Building a home theater room

[ian1975]

I'm building a new house soon with a basement home theater room from A to Z. I want to use my Classé and B&W gear. Need help, don't know where to begin. Should I go 7.1 or 7.2 system? which projector?

Ian

Thanks

[htsteve]

ian1975,

It very good that you have the opportunity to built a dedicated HT room. We built one a couple of years ago. It is 11 X 16 feet.

As to your immediate question, 7.1 or 7.2. I have a 5.1 system, but wired for 7.1. I prefer discreet channels, as opposed to matrix. So I go with 5.1, as there is really no 7.1 material.

As to projectors, the good news is that the cost of very good performing projectors keeps coming down. You can spend $1000 on a projector, or 10X that. A good website is www.projectorcentral.com. There is a lot of good information.

As for room construction, here are some ideas.

* Dedicated 20 amp circuit(s).
* Redundant wiring for the projector. I use HDMI as primary and component as backup.
* Insulation
* 2X6 staggered stud construction
* Resilient channel between the studs and drywall (controls the very low bass).
* I used dark colors in our room. Black ceiling, dark navy side and rear walls and a dark grey screen wall. Maroon carpeting.

* Acoustic treatments (that a whole other topic)

* I can recommend some 'sound room' type drywall. Very Expensive, but works well.

Hope this helps.

[style]

Hallo ian1975,

go see this link for the correct projector position/place:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-HD950-projection-calculator-pro.htm

you can go with Your Projcetor and see how much feet/meters.
Nice link.

Style

[ian1975]

Thanks guys,

I love the B&W standing speakers sound but I like also the clean look home theater room with in wall speakers. Should I go for the esthetic or acoustic? Should I upgrade to the new B&W 800 series? which speakers for 7.1? should I buy the 2 classé monoblocks to drive the 802s? which projector screen that you recommend and what is the ideal size for a home theater room to watch movies and listen to music too?

Thanks

Ian

[htsteve]

Ian,

Three good topics.

I believe your first few sentences revolve around the rear speakers (you are pretty set up front). I certainly understand the esthetic consideration with in wall speakers. And B&W does make very nice ones. One major issue is of cource lack of flexibility. Once in, they are set. With traditional speakers, whether bookshelf or tower, there is placement flixibility. My rear speakers were in the corners before. Now they've been moved in a bit, with better results.

I love full towers as rear speakers. With the HD Audio formats on Blu Ray's, the rear speaker performance is more important than ever. I have 804S's. They match extremely well with my 802D's/HTM2D front, as you would expect. Other than the aluminum tweeter on them, they are tonally the same. The synergy is wonderful.

As you already have 705's, you might consider using these as the 6th and 7th speakers. Then get something from the 800 series for the rears. That would be quite nice. Very nice integration.

You might consider doing both (acoustic and in wall). Do the towers as the rears (sell/trade in the 705's) and for the 6th/7th speakers do inwall. Ideally, you would get something in the 800 range so everything meshes.

Next question was new amps for the 802D's. My path is very similar to yours. I have Mac equipment. I started out with the MC205 (5 X 200 watts), very similar to your CA5200. It sounds very good. It's still driving my center and rears. However, I have upgraded to the MC402 (2 X 400 watts and LOTS more current). The 802D's are decidedly improved. In all areas. Bass control and quality is much better. So much so, that the 802D's on some material, come close to competing with my JL Audio F112 sub. Soundstage width and depth is awesome. The sound is liquid, very smooth.

So, your idea of getting Classe monoblocks is a very good one. I would expect a similar performance improvement with something like the CAM400's. If you do get something like these for the 802D's, then you have the amp channels to do a 7.1 system.

Last question was on screens. So much depends on room size, planned projector, and seating position. I have a 100" screen in an 11 X 16 room. It fills most of my screen wall. It's really quite nice. However, we measured things out exactly, so my center channel and 802D's fit perfectly. You will likely need to do something similar.

