My Modula MT’s are done. Impressions and many pics

[JonW]

Hey Fellas,

Sorry for the silence. I was out of town for a while and, go figure, all this work piled up. So I’ve been somewhat busy since my return.

First thing’s first: It was excellent to meet and hang out with Chuck and his wife. :T Thanks for all the hospitality. Nice to just relax with no time pressure. Now I can trash his speakers. :

The Seas MT’s do, indeed, sound very nice. If I could compare them to my standard RS MT's, I *definitely* prefer the Seas flavor. They are brighter and more fun than the standard RS MT’s I made. None of the 'flat' or 'dead' sound I didn't like on the standard RS's. Not too bright at all, either. But now that I’ve changed that resistor on my MT’s, I’d say the two speakers are very, very close. Maybe identical. If I had to try and tease out any difference, I might say that the integration of highs to mids/lows is a little better on my modded MT”s vs. the Seas. But that’s an opinion made by listening to my speakers a lot and then getting in the car, driving 1,300 miles, and then hearing Chuck’s speakers. Most definitely not a side-by-side comparison. So if anyone is trying to decide which version to make, I’d say the Seas and modded RS’s are pretty much the same. The standard RS sounds ‘dead,’ relatively speaking.

When my gal heard Chuck’s MT’s, she said she preferred them over my standard RS MT’s. Chuck was very excited. And I have since made her a doctor’s appointment to get her ears checked.


As far as the TMWW’s go… They’re also nice. They’ve got a *lot* of bass. More than I expected. We added the sub when listening to music and it did help things a little, but not much. For music, I think I’d be OK with no sub. One thing I liked was that you could almost feel the bass with some music. Like short pulses of air coming out at you. Chuck has really beefy amps running these things (300 W?). The only other time I experienced that was with some B&W 703 speakers that were also a 3 way design with 2 woofers. And they were being run by a pair of McIntosh 501 monoblock amps (500 W each). So it may be the 2 woofers and/or the massive power. Idunno, but it’s pretty nice.

Overall, the TMWW’s are a very nice package, especially when you factor in the cost. The highs, mids, lows, integration of it all, etc. was nice, but it didn’t grab me enough to compel me to put in the effort to build them. I would be 100% happy with them for a movie setup. But the snob in me thinks there may be better out there if you are looking for a 2 channel, no sub, full range setup for music only. I’m not sure what that speaker is, but I’m still looking. (And it looks like I will now try my hand at designing speakers toward that goal, starting with a simple MT.)

Chuck should post a photo of his front wall. His woodworking is stunning. The look of his 3 ways with the cabinet and center channel is really dramatic. You hardly notice the massive sub in the corner (seriously). It just all looks really nice. :T

[---k---]

Who designed the Seas Modula MT cross-over?

[Jim Holtz]

Overall, the TMWW’s are a very nice package, especially when you factor in the cost. The highs, mids, lows, integration of it all, etc. was nice, but it didn’t grab me enough to compel me to put in the effort to build them. I would be 100% happy with them for a movie setup. But the snob in me thinks there may be better out there if you are looking for a 2 channel, no sub, full range setup for music only. I’m not sure what that speaker is, but I’m still looking. (And it looks like I will now try my hand at designing speakers toward that goal, starting with a simple MT.)

Hi Jon,

Excellent comparison! You did hit on the toughest part of the whole deal. What can you build for $568 (drivers & crossover parts) that will sound better and do everything as well as the RS 3-ways? It'll be extremely tough to match that level of performance without spending a lot more.

Jim

[JonMarsh]

Who designed the Seas Modula MT cross-over?

The first version of the Modula MT was with the Seas H1189/27TDFC; the later version is with the Rsd28a, due to requests.

[chasw98]

Who designed the Seas Modula MT cross-over?

A variation by JonMarsh.

First thing’s first: It was excellent to meet and hang out with Chuck and his wife. :T Thanks for all the hospitality. Nice to just relax with no time pressure. Now I can trash his speakers. :

The pleasure was all ours, now trash away! :E

When my gal heard Chuck’s MT’s, she said she preferred them over my standard RS MT’s. Chuck was very excited. And I have since made her a doctor’s appointment to get her ears checked.

Are you sure she is the one that needs the appointment? :rofl:

One thing I liked was that you could almost feel the bass with some music. Like short pulses of air coming out at you. Chuck has really beefy amps running these things (300 W?).

