In ceiling speakers for kitchen

[warwolf7]

Hi,

Well, first of all, I think this is my first post here (note that I read a lot of post, and I most of the time, don't need to post anything since I can find my answer on a forum somewhere)
I'm looking for speakers to install in the ceiling of my kitchen. I totally dislike the idea of having speakers sitting on the countertop or elsewhere in the kitchen and listening to the speakers located in the living room is not quite optimal. So, I was thinking about taking the gyspum board out and install in ceiling speakers.
I came across a pair of Energy EAS-8C for around 175$CAD shipped to my door. But I want a build a box around them to stop the sound from travelling in the roof and disturb the peace in the other rooms. That led me to think that instead of building a box around those speakers and completly change their frequency response, I could built something from a design that already exist (DIY). From here maybe http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...peaker-Designs

I have a few challenges.
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My first one is choosing a design that fits my need. Since my ceiling are about 8' feet high, what type of speakers would give the sound directivty (I've been trying to figure a way to say this for 5min, and I'm not sure this is the way to say it (I'm french)). And can't have something that is too narrow in terms of soundwave directivity, i believe.

__ I guess that the speaker should either be a sealed design or ported in the front. I'm kind of afraid to have a speaker that extend too much on the low side of frequency because of all the lights and see crack appear in the gypsum but I have no experience with in ceiling speakers. So any knowledge is welcome.

So I saw those design
1 - dayton_reference_rs225 A bit high on the price
2 - in-khan-neatos/ Price is good, but speakers is a bit big of a ceiling i think
3 - Dayton-RS-WMTW-Center Still a bit big.

4 - If you have any suggestion... I'm totally clueless, there is just soo many design, I'm not really sure what to look for.

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My second one is building a grill that looks good and blend with the ceiling. I like the one that comes with the Energy EAS-8C for example, but I haven't found any example of a DIY who succefully built one. So if you have any idea.


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My third one is how to fix them to the ceiling joist.

Should I make a bracket and screw them directly on them.?
Should I make a bracket with some sort of suspension to absorb the vibration and eliminate vibrating lights fixtures and cracking gypsum? And, if so, anyone had suggestion of brands that you've used?

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Thanks in advance and happy new year


Math

[warwolf7]

Well... At first, I found out it was pretty hard to get good info about "in-ceiling" speakers. That's pretty much confirmed here. I'll make sure to keep you guys informed with my decision and how it turns out when I'll go forward with this. Until then I'll try to continue my research for knowledge on this subject.

[5th element]

You hit the nail on the head with the directivity, so to speak, the off axis response and driver summation will be the biggest issue. In other words, as you walk around the room the phase relationship between the tweeter and the mid/bass will vary considerably creating all sorts of problems.

Typically you encounter these problems with normal loudspeakers when you stand up or sit on the floor etc, ie you change the listening height (which is something we don't do for critical listening!).

With that said your best bet would be a coaxial as these will help keep the sound sounding the same, or keep it sounding 'right' wherever you go. Sure you might roll off the treble as you walk further away from them, but the tweeter and mid/bass will stay properly in phase. KEF manufacturer complete in ceiling speakers that do just this, although they are not cheap.

[Kevin D]

No open areas for an "in-wall" speaker?

Kevin D.

[warwolf7]

With that said your best bet would be a coaxial as these will help keep the sound sounding the same, or keep it sounding 'right' wherever you go. Sure you might roll off the treble as you walk further away from them, but the tweeter and mid/bass will stay properly in phase. KEF manufacturer complete in ceiling speakers that do just this, although they are not cheap.

Thanks for that lead. I'll post my finding soon.

No open areas for an "in-wall" speaker?

Kevin D.

My kitchen is on the first floor. There is no second floor and the roof is flat so no attic either. 3 of the 4 wall of the kitchen are exterior walls. The zone that I would like to have music is the kitchen area, the dining room is not that all important. I thought at the wall beside the stairs for an inwall configuration. Althought I'm not sure about how I could install a box inside the wall and insulate it to protect the speaker from weather. In the ceiling its pretty easy, there is at least 10" to 16" of space above the ceiling for insulation and a speaker enclosure.

I could also put some speakers on shelf on that same wall section but that would not look so great

here is a view of the current kitchen configuration

[cjd]

Could you put speakers in the soffit above the cabinets?

[5th element]

Could you put speakers in the soffit above the cabinets?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[warwolf7]

the kitchen on the picture might have tricked you because it's wrong. I did estimate the ceiling height in sketchup, so the ceiling is 3" lower in reality. The soffit, is 8" high in reality but we have to substract the o'gee... So that's leaving me a small 5", 5,5" area.
But if there is option that could fit in, I would love to see them because I stood in the kitchen and look at the area. I guess it could work, it's not too high. I guess that the speaker would need to have an angle to avoid too much reflection on the ceiling

[5th element]

You could always build

http://www.seas.no/images/stories/prestige/pdfdatasheet/L12RE_XFC_AppNote.pdf

into them.

This should easily fit.

Now SEAS design will factor into it a degree of bafflestep correction and other diffraction effects, but given the very compromised position in which these will be installed this may not be all that much of a problem. This would probably be far cheaper than a KEF coax solution I'd reckon. I suppose it very much depends on what your expectations are like for this. But given the choice, if building a loudspeaker system for a non-critical location, where a fixed listening position is not to be had, I would most certainly go with a coax.

[warwolf7]

Thanks for your answer so far

I looked into the seas speakers and I did found that it would come about even with the kef ci200qr being the most expensive speakers on my list of speakers possibility. Plus, I have to spend some time doing the crossover, the grill (I don't want no tissu in the kitchen, it's gonna pick up the grease. Metal grill is easier to clean up). So After a long time looking for my options I made this list

Kef Ci200qr 232$/ per speakers incl shipping, in a pack of 4 total 1031.46$
35hz-34khz (+-6dB)
On a forum, a Kef representative wrote that it would need a enclosure that has a min of 2 cubic feet.
It really seams to be the best of the best. Goes pretty low and has really good coverage

HTD HD-R80 100$/speakers w/o shipping, in a pack of 2. total 250$(estimation with shipping)
40Hz-22kHz (+- ?? dB)
I heard a lot of people were happy with them and some were saying they couldn't tell the difference between them vs higher priced in ceiling speakers. There is no negative comments about those speakers on the manufacturer's website

Energy EAC-8C 95$/speaker including shipping in pack of 2. Total of 191.35$ with shipping
45Hz-20kHz (+-3dB)

Klipsch R-1800-c 90$/speaker including shipping in pack of 2. Total of 178.80$ with shipping
56Hz-20kHz (+-3dB)

Dayton ME820C 70-75/speaker without shipping in pack of 2. Total of 160$(estimation with shipping)
30Hz-20kHz (+- ??? dB)

These speakers were choosen based on availability, prices.

If anyone has ever heard more than one of these brand and can compare them it would be awesome to hear from you.