Ante's Statement II build Journey

[Renron]

Ante,
Excellent drawing, very professional to look at. I'll give you some ideas to help you out when it comes time to build (Whatever you choose to build)
1: You don't need as many holes as you have shown on the plans. Forget the small holes. Offset / stagger the large holes leave at least 5cm between them for strength.
2: If you build a curved speaker make the "Ribs" a solid piece so the seam won't show later. (it makes a difference) (everything makes a difference) I used 1/4" Italian bendy ply. Many layers glued in place and router trimmed later.
3: Don't use solid wood, I did and it twisted as it aged. I had to relief cut the twist. Pain in the A$S. Use Baltic Birch plywood.

I coerced Ante to come over here from the "Other" DIYaudi0 site. He liked the look of my curved Thors. I do too. They are now the L / R for my theater. They sound great where they are now. Ante has stated that he wants to build a Very nice sounding pair of speakers, I tried to talk him out of the Thor design because of the high $$$ and only fair performance by today's standards.
I'll just say it plain as I can, Ante, FIND A DIFFERENT SPEAKER TO BUILD!


Tek, thank you for joining in this thread, I felt you might be able to help guide him simply because of your close location and knowing where to source parts at a reasonable price. I've also watched your builds and they are first class. You Vikings got to stick together.

Jon, as always sound and practical advice. I hope he listens. (Jon is the ONE person you want to take advice from)

Steve, right as usual. Can you recommend a speaker between the Natalie P and the Ardent?
Maybe the Statement II s?

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statement_II_1.html

The Statement II s are the upgraded version for those who prefer paper drivers to metal cones. Statement s have metal cones.
I have built this as a Center Channel and will tell you it is Dynamic and clear, voices are natural and crisp. Superb bang for the buck.

Ron

[Ante]

They are forgotten Ron

Thanks for your feedback.

I think its clear that I have to find another speaker to build :W So the Thor is dead

That means Im back to the start, the good thing is that this time Im not alone This time I can get great help from you.
I am very happy for the time you use to help me on the right track to select the speaker I will be satisfied with.

What Im looking for in a speaker is that the sound is open, clean and honest.
I know what I want but not quite how to make the right choices without being able to line them up against each other and listen to them.
I listen to all kind of music. Celine Dion, Alan Walker, Bruce Springsteen Rock, Pop, Dance ect. I know I require a lot of a speaker and Im not sure if I can gett it all in One, but I like a chalenge.
I want to make this myself instead of going out to buy one, because that is what everybody can do.
There is something special about building something with your own hands, spend time and talk with others who have experience, establish new contacts, friends and create something unique.
I have understood that Jon is one of the gurus on these pages and Im incredibly happy that you get involved in my project Jon. Thank you for your time.
And to you Ron thanks fore taking time to answer me and put me in touch with TEK and the rest of you who are so friendly and spend your time helping me out.
I hope in the future, I can inspired others with pictures and hopefully increasing knowledge along in this build.

I enjoyed the speakers you linked to Ron. Ill be spending some time to have a good look at this page.
I think I want to build my build with curved sides, will this affect the preformence if I ceep the internal volume the same?

I look forward to the process in hunting for the perfecdt speaker, building it and lisen to it in the end

Ive alsow been recommended this kit in Norway

http://www.dynabel.no/selvbygg/hoyttalere-kit/kit-u-kabinett/gulvstaende/dynabel-2815r-hoyttalerkit-u-kabinett#tab_product_desciption

It uses drivers from SB Acoustics and a Ribbon tweeter called Fountek Neo CD2.0

I even heard them and they play very good.

Still happy to look at builds you might think would fit my needs.

[TEK]

As long as you keep the baffel the same and the volume quite the same, you shoould have no problems with rounder sides.

[Renron]

Ante,
There is no problem with rounding the sides of the speaker box. It will make the build MUCH more difficult but they look great!
Please answer these questions. We will start here and narrow down the list of DIY speakers.

Will you use a subwoofer with these speakers?

Do you like to play the speakers LOUD?