600 watts. :T

Chuck should post a photo of his front wall. His woodworking is stunning. The look of his 3 ways with the cabinet and center channel is really dramatic. You hardly notice the massive sub in the corner (seriously). It just all looks really nice. :T

Thank you. I appreciate that!





Chuck

[2Below]

Did you ever take care of your finish problem. I don't know that I would have used lacquer over the tung oil unless I was absolutely certain that the oil was dry. This process can take from several days to more than a week to fully dry.

From my finishing experience, it appears that the lacquer reacted to something (tung oil) or it was sprayed too thick, at too much pressure or with the gun too close to the work. The good thing about lacquer is that you should be able to sand it down smooth and then respray. Once you got the mottled look, continuous coats of lacquer were only going to make things worse. You may need to start with 320 grit and work up from there (320-400-600-1200). You'll really need to polish lacquer with a rubbing compound if you want a high gloss finish. Lacquer dries so quick and it really doesn't have a chance to flow out like poly does.

One finish treatment that I like (and will use on my sub project) is a sanded tung oil finish. You wet sand with tung oil and progressively finer sandpaper (600-800-1000-1200-1500-2000) waiting for the finish to dry between coats/sanding steps. You need to use a sanding block to keep things flat. This process takes a long time but the results are fantastic. I'm attaching a picture of a jewlery box I'm finishing up for my wife for all to see. You get a great satin finish and the tung oil brings out the color of the wood nicely.

[Jim Holtz]

Hey Chuck!

You have really made a sweet looking and, I'm sure sounding system. I envy your wood working skills. ;x(

Jim

[JonW]

Chuck-
Do you have any photos taken from far back, like the far wall, so that you can see both main speakers, the screen, and the sub? It looks cool to see everything.

Hi Jon,

Excellent comparison! You did hit on the toughest part of the whole deal. What can you build for $568 (drivers & crossover parts) that will sound better and do everything as well as the RS 3-ways? It'll be extremely tough to match that level of performance without spending a lot more.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I realize the cost constraints. And for the money, they’re great. You won’t find anything even close in the stores. “This offer not available in stores!” But I have to wonder what this crowd could come up with if cost was not a major constraint. Say up that $568 budget by a factor of 5… or 10…

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jim. I realize the cost constraints. And for the money, they’re great. You won’t find anything even close in the stores. “This offer not available in stores!” But I have to wonder what this crowd could come up with if cost was not a major constraint. Say up that $568 budget by a factor of 5… or 10…

Jon,

You're making this way too easy. Line arrays of course! I have yet to hear anything I'd trade them for, and that's the truth as I hear it. Unbelievable dynamics and detail with walk around imaging. If I some day decide to sell the Omegarrays, it'll only be so I can build another line array.

Jim

[JonW]

Did you ever take care of your finish problem. I don't know that I would have used lacquer over the tung oil unless I was absolutely certain that the oil was dry. This process can take from several days to more than a week to fully dry.

From my finishing experience, it appears that the lacquer reacted to something (tung oil) or it was sprayed too thick, at too much pressure or with the gun too close to the work. The good thing about lacquer is that you should be able to sand it down smooth and then respray. Once you got the mottled look, continuous coats of lacquer were only going to make things worse. You may need to start with 320 grit and work up from there (320-400-600-1200). You'll really need to polish lacquer with a rubbing compound if you want a high gloss finish. Lacquer dries so quick and it really doesn't have a chance to flow out like poly does.

One finish treatment that I like (and will use on my sub project) is a sanded tung oil finish. You wet sand with tung oil and progressively finer sandpaper (600-800-1000-1200-1500-2000) waiting for the finish to dry between coats/sanding steps. You need to use a sanding block to keep things flat. This process takes a long time but the results are fantastic. I'm attaching a picture of a jewlery box I'm finishing up for my wife for all to see. You get a great satin finish and the tung oil brings out the color of the wood nicely.

Thanks for the tips. The wood in that photo looks super. :T Maple? I really like it a lot.

No, I didn’t get my finish fixed. I decided it was fine enough to leave it, so I can move on to the next project. From across the room, it still looks decent, I think. Just don’t look too closely when the light is bouncing right off it (ahem).

