My Modula MT’s are done. Impressions and many pics

[JonW]

I can tell you, as a 20 y/o who built these as my first good speakers, that they are fantastic.

Hearing that makes me happy. :B

[---k---]

I can't bring the towers :P I think Jon was wanting to hear those (?)

Actually, I can spare some time at home, but it's a project weekend (making truffles, and I think I may see about starting on a gift for my wife) so I don't know how well that would fly. Don't remember if anything else is happening just now, it gets crazy on the scheduling this time of year. Concerts, family stuff, work...

C

Chris,
I only say this here, rather than in a pm, so that hopefully everyone else will pile on and guilt you into coming over.

But, I spoke with Jon this evening and he is now waffling and whether to make the trip up this way. He says that he'll come if you come. So, you really have to come!

Really, I know that you have a better ear than probably Jon and I combined. I think we would really benefit from having you join us. And, I think the forum could use a good CJD review of the Modula MT.

So, hopefully you are now feeling guilty and want to come over.

I understand if you can't make it. Maybe touch base with Jon and let him know how many hours you can give him at your place, if you're still willing, and maybe we can move it up that way - depending on how much driving he is up for and whether Steve is going to make it. I've told Jon I'm flexible whether it is Saturday or Sunday. Let me know.

[Brian Walter]

JonW,

I'm not an expert at spraying, but I know that getting the material the right viscosity and having everything adjusted correctly makes all the difference in the world. I also know that people have had fairly good luck spraying Lacquer with the sprayer you have, so you may want to practice some more on scraps until you get better. Then you can simply sand your cabinets smooth and apply a new final layer. Here is a link to a spraying "how-to" that may be of some use: http://www.cjohnhebert.com/spraying.htm Another option is to go to one of the woodworking/finishing forums and ask for advice using your particular sprayer and lacquer. That's what I did to solve the staining issues I was having with my last speaker project and in the process I learned a lot about using dyes, as opposed to stains. If you want suggestions for woodworking or finishing forums I'd be happy to look some up for you.

Brian Walter

[JonW]

Ryan-
Excellent pressure on Chris.


Brian-
Thanks for the tips on spraying. Yes, I clearly need to learn a lot more in this regard. I did try all this on lots of scrap wood first. And the viscosity of the lacquer tested with the cup to be right in the middle of the range. Idunno… Maybe it’s a poor combo of the lacquer and the sprayer. The lacquer I used does dry very quickly and that might complicate things.

Thanks for the excellent link. I’ll read that over in detail. Now that I have the sprayer and I am thinking about what project to try next, I need to learn these things. The woodworking forums idea is a great one. Might you recommend any in particular?

[Brian Walter]

Ryan-
Excellent pressure on Chris.


Brian-
The woodworking forums idea is a great one. Might you recommend any in particular?

I haven't been on any of the wood working forums for a while, but http://www.sawmillcreek.org was fairly good, as was http://www.woodcentral.com The sawmillcreek forum has several different forums, a general woodworking one as well as one devoted strictly to finishing. There others as well, but I don't remember them off hand. If you want to learn how to use various woodworking tools and do various things in woodworking, http://www.woodshopdemos.com/ is a really good site. :T

Brian Walter

[---k---]

Probably another hijack -
I'm just curious, what is the obsession with poly? I have a co-worker who does high-end custom furniture. He is offended by the thought of poly (and even stain, but that is another story). He told me to just rub my sub down with several coats of tung oil, and it would give me a nice deep rich look. He was right. Now, I know that it doesn't offer as much protection from rings if someone puts a drink on it, and I know I'll probably have to reapply every so often 6mo - 1 year. But, dang it was easy and looks great. So what are the other reasons for the poly?

[cjd]

Well, this has turned into the possibility of someone swinging by to listen for a bit on his way through to a mini-meet?

Unfortunately, that puts the time investment beyond what I have available. Sorry to put a damper on all this but...

Now, if y'all wanna swing by and help make truffles, we can probably find time between to do some listening...

C

[---k---]

Party Pooper! :P

I understand. Maybe some other time.