As for the screen itself, one of the forum sponsors is Carada. They are quite helpful and make good performing screens for the money.


Hope this helps.

[sikoniko]

just to pipe in...

surround sound speakers:
Decisions will factor on what you are after. Once upon a time, I felt strongly about having full-range floor standers as rear speakers. After entering into the 800 series, I decided that floor standers were not necessary. I have been using SCM1's and now SCMs's for quite some time in a 7.1 system, and the blend amazingly well with the rest. I still believe there is no need for floor standers, with one exception... If you listen to ALOT of multi-channel audio you will benefit.

To this argument, I also believe in aesthetic appeal and your room goals. If you goal is to make the room theater-esque, floor standers around your room will take away from that. Like I said, I have SCMs's now (in a 7.1 configuration). If I had it to do over, I would have gotten in walls. Reason is that I have an 8 month old, and as he gets older, may be curious about hanging from them,, which will pull them off of the wall. an in wall would have cured that, and would not come in the wall the 10 inches or so each of the wall mounted speakers take up.

5.1 vs 7.1
This will depend on your room layout. My room is laid out like a rectangle, with two speakers on the side walls and two on the rear walls. I tried for 1 year with just side speakers, and it did not work out. There was just too much of a gap in the rear field. Added the two rear speakers blended that very nicely. A 5.1 will work best with the speakers in the corners. The bigger your room, the more difficult this will be to acheive, and may be why some people prefer using floor standers for rears in a 5.1 system: they will fill the space better - but not necessary when you use wall mounts in 7.1.

One sub or two?
Two subs are ALWAYS better than one. They will be more likely to pressure the room more equally and cancel nulls. They actually say 4 subs are even better yet (1 in each corner), but that becomes challenging for placement.

Amps:
I have a CA-3200 powering my L/C/R and I believe that while a better amp might help, with my current room size, it won't make much of a difference. adding it would be purely for reasons of keeping up with the jones's more than for actual ROI. I use a CA-5100 for rear and surround and this amp works great! Amp size will really depend on room size and SPL levels. The bigger the room, the more power it takes to fill it.

Goals:
Being someone that has built a dedicated room, I will say that it is good to have goals, and allow for flexibility to change them. Hindsight is always 20-20 and some things may be difficult to change later on...

hope it helped...

[wettou]

Build A "Room-Within-A-Room"

I'm building a new house soon with a basement home theater room from A to Z. I want to use my Classé and B&W gear. Need help, don't know where to begin. Should I go 7.1 or 7.2 system? which projector?

Ian Thanks

I would go 9.2 if you can using speakers spread by a 30 degree angle. This will give you five upfront two L and two R on center two side three back.

Just use the 5.1 configuration with Y conectors since 90% of all movies on Blu Ray are 5.1 this way you basically double the output.

Two subs will work great 4 is best but over kill unless you room is 2000 sq feet

I believe in using all the same speakers around regardless a great combo would be 9 B&W 805Di with two JL Fathom F122.

Then please invite us over

For acoustics the first thing is lower the noise level by building a room with in a room no sound coming in no sound coming out

How To Build A "Room-Within-A-Room"

Get the ultimate in sound-proofing by borrowing this idea used in professional recording studios.


One of the most effective ways to control the leakage of sound is to build a room within a room. Forcing the sound waves to have to travel through a double-wall, or a double-floor weakens it considerably. This also has the double effect of isolating the movie-goers within the room from sounds coming in from the outside.

I would use QuietRock 545THX



Lets say you have an existing room in your basement thats already framed and drywalled. To build your room within a room, you'd have to construct four new walls, a new ceiling, and a new floor. There has to be absolutely no contact between the inner and outside walls and ceiling. The whole thing would then have to "float" above the existing cement floor on special rubber footings. You would start by building a floor using similar techniques used to frame a wall. To reduce the amount of wasted space, the width and length of the new floor should be about 6 inches less than the width and length of the room it will be in. This will provide enough of a gap between the rooms to reduce the transmission of sound.