I can’t recall how long I let the tung oil dry before putting on the lacquer. It was at least overnight. And it was just a very thin wipe on coat. My guess for the problem is that it was too thick- both by sprayer and by brush. But I tried thinning it out 1:1 with lacquer thinner when brushing. No better. For spraying, the viscosity out of the can was right in the range of the viscosity cup. Idunno… I’ll have to try something different next time.

One of the things I learned was that even though I read a book on finishing and followed the directions, I don’t have the experience to back it up. Not as easy as it looks. So my lack of experience here is hindering things.

For my sub, I was quite impressed with how the polyurethane I used (Zar, I think) really smoothed out on the second coat. But I didn’t like the yellowing from the poly. Not sure what I’ll try for the next speakers (or furniture) project.

[JonW]

Jon,

You're making this way too easy. Line arrays of course! I have yet to hear anything I'd trade them for, and that's the truth as I hear it. Unbelievable dynamics and detail with walk around imaging. If I some day decide to sell the Omegarrays, it'll only be so I can build another line array.

Jim

OK, so then I've got to hear a line array. :T I'm quite curious. But you don't see many DIY line array plans out there. At this stage, I think I'll need to hear any design before embarking on a build project. Except, of course, for the fun of trying to come up with my own design.

[Jim Holtz]

OK, so then I've got to hear a line array. :T I'm quite curious. But you don't see many DIY line array plans out there. At this stage, I think I'll need to hear any design before embarking on a build project. Except, of course, for the fun of trying to come up with my own design.

Jon,

If you want to drive west a ways, I'm in the Des Moines, Iowa area. You're more than welcome to come for a thorough listening session if you like. Nearfield listening is an expereience, IMHO.

Rick Craig at Selah audio is who I worked with on the Omegarrays (and many other designs too) and I would strongly recommend his designs. They're based on Dr. Jim Griffins research and implementation of line arrays designed for the home.

Good stuff! ;x(

Jim

[2Below]

Wood was some scrap flame maple I had laying around and walnut. Pictures don't really do justice to the finish. Everyone who's seen that type of finish wants to touch it. I just got done with a fireplace mantel with that technique. I've got quite a bit of finishing experience, wood and automobiles. I'll gladly trade any tips I can pass along in that area for DIY speaker tips

What a great website...

[Bri]

OK, so then I've got to hear a line array. :T I'm quite curious. But you don't see many DIY line array plans out there.

Roger Russell of McIntosh fame published plans in two articles in audioXpress for his first cheap line array. The first article was "“A Unique Stereo Column System” and the second was “Upgrading a Unique Stereo Column System”. I have not read either article so I can't comment on them. He now sells a really expensive commercial successor called the IDS-25.
http://www.roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm#single (bottom of the page)

[CraigJ]

But I have to wonder what this crowd could come up with if cost was not a major constraint. Say up that $568 budget by a factor of 5… or 10…

JonW, welcome back from under water and with that budget, you really need to visit Evil Twin. Oops, I bet your visit with Thomas will suffice. If you want a road trip, I'd be glad to join you on your ventures to Des Moines.

Regarding Poly, I've had very good luck with water based Polyurethane, 'cause it doesn't yellow with age. Four thin coats and you're good to go.

Good luck in you journey.

Craig

[---k---]

The first version of the Modula MT was with the Seas H1189/27TDFC; the later version is with the Rsd28a, due to requests.

Sorry about not knowing that Jon. I haven't made my way through the MT and MTM threads yet (just finished the WWMT thread after three days). I wasn't sure if you had just done the RSd28a version and someone else did the Seas version.


Do you smart people who have heard both or are able to do designs think that the differences is in the actual tweeter or in the cross-over? or 50/50%? or whatever?

[cobbpa]

Jim Griffin's line arrays are what I heard & mentioned to you, Jon...so I'd be willing to bet Jim Holtz's are similarly impressive. With your search for an end-all be-all, I'm curious as to what you'd think of them. Your Totems are a great pair of speakers; but the day I heard Griffin's line arrays I heard some other very impressive speakers, then Jim's were just on a completely higher level. Basically, I'm saying to make time & spend the gas money .

As a sidenote, your foray into speaker design crossed my mind this weekend as I was thinking about how I'd like to build a couple of small surround speakers (like what I describe in cjd's thread about his new project). I thought...maybe I could talk JonW into working on a small, wall-mountable TM and letting me hear what he comes up with . Just saying--I'd lend some hands if you needed box building help & such, too. Ha..my apologies for planning out your time.