It looks like Steve and Jon will be at my place on Sunday. We'll give a full report on how the ModulaMT stack up against my Ascends. And Jon will be able to get a hear them in a not so live room.

[---k---]

Jon, Jon's girlfriend, SteveCallas, and I had a great day of listening and swapping BS. I think everyone had a great time and found it to be real eye opening.

We were meeting to listen to Jon's Modula MT, my Ascend 340SE, and also my sub. It was a pretty informal demo. We did try and pull the speakers out a bit more than normal, get them about equal distance, and we measured the efficiency difference so we could adjust the volume level. But we didn't do any blind testing. Nor did we spend a ton of time getting the positioning perfect.

So, on to my impressions and thoughts:

We started with a subwoofer demo. I played some Blue Man Group, Finding Nemo, and of course War of the Worlds. We weren't A v. B anything here, and all three of us have big bad boy subs, so we didn't listen that closely. I also don't have any EQ in the system yet, so it wouldn't be totally fair. I'll let Jon and Steve post impressions.

Then we moved on to the Modula MTs vs. the Ascend 340SE. For those who may not be familiar with the Ascends:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

They are a Internet Direct MTM design, going for $550 plus shipping. CJD has listened to them at my place along side his MTMs and a coupd other speakers. He posted his thoughts here: http://hometheatertalk.com/httalk/vi...431&highlight=

We skipped around a lot on discs and weren't to organized in our listening - though it was great fun. Jon will have to give a run down of a couple of CD's of his we listened to. Of mine, we spent a lot of time listening to Peter Malick and Norah Jones - New York City.

All in all, I've always thought the Ascends were a good, neutral speaker. Maybe a little thin. Chris's MTM's when side-by-side did sound better, but it wasn't a BIG night and day difference to me. It was slightly better here and there. For the most part, I've never been able to hear big, glaring compromises in the design. They seem very balanced.

Well, having Jon's Modula MT made some differences really standout. The Modulas had a bigger, wider soundstage. They sounded more consistent when sitting off center (I would assume that these are a MT v. MTM thing). They sounded much richer and fuller. They had slightly better bass. Switching from Full Range to Small w/ a cross over didn't make a difference in the sound - like it does with the Ascends.

Listening to Norah Jones and a few other of the female vocals, on the Modula's the voice is so rich with depth, while on the Ascends it sounded like she was straining a bit.

But, at the same time I found myself at times liking the Ascends more. Maybe it was to the too hot tweeter that Chris thought he heard. But to me, the Ascends seemed to have a little more life to them, more airyness to them, more depth. Sparkle? The Modulas seemed, well, flat sometime.

Towards the end of the evening, I put in a Live - Bird of Prey. This is your typical rock CD that has been overly compressed. Still one of my favorite bands. But Live's typical MO is to start slow with a lone deep male vocal and then just rock out. The Modula's sounded soooooo much better on the lone male vocal. They again were just deep and rich. But then when the rock kicks in, I cringed. The Ascends weren't great here, I thought better, but Jon's comment I think was "Sounds like a Radio Shack Boom Box to me" He was right too!

We were powering the Modula's with my simple Pioneer 1015TX receiver. The Modula's likely would have done better with a separate amp.

I think the Modulas were clearly the better speaker. They seemed to handle complexity better, and give better instrument separation. And overall, I think I preferred them on many songs. However every now and them, I found myself wishing for a compromise between the two. I think it comes down to taste. I'm now wishing I could hear a few more of the designs floating around these parts.

And, my hat really goes of to Jon Marsh for such a great design that he gives away freely. Also, to JonW for building some nice speakers. Those things were tanks! Wow they were big! And they look much better than the photos.

[WillyD]

Thanks a lot for the comparison Ryan!

[chasw98]

Ryan:
I wish I could have been there! As you know, I own a set of Ascends 340SE's and some 170SE's (Now relegated to the bedroom system). The 170's are the 2 way version that Ascend makes. I have compared the 170's and the M/T's, but I have never compared the 340's and the M/T's. I also used the Seas tweeter in my M/T's which is described as having that "top end sparkle". The M/T's are so much fuller, accurate, deeper, clearer, etc. than the 170's that I went and built 4 of them for surround duty. When building them I did test to see if they worked properly, then just listened to them 2 channel in the garage. I was amazed at the low end you can get out of them.


