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Newbee here - or better stated, Oldbee reawakened. Finally getting around to finalizing my new living room and its long neglected a/v, I have decided to build a line array. Starting with "A New Home for the BG Ribbons" from 2002 ( https://www.htguide.com/forum/archiv...hp/t-3311.html ), I have read with interest the JonMarsh, Hank, ThomasW et al epics dating back to 2002 guest staring opposing views from ***** and Rick. So curious minds want to know - what happened? What started out as a search for good mid/bass woofers to match with the RD75 morphed into a monopole/dipole/electrostatic/wide-skinny baffle/router bit/yak skin discussion.
- Thomas seemed to find audio nirvana with the RD75 mated to Acoustats panels and leaf tweeters.
- Jon, although originally a monopole fan, seemed to become influenced by the dark side and also drifted towards cone based dipoles.
- Hank - Well I'm not sure you ever settled on the ultimate to build. Wouldn't want to rush into anything!
Maybe I missed a thread or ten.
Although if given the choice and the correct room configuration, I also would prefer electrostatic dipoles ala ThomasW. When this is over, I will have an excellent set of Quad ESL63's for sale.
So, based on all of these discussions and my room layout constraints, I have decided to build:
- monopole line arrays due to required room placement - built into a wall unit. Toe-in to be discussed. Yes, I know edge diffraction and ambience problems will be compromised.
- use the specially modified B&G Neo8's *******(I originally intended to use a pair of RD75's I snagged from e-Bay but UPS decided that was not a good idea - I didn’t get a vote). I'm not worried about the fall-off above 15K because I probably cannot hear above that anymore - but my dog might enjoy a better choice.
- use 6-1/2" woofers due to limited baffle width of 12"-13" max. If ******* designs can go low enough with 6-1/2” woofers, my not mine? Hopefully at least down to the 50-60 Hz range to avoid low end image location problems if sub-woofer is used.
- x-over in the 600-800 hz. range to keep x-over below critical areas.
- build this configuration and if I am not satisfied with the low end, add sub-woofers. Probably trans-line with the line through the floor into the basement rafters and back out or maybe just an IB.
- at least initially, use active x-overs to tune and avoid the complexity and numerous nasty passive x-over components. Once x-over points and slopes are established, then maybe integrate a passive x-over. If I end up using a sub-woofer, I will run out of amps and would rather heat my room the traditional way.
So my question is still the same as at the beginning of the 2002 thread, what woofer would be the best match?
Current shortlist contenders are:
- Basically copy the AlphaLS design and use the CSS woofers (currently the WR125ST I think due to the WR125S being discontinued) even though Jon states the required volume for a sealed enclosure becomes quite large.
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...ar+idea+danny# post67548
- Buy ***************** Edit by moderator Even though the original design was a ported enclosure,
- Jon's favorite, the MCM 2321, no longer seems available and I do not see a good MCM equivalent. Did Jon ever build an array with these? Good results? Current MCM favorite?
- Perhaps a HiVi M6a based on all of the good comments about the M8a. I'm not sure the good comments were about the M8a were in a sealed enclosure or not or if the M6a would exhibit the same good characteristics.
- Even considered the Vifa BC18SG69-0 from PE because it seemed reasonable, is a truncated frame and was on special. Maybe gone by now.
- Not too enamored with the Dayton RF series, metal cones and all. Am I wrong?
I’m trying to keep the driver costs <2.5-3K. Got to set a limit somewhere!
Looking for comments/suggestions on woofers and an explanation please----
What are the sonic differences between a floppy woofer (large Vas) in a large sealed enclosure vs. a stiffer woofer (smaller Vas) in a smaller sealed enclosure when they are both tuned for the same Q and F3?
All comments and sarcasm greatly appreciated.
Tim
This post has been edited by moderator to conform with our "New Rules" section...
- Thomas seemed to find audio nirvana with the RD75 mated to Acoustats panels and leaf tweeters.
- Jon, although originally a monopole fan, seemed to become influenced by the dark side and also drifted towards cone based dipoles.
- Hank - Well I'm not sure you ever settled on the ultimate to build. Wouldn't want to rush into anything!
Maybe I missed a thread or ten.
Although if given the choice and the correct room configuration, I also would prefer electrostatic dipoles ala ThomasW. When this is over, I will have an excellent set of Quad ESL63's for sale.
So, based on all of these discussions and my room layout constraints, I have decided to build:
- monopole line arrays due to required room placement - built into a wall unit. Toe-in to be discussed. Yes, I know edge diffraction and ambience problems will be compromised.
- use the specially modified B&G Neo8's *******(I originally intended to use a pair of RD75's I snagged from e-Bay but UPS decided that was not a good idea - I didn’t get a vote). I'm not worried about the fall-off above 15K because I probably cannot hear above that anymore - but my dog might enjoy a better choice.
- use 6-1/2" woofers due to limited baffle width of 12"-13" max. If ******* designs can go low enough with 6-1/2” woofers, my not mine? Hopefully at least down to the 50-60 Hz range to avoid low end image location problems if sub-woofer is used.
- x-over in the 600-800 hz. range to keep x-over below critical areas.
- build this configuration and if I am not satisfied with the low end, add sub-woofers. Probably trans-line with the line through the floor into the basement rafters and back out or maybe just an IB.
- at least initially, use active x-overs to tune and avoid the complexity and numerous nasty passive x-over components. Once x-over points and slopes are established, then maybe integrate a passive x-over. If I end up using a sub-woofer, I will run out of amps and would rather heat my room the traditional way.
So my question is still the same as at the beginning of the 2002 thread, what woofer would be the best match?
Current shortlist contenders are:
- Basically copy the AlphaLS design and use the CSS woofers (currently the WR125ST I think due to the WR125S being discontinued) even though Jon states the required volume for a sealed enclosure becomes quite large.
https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...ar+idea+danny# post67548
- Buy ***************** Edit by moderator Even though the original design was a ported enclosure,
- Jon's favorite, the MCM 2321, no longer seems available and I do not see a good MCM equivalent. Did Jon ever build an array with these? Good results? Current MCM favorite?
- Perhaps a HiVi M6a based on all of the good comments about the M8a. I'm not sure the good comments were about the M8a were in a sealed enclosure or not or if the M6a would exhibit the same good characteristics.
- Even considered the Vifa BC18SG69-0 from PE because it seemed reasonable, is a truncated frame and was on special. Maybe gone by now.
- Not too enamored with the Dayton RF series, metal cones and all. Am I wrong?
I’m trying to keep the driver costs <2.5-3K. Got to set a limit somewhere!
Looking for comments/suggestions on woofers and an explanation please----
What are the sonic differences between a floppy woofer (large Vas) in a large sealed enclosure vs. a stiffer woofer (smaller Vas) in a smaller sealed enclosure when they are both tuned for the same Q and F3?
All comments and sarcasm greatly appreciated.
Tim
This post has been edited by moderator to conform with our "New Rules" section...
). I do not know if/how much renovation the RD75 driver has undergone during that time, but I'd assume any changes were made for the better.
:B 
: 
unk:
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