[JonW]

Jon,

If you want to drive west a ways, I'm in the Des Moines, Iowa area. You're more than welcome to come for a thorough listening session if you like. Nearfield listening is an expereience, IMHO.

Rick Craig at Selah audio is who I worked with on the Omegarrays (and many other designs too) and I would strongly recommend his designs. They're based on Dr. Jim Griffins research and implementation of line arrays designed for the home.

Good stuff! ;x(

Jim

Jim-
Thanks for the kind offer. No idea when I’ll be anywhere near Des Moines next, but I’ll certainly let you know ahead of time. I haven’t been out there in 4 or 5 years. Likewise, you’re welcome to have a listen at my place if you’re in the neighborhood.

You’ve got me quite interested to hear some line arrays. I recently heard some tall ribbon speakers at CraigJ’s place. I thought the large size (3-4’) of the tweeter might make the sound seem diffuse and fuzzy. It was really very nice. But I only had a quick listen. Maybe line arrays are what I’m looking for. Idunno…

Wood was some scrap flame maple I had laying around and walnut. Pictures don't really do justice to the finish. Everyone who's seen that type of finish wants to touch it. I just got done with a fireplace mantel with that technique. I've got quite a bit of finishing experience, wood and automobiles. I'll gladly trade any tips I can pass along in that area for DIY speaker tips

That maple is really pretty. Got any more info on this finishing method? How long to let the tung oil dry before doing the next coat? Do you have the tung oil on really thick, snad, then wipe it off? Looks like maybe 6 steps of progressively finer sand paper? Any type of sand paper you recommend?

What a great website...

Yup, this place is excellent. :T

[JonW]

JonW, welcome back from under water and with that budget, you really need to visit Evil Twin. Oops, I bet your visit with Thomas will suffice. If you want a road trip, I'd be glad to join you on your ventures to Des Moines.

Regarding Poly, I've had very good luck with water based Polyurethane, 'cause it doesn't yellow with age. Four thin coats and you're good to go.

Good luck in you journey.

Craig

Hey Craig!

Yes, I’m hoping the visit to Thomas’ to be an educational (and fun social) experience.

So does the water poly make for nice coats? I was pretty impressed with that aspect of the regular poly that I used. Just with a brush it got to be pretty smooth just on the second coat.

See you!

-Jon

Roger Russell of McIntosh fame published plans in two articles in audioXpress for his first cheap line array. The first article was "“A Unique Stereo Column System” and the second was “Upgrading a Unique Stereo Column System”. I have not read either article so I can't comment on them. He now sells a really expensive commercial successor called the IDS-25.
http://www.roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm#single (bottom of the page)

Interesting. Has anyone heard these? At this point I think I want to hear speakers before I invest the effort to make them.

[JonW]

Do you smart people who have heard both or are able to do designs think that the differences is in the actual tweeter or in the cross-over? or 50/50%? or whatever?

Hey Ryan,

Sorry, but I can’t answer that- don’t really know. But I found something interesting and relevant at Craig’s place. He had a small ribbon tweeter in his Arvos. The highs were pretty good. Then he put the RS tweeter in there. The highs really dropped out a lot. It sounded kinda dead. But then he just cranked the highs up a little in his digital crossover. And the highs were back where they were before, but with a different tweeter. For what it’s worth…

So might we talk you into building something? And what might be toward the top of your list now?

Jim Griffin's line arrays are what I heard & mentioned to you, Jon...so I'd be willing to bet Jim Holtz's are similarly impressive. With your search for an end-all be-all, I'm curious as to what you'd think of them. Your Totems are a great pair of speakers; but the day I heard Griffin's line arrays I heard some other very impressive speakers, then Jim's were just on a completely higher level. Basically, I'm saying to make time & spend the gas money .

Hi Phillip,

Sounds compelling. I’ll have to find a way to listen to these things.

As a sidenote, your foray into speaker design crossed my mind this weekend as I was thinking about how I'd like to build a couple of small surround speakers (like what I describe in cjd's thread about his new project). I thought...maybe I could talk JonW into working on a small, wall-mountable TM and letting me hear what he comes up with . Just saying--I'd lend some hands if you needed box building help & such, too. Ha..my apologies for planning out your time.