Switching from Full Range to Small w/ a cross over didn't make a difference in the sound - like it does with the Ascends.

I will frequently reset my pre/pro to make all the speakers "Large" and turn the sub off when listening to multichannel SACD. The M/T's still sound quite good.

But, at the same time I found myself at times liking the Ascends more. Maybe it was to the too hot tweeter that Chris thought he heard. But to me, the Ascends seemed to have a little more life to them, more airyness to them, more depth. Sparkle? The Modulas seemed, well, flat sometime.

It would be very interesting to have the RS tweeter version side by side with the Seas tweeter version to see if the "Sparkle" was there with one and not with the other.

Sounds like you guys had some fun. :T

Chuck

[---k---]

I also used the Seas tweeter in my M/T's which is described as having that "top end sparkle".
...
It would be very interesting to have the RS tweeter version side by side with the Seas tweeter version to see if the "Sparkle" was there with one and not with the other.

Yeah, Jon mentioned this a couple of times. It would definitely be interesting to hear. I think Jon is being tempted very hard to buy the parts to convert one of his over. I'm selfishly hoping he does.

The M/T's are so much fuller, accurate, deeper, clearer, etc. than the 170's

Yeah, I would agree with that. I've listened to the 170's and 340's side by side. Not much differance between them at normal volumes. The sound very very similar. So, I assume that the comparisions hold true across the board.

Sounds like you guys had some fun. :T

Chuck

We had a great time. Very educational. I think the thing that most suprised me though was how much differnt the Modula sounded than the Ascends. IIRC, Chris's MTM had a very very similar sound as the Ascends. Yeah, Chris thought the tweeter was a little hot, but overall, they sounded very similar. I think depending on the music and at moderate volume levels, it would be hard for me to distingous them every time (I'm thinking specifically of the acoustical guitar peice that Chris playes). But the Modulas were night and day differnt from the Ascends. It wasn't always easy to tell which I liked better, but it was always easy to tell the speakers apart.

When I really listened, it was almost always clear that the Modulas were a better speaker. But when I tryed to enjoyed the music, not listening for differances, I found myself liking the Ascends on a FEW songs.

This is probably all about what I'm used to. And maybe if we played with postioning more, the outcome might have been differnt. Jon will post some pictures later, but I also had a big TV between the speakers about a 8-12" back, which may have played a role.

Again, the Modulas were very good. Enough so that I'm convinced that DIY and the designs here can deleiver. But, I think that me personally, I would like to hear the Seas design.

[Dennis H]

But the Modulas were night and day differnt from the Ascends.

I'm guessing part of it is the enclosures' bass tuning. The Ascends and (I think) Chris's MTM have sealed enclosures designed to roll off around 80 Hz to cross to a sub so they won't really sound right without a sub. The Modulas are designed with a ported enclosure to get the bass as deep as possible considering the small drivers and they can run fullrange if you want.

[---k---]

Nope, both are ported. Ascend start to roll off ~80 and they claim a frequency response of +-3db at 48hz. Chris's I beleive were tuned slightly lower with a much larger enclosure.

[cobbpa]

If any of you are interested, I will probably be in Chicagoland assembling my uncle's Modulas with the Seas metal tweet the weekend of the 16th. We'll be doing 2 regular & 2 low/no bsc variants. If that ends up happening, it might be possible for me to stop by wherever and let some listening happen. I've never had the chance to do much comparing, so this could be fun to me. Or, Jon, if you want me to stop by off 65 on my way back, that might be possible too.

