Using both balanced and RCA outputs on SSP

[Nolan B]

This set up may seem a little strange, but I think I can get it to work for me. Downstairs I have have my SSP 600 connected to my 5100 using the balance outputs. I decided to buy a pair of B&O beolab 8000 speakers for a listening room upstairs. Since these speakers are active all I did was connect them to the RCA output on the SSP and rigged up one of the triggers to switch the speakers on and off when i want to listen up stairs or have all speakers on for a party. Essentially both the balanced and RCA outputs are being used.

I ran into one problem. The gain is different. I guess because im using balanced outputs for the downstairs speakers vs the RCA outputs for upstairs I am hearing the downstairs speakers as being much lauder then the upstairs speakers. Without recommending totally changing everything can someone recommend an idea?

Here are two I am thinking

1.) use balanced to rca cables to essentially make the balanced cables no longer balanced and connect them to the amp via RCA...that should kill the extra gain and can be bought cheap from monoprice.

2.) add a volume control in the between the SSP and the active speakers. Perhaps something like this?

http://www.goldpt.com/sa1.html

any other ideas?

[beden1]

This set up may seem a little strange, but I think I can get it to work for me. Downstairs I have have my SSP 600 connected to my 5100 using the balance outputs. I decided to buy a pair of B&O beolab 8000 speakers for a listening room upstairs. Since these speakers are active all I did was connect them to the RCA output on the SSP and rigged up one of the triggers to switch the speakers on and off when i want to listen up stairs or have all speakers on for a party. Essentially both the balanced and RCA outputs are being used.

I ran into one problem. The gain is different. I guess because im using balanced outputs for the downstairs speakers vs the RCA outputs for upstairs I am hearing the downstairs speakers as being much lauder then the upstairs speakers. Without recommending totally changing everything can someone recommend an idea?

Here are two I am thinking

1.) use balanced to rca cables to essentially make the balanced cables no longer balanced and connect them to the amp via RCA...that should kill the extra gain and can be bought cheap from monoprice.

2.) add a volume control in the between the SSP and the active speakers. Perhaps something like this?

http://www.goldpt.com/sa1.html

any other ideas?

Use a splitter for balanced connections to split the signal from the balanced outputs to power the two sets of speakers?

[RebelMan]

Setup a remote ZONE. Assign the same input to the remote ZONE (upstairs) that the main system (down stairs) is using and apply trims as necessary to compensate for gain mismatches. NOTE: Volume control is independent. After you set the trim levels for the main system you should be able to set the volumes for both locations to the same value to get balanced output.

[Nolan B]

Use a splitter for balanced connections to split the signal from the balanced outputs to power the two sets of speakers?

I thought about this but could only do it form the RCAs because the speakers dont have balanced inputs. Im worried if do it from the RCA to much of the signal may be lost.

[Nolan B]

Setup a remote ZONE. Assign the same input to the remote ZONE (upstairs) that the main system (down stairs) is using and apply trims as necessary to compensate for gain mismatches. NOTE: Volume control is independent. After you set the trim levels for the main system you should be able to set the volumes for both locations to the same value to get balanced output.

I should have said this from the start. This is what I originally wanted to do, but it seems my zone output doesnt work, or at least I dont know how to use it. I plugged the RCAs into the zone output, hit the zone button on the remote and selected the same source which was active on my downstairs speaker made sure zone was set to on, but there was no audio.

Why are the zone plugs both black instead of white and red to signify left and right? Am I using them wrong?

[RebelMan]

The color of the RCAs does not matter as long as you have the cables plugged into the correct L/R connector. Make sure the volume for the zone is up. It is down (0) by default.

[Nolan B]

The color of the RCAs does not matter as long as you have the cables plugged into the correct L/R connector. Make sure the volume for the zone is up. It is down (0) by default.

I found out the problem with the zone output. According to Classe the zone output is only active with analog sources not digital. That alone makes it not an option worth considering.

So back to square one.

[RebelMan]

What input (source) are you using (selected)?

[Nolan B]

What input (source) are you using (selected)?

I tried it both with my music run through my apple TV so (optical), and with my cable box (coax).

[wettou]

I tried it both with my music run through my apple TV so (optical), and with my cable box (coax).

HDMi works great

[Nolan B]

HDMi works great

SSP 600

[wettou]

SSP 600

Sorry I tough this was SSP-800

[RebelMan]

I don't think a Y-connector will help completely. Even if you went with all single-ended (RCA) cabling there is going to be a mismatch of input sensitives between the two amplifiers. I have a crazy idea, not sure if it will work but it may be worth a try. Connect the RCA outputs from the SSP to a pair of analog inputs on the SSP. Then set the source for the remote ZONE to that input. Implement the other suggestions I made for setting up the zone and see what you get. This should circumvent the digital limitations you noted plus add some flexibility. You'll have trim capabilities for the new input that you wouldn't have otherwise.

[Nolan B]

I don't think a Y-connector will help completely. Even if you went with all single-ended (RCA) cabling there is going to be a mismatch of input sensitives between the two amplifiers. I have a crazy idea, not sure if it will work but it may be worth a try. Connect the RCA outputs from the SSP to a pair of analog inputs on the SSP. Then set the source for the remote ZONE to that input. Implement the other suggestions I made for setting up the zone and see what you get. This should circumvent the digital limitations you noted plus add some flexibility. You'll have trim capabilities for the new input that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Actually your idea is border line between genius and crazy.

Why not i guess?


I take it the Zone input/output is simply a passthrough? In theory this should work...in practice I have a feeling I might start a fire. Ill try it first thing tomorrow morning and report back.

