Source Upgrade needed, please help

[Landspeeder]

I am a proud owner of Jed’s Clearwaveloudspeaker’s 4T Mains and Center kits. Upstream of this I have a XPA-5, UMC-1, and 2 sources.

My secondary source is a DVD player for Netflix rentals. When I play CDs, DVDs, or DVD-Audio through this the sound is fantastic, phenomenal, and ethereal on well recorded tracks. All of my CDs and DVDs (thousands of both) are in long term storage in the crawl space and my home doesn’t have enough room to store them in an accessible location: hence I store the dvd’s as ISOs and the CDs as rips on my network server.

An HTPC is my main source. When I ran the music through my old pioneer receiver into DCM floor-standing speakers this was fine. Now that the processor, amp, and speakers are fantastic my music via the HTPC sounds harsh and painful… it is not usable through this form at all in the current configuration.

My rips are via 320 kbit/s MP3: I have tried a flac rip and no difference was noticed.

The source is via either Optical (or HDMI) from my onboard Asus P6T Deluxe motherboard (Windows 7) to the UMC-1 using the highest S/PDIF rate available.

Any suggestions for a source upgrade to the HTPC to allow the music to sound listenable again? I do not mind re-encoding my entire library to FLAC or WAV if it is necessary, but so far my tests have proven no difference and I believe a hardware upgrade is necessary.

Thank you all in advance.

[Face]

You didn't state a budget.

As for external DAC's, the DacMagic isn't bad for the money. I've heard the Musical Fidelity V-DAC is also excellent for the money. I use Wyred 4 Sound DACs in both of my rig, IMO they exceed DACs costing much more.

As for CD players with optical inputs, I had a Marantz SA-15S2, it's a nice sounding player with a warm top end. Then there's the Cambridge 840C, which has almost the opposite sound.

With a nice DAC and well set up room(treatments, etc), the difference should be obvious between MP3s and lossless files.

[Landspeeder]

I could implement a sub $300 solution immediately. If it costs more, up to $1500, that is fine as I would rather wait for a correct component as opposed to a compromised unit.

Any Soundcard or DAC(usb) will be for the HTPC, no dedicate CD player will be utilized. Likely I would rather go with a DAC as the HTPC is upgraded every couple of years due to gaming duty. I know I should hear an obvious difference between high bit rate MP3 and lossless: since I do not my assumption is that the source hardware is the root problem. Certainly audio from the DVD source player sounds fantastic, it is the audio from my main HTPC source that sounds overly harsh and jittery.

The current room is very limited in its setup. We will be building a new home in a few years with a dedicated ICF basement theater, however what I have now must be put up with. I'll post updated pics of the setup soon.

Again, much thanks.

[Hdale85]

Might want to try that SPDIF interface that Jon likes, it's an SPDIF to USB. I forget who makes it. I use an HTPC currently and don't have this issue. I have a dual mono Twisted Pear Opus DAC which uses the Wolfson WM8740 and the sound is fantastic. The newer version uses the WM8741.

I'm going to be swapping my HTPC for a Popcorn Hour C-200 soon though for simplicity and smooth operations sake.

[Landspeeder]

I would certainly be open to the idea of a dedicated media streamer in leui of a DAC for my HTPC.

I tried a briteview cinema tube but it had some drawbacks both myself and the WAF are unable to live with:

1) One must navigate the network folder structure through my ReadyNas Duo (soon to upgrade to a LimeTech server) when looking for files. The interface must be comparable to a Media Center My Movies for dvd/blu-ray ISOs and Media Center for CDs... it must not be a navigate the network folder structure to the desired file system.
2) While the audio sounds fine, comparable to playing the original source, the device randomly drops out when playing CDs.
3) The device's wired ethernet is limited to 100 as opposed to 1000 so it is unable to successfully stream blu-ray ISOs without massive lag and stutter.

[Hdale85]

Hmm that sounds like other issues honestly, a 10/100 connection should be able to stream Blu-ray iso's without an issue.

What are you using for music playback on the HTPC? This might be a software issue?

[Landspeeder]

The 10/100 issue was briteview's response. By connecting an external drive with the Blu-ray ISO loaded it is able to play fine. By hooking up a laptop to the same ethernet connection it can stream said ISO... however that media streamer still doesn't cut it due to the other issues. It drops out audio record playback regardless of streaming or local drive locations.