I’ve got a few small projects to finish up at home first. (I built my screen this past weekend- yay!) When they’re all done, I’ll start with the speaker design. A simple MT to begin with. And when they’re done, of course you’re welcome to come have a listen and see if they’re anything you’d be interested in building. Maybe it would be pretty easy to have with and without BSC. We’ll see what things model to. Maybe I could do measurements of the drivers in a cabinet and an infinite baffle as well. So far, I’m still in the middle of reading all the driver testing results from JonM, JohnK, and MarkK. Things should progress more once I pick the 2 drivers. I’ll probably buy premade cabinets, so that should cut down on the build time dramatically. But I work slowly (free time is scarce). It’ll be fun and interesting no matter what happens.

-Jon

[---k---]

Hey Ryan,

So might we talk you into building something? And what might be toward the top of your list now?
-Jon

Yeah, I think this summer I may have to take the plunge and build some speakers. I'm not sure which ones yet. I was thinking the NatPs, then I got convinced to build the WWMT speakers like Chuck's. I was thinking these would be good so I could move the cross-over on my sub down to 40-60hz. And then I started thinking about the bass response in my room and how I get a big 55-70hz hump, and thinking I can't eq this out of the mains (as easily). And then Thomas said that he thinks the MTM's with a couple of bass bins is better. Oh, so many compromises. Maybe I should just build speakers like King Pins and be done with it. (never going to happen)

It needs to warm up a bit so I can work in the garage and get glue and stain to dry. Then I need to get that rack built, and an end table. After that, I'll probably see if Jim will extend me an invite to his place and listen to both and go from there.

[Jim Holtz]

After that, I'll probably see if Jim will extend me an invite to his place and listen to both and go from there.

Ryan,

If I'm the Jim you're talking about, I have Seas Modula M/T's, Natalie P's, Seas RS 3-ways and a Selah Audio custom design monitor sized 3-way called the JH3 Reference that tied with Salk Sound Veracity QW's for top honors in the Unlimited class at the 2003 Iowa DIY event. Any or all can be listened to.

These are all for sale so some may (hopefully) be gone when it's time for you to visit. I have waaaay to many speakers in house. Then of course, I also have the Omegarrays as my reference system.

Yes, I do have another project under way that should top all but the Omegarrays, I think. We'll see.

To answer your comment, yes, I'd be happy to host a listening session if you and others want to make the trip to Des Moines. If you've not heard a Squeezebox, I also use it as one of my source components. I can also do it the old fashioned way too.

Jim

[JonW]

Jim-

Maybe a philosophical question... but if you have reference speakers that you like so much, why do you keep making smaller ones of lesser capability? Just curious.

Yeah, I think this summer I may have to take the plunge and build some speakers.

Yay. :T I agree that you should think a lot about what to build. And listen to a lot of speakers so you know what you're getting into. Because when you finally build a pair, you want to know that they will be really great. Especially if you don't get a chance to upgrade later on.

It needs to warm up a bit so I can work in the garage and get glue and stain to dry.

You're not complaining about this winter, are you? In all my years of living in places with winter, I've never seen one this warm. It's amazing.

[---k---]

Yes, your the Jim of the hour. I knew about your stash of speakers, and have seen your open invites before. I would love to make my way out to Des Moines, but its still a 5 hour drive. I may just have to suck it up though, because I really would love to hear some of these designs before making a decision on what to build.

[Jim Holtz]

Jim-

Maybe a philosophical question... but if you have reference speakers that you like so much, why do you keep making smaller ones of lesser capability? Just curious.

Jon,

Have you been talking to my wife? That's the same question she asks. :rofl:

Actually, you're at the stage I was when I 1st got into DIY. I'd been building my system for close to 20 years at the time. I've been chasing high end audio for a long time. I had worked my way up to expensive commercial speakers that lost two ribbons (planars actually) two mid tweeters, one cone mid and a rear firing tweeter due to a preamp I'd purchased off Ebay that had an issue I wasn't aware of. It is very disconcerting to watch fire come out of your drivers and smell magic blue smoke. :M

Including shipping and the cabinet work required to make the new planars work because the ones like I had were no longer available, I dropped $850 to have them repaired. When they came back, they sounded like crap. I worked with the company that shall remain un-named to correct it and they just got worse. I finally became disgusted, sold the speakers and sought alternatives.