[Nolan B]

Sorry I tough this was SSP-800

i wish.. :roll:

one day

[RebelMan]

Actually your idea is border line between genius and crazy.

Why not i guess?


I take it the Zone input/output is simply a passthrough? In theory this should work...in practice I have a feeling I might start a fire. Ill try it first thing tomorrow morning and report back.

You won't start a fire because the voltages are really low. However, you need to be mindful of what you are doing so as not to overload the input circuits. The MAX voltages between the input and outputs differ by 5 Vrms so you don't want to over drive the volume.

Here are some suggestions to consider...

• BEFORE you make the connections, set the volume to null for the main system and the remote zone and select the source inputs for each location.

• Power off the SSP and make the connections.

• Power on the SSP and set the remote zone volume to half scale (50).

• Slowly raise the master volume until you can hear each location play. For now do not exceed 50 units on absolute scale (0-100 units) of the master volume (you may need to change the setting in system setup).

• Use an SPL meter and level the remote zone to match the main system. Use the remote zone trims to compensate as much as you can. If there isn't enough degree of movement then adjust the remote zone volume to account for that.

• If everything goes well you will not only be able to play at the same SPLs but control everything with the master volume.

Again be careful not too get carried away with the volume. Take your time learning the comfort level of the volume limits and your SSP's tolerances.

[RebelMan]

dupe

[Nolan B]

Just before I attempt this. I ran the idea past Tom at Classe and his email response was to not do it. He didnt say why, but just "You should not feed an SSP analog output into an SSP analog input. Ideally you should check your sources and see if they also have analog outputs. You should then connect the sources both digitally and via analog."

What are your thoughts on why? Is he concerned about the potential issue that comes up if someone isnt careful as you pointed out with volume? Or just that officially its not recommended?

[wettou]

Just before I attempt this. I ran the idea past Tom at Classe and his email response was to not do it. He didnt say why, but just "You should not feed an SSP analog output into an SSP analog input. Ideally you should check your sources and see if they also have analog outputs. You should then connect the sources both digitally and via analog."

What are your thoughts on why? Is he concerned about the potential issue that comes up if someone isnt careful as you pointed out with volume? Or just that officially its not recommended?

I would listen to Tom because if you damage your unit doing what RebelMan suggest he is not going to pay for the repairs.

This is why it would be nice to have Classé on this board

[RebelMan]

It could have unpredictable results that's why you need to err on the side of caution with the volume as you approach this. It's an unusual solution for an unusual problem. If you can address this with multiple source inputs then that would be safer because the MAX output voltages of those sources do not breach the input voltages of the SSP. If his suggestion doesn't work the you'll have no other option as far as I can see. It's a risk.

[Nolan B]

It could have unpredictable results that's why you need to err on the side of caution with the volume as you approach this. It's an unusual solution for an unusual problem. If you can address this with multiple source inputs then that would be safer because the MAX output voltages of those sources do not breach the input voltages of the SSP. If his suggestion doesn't work the you'll have no other option as far as I can see. It's a risk.

I tried it and the end result is that even with the zone volume set to max it still plays to low as compared to the speakers in the main room. Unfortunately there does not seem to be an option to adjust the trim levels for just the second zone.

interesting experiment, but im going to have to find something else.

[Srrndhound]

Just before I attempt this. I ran the idea past Tom at Classe and his email response was to not do it. He didnt say why, but just "You should not feed an SSP analog output into an SSP analog input. Ideally you should check your sources and see if they also have analog outputs. You should then connect the sources both digitally and via analog."

What are your thoughts on why? Is he concerned about the potential issue that comes up if someone isnt careful as you pointed out with volume? Or just that officially its not recommended?

He is concerned with the possibility of creating an oscillator. That will not happen unless there is a path where the output finds its way back to its own input. I cannot see that path happening in the setup Rebelman suggested, but if for some reason, someone comes along, when you least expect it, and selects the same input used to feed the zone, then you have the path. You might not hear any audio at first, so might innocently advance the master volume, and when you reach unity gain input/output, it will squeal like a pig. :hb

The way to avoid that is never define or use that input--those physical input jacks, in ANY source accessible to the main SSP selector, if that is ossible at all (can you define a source for the Zone that is not accessible to the main??). Even if so, that will still take some discipline and strategically placed post-it notes as reminders. I can see why Tom recommends not doing it. Murphy happens. ops:

BTW, it will not cause damage to the SSP, as all analog inputs must be designed to accept overvoltages without damage (not without distortion, though). It will cause pain and possibly damage to your hearing/speakers since the output will increase until it clips. It will not be pretty.

Alternative: How different are the SPLs if you drive both sets of speakers from a Y-output on the RCAs? (I don't like the idea of an RCA--XLR converter cable as that will probably tie the - audio pin to ground, messing up the feed into the downstairs amp.) If the Y-split is still too loud downstairs, then your original idea for an external volume control will do the trick.

[Nolan B]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I think im left with an external volume control as the best option.

It seems that the zone volume control can never be set higher then the main source when using the RCA outputs of the SSP plugged into an analog input. Fun to try, but no success.

[RebelMan]

You might not hear any audio at first, so might innocently advance the master volume, and when you reach unity gain input/output, it will squeal like a pig. :hb

BTW, it will not cause damage to the SSP, as all analog inputs must be designed to accept overvoltages without damage (not without distortion, though). It will cause pain and possibly damage to your hearing/speakers since the output will increase until it clips. It will not be pretty.

It was the fear of an Jimi Hendrix effect created by overdriving the circuits I had in my mind when making this suggestion to Nolan. ;b>

Glad to hear that didn't happen to him. :B