Instead of using drywall, you would use 3/4" plywood on the bottom of the new floor. You'd then fill the gaps between the studs with fiberglass insulation. You can also use special insulation products such as Owens Corning QuietZone and Roxul's Safe'n Sound which provide both fire resistance and sound deadening. Be sure to use a breathing mask and gloves when handling any fiberglass insulation product. Before finishing the floor with 3/4" plywood, mark off the location of each stud. These marks will help you easily find the studs later when you have to screw the walls to them.

www.quietrock.com


Build the new floor on 1/4" to 1/2" thick rubber isolation mats. These mats are designed to virtually eliminate the transmission of sound vibrations. They're usually a specialty item but can easily be purchased online.

Now that our room within a room has its new floor, its time to build the walls. You will frame each wall and hang drywall on the side that will be facing the gap. Raise each wall into position and screw them into the floor's studs using the markings you made earlier.

Regular ceilings in a house are built using ceiling joists. These are wooden members that span the width of a room and hold up the ceiling, roof, or floor of a house. In our case, we can get away with using 2x4's for our ceiling joists since we don't need to hold up anything other than the ceiling's drywall and some light fixtures. Its pretty hard to frame a completed ceiling and lift it into place so you'll have to build it piece by piece.

A wall has both a top plate and a bottom plate. Ceilings on the other hand have header joists to which the 2x4's are connected. Install a pair of header joists on two walls that oppose each other. Starting at one end of the room, screw a series of 2x4's between the header joists 16 inches on center.

When each wall and ceiling are framed and installed, its time to lay out your electrical wiring. I recommend you hire a professional electrician for this part of the project. With the electrical wiring completed and inspected, its time to install more sound insulating fiberglass insulation between the wall studs and in the ceiling.

You'll then finish the job by filling in the empty space between the exposed studs in the walls and ceiling with more fiberglass insulation. When done, you'd hang the rest of the drywall on the inside walls of your new room. You can rent a panel lift or use a T-brace to help lift the drywall to the ceiling. You can use a solid wood or steel door and you can install weather stripping to seal off any cracks.

With all this talk about insulation, you'd be right if you started to think our new room would get pretty warm. Make sure your AC doesn't rattle that would kill your room!!

Also for acoustic panels just treat the first order of reflections don't over do it or the room will be dead.

[sikoniko]

wettou's post is the best way to go, but can be very expensive, and will shrink the size of your room, so the original room would have to be of some significance to start with.

The best bet is to start with a list of goals and plan from there. we can help you if you want to bounce goal concepts off the board... you might want to move it to another thread and let us know where, since it isn't necessarily classe related. I'm interested in following your progress though!

[style]

Personaly I will make a 5.1 / 2.

ok, with a HT room a 7.2 will be nice but not sure necessary.


A GREAT 5.2 give you the best.

I have a Classe sistem CA5200 / CA2200 but I prefer make a 5.1 bi-amp L&R vs. a 7.1......

Style

[Classe4me]

I'm building a new house soon with a basement home theater room from A to Z. I want to use my Classé and B&W gear. Need help, don't know where to begin. Should I go 7.1 or 7.2 system? which projector?

Ian

Thanks

I would live by the philosophy of "have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!" I say this and would recommend wiring for 9.[ ]<< (insert #of subs here) at least. Even though there isn't any material to speak of now with that many discrete channels, you can pretty much guarantee that it's just a matter of time with the 3D advancements, and all that goes on in this industry to continually make it better, more exciting, and ultimately, allow the manufacturers to sell us addicts more electronics and ancillary toys! Also, by prewiring for the two extra fronts mounted high, you are prepared to have the effects of the falling rain, or crashing munitions. After all, we are only talking about some speaker wire runs that don't necessarily mean you have to spring for the extra effect speakers immediately.