The 1st pair I built cost a fortune because I ignored the excellent advice of Dennis Murphy and would only buy the most expensive of everything. Everybody knows if something costs more, it's better, correct? :W They were loaded with Blackhole 5, very expensive crossover components, etc. I liked them a lot but I managed to get bitten by the bug. Next up was a center channel by Selah Audio, then surrounds, yada, yada, yada.

The line arrays came about 3 years ago. I didn't build anything for about 1 1/2 years but I again got the bug. My building today is just for fun. I love the arrays and I don't foresee me drifting away from line arrays for a very long time if ever. They reproduce music and home theater the way I think it should be reproduced. They fit me in other words. Some folks are awed by them and others aren't. I've even had an Orion owner become entralled with line arrays for a while but just couldn't pull away from that di-pole imaging. They were quite envious of the detail and dynamics however. :T

So, now my ugly secret is out. My name is Jim and I'm a speakerholic. ops:

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Yes, your the Jim of the hour. I knew about your stash of speakers, and have seen your open invites before. I would love to make my way out to Des Moines, but its still a 5 hour drive. I may just have to suck it up though, because I really would love to hear some of these designs before making a decision on what to build.

It's not a bad drive. Just consider it a long day trip. Long ago when I was trying to find that perfect commercial speaker, my wife and I would take off on weekend get aways just to listen to speakers and then spend the night in what ever city we drove to and party. You know, good food, good wine etc. and then drive home the next day. We hit most of the major cities in the Midwest and had a lot of fun shopping for speakers.

Let me know if/when you'd like to come over for a listen.

Jim

[---k---]

Yeah, but Des Moines isn't really one of the "major cities in the Midwest"

Need to get some other projects done. But, I think late spring/early summer I might be at that point where I have to make a decision about what I want to build and will be needing to listen. We'll see.


And Jon, I think I'm just as interested in building a pair of speakers for the project of building something and for the sense of accomplishment of building awesome speakers as to actually listen to them.

[chasw98]

Have you been talking to my wife? That's the same question she asks. :rofl:

Boy, can I relate to that! One speaker for me, one project for her. But I need a stereo pair, Honey!!!!

It is very disconcerting to watch fire come out of your drivers and smell magic blue smoke. :M

The world runs on magic blue smoke.

So, now my ugly secret is out. My name is Jim and I'm a speakerholic. ops:

Jim

It really does sound like we need to go to Des Moines and take you to a BB so that you can listen to some speakers that start with B and end with E. That will reaffirm your convictions.

Chuck

[Jim Holtz]

Yeah, but Des Moines isn't really one of the "major cities in the Midwest"

Need to get some other projects done. But, I think late spring/early summer I might be at that point where I have to make a decision about what I want to build and will be needing to listen. We'll see.


And Jon, I think I'm just as interested in building a pair of speakers for the project of building something and for the sense of accomplishment of building awesome speakers as to actually listen to them.

Ryan,

I'm hurt. Des Moines not a major city? It is in Iowa. Just because Chicago has more people than the whole state of Iowa doesn't mean we're hicks ya know. Think of Des Moines as a suburb of Chicago where people don't lay on the horn and yell out the windows of their cars making hand signals. :rofl:

Sorry, I just couldn't pass that one up....

Yes, Des Moines is a small city in comparison to the other large Midwestern cities but it's not hard to find things to do. Lot's of great places to eat and drink if you're so inclined. Plenty of theaters and the symphony if you're looking for a little refinement.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

It really does sound like we need to go to Des Moines and take you to a BB so that you can listen to some speakers that start with B and end with E. That will reaffirm your convictions.

Chuck

I think that's against the law. It'd be like water torture or something.

Yes, I admit it is an addiction. I keep thinking the pair I'm building will be my last but I always find another design of interest.

Come up and listen to my line arrays and you'll be on a similar journey. :W

Jim

[2Below]

Orginally posted by JonW
That maple is really pretty. Got any more info on this finishing method? How long to let the tung oil dry before doing the next coat? Do you have the tung oil on really thick, snad, then wipe it off? Looks like maybe 6 steps of progressively finer sand paper? Any type of sand paper you recommend?

