Mobo sound?

[rcchap]

Does anyone have experience with th on board sound that I see on mobo's. The Asus K8V has ADI AD1980 6 channel codec. The A8V has Realtek ALC850, 8-channel CODEC Audio Sensing and Enumeration Technology. The Gigabyte K8VNXP has 6 channel ALC 658 AC97 codec. What's the dif?
I will be running to a Rotel 1068 via SPDIF.

Chris

[Andrew Pratt]

They'll all do fine for DD and DTS since its just a regular digital pass though to the processor. The AC97 standard though isn't good enough for 2 channel as it resamples the audio to 48 (from 44) i believe which most people report degrades the sound quality.

Another thing to look out for is the soundstorm chip if its available on any mobo you're looking at as it encodes all material to DD which is great for watching TV or trailers though etc

[aud19]

That's pretty much only available on Asus' nVidia based boards isn't it Andrew?

I'm a stick with Asus guy anyhow as I believe they make some of the better/best quality boards out there. Some times a few less bells and whistles and sometime a few extra bucks, but higher quality components IMO.

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

no the soundstorm chip is available on a variety of boards not just ASUS

See Here for a complete listing...

[rcchap]

When you say regular digital pass through does that mean there is no converting (I don't really know the term here) but cd quality in cd quality out, same bit rate, etc.

Chris

[aud19]

That's where you need to be careful as, for example, Creative's current cards resample where as the M-audio Revolution card doesn't. Just make sure any cards you're looking at, that you do a search on the net to find out what exactly it is they do/don't do.

Jason

[ajpoe]

They'll all do fine for DD and DTS since its just a regular digital pass though to the processor. The AC97 standard though isn't good enough for 2 channel as it resamples the audio to 48 (from 44) i believe which most people report degrades the sound quality.

My mobo has optical out and uses AC97 so I guess I have this resampling issue? I have a Maddog Multimedia 7.1 card that has optical output as well. I can use it instead of the AC97 mobo option. Would it still resample 2 channel audio to 48? Also, what if you used the analog output for 2 channel from the mobo and just used the optical to pass through DD and DTS? Would that eliminate the resampling?

thanks,
ajpoe

[aud19]

DD and DTS are fine with or without AC97 as they just pass a digital signal through to an external processor. Any audio, (mobo's onboard audio or a seperate card ) if it's procesed in the PC using AC97 for analog ouput will be resampled. The only way around it is output all audio via a digital connection, so the PC's not doing any processing, or get a new mobo/soundcard.

Jason

[ajpoe]

The only way around it is output all audio via a digital connection, so the PC's not doing any processing

sorry, if i'm not catching on, i'm a little confused. the only connection i have between my puter and receiver is the optical out on the mobo. so based on what you're saying i am avoiding the resampling issue? i usually use winamp or zoom player for 2 channel music and put my receiver in pure audio mode.

[aud19]

As far as I know, yes. Perhaps someone can confirm...?

Jason

[rcchap]

Would there be a need to purchase a sound card if I buy the Asus K8V board which has ADI AD1980 6 channel codec on board with a digital output or any mobo with decent onboard sound. I am just looking to get audio from the pc to my 1068 unadulterated (CD's, MP3's, DD, DTS, etc). Would I even need 6 audio channels on the mobo.
It seems to me that the more expensive sound cards are only needed if you do not have an external dac or pre/pro to convert. Is this a valid assumption?

Thanks.

[aud19]

No there wouldn't but you won't get real good quality, just decent. Unless you use something like the DAC1 to upsample the signal but then you'll require a second digital output for DD/DTS.

Jason

[ajpoe]

No there wouldn't but you won't get real good quality, just decent. Unless you use something like the DAC1 to upsample the signal but then you'll require a second digital output for DD/DTS.

Jason, do you mean he won't get real good quality for music or for everything? I don't know much about DAC1 so I went reading and found that it is for upsampling 2 channel music. Will a passed through DD and DTS signal from a mobo be comparable to a DVD player?