Do you prefer the sound of metal , fiber or paper cone drivers? If you cannot answer this question, go listen to different speakers at a high $$$ speaker store. Tell them you want to hear the differences between cone materials. Be honest with them and yourself to what you like best.

How big a speaker can your wife accept? LOL (maybe the most important question)

What equipment will drive the speakers? Be specific.

What is your $$$ limit for this build. Remember that XO (cross overs) are about 1/2 the total cost of the drivers.

Thanks for dropping the Thors, there are better speakers today for less $$$.

Ron

[Ante]

Hi

Ron:
Im not planning on using subwoofers with the speakers.
We are not talking LOUD like you have to wear ear protection, but loud enough to feel it. Its more importen fore me to have the clear open sound then playing loud.
I never thougt about it. Im all new to the high end sound and all that makes them different. I just know what I like when I hear it. I will have to make a visit too the shoop and hear the difference.
Well.. If it was up to hear, the marshall Bluetooth we have is big enough IF I want to live in harmony when Im inside the house I would go fore a set of bookshelf speakers, so what do I do?
I think I choose to go fore it and build the best speaker regardless of the size and take the consequences. I might end up in the studio ore take the room to one of the kids But at least I will have a good sounding speaker to ceep me company
I have not decided what I will drive them with yet. I think it will depend on the speaker. Ive been looking at some tube amps, but its is totally opend and I hope I get the best out of it when I have settled on the speakers.
The total on speakers including the XO some where in the 1500 - 2000$ and 1000 - 2000$ on the amp. I rather put an extra$ inn and be satisfied, then dont and think, What if...
Im starting on scratch and today I have nothing, in the end I just want to be able to sit down, close my eyes with a coald beer and enjoy a good set up.
I think I would be a bit stupid if I dident Im seeking advice and this is my first time so I will listen to you Thank you fore beeing so honest and direct. I like that.

Bouth the Statement II and the Natalie Portmans looks pretty nice.

What is, in your opinion Bill, the best setup on the Nat Ps? Drivers, tweeter, volume and XO?

[Ante]

How would the statements II components work in The Anthologies enclosure. I would really like to do a curved version that we bout can live with do to size. Statements 60" migth be a bit too mouch.

[TEK]

How would the statements II components work in The Anthologies enclosure. I would really like to do a curved version that we bout can live with do to size. Statements 60" migth be a bit too mouch.

They both have the same baffel with, so I guess your actual question is "how will it works if I make the statemwnta II in a cabinet with less volume".
As long ad the baffel width are the same and the drivers individual location are kept according to the original design you will have no issues from mid-bass and upwards.

What you need to do is to figure out the volume of the enclosure you want to build. Remember that a rounded encloser will have less volume with the same maximum external dimensions as a square.
You shold design your box so that the volume of the mid-tone chamber is according to the initial design.
Then what you will loose on a box with less volume is the lower part of the bass respons.
There should be no need to modify the crossover.
It might be that you must adjust the port size or length a bit - I'm not sure. Hopefully Jim or Curt can chime in on that.
As you are planning on using a sub as well (I think I saw a comment on that earlier on) loosing some lower bass respons might not be a big deal for you.

[tktran]

Some of the questions may be already been covered in other Statement threads:

One of the earliest is the original thread from 2014 when the Statement II was introduced.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41927-Statements-II-A-musical-evolution!&p=599484&viewfull=1#post599484

This is my favourite house- the room pictured there is 6x9m (20x30 ft) with 3.6m (12ft) ceilings (200m^3).

I have two 15" subwoofers and four 10" subwoofers but I don't feel a need for them.
Bass & treble level is ultimately a listener preference, but it's safe to say you can build
these first before deciding on subwoofers.

2 years later they are still my daily speaker. It hasn't lost it magic!