I usually dry sand to 320. You apply the tung oil fairly heavy and let it soak in for 10 - 20 minutes but don't let it dry. Then apply a little more tung oil and wet sand. You need to use sandpaper that's meant for wet sanding - it's going to be dark gray or black. I always use 3M paper - don't bother with the cheap paper you get at W-Mart. Wet sanding with the tung oil will cut through to the wood. Basically you're going to fill the poors in the wood with a slurry of tung oil and wood. You don't want to let the finish dry while your sanding so keep adding more oil as needed. You really can't have too much oil while sanding. How long to sand is kind of done by feel. You want to keep sanding with the current grit of paper until all the previous sanding marks are gone. Wipe off the finish at this point with a lint free rag and let dry overnight. Continue with the next finer grit of paper. This process can take a long time depending on how smooth/glossy you want your project to be.

Some people may say to use steel wool. I really try to avoid that when possible as small fibers tend to get stuck in the wood and can rust.

[---k---]

Ryan,

I'm hurt. Des Moines not a major city? It is in Iowa.
Jim

I grew up in Indiana, so who am I to judge.

[Jim Holtz]

I grew up in Indiana, so who am I to judge.

Well, Indianapolis isn't exactly Podunk Center.

I was just kidding in my previous post of course. Des Moines is tiny in comparison to the major cities. The plus side is few traffic jams, lots of open space and nice clean air. Too darn cold in the winter though.

Jim

[---k---]

nice clean air
Jim

My wife grew up in a place like Iowa. I'm not sure I would consider the air to be, "nice" and "clean". Wheeeweeee!

[JonMarsh]

My wife grew up in a place like Iowa. I'm not sure I would consider the air to be, "nice" and "clean". Wheeeweeee!

Well, compared with Newark, New Jersey....

[Chris7]

Some people may say to use steel wool. I really try to avoid that when possible as small fibers tend to get stuck in the wood and can rust.

I agree with this. Steel wool is a no-no, especially on porous woods. However, maroon synthetic wool works very well. If you have trouble finding it at local wood stores, auto parts stores usually stock it. I use the 3M stuff.

[JonW]

I usually dry sand to 320. You apply the tung oil fairly heavy and let it soak in for 10 - 20 minutes but don't let it dry. Then apply a little more tung oil and wet sand. You need to use sandpaper that's meant for wet sanding - it's going to be dark gray or black. I always use 3M paper - don't bother with the cheap paper you get at W-Mart. Wet sanding with the tung oil will cut through to the wood. Basically you're going to fill the poors in the wood with a slurry of tung oil and wood. You don't want to let the finish dry while your sanding so keep adding more oil as needed. You really can't have too much oil while sanding. How long to sand is kind of done by feel. You want to keep sanding with the current grit of paper until all the previous sanding marks are gone. Wipe off the finish at this point with a lint free rag and let dry overnight. Continue with the next finer grit of paper. This process can take a long time depending on how smooth/glossy you want your project to be.

Some people may say to use steel wool. I really try to avoid that when possible as small fibers tend to get stuck in the wood and can rust.

Excellent tips- thanks! This sounds really interesting. I may have to give this a try for my next project. It also sounds pretty easy. Then again, so didn't most things in that book I read.
Many can just be tedious.

Does this finish get tough when you have many corners, facets, or many sides? I'd think all that sanding could be trouble at corners.

Also, does all the tung oil darken the wood a lot? Tung oil can do that. And you're adding a lot of oil. But the maple still looked pretty light in your photo.

One more: Can you use this with veneer? Or is that too thin with all the sanding?

Last night, I got a few minutes to sit in a dimly lit room and listen to a few songs, relaxing. From across the room, without too much light, the lacquer finish on my speakers looked pretty decent.

[JonW]

Jon,

Have you been talking to my wife? That's the same question she asks. :rofl:

Actually, you're at the stage I was when I 1st got into DIY.

Jim-
Thanks for the perspectives. Just curious. I know where I am at the beginning of my "speaker journey" but I don't know where I'll end up. Maybe your experiences are some predictions.

I'm lucky enough to have a gal that actually encourages me to take on more projects like building speakers. "You enjoy it. It makes you happy. You should do it more..."

And Jon, I think I'm just as interested in building a pair of speakers for the project of building something and for the sense of accomplishment of building awesome speakers as to actually listen to them.

Excellent attitude. :T I suspect most, if not all, of us here are the same way. I am.
I’m happy to help you pick out what the project should be. Like I said, I recommend thinking about it a lot before deciding. Especially if you’re pressed for time or won’t be able to upgrade for a while.