My HTPC uses Windows Media Center (windows 7) as the player. I have also tried Winamp, XBMC, and Media Monkey. All have the same issue.

[lhwidget]

Hi,
I use a Windows Home Server to stream my CDs, DVDs, BluRays and recorded TV to HTPC clients in my apartment, very much like you do.

A few things I've noticed;
1) I started ripping my CDs as 320 kb/sec stream rates, then switched to uncompressed waves about a year ago. I'm a fairly critical listener, and I have a hard time telling the difference between 320 kb/s rips and waves too (by the way, we're in good company, Zaph has mentioned this also).

2) I can stream BluRay rips across a 100 mb/s wired connection with no problems. While 1000 mbit/sec wired network connections are the preferred way to go when possible, 100 mb/s connections should also be usable.

3) I like the easy way XBMC (Dharma, Beta 2 release) navigates to my movies and my audio collection (also a few internet radio stations) using only a Harmony remote.

4) Here's the kicker, I don't use the digital side of my receiver at all. I use the line outputs of my sound cards on my two systems. One is an old Creative Audigy Platinum Plus, the other is an Asus Xonar DX2. The surprising thing is that the $80 Xonar is dead quiet, and provides exceptionally good fidelity (better than the old Audigy). I run the card with all effects turned off. In other words, I could run a power amp with no problems, if I didn't need volume control for the TV's line outputs when watching live TV.

So far, the only problem I have is XBMC sometimes making a noise when switching from one CD to another when I change what I'm listening to (like the last sample repeats for 50 to 500 ms). This is an XBMC/Xonar DX2 problem. So far, this hasn't pushed me away from using XBMC as my primary media program.

You might want to give this a shot, just to see what the on-board HTPC sound card is capable of, $80 is a pretty cheap solution for a 7.1 channel sound source...

5) I have an extensive collection of media players and I doubt I'll ever use them again. The flexibility of a decent HTPC compared to the restrictions placed on the user by most media players has been a real boon to me.

Here's the info on my bedroom system, you may find some info you can use

http://sites.google.com/site/lhwidgetssite/home/00-computers-as-a-source-component/bedroom-htpc---take-two

[evilskillit]

A few things I've noticed;
1) I started ripping my CDs as 320 kb/sec stream rates, then switched to uncompressed waves about a year ago. I'm a fairly critical listener, and I have a hard time telling the difference between 320 kb/s rips and waves too (by the way, we're in good company, Zaph has mentioned this also).

http://sites.google.com/site/lhwidge...tpc---take-two

One thing I noticed on your site, and I'm not sure if this is still up to date, is that you rip your audio to WAV format. Have you looked into FLAC? It'll drop the file size by 40-60% without any loss in quality, its a lossless compression scheme for audio. Similar to zipping up your wav files, but more specifically for audio.

The other advantage to using flac is that it supports tagging, you said that you can't tag your music because its in wav format, so switching to FLAC will give you more space to work with AND allow you to tag your files again. Its easy to convert back to wav too so if you lose a CD and need to replace it the FLAC source files are good for that as well.

Sorry to threadjack and sound like some sort of spokesperson for FLAC but I just wanted to make sure you knew since using WAV files is basically worse in every way, no payout over FLAC (or any other lossless compression scheme like monkey's audio or apple lossless or windows lossless).

[Landspeeder]

Again, much thanks to All.

Ihwidget
1) Thanks for the opinion
2) Last night I ran a test on my wifes laptop and also found that streaming at 100 mb/s on blu-rays is no problem. It is an internal limitation of the briteview.
3) XBMC would be fine (as is windows media center with my movies plugin), but the sound is still an issue
4) This may be worth trying
5) Thanks for the site share

Dougie
1) When I correct my HTPC playback issue, be it through a DAC, a sound card, or a dedicated media player (haven’t been happy with my experience using this last one), I’ll again try some tests of FLAC vs High Bit Rate MP3s. When I originally began ripping my CDs for daily use hard drive space cost a fortune. Now I have more space than I need, but If I’m unable to discern a difference I do not want to re-encode my entire library.

Face
1) Below is a series of pictures showing my room layout. Not ideal as you’ll soon see.