[aud19]

Theoretically yes as the pre/pro is doing the decoding, not the PC.

EDIT: Yeah I was talking about music

Jason

[ajpoe]

So then, instead of spending a bunch of money on a high end CD player, I could get this DAC1 and upsample the digital out from my HTPC? Also, I know MP3 isn't high quality by any means, but would the DAC1 greatly improve the sound quality of those as well?

[aud19]

That's pretty much the idea. I don't know how much if anything it can do for MP3's but ya never know. But that's also pretty much what the Lynx card does too so you might be better off as you could have the upsampled analog output plus a digital out etc.

Jason

[ajpoe]

Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions but this is very interesting to me because I use my HTPC for everything. If I can get much better sound from the puter without having to get other separate components, that would be great! If I were to get the DAC1, I guess I could run the coaxial spdif from the puter to it and leave the optical spdif straight to the processor for DD and DTS decoding or vice versa. That being said, does it defeat the purpose to run the analog outs from the DAC1 to the processor which is hooked up to my 5 channel amp? I don't have the funds to have a separate 2 channel amp to run straight off the DAC1.

ajpoe

[aud19]

That's what you'd do Still, seriously look at the Lynx as it will likely offer the higher quality 2-channel analog like the DAC1 while also offering likely superior DD/DTS as well. Just carefully check out both options before making a choice.

Jason

[ajpoe]

hrmm... Jason you have me thinking too hard now :roll: . I did some reading on that Lynx Two sound card. I already have a descent HTPC setup. If I were to add that sound card at around $1000 or so it seems it would allow me to do a few things including (please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Have high quality 2 channel music without getting a stand alone CD player and DAC1.
2. Have high quality DVD sound without having to get a stand alone DVD player. I assume I can use multichannel output from the Lynx card straight to the amp and the DVD software will do the decoding of DD and DTS. My HTPC already upsamples to 720p (or 1080i but I prefer 720p).
3. I wouldn't need the 1068 so the money saved from that would let me get some Silver Kingcats to run from HTPC to 1075 and even better my sound.

Woud I be losing out on anything here? I'm not worried about PLIIx because I only have a 5.1 system. Also, the HTPC would allow for the easiest hardware and software upgrades in the future. The only other source I use is my Satellite receiver and I could keep my Onkyo for decoding Satellite since I'm not worried about having such high end sound for regular TV viewing. What do you think?

ajpoe

Edit: After reading some more and looking at another thread by you, I saw that you have the M-Audio 7.1 card. I have a Mad Dog Multimedia 7.1 card and it seems that they are very similar. I don't have signal to noise ratio specs and what not, but my chip says VIA ICEnsemble Envy24HT-S. The chip in the M-Audio says its the 1724 and talked about a 1712, mine says 1721. An article about the M-Audio says it uses good DACs that are AKM AK4355, I believe the comparable part on my card reads APA4800. Would I be better of using this card instead of my mobo optical out for the mean time? Also, do you run a stereo miniplug to dual RCA for your 2 channel music? The M-Audio software has a lot more to it with the crossover points, listening distances, etc. Here are the links where I got my info, except for what I got from looking at the card itself:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mul...ution71_3.html

http://www.mdmm.com/products/audio/8channel.asp

[rcchap]

Well guys, I think that my A/V adventures are coming to an end or at least slowing. Just found out that my wife is pregnant :B . I know that this post does not follow the thread but I just wanted to say thank you to you all and I hope to be back soon.

Later.
Chris

[aud19]

Well congrats rcchap :T

Ajpoe, you can use a PC as a pre/pro, my brother's doing it, you do give up a few things like currently there is no DPLII/DPLIIx, less inputs for connecting external sources etc but depending on your needs it is a viable option. It's really an individual decision that requires a LOT of homework and pondering.