I am running 5.1 now with good results, but am ready to go 7.1 when I feel the material is there to make it worthwhile to my ears. It totally depends upon the layout of your room as to whether or not you feel like you are getting the surround sound that you desire. It's almost comical of all the different diagrams out there that show a person where to place their speakers. Mine happen to be behind my head at approximately 45 degree angles, but they are in the back wall. I get a full, enveloping surround effect with Wilson Audio front, right, and center, and Pioneer Elite Architectural Series in-walls with their CST technology for imaging. My speakers are powered with all Classe, using a CA-5200, an SSP-600, a CDP-502 source player for CDs and DVDs, a Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD for Blu-ray duties, of which the Blu-ray discs are gaining huge momentum in my collection. I have totally become "ate up" with the Blu-ray bug. I am viewing on a Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD 60" plasma and love the picture, but with an approximate 14' seating position from the screen, I have now decided that bigger is better. I will likely never get rid of my Elite plasma, but I have purchased a projector, so that I can really have the feeling of being at "the big screen."

You asked about projectors and screens. Opinions are going to vary as much as budgets, and the sky is the limit on both. Just to toss a couple out there, I would tell you to look first at the JVC line if your budget allows it after all of the construction takes place, the theater is outfitted, and you have your sound equipment in place. I say it in that order because the room will be your most important piece of the puzzle, the sound system is next, as you will want to be mesmerized by amazing sound quality....you are at Club Classe right? And with that being said, why not look into the CT Series of the Classe line if you are going to do a true theater with no distracting electronics, led status lights, GUIs, meters, or whatever. Don't mistake this for saying that I don't love to stare at my Delta Series components and view them as works of art, but my equipment resides in my family room, where my kids, my wife, and Ozzie (my HUGE Ragdoll cat) hangs out. So no fancy sconces, no elevated platforms with theater seating for me just yet, but a very nice, very functional, pretty darned good sounding room. Also, for what it's worth, even though I have purchased a new projector, I am not projecting yet.

Okay, I derailed and got off track which I am very good at (gotta love Attention Deficit Disorder), so now it's time to get back on track. I think that speaker technology has put more emphasis on hidden and in-wall speakers more than any other sector. Just look at what B & W has done with in-wall, not to mention everybody else. Look at the newest in-wall subwoofers, with JL Audio now doing one in the Fathom line. With projector sales booming, home theaters being built and/or created at a very rapid pace, if it is your desire to have the true theater experience, I would want to place the electronics in a hidden from view location, with additional cooling directed to them, I would certainly want Classe, and would also go for hidden speakers. You can build cabinets, nooks, and crannies and place standard speakers inside, but at the end of the day, these speakers are not designed to live in a cabinet or a shelf. The speaker manufacturers have spent mega-bucks on R & D in getting the desired acoustic characteristics for in-wall/hidden speakers. Having them out of view will keep everyone's attention to the featured attraction. If you said you were wanting a listening room, then this would be a different story.

Back to projectors and screens. JVC makes a benchmark projector with the D-ILA technology. Both Anthem and Pioneer use JVC projectors and rebrand them. That should tell you something. No pot shots at any of the other extreme high-end projectors (some that start with an R), but a person doesn't have to break the bank any longer to get an image that can get up there and knock on the door of some of the grand old CRTs. If a person isn't a true "cinemaphile" and just wants a great picture without breaking the bank, I would strongly suggest you look at the Epson line. For the money, they are nothing short of amazing. I am talking spending $1500 to $2300 to get pretty amazing picture quality, not $7500 to $10,000. Look at the specs, look at the lumens and the contrast ratios. By all means, look at the lifespan and price of replacement lamps.

The new LED projectors are a unique piece that are a very interesting and intriguing choice, but for the output, the estimated lifespan, and the specs, you can buy a standard projector, replace the lamp every 2000-4000 hours depending on what you buy (do your homework!), enjoy years of viewing, and still have thousands in your pocket when you retire it, years after your buddy tossed his LED projector that he spent several times more for that had a 20,000 lamp(s) lifespan, with no ability to replace the lamp(s).