[TEK]

BTW, there have been several other statements builds with curved side. Like these:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?40716-Curved-Statements&highlight=Statements+curved

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43389-Double-curved-Statement-II-and-Statement-II-Centre&highlight=Statements+curved

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41958-My-full-sized-Statements-II-build&highlight=Statements+curved

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42607-Statement-II-The-Remix&highlight=Statements+curved

[Renron]

Ante,
I would build these

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42607-Statement-II-The-Remix

With a couple of modifications. I would use 2 layers of Baltic Birch 3/4" plywood for the front Baffle, because I'm now a GIANT believer in solid thick baffles sound better.
I would reduce the height of the cabinet to 48" instead of 50". More WAF friendly. Reducing the size but keeping the rounded top you could eliminate the top "rib", eliminating the empty chamber at the top of the cabinet. Approximately the same volume , just shorter. Fill the kerf cuts with epoxy once glued in place.

I LOVE the look of MTMWW instead of the WMTMW look.

My opinion only. But, Great bang for the buck. Big Badaboom.
Ron

My opinion only, But I have the center channel and it sounds wonderful and powerful (understatement)

[wkhanna]

Ante,
I would build these

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?42607-Statement-II-The-Remix

that is a build anyone could classify as 'End Game'

[Ante]

Thank you all for great input. Ive been looking at the remix built Ron and I like it a lot. Ive been working on a drawing fore the statement II. You might be able to give me some feedback.
I'm planing on giving it a base of about 4" with the vent firing down. If it is possible I really want it in the front. Ive read that it is better if the speaker are up against the wall. I see the mix has it in the back.
I went to a hifi shop today and listen to Bowers & Wilkins, the CM9 S2 in the 2500$ price range and the 803 D3 in the 150.000$ range. I really liked the sound in the 803. they both had Kevlar cone. some thing to aim fore
I start out at scratch and have nothing. I thought I start by building a great set of speakers and try them out with different amps and see what I like best.
I am very thankful fore everyone that help me reach my goals. I promise a lot af pictures during the process
With this cast the total internal volume is 141l the tubes fore the mids steal about 14l. I would guess the woofers will have about 100l to play in. Sounds good?
If I'm able to get the vent in the front I can keep the height as it is and move the tweeter to the middle of the mids. Ive put it on the lower end now do to my listening position
I'm planning the XO in a tray in the back. then I'm able to tweak it if it is necessary.

[Carl V]

venting out the front will be fine


I am more curious about your two
upper midrange tube vents

[Ante]

thinking about the length? I tryed to find some information on this but did not find it. How does the length affect the sound. how would it be afected if it vas cloased?
There is no opening in the back on my drawing, but there is ment to be, I could not figure out how to get it done in sketchup with curved surfice. If anyone is interested I can provide the skethup file.

[deewan]

thinking about the length? I tryed to find some information on this but did not find it. How does the length affect the sound. how would it be afected if it vas cloased?
There is no opening in the back on my drawing, but there is ment to be, I could not figure out how to get it done in sketchup with curved surfice. If anyone is interested I can provide the skethup file.

You cannot close the midrange tunnels without a crossover change. The crossover is designed for the midrange to have a transmission line or open back. Also, you will need to line the midrange tunnels with foam, which means the cylindrical design you have shown would be a little more difficult to line with foam.

To answer your questions you sent me via PM, sorry, I do not have any picture of my drawings/plans other than those on my build thread. When I completed my build I thought to myself "Who would every build this? I'll just throw away my hand drawings..." Well, turns out I was wrong. I've been asked for copies of those hand drawings 5-6 times.

If I were to build these design again, I don't think there is anything I would do differently besides pay someone to use CAD and a CNC machine to cut out my parts. It was a lot of hand cutting and manual labor. Other than the driver layout changing from WMTMW to TMWW, I followed the original Statement II plans as items.

If you have any other questions, let me know. I plan on selling my Statement II's soon so I won't have the speakers much longer to grab measurements or whatever.

[---k---]

I was trying to think of designs without PE/Dayton drivers that may be easier for you to source.

One I heard last year that I thought was special was Wolf's Nephila. The kit is here. http://meniscusaudio.com/nephila-bar...ir-p-1519.html I'm posting the links to the kits, because they are easy links for me to find. But, the build thread and crossover should be online at Parts Express. And I'm sure Ben would share if asked.

