabric reminded me of what Rob323 did for his Elsinores in this thread. Turned out very well with the mix of leather and wood.


http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/show...lsinores/page2

cheers
Lewis

[baniels]

I have done similar things in the past. The first was the way you are talking about using the edge as a guide. The best way I found was to apply a piece of painters tape along the back edge of the side you want to cover then use a spray or roll on adhesive and remove the tape. This will give you a small strip along the back edge without any adhesive. Apply your material and trim along the edges with adhesive. Use a straight edge to hold the material down along the edge without the adhesive and trim it. This will allow you to tape back the material so you can cover the back and trim it without damaging the sides. After the back is complete you can come back and apply adhesive on the material and along the edge where the tape was. This worked well but gives you a very delicate edge especially if you have kids.

This is brilliant! Very worthy first post. I will try this out on a test piece and see how it holds up. With some luck I can find some clear adhesive to bead along the edge to prevent the fabric from peeling back.

The second method I used was for a toy box. I made the box out of 1/2" particle board them laminated a second 1/2" piece that had 45° miter at the corners to make a full 1" side. The pieces with the miter were about 3/32" smaller than they should have been to make a perfect joint. The material was then wrapped around the edge of the miter and when the box was put together the material had a seam that was wrapped in to the corner its self. I also added some upholstery foam to the side to give it some added padding. This was a lot more work but was very durable and turned out great. I will see if my brother still has the toy box to post a few pictures or I can do a CAD model if you are having a hard time visualizing it.

I understand what you are saying. With the cabinets already assembled, I don't think I can pull this off, though it would be a very clean way to go about it.

[baniels]

Couple progress pictures. Poor me, the project required a new router bit. :W


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[baniels]

Cabinets are complete. Fully assembled, wired, sanded, and flush all around.

The next step will be determined by whether I indeed end up using metal angle on the corners. I will be meeting soon with a friend who is a metal worker (and a fellow drummer). If it is determined that steel angle is a viable option, I will be able to proceed with the covering of the cabinets with the fabric. And I can also proceed with the cutting of the granite when I know the thickness of the metal (probably 1/8"). I will have the granite cut 1/4" wider and 1/8" taller than the cabinet to make it flush with the metal instead of the cabinet.


I'll be laminating the granite slab to a sheet of 1/4" aluminum before cutting. This will give it the extra strength to survive the lifting from the waterjet machine, and the in-shop transport and the polishing/roundover of the edges. I also think a little strip of polished aluminum might look quite sharp right behind the granite.


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[TacoD]

Very very nice looking project. I like your spike/ stands. It gives the speaker a "classy" look

[Dean100]

Looking forward to seeing the finished speaker. Excellent work so far! :T

[baniels]

The shop was closed the the holiday today, so I took the opportunity to use the massive granite tables used for assembly to cut my fabric.

I don’t know how I would have been able to do this without such a large surface. The fabric is cut into two pieces per cabinet. One piece will start at the bottom of one side, go up the side, over the top, and down the other. The second piece will go on the back. I have finally figured out how I will handle the seams. I’ll explain that later.



Done



Here’s another shot of the fabric.



Here is a shot of the stone I will be using to cut the baffles. That job is actually starting to appear on the horizon.



For the heck of it, here is a shot of part of the shop. This is one of the assembly areas for our hard-surface projects (stone, metal, anything that needs abrasive garnet dust added to the water stream for cutting).



And also for the heck of it, this is a floor medallion being dry-fit for sub assembly. Pieces like this are assembled in-house into sub-assemblies for safer transport. And because stone thickness varies, they are assembled top-down on a flat surface.



Larger pics can be found here.

[baniels]

This is how I will be handling the seams of the fabric.

I will rabbet the back edge of the sides and top. The fabric will be applied in a single sheet on the sides and top. The fabric will folder over the rabbeted edge.
The the back will have a single piece of fabric. Then a frame of 1/8″ thick steel angle will be welded to fit inside the rabbeted edge.

This will cover the seam of the fabric. The rabbeting allows the metal to be flush with the sides and the top. The width of the metal will closely mimic the thickness of the granite on the front baffle.

This is the top rear after I make the rabbets.


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This is how the metal frame will fit.

[baniels]

Slowly moving forward. The end approaches.