[Hdale85]

I use XBMC but under linux. I wonder if the windows versions sound driver is worse. I used MediaPortal before and there was an audiophile sound plugin that made an enormous difference. Might want to try it out and see if it makes a difference as I'm not sure if there is such a plugin for XBMC.

[lhwidget]

One thing I noticed on your site, and I'm not sure if this is still up to date, is that you rip your audio to WAV format. Have you looked into FLAC? It'll drop the file size by 40-60% without any loss in quality, its a lossless compression scheme for audio. Similar to zipping up your wav files, but more specifically for audio.

The other advantage to using flac is that it supports tagging, you said that you can't tag your music because its in wav format, so switching to FLAC will give you more space to work with AND allow you to tag your files again. Its easy to convert back to wav too so if you lose a CD and need to replace it the FLAC source files are good for that as well.

Sorry to threadjack and sound like some sort of spokesperson for FLAC but I just wanted to make sure you knew since using WAV files is basically worse in every way, no payout over FLAC (or any other lossless compression scheme like monkey's audio or apple lossless or windows lossless).

All good points, and I don't really have a decent reason not to use flac. When file space became a moot point for me I went with Exact Audio Copy and waves as some car audio systems and hand-held devices couldn't handle FLACs but could handle waves. I haven't looked since I switched, but I imagine this is less of an issue than it was a year ago.

What I discovered with waves is that with creative folder names, my rips are arranged by group/artist, and EAC will place the track/title info in the titles of the individual tracks. All that's left is placing the album art in the same folder as the tracks, naming it "folder.jpg". I pull album art from Amazon.com while I'm ripping new titles. I get thumbnail images from 25 to 300 kB, which look really nice on a large screen TV. XBMC organizes the albums alphabetically and pulls the album covers into the thumbnail view automatically. I do the same thing with DVD & BluRay rips also.

The only tag/library functionality I really miss is the ability to group albums by artist, each in their own single folder. The up side is there are no library functions used, and no library databases to maintain. It's very simple and fast on the screen.

[lhwidget]

Landspeeder,
Nice system, congratulations!

I'm not sure the software playing the sound files (XBMC, WMC, etc) is the problem.

It may be a problem with the sound card you're using, possibly hardware compatibility/quality problems or it may be something set in the sound card driver software incorrectly. Have you looked at all of the sound effect settings, both in the driver and the playback software? For my Audigy, this is an almost painful process, for the newer Xonar, everything is in one place and pretty easy to find, understand and operate.

If you have installed any add-on applications that process the sound they could be the cause of the trouble also. Anything like a mixer, equalizer, or sound field processor could be causing the high frequency emphasis, and may be messing with the sound stage as well.

I'm still using XP Pro on my HTPCs, but there are a fair amount of posts about WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API) exclusive mode available in Win 7 and Vista. J-River and Foobar players are said to support this mode, I'm not sure if XBMC does. It allows one of the holy grails, bit-perfect audio streams to your sound card's output...

All of these things can affect the sound before it leaves your PC, whether you are using the analog outputs or a digital output.


On the other hand, is there any chance your receiver has been switched to a special sound mode? All of the above regarding EQ and sound filed modifications still applies if some sort of sound field processing has been switched on in your receiver.

Occasionally my little Yamaha receiver switches to "Rock Concert" mode and it sounds a lot like you describe your problem (sounds like poo and scared me to death the first time I accidentally managed to get it switched on, I thought something was broken).

[evilskillit]

Heh, yeah the two main reason I like flac above what you mentioned is with the tags you can sort by genre, so if you're in the mood for a bunch of metal, or jazz then that is easy. Also if you convert them from FLAC to high bitrate mp3 or mp4 for a portable player the tags remain intact. Handy

All good points, and I don't really have a decent reason not to use flac. When file space became a moot point for me I went with Exact Audio Copy and waves as some car audio systems and hand-held devices couldn't handle FLACs but could handle waves. I haven't looked since I switched, but I imagine this is less of an issue than it was a year ago.

What I discovered with waves is that with creative folder names, my rips are arranged by group/artist, and EAC will place the track/title info in the titles of the individual tracks. All that's left is placing the album art in the same folder as the tracks, naming it "folder.jpg". I pull album art from Amazon.com while I'm ripping new titles. I get thumbnail images from 25 to 300 kB, which look really nice on a large screen TV. XBMC organizes the albums alphabetically and pulls the album covers into the thumbnail view automatically. I do the same thing with DVD & BluRay rips also.