[SteveCallas]

I'll chime in - thanks again to Ryan for having us over. From seeing the pictures of Jon's speakers, I was thinking they were gonna be small and wimpy to be honest. I was expecting the Ascends were going to be the clear winner. I realized I had a bias going in, and truth be told, so did the other two guys - Jon because he built them, and Ryan because he uses Ascends, so I really tried pushing to do the comparing blind and use the discrete Behringer amp as opposed to Pioneer 1015 amplification. Unfortunately Ryan's components are set up in such a way that it would have been a real chore to take them out and do some blind comparisons. Fortunately the differences between the two speakers were quite large.....bias still plays a role though. If we could have done it blind, we could have noticed if there were any trends on specific songs for liking one over the other. Anyway, on to my impressions

Jon's speakers were not small, by no means. I'm even thinking the internal volume of them might be as much as the 340s. We set the speakers up ABAB and ran them as large with no sub for the bulk of the testing. Upon the very initial switching, it was obvious there were large differences. In order of magnitude, in my opinion, the differences were seperation, top end energy, soundstage, and bass/dynamics. In terms of seperation, the Modulas did a much better job in every song. For instance, in many of Ryan's songs played back on the Modula's, the vocals were distinct and seperate from the guitar, drums, and other instruments/sound effects - like they could seperate all the tracks in the music signal and play them discretely. The 340s had a hard time trying to replicate this, it seemed as if the music was one large sum coming at you. It was almost as if in terms of vocals, the Modulas had a much better s/n ratio. In playing around with settings, the 340s improved in this regard when the sub was turned on, but in keeping the sub turned on, the Modulas were still better.

In terms of top end energy, the Ascends were more revealing and the Modulas were more laid back. This is what makes the 340s sound more lively, though I wouldn't call the Modulas dead, just a little flat. On the whole, I like a speaker with a clearer, livelier top end. This seems to have come at a cost though, as the 340s were also thinner while the Modulas were fuller. On a lot of Jon's music, there is background hiss/scratching that is either used for effect or just part of the recording. This ambient hiss came through with the 340s but not really so much with the Modulas. With female voices, it was really a toss up - on some songs I preferred the representation of the 340s because it was higher/clearer and on others I preferred the representation of the Modulas because it was fuller. Basically the Modulas had a better, clearer mid/bottom end section and the Ascends had a better, clearer top end.

In regards to soundstage size, an area that I have always felt the 340s were a little lacking, the Modulas did indeed extend wider. Upon switching, it was like the 340s were limited to their own smaller area. The Modulas had a pretty good size soundstage, but I prefer one even bigger. Had we stopped testing with the 340s and tried optimizing the placement of the Modulas, I'm fairly certain it would have gotten even better (bigger).

Bass/dynamics - in keeping the sub off, but switching the 340s from large to small, it was obvious that the sound quality from the 340s was definitely being degraded when run as large. These speakers, despite what others may say, just can't handle being run full range in my opinion - it was painfully obvious. The Modulas held their own on bass duty better in that there wasn't any real difference in the sound quality when switching from small to large. They seemed to go a bit deeper, but both of these sets of speakers definitely need a sub. As Ryan mentioned, when we listened to a Live song, and they started "rocking out" (loud, not low) the Modulas fell apart. The 340s were able to handle this song better with less distress - the obvious explanation would seem to be two midwoofers vs one.

When all was said and done, on 11 tracks I recall testing with, I preferred the Modulas 7 to 4. On the tracks I preferred the Ascends with, if the Modulas had more drivers and either a tweeter with more clarity or a slight nudge in the top end, I would have sided with the Modulas. I actually really wanted to compare my 340 classics I had in my trunk to Ryan's 340 signatures to see just what the differences were, as I believe the classics sound more laid back with perhaps slighty better seperation, but he shut me down :B

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I had Jon, Ryan, and Gudrun listen to track 10 (For All Seasons) on the Yanni Live Concert Event dvd (Mandalay Bay, not Acropolis), which is a combination of orchestra with some vocals and a techno beat that has amazing trumpet, hammer dulcimer, flute, pvc percussion, violin, and harp solos in it - a dvd I can't recommend any higher to everybody - and they all just kind of flinched. So I really don't know if you can take any of their impressions seriously. They'll stick with their Live and Grant Lee Buffalo :roll: :B

[JonW]

Hi Folks,

That was fun. Thanks to Ryan for having us over. :T Always a good time. Even if I had to endure listening to some Yanni (ahem). :

Ryan and Steve pretty much summed things up. I’ll try to add a little more if I can…

I preferred the Modulas 100% of the time. They had more clarity, wider soundstage, better separation of instruments, voices, etc., maybe a little more bass. Of course I may be totally biased given all the effort I put into those things.