I haven't heard Jeff Bagby's Kariros, but they are supposedly very very good too. http://meniscusaudio.com/kairos-pair-p-1380.html The Satori woofer is supposedly one of the best. His other designs I've heard have been great. I can highly recommend. I believe the crossover is published at Parts Express. Jeff has also published a bass bin design to convert the 2-way into a 3-way. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...y-loudspeakers

It looks like you're gravitating towards bigger / more capable speakers. The Statements / Anthologies / Finalists are all nice speakers. I believe I've heard them all at DIY events (definitely the Statements and Anthologies. Pretty sure Jim had his Finalists at DIY Chicago last year, but just don't remember if it was that or something else)

[Renron]

Ante,
Your CAD drawings are very good. But arbitrarily (just cause you want to) moving the tweeter and the two mid-ranges will effect how the speaker performs and the crossover design too.
I know you want to design YOUR own speakers, but it is extremely complicated and takes years of practice and design theory. Just build DeeWans remix speaker.
Or you could also choose another complete design.
ALL speakers sound better moved AWAY from the wall unless they were designed to sit close to the wall on purpose.
I don't want to discourage you, I like your enthusiasm. I DO want you to be happy with your speakers after you put that much time and $$$ into them. That's why I didn't want you to build the Thor.
Send Curt an email and ask him for help. He may or may not answer you, nice guy but he's busy I'm sure. The email link on on the right hand side of his web page.

http://speakerdesignworks.com/

Ron

[TEK]

I did not notice that. I agree with Ron, you should not move the tweeter/mids relation to each other. The drivers individual placement, their spacing as well as the baffel with should not be altered.
I'm not that sure when it comes to the bass - you may get away with moving one of the bass drivers (I guess that was done on the remix?)
But maybe some of the design gurus could comment on this - I'm just repeating what I have catched on reading their stuff...

[Carl V]

+2:agree::agree:
that was the gist of my brief post...
the two midrange tunnels ought to be in an mtm
arrangement

[Evil Twin]

You must be a Padawan learner or Sith apprentice before you become a master...

Looking back over the last 45 years of speaker building, I find it completely acceptable and appropriate to say,


"Once I was the student, Obi Wan, but now I am the Master"


Are you a master? Do you know what using phase quadrature in an MTM means? If not, put the driver arrangement back where it belongs and be thankful you have so many supportive and tactful members on the forum who would guide you gently in the direction best for reaching your goals.

So far, you seem to be at a beginner's level where you don't know enough yet to know what you don't know- enthusiasm, while encouraged, doesn't make up for lack of hard knowledge and experience.


Put the MTM back into the correct configuration, and before you would alter another master's design, whether light or dark side, be sure you understand why and how it was designed- at least the fundamentals. Meddle unwisely and you will not be pleased by the results...

[Renron]

Ante,
The Master has been kind and given you a warning, he is not likely to do so a second time. Consider yourself fortunate he didn't use the Force Choke Hold............
Ron

[Alaric]

Oh, geez. Now ET is fired up. On the plus side, you aren't likely to get better advice anywhere than from ET, fired up or not.

[Ante]

Sorry if I've crossed some boundaries, or stepped on anyone's toes. That was not my intension.

Yes I am a beginner and I don’t know what using phase quadrature in an MTM means. I have never built this type of speakers before, ore any kind of home hifi. I just want advice on how to get to the best solution.
So if anyone has been offended in the context I just have to say Im sorry. It was never the intention. I ask for advice because I do not know what the best solution is. The reason I have published these drawings is precisely because I am wondering if it is a solution that can be used. I have read some posts and thought that the baffle width and location of tweet in the hearing zone and the volume of the box was essentially.

When I wish to take a untraditional path, according to design, and not choose the traditional square boxes it pops up many questions. Therefore, Im addressing myself to you who have expertise in the field and has done this for so many years. You've probably had the same questions and either made experiences yourself or was given this knowledge by others who have made these experiences. I am a beginner and have never sayd otherwise. I hope I do not stand out as a world champion in any way, for I am certainly not in this field. I want to learn and try as best I can to take advantage of the knowledge that I know you're all have. I then, hopefully, have the opportunity to build me a set of speakers within the budget I have that I can live with fore a long time.