I can type all night about screens, but I can make this REALLY QUICK! I am not on the payroll, I do not own one (yet), do know that I will ever own one, but I will tell anybody I ever talk to about a screen to go to Screen Innovations and look at the Black Diamond and Black Diamond II. You can see them on You Tube and the will blow your mind. I might get blasted for this one, as a dedicated, light controlled theater should not have any problems with light, but if you don't look at it for anything other than the fact that there will not be a problem with reflected light (from the projector), the blackest blacks possible, contrast that will blow you away, then just check it out. I need an electric screen to come down in front of my plasma panel, and so far SI doesn't offer the Black Diamond line in anything other than fixed, so this is why I don't know if I will be able to work something out with one, but I have never seen anything screen related that impressed me like the videos showing and highlighting that screen on several different websites and YouTube.

In summation, prepare for the future, because it will be here probably by the time the theater is ready. Not saying your project will take that long, I'm saying technology comes that fast. That or time goes by so quickly.

Sorry for the novel, but you asked opinions and I think I gave you every one I had for the time being, and what I would likely do if I were starting from scratch. Just some rambling thoughts and ideas, I hope you can find some merit or value in any of them.

[ian1975]

Thank you guys,

I'm so stressed right now being in the process of selling our current house and building our dream and final home for my family...From the best quality/price ratio for the investment point of view, what do you suggest?

Sikoniko,what is your list of goals for this HT room? I trust your MBA skills. By the way, I have a 13 months son too, just walking for the last 2 months and he is so obsessed with the 802 tweeters...

For the room, I will bring htsteve and wettou ideas to the contractor. I plan building the room with this dimension 14 (W) X 20 (L) X 8 (h). I prefer to hide the electronics in the back but the cost of wiring the front speakers will be a pain. The wiring will be for 9.2 but the speakers are 7.2. The wiring should include internet access + home network, lightning, intercom, satellite and domotic. The ventilation conduct to the HT room has to be insolated from the sound (big challenge), I can't imagine the heat in the room with the Classé Amps + others electronic devices.

For the electronics, I will get the two Classé monoblocks, projector (JVC vs Epson), automatic retractable projector screen (brand?), bluray ( latest Denon vs Oppo vs Pioneer Elite)

For the speakers, I will trade in the 705 for the 805di, which B&W in-wall one is compatible for the 800 series? I don't know if my current 802 driver with match with the new 800 series. I read somewhere that there is not a huge difference between the new 802di and the 802d. I plan to add a JL audio F112 sub to my REL B2, I don't know if it will match and where to place the subs yet.

For the HT seats, I plan to create two rows of three seats each but I don't know which one yet. Finally, the wiring...brand? hdmi 1.4?

What do you guys think and suggest? Did I forget any major issue? I don't how much will cost roughly that HT room yet...90K?

Thanks

Ian

[sikoniko]

:T My wife's first goal was seating. We had to accomodate 6 people in two rows. My room size was fixed, so everything had to work around seating. Your room isn't that different from ours (18Lx12Wx8H). The two feet deep and two feet wide will be ideal for a similar setup to mine, but allow for more room along the sides and behind the rear seats and a bigger screen!.

Here is the trick... seating placement. Will you do stadium style with two rows, one behind each other? If you do two rows, you will want to elevate the second row. This will make floor mounted speakers a very tricky proposition. you must consider wall mount or in-wall mount as a must. if you go one row, you can have some flexibility, and consider floor standers, but will you be happy with limited seating? I have a three seat theater-esque style for front seats that recline, and a leather sofa in the back row. For my room, the sofa is only six inches away from the back wall, and less than ideal... but hey! my prime seat is perfect! just have to make sure people sitting back there don't hit the SCMs's... your room will probably accomodate 2 rows of 4 as long as you don't get oversized seats.

So, lets start with seating... what are your seating goals?

[ian1975]

It will be two rows of 3 seats stadium style. I'm asking if DBOX technology is worthed?

Ian