The biggest thing that bothered me about the Ascends seemed to be the presence of distortion. We were listening to everything at 80 db (it was 80, right?). And it seemed to me that you can hear the Ascends break up a fair amount. Like with female vocals with a trailing “s” sound. If someone is drawing out singing the words “place” (plaaaaaacccccccce) or “disgrace” (disgraaaaaaccccccce) there was what seemed to be break up or distortion or something. That bothered me. I also thought the Ascends sounded generally thin, maybe even strained. Adding the sub made the Ascends sound significantly better. Adding the sub to the Modulas didn’t change the speaker character much, except for the obvious added bass. (Ryan’s sub is cool, but that’s another topic altogether. It's the brown 'fridge-looking object at the right of the photo below.)

Yes, the Ascends have more top end tweeter presence. (At least, I think they do.) I see where that is appealing. And I think that’s what I like about my Totem’s- all of what the Modulas do well but with some extra crispy tweeter crunch. I’ve got to hear the Seas version of the Modulas. I agree that the Modulas, overall, sound a bit dead or flat or lifeless. It might be a “sins of omission” option that I once read some bright speaker designing guy talking about.

The Ascends are good speakers, especially when considering the price. There’s only one speaker I’ve heard in the under $1500 category that I’ve really liked (Linn Katan) and it would be interesting to compare the Ascends. But they are good. Given what I spent on the Modulas (maybe $325 parts + wood, glue, etc.) there is not a huge savings over the Ascends, given the time I put into the Modulas. (Using the PE boxes could provide a middle ground between the two, with build time dropping significantly.) If I was just looking for rear/surround speakers, I think the Ascends would be plenty fine, probably even overkill. But I don’t think I could live with the Ascends for a music-only system. But I’m also looking for something better than the Modulas. So I guess I’m just a snob- and old enough to embrace that.

One thing that both speakers did very well was to highlight good recordings versus bad. I might even go so far as to say that the difference between a good recording and a bad one, played on either speaker, sounded more different than either speaker on any given track.

That was fun- thanks again, fellas!

-Jon


Photo of the setup:

Image not available

[JonW]

Or, Jon, if you want me to stop by off 65 on my way back, that might be possible too.

Definitely! :T I like the Modula’s but I think I’d like them much more if they had more sparkle from the tweeters. People here seem to think the Seas version might have what I’m looking for. So I’d love to hear them. If they are that much better, I’ll change over all my Modulas. The cabinet construction and finishing is where most of the work went, so swapping the tweeter and making new crossovers should be fine. I'll drop you a line.

[cjd]

Jon,

Your thoughts on the Ascends are very much in line with my own observations on them. As such, I'll have to agree even more that you would likely prefer one of the Seas tweeters, particularly the TBFC/G.

Glad y'all had a good time! I was up to my middle knuckles in chocolate...

C

[ThomasW]

Yanni? Yanni? Did someone really say Yanni?

Ok, turn-in your DIY speaker builder's card and go to the back of the line.... :B

If you want 'ethereal' synth music, please listen to Jean Micheal Jarre' or Kitaro instead....:wink:

[ssabripo]

good stuff guys! great info, and always a pleasure to hear fellow DIYers get together and share experiences! good stuff.

Ok, so now that it is pretty clear that overall, the MTs did a superb job, how about a quick rundown on Ryan's Subwoofer???

both Steve and JonW have the big ava18's.....now that you've listened to a large 2-driver setup, any comments? I'm particularly interested in the overall SQ, and not headroom. :T

[SteveCallas]

Nah, the dvd I am referring to doesn't sound anything like that stuff.

[rumatt]

It's too bad you didn't various amps / DAC's to try out. The Modula's might be a perfect fit for something like the DAC1, which many find too analytical, bright, etc.

I tried out multiple DAC's with my Paradigms, and I've recently ordered a Paradisea (tube dac) because I want to reduce the brightness / details / harshness, etc. One of the Seas/Dayton DIY's might be right up my alley.

[HMenke]

Yanni? Yanni? Did someone really say Yanni?