Rear edges chamfered, preparing to iron-on the fabric to the top, sides, and back.

Granite is out to be trimmed down to size a bit. I'll be laminating the back with 1/4" alum. before it is cut into the baffles.

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[richnen]

Looking forward to seeing the completed speakers!
Very nice looking stone, you would be hard pressed to find a harder granite. No worries about scratching that material.

[baniels]

Applying the glue to the back of the fabric. This iron-on method is really great. It would have been way to difficult to get it lines up in one shot if I had tried using contact cement.




Top first.




And the sides.




After trimming the fabric flush with the front.




For the back the fabric is laid down over the rabbeted edges and over the rear a half inch.




The piece on the back will go overlap here creating a little needed extra height. This will fill the small gap under the steel, allowing it to be straight (see arrow). This was the best I could get to matching the steel with the bits I had. This will be a single frame when it is complete. The piece here is just to help clamp the fabric while the spray mount dried.




This is close to what it will look like. May end up staining or painting the steel.

[Hdale85]

I wonder if I could wrap my curved cabinets in something like this and make it look good?

[baniels]

That depends on the nature of the curve. Imagine trying to fold a piece of paper around a tube - easy. But try folding it around a ball or a bowl, not so easy.

You also have to get creative with the seams. I went through a number of ideas before finally landing on the one I did. Unfortunately you can't just flush trim it like veneer.

[Hdale85]

Yeah that's mainly my concern is the seam at the top.

[baniels]

I had posted some pictures of the completed rear of the first cabinet on my blog, but I didn't take any pictures of the process (I was too focused on not screwing it up). I was more confident that I would be able to pull it off this time so I took some pics. High res pics here.

Cutting out the port hole in the fabric. Fabric is clamped on the top to hold alignment.



You can see the fabric begin to bend after lightly pressing in the port.



3/4" Highpoint screws. These work very will in MDF.



This is where is starts getting scary. The first time through this I was certain I'd never be able to get this flat.



After the 4 screws are in. Yikes!



After just a few minutes of ironing. I had added some additional glue to the MDF around the port and plate on top of the layer that covers the whole back. I think it helped keep it down.





On to the plate



I had to pound the plate in. A combination of things led to this tight fit. I would avoid such a tight fit if I were doing this again -- but it fits.



Even though I had seen this before, I was still nervous about this again.



After several minutes of ironing, I have tamed it down.

[Ed H]

A simply beautiful build. Very, very impressive.

But I must ask, how do they sound?!

[baniels]

I wish I could answer you! The granite has not yet been cut for the baffles. I am hoping it can happen this week (have to fit in time with one of our larger waterjet machines and we've been pretty busy).

I'm also still waiting on the CNC guy who cut the mdf to make me some rings out of some thick plywood. I couldn't route the granite to create a recess for mounting the baffles. The rings will serve that purpose - I'll plane them to the appropriate thickness to flush the drivers with the granite. The thickness of the granite is a little over 3/4, and 3/4 ply would still be too thin to bring the drivers with the thinnest flanges flush. So he has to find some thicker stuff to use.

[Face]

Laminate a couple pieces of .5" MDF and have him trim it down too.

[baniels]

I'd rather have some plywood back there. Much more screw-friendly.

[0db]

Looking at your WIP site, maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm thinking your relief frame for your foam grilles is going to have a much more significant effect on acoustics than the foam itself - the frame seems to be hugging the drivers very closely and I can't imagine that won't significantly affect the acoustic performance of your baffle.

Then again, I'm pretty new at this. I'm still watching your build eagerly, you've got some seriously beautiful stuff going on here. It's a shame you have to use grilles at all, but I completely understand why!

[baniels]

Well - the relief frame itself is going to be made of the same foam as the rest of the grille. Just 1/4 material to lift the rest of it.

Did I just say something obvious, or did my blog make it sound like the frame was made of something else?

Looking at your WIP site, maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm thinking your relief frame for your foam grilles is going to have a much more significant effect on acoustics than the foam itself - the frame seems to be hugging the drivers very closely and I can't imagine that won't significantly affect the acoustic performance of your baffle.

Then again, I'm pretty new at this. I'm still watching your build eagerly, you've got some seriously beautiful stuff going on here. It's a shame you have to use grilles at all, but I completely understand why!