The only tag/library functionality I really miss is the ability to group albums by artist, each in their own single folder. The up side is there are no library functions used, and no library databases to maintain. It's very simple and fast on the screen.

[Paulie]

I have a Squeezebox Duet hooked up to my Rotel pre/pro via a digital input and think it sounds pretty good. My library is all flac.

[Landspeeder]

Dougie,

-I pulled in an ancient linux machine that I keep on spare for backup (not capable of dvd iso playback) and it's playback of the MP3s from the NAS sounds great. The monster that it is disallows any type of permanent use in my room however.

Ihwidget, thanks on the compliments .

-I'm using the onboard sound, not a dedicated card. I have since switched off the output from the highest bitrate to instead 44.1 and 48. I've ensured that all 'enhancements' are turned off in the windows driver. No audio 'enhancer' software has been installed.

-I'll be trying JRiver MediaCenter utilizing WASAPI

-The receiver looks to be kosher. Hooking up an old linux desktop (using a borrowed optical audiocard), or my living room media streamer to this port works fine.

[Hdale85]

Sounds like it's either a software issue or just a really poor digital output then... Like i said before there was a patch to add to Media Portal that completely changed the sound, sounded so much better. So there are issues in windows as far as SQ. Although I think in Windows 7 with bit perfect and what not it's a heck of a lot better. I've always found playback in Linux to be superior with the right setup though.

[Landspeeder]

I haven't spent much time in Linux regarding use as an HTPC... now that blu-ray iso network playback is beginning to work I'll likely look into it within 6 months.

The JRiver +WASAPI looks to be promising for music serving. i'll be playing around with this throughout the week.

[Hdale85]

I played around with blu-ray playback in linux and couldn't get it to work so far. I rip all my stuff to mkv's with lossless audio.

[Landspeeder]

FYI:
I've now tested side by side my network high bit rate mp3's, and their equivalent WAV and ISO.

I've set the S/PDIF rate to 44.1, made certain it's volume was set to 100 and double checked that all enhancements have been disabled. Finally I've made certain that the default format is 16bit 44100HZ.

I've used windows media center for playback as well as J-River (using WASAPI) and gave j-river exclusive control of the driver.

In each test many portions of the track came out sounding harsh and distorted.

Then through the drive panel I ran the sound 'test' on the various output rates. I would get random blobs of metallic distortion directly from the driver. I believe my HTPC's on-board sound card is picking up some very strange noise. I repeated this test using a set of analog headphones and it blew up one of the cup drivers (not too happy about that). I again repeated by sending the sound via HDMI to my TV and received the same results.

Just to double check I brought in my living room's brite-view cinamea tube and hooked up the audio to the same input on my UMC-1 that my PC has been using. The sound was fine.

I believe I must now decide between a different sound card or a USB DAC.

[Hdale85]

If you are using multichannel then a sound card is going to be the best/only option.

[birdman71]

Landspeeder,

In the quest for "bit-perfect" playback from a PC, the handiest tip I ever received was to play back a dts cd audio file. It's a 44.1 sample rate file and if the PC resamples, it will come out as noise. If you have your bit-perfect setup dialed in, your receiver/pre-pro will kick into dts mode and it will sound right. I don't know enough about the topic to identify the difference between a dts cd versus a dts soundtrack, but if you google diatonis dts, you'll find the file I use to verify my PC is setup properly.

good luck,

Mike

[rdrowley]

On-board sound cards are terrible! If you are interested in high fidelity music and movies you need to get a MUCH higher quality sound card. I can almost guarantee this is the issue. If you have a set of high quality headphones plug them directly into your computer and see if you're satisfied. If you're not satisfied you need a better audio card. This is true even if you are using digital interfaces. On-board sounds chips simply lack the ability to provide the quality of music you are looking for. Motherboard manufactures use terms like "High Definition" audio and such to help move their products, and for 95% of the population those solutions work just fine, but for people seriously concerned with high quality audio they are very much lacking.

Both Asus and Creative make several solutions that range between mid level and near audiophile quality. Any of their solutions are FAR better than integrated sound. I would look at as Asus or Creative card with a digital output so you only have to run one cable to get full 7.1. The Xonar Essence STX or Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe would be my choice with your superb set-up. The HDAV1.3 is more geared toward Home Theater applications while the other is for audiophiles. I doubt you would be disappointed.