Ok, turn-in your DIY speaker builder's card and go to the back of the line.... :B

Time to invoke "Man Law"... :B

[---k---]

Jon,

We weren't listening at 80db. It is hard to say what it was, since we didn't have the meter out for each song. But, what we did do was calibrate the Modulas so that Master Volume = 0 equaled 85db of pink noise. Then running the Ascends, we adjusted the Master Volume while playing the same pink noise until the meter read 85db, which was about 6db. So the Ascends were 6db more efficent.

Then, we typically listened to music at -15 to -18 on the Modulas and -20 to -23 on the Ascends. This should produce the same volume on the meter.

rumatt,
We would have loved to run a differnt amp and try a bunch of other gear, but we were listening for about 4 to 5 hours as it was. There just wasn't enough time. Steve was all begging to get out blind folds, pull my gear apart and use the Behringer amp, and do this and that. But yeah, I put the hammer down and just wanted to listen to each speaker and get a feel for what each one does before trying to make test everything under the sun. We had a great time, and I think that is what it is about. I don't want to get caught up in doing everything perfect to make it too much of a hassle to do again.

Chris and I noticed that the Dyns I had when he was over really started to come alive as they were fed more power. I'm guessing the Modulas are similar and could benifit for more power.

I think we're going to get together again soon, so next time we'll do a few more things and be more organized in what we listen to, rather than just jumping around as the spirit moved me.

[---k---]

Oh, and I kind of like Yanni in very small doses. And turning the TV off so you don't have to watch him helped me a lot.

[Dennis H]

Jon, about that "sparkle." We know your other speakers that you prefer have the tweeter boosted a bit. Rather than changing tweeters, you might want to just boost the output of the one you have. I haven't modelled it but it looks like making R3 smaller would do that. R3 in the stock RS28 crossover is 5 ohms. If you put another 5 ohm resistor in parallel with R3 using alligator clips, making R3 2.5 ohms, it should boost the highs some. That would be easy to try, and if you like it, you could experiment more to finalize things.

Edit: Rolex has been doing the same thing in his 2.5 way thread. He didn't like the 'flat' response and has been trying smaller tweeter resistors to get the highs where he likes them.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23211

[ThomasW]

Time to invoke "Man Law"... :B

Henry,

You're right, Man Law = just say no to Yanni ..... :T :B

[JonW]

Your thoughts on the Ascends are very much in line with my own observations on them. As such, I'll have to agree even more that you would likely prefer one of the Seas tweeters, particularly the TBFC/G.

OK, I *really* want to hear the Seas verion. Maybe cobbpa might swing by with a pair. That would be super.

Glad y'all had a good time! I was up to my middle knuckles in chocolate...

Sorry we missed you. Hope you had a nice holiday break.

Yanni? Yanni? Did someone really say Yanni?

Ok, turn-in your DIY speaker builder's card and go to the back of the line.... :B

:rofl: :rofl:

[JonW]

Ok, so now that it is pretty clear that overall, the MTs did a superb job, how about a quick rundown on Ryan's Subwoofer???

both Steve and JonW have the big ava18's.....now that you've listened to a large 2-driver setup, any comments? I'm particularly interested in the overall SQ, and not headroom. :T

Sherv-
Steve and I posted some impressions in Ryan’s thread:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22453&page=6&pp=35

But really, Idunno… It’s so hard to compare. I’ve only used my sub for music so far. (Movies coming soon to a living room near… me.) Rooms are so different (shapes and Ryan’s concrete floor, mine is wood). The movie clips Ryan showed (Blackhawk Down, Finding Nemo) I haven’t heard on my sub yet. We didn’t listen to much music with the sub (speakers were mostly run full range). So I really can’t tell any differences between the subs at this stage. Sorry. Ryan’s certainly has lots of output. That much I’m quite sure of.

[JonW]

Jon, about that "sparkle." We know your other speakers that you prefer have the tweeter boosted a bit. Rather than changing tweeters, you might want to just boost the output of the one you have. I haven't modelled it but it looks like making R3 smaller would do that. R3 in the stock RS28 crossover is 5 ohms. If you put another 5 ohm resistor in parallel with R3 using alligator clips, making R3 2.5 ohms, it should boost the highs some. That would be easy to try, and if you like it, you could experiment more to finalize things.