Jason

[aud19]

Just found out last night that Power DVD has DPLII capabilities downloadable from their web page now. I would imagine IIx won't be too far behind. (I wonder how long ago they upgraded that...? That's the other problem with HTPC's, keeping up to date on everything that's possible! ops: :lol: )

Jason

[ajpoe]

My Maddog 7.1 that is very similar to your m-audio 7.1 has an optical input. The only source I run to my reciever other than my HTPC is my satellite receiver which has optical out only for digital. I wonder if there is software to decode the satellite audio so I could send it directly to my amp. If that existed then i could just run miniplug to rca cables from each channel out on my soundcard to my amp and skip on the processor. The savings from not getting the 1068 would allow me to get the lynx two sound card (which offers even more options) with its good DACs, a nice looking ahanix case, and continue to use my HTPC for DVDs, CDs, etc. while still being able to decode my satellite signal and not have to use my Onkyo or a 1068 separately for that. If you don't know, may be your brother could offer some feedback on that?

ajpoe

Edit: Nevermind, I think these threads have answered all my questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=389137&highlight=htpc+prepro

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=235923&highlight=htpc+prepro

[aud19]

I'm sure it's possible though I don't personally know what software you'd use. Unfortunately my brother does this for a living, so you could ask him but he'd want to charge ya :lol:

Jason

[aud19]

That second thread reminds me of a couple other pitfalls of a HTPC pre/pro vs a HTPC as a source.

The spouse. They tend to have difficulty with even relatively easy to use receivers / pre/pros. A more complicated HTPC is going to either piss them off or frighten from even using, hence enjoying the system, hence making your life easier :lol:

DVD-A/SACD if you have any plans to include these in your system you pretty much will require a pre/pro of some sort.

If neither of these is a big concern for you, I say go for it :T

Jason

[ajpoe]

I am still single and it's already to the point where no one knows how to my stuff anyway. I kind of like it that way because then 'visitors' don't mess with anything. The only real concern (which is a big concern) I have after reading those forums is the sync issues between the audio and video. But, it looks as though the Audigy Platinum Pro Z2S will decode my DVDs and external satellite and I can keep my current Maddog 7.1 for music or get something better and skip on the pre/pro. However, the whole point in going with the 1068 over my Onkyo is the quality of sound and I don't know that I would be getting any improvement in that category as well.

When it comes down to it, I think I might be better of leaving my computer as a source and getting the 1068 to decode the DD and DTS pass through from the HTPC optical out and throw a Benchmark DAC1 on the coax digital out for 2 channel music. It's the most expensive way to get what I want, but I think it will also yield the best sounding system for both movies and music.

Thank you for all the info you have provided, I have learned a lot in the last couple days!

ajpoe

[aud19]

Wait till Creative releases it's new line this fall'ish before buying anything from them... Hoping it will be a jump in performance AND offer bit-perfect output which currently they do not.

...and your welcome ops: :B

Jason

[ajpoe]

I've been doing a lot of reading about this new Zenith DVD player, the 318, and have decided to get it since it's only $200. I use my HTPC for recording TV shows and have found a couple times when I really wanted to record something from satellite and watch a DVD at the same time. Unfortunately, you don't get very good results when doing both. Since the Zenith is getting so much praise (even against really nice HTPCs) and it does the upsampling to 1080i, I'm going to use it for DVD playback. I'll keep the HTPC for recording TV and turn it into a music server. I've read a lot about lossless compression options to store my CDs. I think the external Benchmark DAC1 on my existing optical out soundcard would be the best route to go because it will give me more flexibility than getting the Lynx Two. If I ever wanted to throw the DAC1 on a separate CD or DVD player, I would be able to whereas I wouldn't if I got the Lynx Two.

ajpoe

[aud19]

Sounds good but I'd wait for the new Denon players coming out this Sept. that will have upsampling as well.

New Denon Players

Jason

[ajpoe]

Yeah, but I'm concerned that they may remove the ability to play macrovision disks at 1080i. Someone already had said that Zenith is planning on making some changes to the 318 and not necessarily for the better... it might have even been you? Besides, the 318 was still only $200. May be I'll check out the Denon's when they come out and put the Zenith in a 2nd room if they are that much better.

ajpoe