I stepped up from MB sound to a Xonar DX1 and it made a world of difference, and it is Asus's low end card... and it wasn't even a close comparison.

[Hdale85]

Auzentek as well makes some excellent cards, in fact their Audigy based card is supposed to be very nice! Even has swapable op-amps so you can tweak the sound.

[lhwidget]

Landspeeder,
Are you getting the noise from the line audio outputs from your MB's sound card also? I'm not recommending that you use the line out, just try a test with the line outs and a wave file.

If you get the same noise on the analog outputs, I think it's some sort of hardware failure. If not, Birdman might have nailed it.

If it's a hardware failure, I'm a fan of the Xonar DX/DX1 also. You could try one for less than $80 (I'm using the analog line outputs of the Xonar DX with very good results for stereo).

[Landspeeder]

FYI:

I haven't yet tried your solution Birdman.

I've now tested side by side my network high bit rate mp3's, and their equivalent WAV and ISO.

I've set the S/PDIF rate to 44.1, made certain it's volume was set to 100 and double checked that all enhancements have been disabled. Finally I've made certain that the default format is 16bit 44100HZ.

I've used windows media center for playback as well as J-River (using WASAPI) and gave j-river exclusive control of the driver.

In each test many portions of the track came out sounding harsh and distorted.

Then through the drive panel I ran the sound 'test' on the various output rates. I would get random blobs of metallic distortion directly from the driver. I believe my HTPC's onboard sound card is picking up some very strange noise. I repeated this test using a set of analog headphones and it blew up one of the cup drivers (not too happy about that). I again repeated by sending the sound via HDMI to my TV and received the same results.

I believe I must now decide between a different sound card or a USB DAC.

It looks like if I go with a DAC, I'll isolate a potential noisy powersupply/water pump issues that may be present but will end up with 2 channels only...

So, I'll be looking into the soundcard route. If that doesn't work it'll be time to try a different PSU, or temporarily go off of water cooling.

[Landspeeder]

ihwidget. My line out actually destroyed one of the drivers in my headset at a low volume level almost immediately: I have used these Cans for years driven by the line out of past computers and have never had any issue.

Birdman, I just ran the test 'suite' using the diatonis dts track: Dark Edges (that took far less time than I expected, since the file was already downloaded and I had no ISO mount issues). The results are the same: portions of the sound comes through clearly, other portions portray a harsh synthesized jittery vibe: like the fingernails on a chalkboard from hell. This be it analog or digital output.

[Landspeeder]

It looks like a USB-DAC is out due to the limitation of 2 channel audio. I'm looking into a soundcard, and if this too has problems, I'll be trying out the loopback via the Rightmark analyzer.

I'm trying to decide between the $200 Asus xonar essence STX (AV100) with the opamp or the $180 Asus D2X (AV200). Though the Essence uses the AV100, it appears the 7-64bit drivers are more stable. I may even lean towards the $80 Asus Xonar DX which shares the AV100 of the essence stx and still has an optical out.

[Face]

Asus's HDMI sound cards aren't stable with Win7x64, if you stick with their other sound cards you should be fine.

[CraigJ]

Landspeeder,

If you haven't seen this, you may find some additional info here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ighlight=Xonar

and more info here on Pete's pc/amp and sound card: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=218374&page=8 Beyond that, I can't help because I have Mac.

Cj

[Landspeeder]

CraigJ,

That hits it smack on.
Here's my thoughts.

For movie playback the Xonar DX (Currently 60 on amazon) which uses the AV100 (just like their $200 cards) and has a SPDIF out as well as a 7-64 driver (last released on 06-2010 and then disable the GX2.0). review( http://techreport.com/articles.x/14500 )

For music playback I will see how I like the Xonar DX. I am go the route of the Emotiva USB XDA-1 Dac for stereo ($200) and run a sound repeater so that 7 plays through both devices at the same time.

Thoughts before I jump?

[rdrowley]

I think the Xonar DX is a good option, and it will be much better than your current integrated sound card. However, if you desire to listen to the new lossless audio formats currently available on blu-ray movies you will want to go with at least the HDAV1.3. The DX does not support DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD. I did a little research and it looks like the HDAV1.3 is compatible with W7 x64, at least the slim version is.