Edit: Rolex has been doing the same thing in his 2.5 way thread. He didn't like the 'flat' response and has been trying smaller tweeter resistors to get the highs where he likes them.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23211

Dennis-
I like this idea a lot. :T A little tweaking and all. Thanks.

Hmmm…

[chasw98]

Dennis-
I like this idea a lot. :T A little tweaking and all. Thanks.

Hmmm…

Buy the multimeter....
Buy the multimeter....
Buy the multimeter....

[JonW]

Buy the multimeter....
Buy the multimeter....
Buy the multimeter....

Man, you people are worse than my neighborhood crack dealer. : I just ordered a microphone, Mobilepre, mic stand, cables... an Art CleanBox, more cables... And you're pushing the multimeter, too. I still haven't decided what my next speaker project will be or when I'll start it. Once that's figured out, I'll order the meter as soon as I know I'm about to make another crossover.

[cjd]

Maybe next time y'all can come up and include my diminuitive 3-ways in the fun. I have at least a few amps here as well, and *may* get off my tail to work on more (sitting in a state of "needs troubleshooting" all over my table and floor in the basement...)

C

[SteveCallas]

Maybe next time y'all can come up and include my diminuitive 3-ways in the fun

Count me in. Can next time = around Christmas?

[cjd]

bwaaaahaha... Christmas?

um... I'm not available for anything like this till mid-January I think.

C

[---k---]

Chris,

Which tweeter did I hear in your MTMs? I thought it was the RS28, but I was just poking around and noticed you have version of your MTM w/ the Seas tweeter.

[cjd]

I have the Seas 27TDFC in my MTM's

I am (gasp) pondering a crossover variant for the big towers using this tweeter.

C

[---k---]

Chris,

Ahhhhh. I thought you had the RS28 in the speakers that I listened to. That solves some of the questions I had in my head.

Next time you find yourself with nothing to do on the weekend, let me know and maybe we can get together (well after the new year).

[SteveCallas]

Ryan, if I'm not mistaken, I got the impression from you that cjd's MTMs sounded a lot more like the 340s than the Modula MTs did, yes?

[cjd]

Steve: to my ears (if memory serves), my MTM's were: more detailed, fuller, richer, deeper, and with a broader stage. The RS150's don't reach quite as deep as the RS180, and I don't have full BSC (only ~4dB) which may make the Modulas a bit fuller besides on the bottom end. The tweeter difference could easily explain preferences - The RS28A is almost clinical.

[---k---]

Chris,
Yep, but your's had a similar sound to the Ascends. To me, it was like they were from the same family, with yours being like a step up or even newer better version.

But, Jon's Modula MT's sounded very different. I wouldn't say they were from the same family.

[SteveCallas]

A question for you electrical guys - as the discussion came up during our testing. Is there any way for us to switch speakers with zero risk of getting that popping sound and risk damaging the speakers aside from turning the receiver or amp off momentarily before each switch? If we paused the playback device and muted the processor, are we still at risk for this?

[chasw98]

A question for you electrical guys - as the discussion came up during our testing. Is there any way for us to switch speakers with zero risk of getting that popping sound and risk damaging the speakers aside from turning the receiver or amp off momentarily before each switch? If we paused the playback device and muted the processor, are we still at risk for this?

Steve:
If using a manual contact switch (as opposed to a relay) buy one with "make before break" contacts. That way the amp will not see a change in the load except momentarily and there shoud be no popping. I have successfully built a little rig using a pair of 4PDT relays that are activated by an X10 remote so that you can sit anywhere and switch. I experienced no popping at all.

Chuck

[jonathanb3478]

If using a manual contact switch (as opposed to a relay) buy one with "make before break" contacts.

The point here being to briefly parallel both speakers, then switch from the original to the new, correct?

My Parasound (or even my Adcom) could handle a pair of MTM's (or one of the 3-ways) being switched like that, but my receiver in the living room might complain with a shutdown. Even with that brief a 2-ohm (nominal) load.