Englishis not my everyday launguage so if Im expressing me in a wrong way, then I have to apologize.
I feel I've gotten lots of good advice for you, I have not intended to change any of your designs, nor steal something that I do not have rights on.

My hope is that the experience you all have with your builds combined can help me avoiding make the same mistakes, if any, in mine.

When one builds something, in my experience, when we look back we might wish one had made minor changes to the end result to get it even better. That is how, in my opinion, one perfects ones product.

Again I apologize if I've qrossed some boundaries which I should not have done.

I guess I have more or less decided that it becomes the Statement II kit for me. I still have many questions, but I have learned from my own mistakes before so Ill probably do it again as well. One can not do better than the best one can. If it were make a mistake the first time, then you learn from it and try some thing else the next time around . It is just so much easier talking with people who would possible made the same mistakes before so one does not need to spend time and money to commit it again.
The world is full of world champions, I do not want to be one of them, or emerge as one.
I really hope you wil accsept my apology, bacause I still have a lot to learn from all of you.

[Alaric]

I'm probably out of my league here, but I don't think there are any boundary issues at all. Just some friendly "That ain't gonna work" advice. This is how things are learned. I know I was just engaging in some fun joshing around. You're on the right path as far as I can tell. Ask and listen seems to be the path here at the 'Guide. But I couldn't build a speaker with a Sith Master behind me with a stick, so I may be due for a thrashing as well.

[BobEllis]

Spot on, Lee. We like to have fun while learning, Ante.

Evil Twin comes off as harsh sometimes but it's usually just for entertainment value. ET and his servant/alter ego Jon Marsh are huge contributors to this forum and the education and enjoyment of this hobby for its members. As a non-native English speaker sometimes you may misunderstand the humor. Can you learn to design a speaker that gives satisfactory performance? Yes. Are you likely to match the performance of one of our experienced designers at the same price point? Not likely. We're just trying to help you get the best performance for your money.

If you want to learn to design speakers it's best to start with a two way design. There are fewer interactions to try to understand. If you go that route, post a build thread and you'll get lots of help. Your cabinet design looks interesting once you rearrange the midranges back to MTM. I'm looking forward to watching your build progress.

[Ante]

Ante,
As Bob and Lee said we like to have fun and a sense of humor about our work. You did not hurt anyone's feeling or step on anyone's toes.
E.T. is not always polite, but he is always right. If he tells you something you better listen.
Your a good person. We like you, otherwise we would ignore this thread. Your fine, and your English is excellent.

"One can not do better than the best one can." A very wise statement. We are trying to help you with which speaker you choose to build. That's all. It's your choice.

The open chambers for the mid woofers can be PVC pipe that works well. 4" I think. Curved sides is a great idea and will challenge your skills and make the speaker look better. With rounded sides the cabinet will have to be deeper, your right. How much will the longer PVC pipes effect the mid woofers is a question you should ask Jim Holt or Curt (original speaker designer) Both nice people.

Keep asking questions. Learn from the answers given or E.T. will come back and no one wants that.

Ron

My grammar just turned 92.
(sorry)
Ron

Hi everyone

Now the Statements II are ordered and are heading my way, Ive alsow bought the Hegel H360 to power them. I hope its a god match

I did however upgraded the XO. Does anyone have any expiriense regarding this uppgrade?

Ive attached the latest version of the box. I think its an mix of the statement mix, the original and mabe some more.

I tryed to get inn all the god feedback you given me, and I hope Ive been Abel to get something that might work.

Total hight is 1187mm and including the base it is 1260mm

What du you think?

That's a nice looking cabinet.

What do you mean when you say upgraded the XO? Did you buy different brand capacitors or resistors?

[wkhanna]

your English is excellent.

Yes!
do not worry at all about your grammar or spelling!

[BobEllis]

Just a housekeeping bit - wouldn't it make more sense to start a new thread since you aren't building Thors? Leave a link to it here. Jon's a bit busy to find his moderator hat, so copy the last couple of posts over.