Also, even though the DX and the other versions use the similar AV100 chipset there are differences that are noticeable. If you are interested in the very best quality possible price is a good indicator of what you will get...

[Face]

However, if you desire to listen to the new lossless audio formats currently available on blu-ray movies you will want to go with at least the HDAV1.3. The DX does not support DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD. I did a little research and it looks like the HDAV1.3 is compatible with W7 x64, at least the slim version is.

No, it's not. I have that card and causes instability issues with Win7x64. There are others experiencing the same issues, check on Asus's message board.

[rdrowley]

If you are worried about drivers and such your other option might be to get an ATI video card that passes audio through HDMI. Their new cards support audio passthrough of all the new HD audio formats eg the 5770.

[Face]

Yes, but that's only if you have on-board sound that can decode those formats, correct?

[rdrowley]

Yes, but that's only if you have on-board sound that can decode those formats, correct?

No, if you have a receiver that will decode them they work. All the video card does is pass the audio information through. The onboard sound is not involved in any way, you can even disable the sound driver. However, to play Blu-Ray movies you do have to have video player software that will work with the video card, like PowerDVD 10.

[Face]

I have mine wired the opposite way, Video card to sound card to receiver's HDMI input. What would be the advantage to passing it the other way? I believe ASUS's sound drivers with their HDMI sound cards are the issue, not the video card passing the signal.

[rdrowley]

The new ATI/AMD video cards (5750 and up) have a built in audio chips that will pass the sound through HDMI digitally. The receiver then needs to decode it. It basically takes any other sound card out of the loop. The benefit is that you do not have a sound card and you get to use the new audio formats on Blu-ray disks.

[Hdale85]

You can setup your PC (via windows anyways) to process it and pass it as LPCM. Linux I don't think you can do it for DTS-HD MA yet but TrueHD you can.

[Face]

The new ATI/AMD video cards (5750 and up) have a built in audio chips that will pass the sound through HDMI digitally. The receiver then needs to decode it. It basically takes any other sound card out of the loop. The benefit is that you do not have a sound card and you get to use the new audio formats on Blu-ray disks.

Now I follow.

And I can use USB for my 2 channel rig and I'm set, thanks!

[Landspeeder]

Thanks everyone.

A different video card is out of the question. I have a water cooled 285.

FYI. The HDMI from my video card goes directly to my main monitor (a samsung 750). The other digital output goes directly to my secondary monitor.

I do not want to pass the HDMI to my UMC-1 first, as I'll often do office work compiling on my machine: it would be a waste to have the UMC-1 / XPA-5 turned on for hours at a time without being used.

[rdrowley]

I think with that in mind I would go with the Xonar DX and output an analog signal to your UMC-1 (so buy lots of 3.5mm stereo to L/R RCA cables ). There are several software video players that will decode those formats on the fly and you will get a great output to your system.

[Landspeeder]

I picked up an Asus D2X...
WOW
The analog sounds fantastic!
The SPDIF optical bypass sounds like bum still.

I can live with the AMAZING analog output however

Using RMAA on the SPDIF shows some nasty stuff, apparently in sync with my water pump.

Using RMAA on the analog out shows nada. :T

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[thatguyyoulove]

I don't want to discourage you as the D2X is a good card, but Asus has an even better card that is less than $300 that features audiophile grade capacitors, replaceable op-amps (and there are a few that make a very nice difference!), and slightly better DACS. It's the Asus Xonar ST (and H6 daughter card which gives you the additional 5.1 from the main 2.0, for 7.1 total). I just got one and it is pretty amazing, and still under your $300 quick budget.

[rdrowley]

I picked up an Asus D2X...
WOW
The analog sounds fantastic!
The SPDIF optical bypass sounds like bum still.

I can live with the AMAZING analog output however

Using RMAA on the SPDIF shows some nasty stuff, apparently in sync with my water pump.

Using RMAA on the analog out shows nada. :T

Thanks for all the help everyone!

I'm glad that it worked out for you! That always feels good to get it working well.

With the optical output, did you use an on-the-fly encoding of DTS or DD Live? I found with mine that the optical only sounded good if you did PCM output through the optical. I had to do PCM at 96kHz because my receiver didn't take 192kHz, but it sounded much better than any of the on-the-fly encoding options. I would give it a try and see how it compares to the analog outputs.