Looking forward to watching your build.

[Renron]

Bill,
Please link to the new thread.
Ante, I'm excited for you, those are beautiful. Excellent job with those plans. I really like the way they look, you did an excellent job. Congratulations!
One thing I noticed is the down firing port (which is nice) , you don't need the extra flare on the bottom. A simple 45* bevel or 3/4" roundover will work fine. You'll also need feet or outriggers at least 30mm - 40mm tall depending on the type of floor. Carpet or tile or wood.
You're going to be SO happy. Please tell us what your XO (crossover) upgrades are.
If you can work with wood 1/2 as well as your drawings look, they'll be fantastic speakers.
Ron

Picture of outrigger
(I like the look of the Ardent better than the Avalon) I may be prejudice thou.

[Ante]

That would be fine Bill

Thank you

Ill give you an up date on the xo and the spikes Ive ordered when Im back om my PC that wil might be posten on the new thread

[DFAL Minion]

Ante's Statement II build Journey

utilizing teachings from my Master, ET, i have executed a DFAL Dark Force transformation on the original thread located HERE

may this Journey exceed expectation....

[Evil Twin]

A most suitable and timely use of your growing skills in the Dark Side...

[Renron]

OMG, Now there's two of them!!!!

[Ante]

Hi
The kit is still not shipped but the XO uppgrade is ESA for the tweeter and PX for Mid, (Im not shure what it is but I trust the people at Meniscus. Im not desided on the finich yet, but I hope it will be good

Does enyone of you tryed the Hegel H360 on the Statement?
Im wery exited to try this combo. I will recive mine in a coupel of days. Hopefylly the build will start ass soon as I recive the drivers

I think its more ore less the same spikes as in yours Renron

[Renron]

I have no doubt the Hegel H360 will be wonderful with your new speakers. Let us know when you start your build. Baltic Birch Plywood , right? RIGHT?
Ron

[Ante]

yes, Yes, YES the stiffest kind

Ill take a lot of pictures

[Ante]

Ive got the parts now and Im going to start the build.

One more question before I start.

Do I Put the bass port in the back ore as it is drawn in the botton? The flooring is tials where Im planing on having the speakers.

[Jim Holtz]

Ive got the parts now and Im going to start the build.

One more question before I start.

Do I Put the bass port in the back ore as it is drawn in the botton? The flooring is tials where Im planing on having the speakers.

It depends on what kind of base (feet) you're building on the bottom of the cabinet. The simplest way is to port out the back near the bottom of the speaker. There's no performance difference between rear or down ported. Tile flooring shouldn't make a difference to the ports but an area rug in front of the speakers will probably help eliminate bass bounce and sound reflections.

If you do port out the bottom , be sure to create a channel (5"-6") exiting the rear of the base to allow for ample air flow.

HTH

Jim

[Renron]

Ante,
Pictures please, even just the parts. We like pictures!

Ron

[Ante]

now the fun begun. hope you like it

Thank you Jim, Im not sure how to do the porting yet, Im planning on having them in the bottom, I not sure how a rear vent would funktion With te bracing Ive got..
Im alsow planning on having the XO in the bottom base, this might influence the Space left fore the bottom vent to breath freely?
Where would you put the sub vent if you see the Box in the Picture?

And where is the best Place to put the stuffing? bottom, top, side??

Thank you

This was more fun than I expekted

[wkhanna]

that is what we call, "rocking & rolling", Ante!

Nice!

[scottvalentin]

Wow looking awesome! Very well done. Your craftsmanship is impressive!

[Browncoat]

Agreed, your work looks fantastic. And that shop!

[Steve Manning]

Looking good .... that's a nice sized shop from what I can see.

[Ante]

thank you everybody I'm so excited this is so much fun !!

I buddy of mine owns a shop that makes interior, kitchen and a whole lot of other stuff so hes got more tools than I need

Does it matter witch place I put the vent of these two shown in the picture?

I have no idea where to put the XO... In the back or in the inside of the speaker. Any ideas?